First table saw: new or used - questions about safety

[Alex Mielko]

I am pretty new to woodworking. So far, I have built a workbench and couple of reach-in closet built-ins. Both which turned out pretty nice for a first time project. My next project is a big walk-in closet for which I think a table saw would be beneficial. With a limited budget I am looking for an used TS on Craigslist. There, I can get old Craftsman or Ridgid for about $125-150. I am fine with restoration, surface rust removal, painting, etc as long as it doesn't double the saw's price. All would be good except that I am worrying about lack of safety features in older table saws. There is usually no riving knife, blade guard, etc. I am not sure how often kickback occurs but wearing football helmet and bulletproof vest for every cut is not really an option. :) Another option would be new Dewalt DWE7480 from Home Depot which I believe comes with all the safety features missing on older saws. At $379, I would definitely be stretching my budget but hey, safety is worth it.

So given all that, what would you do if you were in my place? I understand that more solid older table saw is better than the portable Dewalt, but then there are the safety features that older saws are missing. Besides the built-in closet and maybe patio table and bench, I do not see more uses for the table saw so spending hundreds of dollars doesn't make much sense. I am just tired of using my DIY track jig for circular saw. It looks like I am wasting too much time measuring, clamping and cutting.

[David Kumm]

There will be a lot of discussion about riving knives but my take is that with a limited budget, an old Delta contractor saw ( the 9" was a nice unit )or even cabinet saw, set up correctly, and with a fence that keeps it's settings is more safe than a low end new saw with the riving knife. you can make a splitter or buy an MJ splitter to deal with the kickback. A cheap saw with a fence that doesn't set squarely over and over is way more dangerous so be careful with low end machines ( new or used ). You are spinning a blade right in front of you so a stout arbor assembly and good fence are important. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Alex, you can add a splitter and guard to your saw, there's no reason not to have basic safety features on your saw.

Do you have dust collection? For a tablesaw you'll need above and below the blade collection, something you can do with a new guard.............Regards, Rod.

[Chris Hachet]

The largest problem with the older Craftsman saws is the fence, which IMHO is junk. Keeping the fence at a true parallel to the blade is more important than almost anything else in terms of kick backs or getting a hand sucked in when you try to force a piece through.

I would honestly not try to rip a 2 x 4 with a stock unmodified craftsman contractors saw. Too much potential for kickback IMHO.

I had for ten years a craftsman with an Incra fence system and a router in the extension wing with a router lift, it worked rather well until the saw itself became completely worn out.

For what it is worth, if it were me I would buy a track saw and do everything I could possibly do with it before I would drop a dime on anything other than a fairly decent table saw. If you don't want to buy a Festool for $660 which would be beyond your budget, look at a used or reconditioned Dewalt or Makita, both of which can be had pretty reasonably.

I really do not even like the Saw stop contractors table saw....and its $1500 or so IIRC...

If you stay with woodworking, and decide you want a decent table saw later, I would budget a good bit more than you are talking about. My neighbor just bought a contractors saw from a big box store and spent about $600, not sure what brand it is, but it is crapola in terms of holding an adjustment and working properly.

So if you do follow your original thinking and get a Craftsman contractors saw, do something to replace the fence. With that done, it can perform acceptably. Methinks the table is 27 inches with the craftsman contractors saw, which is about the same as the older Powermatic and Delta saws, so a used fence might be available affordably.

Good luck with whatever you decide. You might also want to learn to cut with a hand saw at some point-minimal dust, minimal noise, rather safe, no extension cord to trip over, and you are building a skill set that will allow you to hand cut dovetails and other joints.

And sorry if this sounds discouraging, but there is not much available in affordable table saws IMHO at the moment.

[Chris Hachet]

Also, blade quality is key to getting a cheap table saw to work well. Thin Kerf blades do wonders with low horsepower saws.

In terms of safety, I find keeping the floor around the saw and the work surface of the saw really clean a huge help. Feather Boards will help also, especially in terms of keeping the stock in line and flat while you are feeding it into the saw.

Also, Table saws generate a huge amount of dust, fabricating some sort of simple dust collection system, will make things much easier and keep your lungs clear. A cyclone (the cheaper under $100 kind) between the saw and your shop vac can save your filter and make your work orders of magnitude more efficient.

