Cut off checked ends before sealing?

[Damon McLaughlin]

I just got three 6" round cherry logs, each about 15" long. The ends are checked, I don't know how deep it runs or how old the rounds are. They're heavy and still look wet. Should I cut off the checked ends until I get to solid wood before sealing, or should I just seal the ends as they are? Thanks.

[John Keeton]

I think you will have better luck sealing a fresh cut, but a cherry log with the pith is going to have a strong tendency to crack. I hope it remains stable for you. Do you intend to turn it green at some point?

[Damon McLaughlin]

I may try to find some time to turn them green this weekend so I may not do any sealing until then. My other thought was to cut them down the center lengthwise and then seal them, or cut them into blanks (bowl and spindle) before sealing. Just trying to figure the best way to preserve the wood in case I can't rough turn them while they are green. Aside from the three small cherry logs I have two birch logs that are about the same size and condition. I may not have time to turn all of them into rough blanks.

[Al Launier]

Have you considered the ratio of heartwood to sapwood in the 6" logs? If you intend to favor the heartwood over the sapwood in your finished product, you might be surprised to see how much sapwood there is in a 6". If you are looking for both, then this may not be a concern. I think John's suggestion is worth noting as the sealant may work better, plus you'll be able to get a good idea about the amount of heartwood vs. sapwood.

[Sid Matheny]

I would cut the ends and then seal them. After they dry you could turn them down to make something like pepper mills where you would drill out most of the pith. Good luck.

[Damon McLaughlin]

I don't necessarily intend to favor one over the other but will work with what is there. I'll cut the ends off and seal them when I get home from my appointments. Is there any harm cutting the logs into blanks before sealing or would I be better off just cutting the ends off and sealing the log as a whole until I'm ready to turn? I normally just have dry wood to work with so having green wood is relatively new to me (I've had some in the past that I didn't treat very nicely and was only able to get just a little bit of good wood out of it, trying to be more proactive this time around). Thanks again.

[Damon McLaughlin]

I would cut the ends and then seal them. After they dry you could turn them down to make something like pepper mills where you would drill out most of the pith. Good luck.


Sound good, thank you Sid. Now that I think about it, with three logs I might just try three different approaches including cutting the ends and sealing on one log, cutting down the center and sealing on another and then cutting small spindle blanks out of the third. Then when I'll know what works best for me the next time I get some more green wood.

[Michael Mills]

I'm a long way from Spokane and our climates are probably pretty different.
It may not be your best bet but for me I would trim the ends, then split to remove the pith. John K. mentioned the tendency for cherry to crack if the pith remains and that has been my experience also. The width of your chain saw should be enough to remove the pith if you make an accurate cut.

[Bob Bouis]

If you're going to use them this weekend there's no reason to cut the ends off now.

Small logs don't make good bowl blanks. They're not stable as they're basically a half log, and those will crack in the center at 90 degrees to your cut. You'll probably lose half of them to splitting when drying.

You need to rough or finish turn them instead. For logs that small you might consider finish turning them green and including the pith, as long as it's in the walls of the bowl and not the base. Use superglue to stabilize the pith. Watch out for ring shake, too.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I would rough turn the wood as soon as I could, in the meantime pack them in a plastic bag, should keep things OK for a week or two.

When turning, first cut the pith out, and when done, place the rough turned pieces in a brown paper bag, set aside in a cool place to let them dry and stabilize.

[Damon McLaughlin]

I'm finally home after a long day at the VA. I cut the ends off a few of the logs and the pictures are below. I really like the spalting in some of these logs and because I have no experience how to deal with these if I get some cutting advice based on what you see in the photos I would appreciate it. The moisture content ranges from 24 to 31% depending on the log. The rather two large ones by my boots, anyone have any idea what those are? I see some checking at the end of each log but would really like to take advantage of maximizing the wood. My only experience with green wood has been with pine and I've never been careful with those as pine is a dime a dozen here.

Is there wood here where I can do some small bowls and hollow forms? I would like to get some spindle blanks for tops and other small things as well if possible. Or, based on the moisture content, am I better just sealing them as they are and waiting until the moisture content drops before doing any processing? I can do some green turning this weekend but I won't be able to turn all of this in a weeks time. Thanks again for all your input.