[Chris Hachet]

Hi Alex, you can add a splitter and guard to your saw, there's no reason not to have basic safety features on your saw.

Do you have dust collection? For a tablesaw you'll need above and below the blade collection, something you can do with a new guard.............Regards, Rod.


I second this strongly!

[Wayne Lomman]

Alex, anyone who recommends a table saw with no riving knife is sending you to hospital sooner or later. I apologise but in this regard, US safety laws are woefully lacking. If you have a riving knife and guard, you are not going to wear any timber. If this puts one out of reach, stick to the track saw until you can afford a safe one. Cheers

[Jerome Sidley]

I have the Dewalt and i would buy another one it is a good robust saw with a very good fence and has the safety features you need.

[scott spencer]

Alex, anyone who recommends a table saw with no riving knife is sending you to hospital sooner or later. I apologise but in this regard, US safety laws are woefully lacking. If you have a riving knife and guard, you are not going to wear any timber. If this puts one out of reach, stick to the track saw until you can afford a safe one. Cheers

That's an oversimplification that I don't agree with totally. A riving knife is a good feature, but there are many other aspects of safety, and a splitter is a very reasonable substitute for a true riving knife. There are good and bad examples of both riving knives and splitters. A lot of people think of saws in terms of blade size, rip capacity, "safety features", and horsepower, but not things like table size, mass, upgradeability, feasibility to repair, accuracy, and actual use of the saw. Here's some food for thought...putting safety "features" aside for the moment, due to the lack of operating room in front of the blade and the lack of overall mass, a small portable jobsite saw is inherently less safe than a full size saw. It's not likely that you'll ever be able to add a true riving knife to an older Craftsman or Ridgid full size contractor saw, but you can add a good splitter, which essentially does the same job, and will be gaining a saw with better basic bones, more stability, and much more growth potential. A larger contractor saw not only has a significantly larger landing zone in front of the blade (which is the space you have available to stabilize the work piece and get it flush to the table and fence before it reaches the blade), but also has a much quieter motor with more torque, standard miter slots, and can easily accept aftermarket fences, better wing extensions, router tables, and miter gauges. Motor replacement is also much simpler and economical if necessary. An aftermarket riving knife called the B.OR-K does exist for some older saws, but not the Emerson design on the Ridgid/Cman contractor saws.

A portable saw can weigh as little as 50#, is made from plastic, aluminum, pot metal, and other composites that all flex pretty easily, and is often no more than 17" or 18" deep. A full size contractor saw can weigh 250-300#, is made of steel and cast iron, and is 27" deep with upwards of 3x the operating space in front of the blade. A mobile base can be added for easy mobility around the shop. If you need to move the saw from site to site, the features of a smaller saw are an advantage....if not, they're a liability compared to a stationary saw for home shop use.

Which saw do think is easier to safely position the workpiece on before contact with the blade?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Saws/dewalt-saw-operators-view-1_zpsxhdmo6zt.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Saws/Craftsman_Tablesaw_21833_Top_2_zpsenvmjeoa.jpg

[Darcy Warner]

Alex, anyone who recommends a table saw with no riving knife is sending you to hospital sooner or later. I apologise but in this regard, US safety laws are woefully lacking. If you have a riving knife and guard, you are not going to wear any timber. If this puts one out of reach, stick to the track saw until you can afford a safe one. Cheers

Yeah, sure thing.

[Alex Mielko]

Thank you guys for all the very informative replies. After your input, I am leaning toward a saw with some of the safety features. Problem is that most used saws either lack those features or parts are missing. This leaves me with the new Dewalt saw which I understand has small work area and it is not so safe anyway. I still have some time before I tackle my next project (built-in closet) so I will be on a lookout for an used saw which is a bit newer than Craftsman's from the 60s. Maybe I am going to luck out and get one with splitter and blade guard.

[Chris Hachet]

You might consider saving some more money and buying a decent entry level saw that has those features. The Grizley 0715 is about $800...I think you will find yourself unhappy with a lesser saw.

There is not much under $500 in used table saws.

[Alex Mielko]

You might consider saving some more money and buying a decent entry level saw that has those features. The Grizley 0715 is about $800...I think you will find yourself unhappy with a lesser saw.

There is not much under $500 in used table saws.
While at some point I may be able to afford $800 saw, there is no way I am going to be able to fit one in my garage as I only have a single car garage. It is a bit longer than standard garages so I can fit workbench and saw against the back wall but all has to be movable so I can pull it away from the wall when working. So unfortunately cabinet saw is out of question. Thanks for the input though. Much appreciated.

[Chris Hachet]

While at some point I may be able to afford $800 saw, there is no way I am going to be able to fit one in my garage as I only have a single car garage. It is a bit longer than standard garages so I can fit workbench and saw against the back wall but all has to be movable so I can pull it away from the wall when working. So unfortunately cabinet saw is out of question. Thanks for the input though. Much appreciated.


A cabinet saw with a mobile base would be easily moveable.

...and so sorry if I came across snide or condescending in any way with my posts/suggestions. I feel your pain....I worked from about 1990 until last Month with the Craftsman Contractors style saw (with upgraded fence as I discussed above). Bought a used Delta Unsiaw from 1973 that I am restoring so I can have a decent saw in my shop. There are really very few good answers of any sort that I know about without spending a good chunk of change.

Best of luck and let us know what you come up with!

[Tony Pisano]

After reading your post and all the replies, then going back and re-reding your post, here is what I noticed:
You have done a few small projects with good success.
You want to tackle a bigger project, a walk in closet.
You don't think you will have much use for a table saw in the future.
With all of that in mind, I'm not sure a table saw is what you need at this time. We all always want more tools, but I don't think a table saw, especially a portable one would be that helpful for the project you atr planning to do. The table and fence to blade space would be too small for most plywood cutting. What else would you be using it for on this project? Do you have a chopsaw? I would do this job with what you have, bask in the glory, then decide where you want to go from there. I see lots of ads for tools and other stuff that say used once then sat in the corner for years. My son and I built a full size pull down murphy bed with not much more than a makita hand held circular saw with a quality blade, straight edge, square, and palm sander.

[Chris Hachet]

After reading your post and all the replies, then going back and re-reding your post, here is what I noticed:
You have done a few small projects with good success.
You want to tackle a bigger project, a walk in closet.
You don't think you will have much use for a table saw in the future.
With all of that in mind, I'm not sure a table saw is what you need at this time. We all always want more tools, but I don't think a table saw, especially a portable one would be that helpful for the project you atr planning to do. The table and fence to blade space would be too small for most plywood cutting. What else would you be using it for on this project? Do you have a chopsaw? I would do this job with what you have, bask in the glory, then decide where you want to go from there. I see lots of ads for tools and other stuff that say used once then sat in the corner for years. My son and I built a full size pull down murphy bed with not much more than a makita hand held circular saw with a quality blade, straight edge, square, and palm sander.Hence my suggestion for a track saw. Europeans are much more space challenged than we yanks, and they adore track saws. The best part of that approach is that you are not sinking capital into a second rate tool by buying a crappy table saw that will not be up to the tasks of more furniture/heavy carpentry/fine woodworking when it is called upon to do so.

A circular saw for rough cutting everything darned close and then a few quality used or affordable good quality new hand tools will get a whole lot done also. The $350-400 you could sink into a third or forth rate table saw could buy a few first rate hand tools...a decent front vise on the bench and you would be off to the races...

[Nick Decker]

I had the Dewalt saw and sold it, a lot because of the table size. Compared to a cabinet saw (which I still lust for but don't have room for) it had other limitations, but man, that table is scary small.

[Alex Mielko]

Thanks again for the replies. You guys are right. I am not going to jump into woodworking as a hobby or source of income. I am just looking at having a table saw (or more tools) as a time saver and convenience. I have built a jig for my circular saw but it looks like I am spending way more time thank I want measuring, clamping and supporting pieces to be cut. Yes, in the future a built-in closet is one project that I know I will dive into but if I have enough tools, I may tackle other projects down the road. We just bought a house and there are plenty of projects I can think of (mud room furniture, patio table and benches, small storage shed, etc). Plus my knees are not up to the task for crawling on the floor cutting sheets of plywood.