David

I do not know what type of wood this is. The next photo shows it with the end cut off and it measures about 11" in diameter, the third is a smaller log from the same tree (I think)
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Here are the cherry logs, with some of the splitting what is the best way to process these (I think these are cherry as that is what I was told)
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(I tried to delete the attachments below but couldn't figure out how, sorry for the redundancy)

[Damon McLaughlin]

I don't know what these are. Side profile shows the bark, I know the top doesn't show the grain well but I didn't know how to cut into these yet. They're big, hopefully I can get a couple bowl blanks.

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[John K Jordan]

...Is there any harm cutting the logs into blanks before sealing or would I be better off just cutting the ends off and sealing the log as a whole until I'm ready to turn?

Hey Dave.

If I have a log section I can't work on right away I always seal the ends as soon as possible. Then when I get to the bandsaw I cut it (usually) down the middle. At this point I usually cut the checks off the ends of one half both to remove any checks and to give a good surface to better see the wood to decide what sizes of blanks to make. I will reseal the ends then only if I won't be cutting it up further right away.

If I'm cutting it up right then, I wait until I've cut the blanks from that half and seal the ends. However, if the log is larger and I'm making large blanks, then I often seal immediately after cutting each large blank.

I've had mixed results with cherry. (it's all black cherry, wild cherry here) If making turning squares up to 3" they hardly ever crack on the ends here (it's fairly humid here much of the year, maybe that helps). But keep in mind individual cherry trees can be more stable than others. Some will start to check while you watch, others not at all. Just yesterday I looked again at a round from "the king of stable cherry trees" that has refused to crack even after years out in the sun and rain. The whole tree was like that - I cut a bunch of big squares and bowl blanks from it and none of them got a crack or check. I should cut up that remaining chunk some day and see what it's like inside.

BTW, for species that shrink a lot I've also learned to seal the sides of the blanks that are the closest to tangent to the rings. Since the most shrinkage is along the rings that's where it may crack first. Walnut, cedar, soft maple, I don't bother. Sugar maple, holly, dogwood: I always seal these sides, especially if cut as the second picture:

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For species that have a lot of sapwood and the sapwood is known to shrink a lot more than the heart wood, I also like to seal any sides that expose both the heart and sapwood. Dogwood is the worst I've found for cracking at the transition. I've had far more luck sealing here:

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In this case I will usually seal three sides, sometimes even four. This makes it take longer to dry but the success rate is higher.

JKJ

[Damon McLaughlin]

Thanks John J.! Looks like I'll be busy for a few days so the tool handle is going to be put back on the shelf. It'll get done eventually, unless I get a hold of some more wood.

[John K Jordan]

Or, based on the moisture content, am I better just sealing them as they are and waiting until the moisture content drops before doing any processing?

(I tried to delete the attachments below but couldn't figure out how, sorry for the redundancy)

The moisture content on a round log section will not drop in a reasonable time and if it does it will be near the ends and likely create a lot of cracking. If I wanted turning squares, I would cut them out immediately. If I wanted to turn green bowls or hollow forms I would do it as soon as possible. If you want to turn green but can't for a while, a couple of ways to keep the wood from degrading are put the chunks under water or put them in a freezer. You don't have this luxury, but the other John Jordan who ONLY turns green wood said he has learned to always cut 6" off the end of a log then cut his blank. If you get some long logs sometime and you might try this method.

That is beautiful wood. I always agonize about how to "best" cut up something like that - big blanks for boxes, for thin spindles, for bowls? Watch out for that area in the third photo that might be from bark damage or ring shake, can't tell from the picture. The way to test for integrity is to cut off a very thin slice then bend it and see if it easily breaks. That's also the way to test for invisible end cracks that extend deep into wood. Just cutting off the visible checks may not get down to solid wood. When I process log sections with visible end cracks I always test the end of each blank before sealing. If the thin slice breaks at a crack I continue removing slices until I hit solid wood. If I decide to keep a check in the blank for some reason, say to give me a little extra length on one end for chucking or if I think it might be turned away, I mark it with a red sharpie before sealing - that way I won't miss it later and be unpleasantly surprised when turning!