So lets forget for a moment about my limited budget, crappy used saws, small new Dewalts, etc. What would be decent entry level table saw (new or used) that would be good for occasional projects? Would $500-600 get me anything worth buying? Some of the track saws are in this price range and I still think table saw is more convenient. Unless I am totally wrong. Remember, I am a beginner in woodworking.

[Chris Hachet]

Thanks again for the replies. You guys are right. I am not going to jump into woodworking as a hobby or source of income. I am just looking at having a table saw (or more tools) as a time saver and convenience. I have built a jig for my circular saw but it looks like I am spending way more time thank I want measuring, clamping and supporting pieces to be cut. Yes, in the future a built-in closet is one project that I know I will dive into but if I have enough tools, I may tackle other projects down the road. We just bought a house and there are plenty of projects I can think of (mud room furniture, patio table and benches, small storage shed, etc). Plus my knees are not up to the task for crawling on the floor cutting sheets of plywood.

So lets forget for a moment about my limited budget, crappy used saws, small new Dewalts, etc. What would be decent entry level table saw (new or used) that would be good for occasional projects? Would $500-600 get me anything worth buying? Some of the track saws are in this price range and I still think table saw is more convenient. Unless I am totally wrong. Remember, I am a beginner in woodworking.

$500 would get you an older Unisaw that needed work, a decent used heavy duty contractors saw, a Dewalt or Makita Track saw, or a used Festool track saw.

You may want to rationalize the purchase differently-A used Powermatic 66 or Unisaw that did not need work or say a Grizzly 0715 or 1023 would be more $ (800-$1400) but could be resold down the line and much if not nearly all of your investment recaptured. It would also pay for itself the first time you and your wife were able to fix something yourself instead of calling a contractor.

Also, if you buy a used saw and spend more $, you may get accessories with the saw-I got really lucky when I got my craftsman saw, as it came with an Incra fence and $300 of extra blades....probably a grand if I had bought it separately. People get out of woodworking all of the time. Position yourself where you ahve cash, and wait for the right deal to come along. It won't be quick but it will be affordable.

You may want to google Ana White-she is a home maker from Alaska who builds a lot of things with minimal tools. Building things for a fraction of the cost of Ikea furniture from lumber yard materials could free up cash for tools.

Having stuff you built easily that looks good and that you use every day will also encourage you to build more things.

[scott spencer]

... Would $500-600 get me anything worth buying? The full size new saws in that price range would be the Delta 36-725, Ridgid R4512, and similar Craftsman 21833. The Grizzly G0771 and G0771Z are more expensive, but offer cast iron wings, cabinet mounted trunnions, and full enclosure. These saws all have modern safety features and warranties.

Good used saws are always an option if the right deal comes along. From a glance of central and northern NJ, there doesn't appear to be a lot of great options right now. Here are a couple that are at least be worthy of some consideration IMO.
$140 - https://cnj.craigslist.org/for/5953865615.html - full size Craftsman 113 contractor saw with the better fence and a blade guard/splitter assembly
$250 - https://newjersey.craigslist.org/tls/5976168221.html Ridgid 3612 or 2424.
$400 - https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/tls/5953700625.html - Another Cman 113 in nice shape. Not worth $400 IMO, but maybe $300.

[Chris Hachet]

The full size new saws in that price range would be the Delta 36-725, Ridgid R4512, and similar Craftsman 21833. The Grizzly G0771 and G0771Z are more expensive, but offer cast iron wings, cabinet mounted trunnions, and full enclosure. These saws all have modern safety features and warranties.

Good used saws are always an option if the right deal comes along. From a glance of central and northern NJ, there doesn't appear to be a lot of great options right now. Here are a couple that are at least be worthy of some consideration IMO.
$140 - https://cnj.craigslist.org/for/5953865615.html - full size Craftsman 113 contractor saw with the better fence and a blade guard/splitter assembly
$250 - https://newjersey.craigslist.org/tls/5976168221.html Ridgid 3612 or 2424.


That craftsman looks like a pretty good deal actually. Used with the better fence and blade guard/splutter it could give years of decent service.