To delete attachments, go to Advanced, scroll down to Manage Attachments, at the bottom of the dialog click the "X" in each thumbnail of those you want to delete. At least that's how I do it, may be other ways.

JKJ

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I'm finally home after a long day at the VA. I cut the ends off a few of the logs and the pictures are below. I really like the spalting in some of these logs and because I have no experience how to deal with these if I get some cutting advice based on what you see in the photos I would appreciate it. The moisture content ranges from 24 to 31% depending on the log. The rather two large ones by my boots, anyone have any idea what those are? I see some checking at the end of each log but would really like to take advantage of maximizing the wood. My only experience with green wood has been with pine and I've never been careful with those as pine is a dime a dozen here.

Is there wood here where I can do some small bowls and hollow forms? I would like to get some spindle blanks for tops and other small things as well if possible. Or, based on the moisture content, am I better just sealing them as they are and waiting until the moisture content drops before doing any processing? I can do some green turning this weekend but I won't be able to turn all of this in a weeks time. Thanks again for all your input.

David

I do not know what type of wood this is. The next photo shows it with the end cut off and it measures about 11" in diameter, the third is a smaller log from the same tree (I think)
353137 353138 353142

Here are the cherry logs, with some of the splitting what is the best way to process these (I think these are cherry as that is what I was told)
353140


(I tried to delete the attachments below but couldn't figure out how, sorry for the redundancy)

The larger pieces in the last 2 pic’s are Birch, with the high moisture contend in them they are continueing to rot, and will get to soft to turn.

Here’s a picture in how I would cut this log, the left side would be used for a bowl and the righthand piece with another pith in it you could cut up for spindle blanks.
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Just look at the other pieces and see what it shows, cut out wat’s going to cause problems, and cut then into useful pieces.

Just don’t wait or all you get is rotten wood that’s no good for anything.

[Damon McLaughlin]

Thank you Leo for the cutting advice. Because I don't want it to rot should I still seal the ends and maybe wrap it around the side an inch or so? Or with its 30% moisture content and it being only 20 degrees here should I consider leaving it unsealed?

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Thank you Leo for the cutting advice. Because I don't want it to rot should I still seal the ends and maybe wrap it around the side an inch or so? Or with its 30% moisture content and it being only 20 degrees here should I consider leaving it unsealed?

You want the wood to dry but not too fast, in freezing temperatures it is still drying, you could leave it unwrapped if you have it sit out of the wind or draft (I assume you are talking Fahrenheit, not 20 Celsius)

The moisture has to go below 20% to stop rotting, and I’m afraid you do not have the time to get this with the logs as is.

If you can rough turn them you don’t have the mass of wood and more surface area to have it dry, but still have to control the rate of drying, sealing the logs now is the really the last thing you want to do, stopping it for a few days or a week is not good, but neither is the farther splitting of the wood, that’s why I said stick it in a plastic bag, but if the temps are as you say than you don’t have to do that, just get it cut up and turn the large pieces.

[Damon McLaughlin]

Well, I have good news, but first let me thank all of you for your suggestions, I couldn't have done this without your help. I processed 1/3 of the logs tonight, it was fun, messy and a lot of work. I'm pleased to say that the moisture content wasn't as high as I had first reported. After trimming away on the ends where it was sopping wet the moisture as I got to good wood was only 14 to 16%. The wood came from two brothers I had met at the VA Medical Center last fall. We were in the waiting room and started talking and they said they had tons of wood. Today at my appointment I ran into the two brothers and they had wood in the back of their truck for me. So three of the smaller logs is bing cherry, the rest is birch.

I processed one cherry log of which I have two small bowl blanks (probably will be for loose change), and some nice spindle blanks. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the cherry was lightly spalted. Then I processed one of the really large and heavy pieces of birch along with a smaller birch log. I did take pictures of all the blanks before I sealed them. It wasn't until I was almost finished for the night that I realized I forgot to put the memory card into the camera. So I only have a few pictuers which show two 6x6 and two 8x8 bowl blanks of the birch. Once the wax dries if anyone is interested in seeing the rest of the birch or cherry I'll be happy to take more photos.