[Alex Mielko]

The $140 Craftsman saw is already sold (just got a reply from the seller). If not sold, I may check the Ridgid saw for $240 this weekend.

I really appreciate the recommendations. For the past few days I am browsing Craigslist and somehow totally missed the $140 saw. Most likely because I am not knowledgeable enough to know what to look for.

[andy bessette]

Don't waste your money on those cheap, new, lightweight saws. Look for a deal on a decent, used, tables saw. Someone on the forums recently bought a Unisaw for $200 IIRC. But, before I was able to afford Unisaws, I did fine work on an ancient Sears tilting table saw, which I have kept and have setup to do small, precision work (photo). Saws like these can be purchased for under $100.

In 40+ years as a professional woodworker I have never had a riving knife, splitter or blade guard on one of my table saws. The key is to use a carbide blade and properly adjust your fence (and use your head).

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i414/yo-andrew/sears-saw-1_zps55dcda34.jpg

[Chris Hachet]

Don't waste your money on those cheap, new, lightweight saws. Look for a deal on a decent, used, tables saw. Someone on the forums recently bought a Unisaw for $200 IIRC. But, before I was able to afford Unisaws, I did fine work on an ancient Sears tilting table saw, which I have kept and have setup to do small, precision work (photo). Saws like these can be purchased for under $100.

In 40+ years as a professional woodworker I have never had a riving knife, splitter or blade guard on one of my table saws. The key is to use a carbide blade and properly adjust your fence (and use your head).

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i414/yo-andrew/sears-saw-1_zps55dcda34.jpgNeat old American made saw!

[Alex Mielko]

I also found this saw:

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/tls/5982200021.html

According to the seller, fence is included but removed. It is only two towns over so easy to drive to even just to take a look.

[Lee Schierer]

You raise good points. I have an older style Craftsman TS without a splitter and I don't use the factory blade guard. I have an after market fence (Beismeyer) because the original fence was poor.

Kick back occurs infrequently at best. The key is a well tuned saw and operator attention.

You must have the blade aligned with the miter slot and the fence aligned to that miter slot. I use full kerf blades for both ripping (24 tooth) and crosscuts (60 tooth). Sharp blades will make the cut if you don't force them just fine at 1-1/2 Hp. I have never (that is in 40 years) had a single kick back on my TS when I used my feather boards. My original ones were home made wood feather boards with lots of little parallel cut fingers. I now use my Grip tite feather boards and they do a wonderful job of keeping boards down on the table and against the fence. I also use push sticks any time I do a rip cut. I still have all my fingers and they are all full length.
353130.

Even with no history of kick backs I still do not stand where one could hit me if it did decide to happen.

[Chris Hachet]

I also found this saw:

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/tls/5982200021.html

According to the seller, fence is included but removed. It is only two towns over so easy to drive to even just to take a look.


Good luck and keep us posted!

Methinks you will have some fun with it if it winds up in your garage....

[Will Boulware]

Don't shy away from the craftsman 113 saws. Toss a good fence on one of those and they actually turn into a workable machine that's worlds better than any plastic jobsite saw. If you're not comfortable using a table saw, no amount of safety device installation is going to keep you "safe". A sawstop will happily launch a BORG 2x4 back at you if you don't have the sense to look at a board and realize it's full of tension and should be tossed in the burn pile. Go find someone to show you the ropes. Take a class. Find a mentor. Watch some YouTube. Plenty of ways to educate yourself now!

For the record, those microjig splitters work pretty well, and I hear great things about the SharkGuard where applicable, but don't rely on some miracle widget to keep you safe. Use your head. Learn a little bit about the material you're working with. If it looks funny, rip it on a band saw. Rip it with a 4 tpi Disston. Use your circular saw with a track jig. Or don't rip it at all.

Also, if you're not happy with your homemade circ saw jig but you don't want to spend a few hundred bucks on a tablesaw, have you thought about upgrading to one of those eurekazone kits? No personal experience with them, but they're cheaper than a tablesaw if you don't think you'll use it much going forward (but I bet you will).

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I watched a guy cutting plywood on a saw with no fence, splitter, or riven knife. He has done it for years. I did not ask if he ever had a kickback or similar.