So tonight I out of three logs I ended up with quite a bit of cherry spindle blanks ranging from 1x1x10 to 2x2x10 as well as some that were close to 3x3x4. From the birch I have blanks from 8x8, 6x6, 4x4 and spindle blanks from 1x1 to 4x4. I the highest moisture content was 17% so hopefully the rotting wont' continue. Before sealing the blanks I wrote the moisture content and weight with a sharpie. I'm really amazed at how much wood I was able to get. I'm even more amazed at how messy my small shop is! Its never been this messy. Oh, I did turn one bowl blank but because I don't know yet what I want to turn I'm keeping the rest as unturned blanks. I have a lot of pen blanks that I don't need as I don't have equipment to turn pens so I'm not sure what to do with them, I might see about donating them to the woodworking shop on the Air Force base just down the road.

I'm not going to be able to process the remaining logs as I'm out of Anchorseal and with the snow storm we're having it won't be until some time next week that I can get to the store to get more. So I think I'll follow Leo's advice and store the logs in large plastic bags and put them outside out of the wind for the next week.

Thank you again for your suggestions on how to process these. Once I got into it it really wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. When two of the large bowl blanks dries I'm going to make really nice thank you gift for each of the brothers, then I'm going to offer to help clean up their property of more wood!

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[John K Jordan]

Oh boy, you're in the wood now!! The moisture sounds close to air dry - about 12-15% around here - there are on-line charts for much of the country. I think wood likes at least 20% moisture and warm temperatures to deteriorate by fungus.

The problem you might have now is the opposite of not enough wood - too much wood! Many people find good wood sources and get so excited they take far more wood at once than they can process or use. Much of it ends up as a driveway full of cracked firewood.

The wise Stephen Russell said he finally learned to take no more wood than he could turn in a couple of weeks. For those of us who like to turn dry wood, I would expand this to say I don't take more wood than I can process into turning blanks within a couple of weeks, plus some to set out to spalt. In a few years, you'll be like me - more wood than you can possibly turn, looking for people to give it to, able to trade with people in other parts of the country for their local wood. Good clean fun!

A local woodturning club or other organizations may love to have pen blank sizes for their pens for the troups.
http://freedompens.org/
https://www.woodcraft.com/pages/turn-for-troops
http://turnonchicago.com/Pens-for-Troops.html
etc...

I don't know anything about and have never tried bing cherry. All ours is black/wild cherry.

JKJ

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Well, I have good news, but first let me thank all of you for your suggestions, I couldn't have done this without your help. I processed 1/3 of the logs tonight, it was fun, messy and a lot of work. I'm pleased to say that the moisture content wasn't as high as I had first reported. After trimming away on the ends where it was sopping wet the moisture as I got to good wood was only 14 to 16%. The wood came from two brothers I had met at the VA Medical Center last fall. We were in the waiting room and started talking and they said they had tons of wood. Today at my appointment I ran into the two brothers and they had wood in the back of their truck for me. So three of the smaller logs is bing cherry, the rest is birch.

I processed one cherry log of which I have two small bowl blanks (probably will be for loose change), and some nice spindle blanks. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the cherry was lightly spalted. Then I processed one of the really large and heavy pieces of birch along with a smaller birch log. I did take pictures of all the blanks before I sealed them. It wasn't until I was almost finished for the night that I realized I forgot to put the memory card into the camera. So I only have a few pictuers which show two 6x6 and two 8x8 bowl blanks of the birch. Once the wax dries if anyone is interested in seeing the rest of the birch or cherry I'll be happy to take more photos.

So tonight I out of three logs I ended up with quite a bit of cherry spindle blanks ranging from 1x1x10 to 2x2x10 as well as some that were close to 3x3x4. From the birch I have blanks from 8x8, 6x6, 4x4 and spindle blanks from 1x1 to 4x4. I the highest moisture content was 17% so hopefully the rotting wont' continue. Before sealing the blanks I wrote the moisture content and weight with a sharpie. I'm really amazed at how much wood I was able to get. I'm even more amazed at how messy my small shop is! Its never been this messy. Oh, I did turn one bowl blank but because I don't know yet what I want to turn I'm keeping the rest as unturned blanks. I have a lot of pen blanks that I don't need as I don't have equipment to turn pens so I'm not sure what to do with them, I might see about donating them to the woodworking shop on the Air Force base just down the road.

I'm not going to be able to process the remaining logs as I'm out of Anchorseal and with the snow storm we're having it won't be until some time next week that I can get to the store to get more. So I think I'll follow Leo's advice and store the logs in large plastic bags and put them outside out of the wind for the next week.

Thank you again for your suggestions on how to process these. Once I got into it it really wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. When two of the large bowl blanks dries I'm going to make really nice thank you gift for each of the brothers, then I'm going to offer to help clean up their property of more wood!

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Lucky you David that your wood is already that low in moisture, still do seal the endgrain on those blanks if you want to let them dry, however I’ll put my thoughts here, if you want to make gifts for the brothers, I would rough turn them now, that way you’d have dry pieces to return in half a year or so, rather than a year or two before you can even think of turning these solid pieces of wood.

Waiting to let the solid blanks dry first will take much longer than if you rough turned them now, and even then you’d still have wood that will warp after you have turned it, just the way wood reacts to changing the stresses in the wood.

[Damon McLaughlin]

If I do some rough turning, say a bowl or platter, then set it aside to dry do I still need to seal them? And if so do I seal the whole rough turning or just where the end grains are? My plan is to process all the logs this week and cut solid blanks and seal them. Then once all the logs are done I have a couple of turnings that I want to do but will try to rough turn some of these here and there when I can.

[John K Jordan]

If I do some rough turning, say a bowl or platter, then set it aside to dry do I still need to seal them? And if so do I seal the whole rough turning or just where the end grains are?

Dave, It seems like everyone has their own method they swear by: seal just the end grain, seal the outside or the entire bowl, wrap the outside in plastic, put in paper bags, bury in a pile of shavings, just set out on the shelf, put directly into a home-made kiln. What may work well may depend on the type of wood, the thickness, the humidity, and just plain luck.

I personally seal at least the end grain on walnut and cherry, sometimes the entire outside or entire bowl depending on how I feel at the time and how much AnchorSeal I have on hand. I don't do a lot of green bowls but for those I've roughed, even large, I have not once had one crack. Just good luck, or clean living? Ha! :)

Note that if you start using a lot of AnchorSeal you can get it in 5-gal buckets directly from UC Coatings. I once bought a 55-gal drum full and even with shipping it was 1/3 the cost of retail by the gallon. Some clubs buy in quantity for their members.

JKJ

[John Keeton]

As JKJ noted, everyone has their own method. I have had great success sealing only the outside and around the rim with Anchorseal.

[Damon McLaughlin]

Thank you John. My quart of Anchorseal ran out on Saturday so I bought a gallon yesterday. Not cheap, but at least it goes a long way. If I need more I'll look into the five gallon bucket. I did do two rough turnings yesterday and sealed only the end grain on one and the entire turning on the second, just to compare the two over time. I think my issue with rough turning green wood is that I don't know what I want the blank to be yet. Maybe that will come to me easier in time. We got about eight inches of snow in the past three days so I've been busy snowblowing. Today its back to finishing up the remaining three or four logs.

[Damon McLaughlin]

Thank you John. I'll try that method too.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

If I do some rough turning, say a bowl or platter, then set it aside to dry do I still need to seal them? And if so do I seal the whole rough turning or just where the end grains are? My plan is to process all the logs this week and cut solid blanks and seal them. Then once all the logs are done I have a couple of turnings that I want to do but will try to rough turn some of these here and there when I can.

David, I have for many years already been drying in brown paper bags, as I said before, I tried the sealing and other manners of drying, but have the best results with placing a rough out in a brown paper bag.

This should work for most people that live in a house and have a cool place to set the bags to let it all dry, peoples places have mostly similar environments.

It is a very simple way of drying the bowls, nothing fancy needed for it, and it works by just doing that, [Place the rough piece in a brown paper bag and set at a cool place without draft] and that’s all that is needed.

I do check the bags the first couple of weeks to make sure there is no mildew starting to grow, if that happens I wipe the bowl down and place it in a dry bag.

Here’s another one of my pictures of dried bowls, these were just taken out of the bags you can see, the bowls are dry and are than left to dry some more before being stored to be returned eventually :)

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