I had a nice table saw that had no splitter or riven knife. After a kickback, which hurt, I installed the MJ splitter, which seemed to work.

I am a strong proponent of the safety features, but, no matter what you do, be certain that you learn how to use the saw safely. Understand what causes kickback and how to avoid it. People used saws for years without those safety features. Some were injured, some still are injured each year. I am more risk intolerant than some. I sold my last saw for a great price to someone who has a lower risk threshold.

No matter what you choose to do, just be highly safety aware.

*** EDIT From Here

And I now own a SawStop....

[Wayne Lomman]

The saws pictured above are inherently unsafe. No guard means unsafe. Saws are being recommended that have no kickback if you use it properly and know what you are doing. Guess what? Alex says he doesn't have much experience! Surely the definition of freedom also means the right to freedom from bad advice. All I can hope for is that eventually this culture of taking risks with basic safety disappears as it has in most of the Western world. Cheers

[Art Mann]

I used table saws without a riving knife or spreader continuously for over 40 years without an accident. I was trained on how to use a table saw and avoid dangerous situations in shop class in the late 60's. I don't know where someone would get that training today - perhaps from a good book. The truth is most table saw users do not get hurt with their saw. An accident is absolutely not inevitable.


Alex, anyone who recommends a table saw with no riving knife is sending you to hospital sooner or later. I apologise but in this regard, US safety laws are woefully lacking. If you have a riving knife and guard, you are not going to wear any timber. If this puts one out of reach, stick to the track saw until you can afford a safe one. Cheers

[andy bessette]

The saws pictured above are inherently unsafe...

Actually all table saws are potentially dangerous--they are designed to cut substances which are much harder to cut than human flesh. No amount of gimmicks can make them safe. It is just that many operators work unsafely.

Lee--those are the same magnetic feathering boards I (sometimes) use.

OP--that Rigid c/l table saw at least has a cast iron top. It might be a good candidate.

[Wayne Lomman]

Sorry but blaming the operator and saying saws are dangerous anyway is just an excuse for doing things the same old bad way. Of course woodworking machinery is dangerous. That is blindingly obvious. You can use machinery that is inherently engineered to be safer than other machinery. If as consumers you continue to accept low standards, the manufacturer's will continue to sell low standard machines as it is lower cost for them.

I apologise (again. I don't know why) for trying to make your workshops safer. Cut the excuses and think about it. Cheers

[andy bessette]

...I apologise (again. I don't know why) for trying to make your workshops safer...

I really don't want anyone trying to make me do anything at all in my own workshop. But thanks for the thought. :)

[Wayne Lomman]

No-one it's making you do anything, Andy. That would impacting on your freedom. You do whatever you like in your own workshop.

However it would be remiss of someone as experienced in both timber trade work and workplace health and safety as I am to let poor safety advice go unanswered. I have no personal axe to grind with this. Cheers

[Brian Henderson]

I really don't want anyone trying to make me do anything at all in my own workshop. But thanks for the thought. :)

There's a difference between offering and forcing it. That's one reason I will never forgive Sawstop for what they tried to pull, trying to force all saws sold in the U.S. to use their proprietary technology, at a cost, through force of law. Luckily, that didn't happen. Anyone who wants to buy a Sawstop is welcome to do so. Anyone who doesn't, doesn't have to. Neither side is any better, inherently, than the other. But while I am entirely fine with the technology being available, it is no substitute for actually engaging in safe work practices in the shop. The Sawstop technology is useless if you never come into contact with the blade. If you do, that's something you're doing wrong. You are at fault. The technology only exists to save you from your own stupidity.

I'm fine just not being stupid in the first place.

[scott spencer]

Wayne, a splitter can be added to any of those saws, making it a bit safer, while enjoying the inherent benefits of a larger operating surface and more mass. Feel better now?

[andy bessette]

Here are my other 3 table saws, also with no guards, splitters or riving knives. Another advantage to the clear tops is that these saw tables are sometimes covered in poly sheeting and used for extra assembly bench area when doing large or complex glue-ups.

The first is setup with a fine tooth, carbide, crosscut blade. The 2 in the 2nd photo are setup with carbide rip blade and dado.

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i414/yo-andrew/shop-1_zpswjliawky.jpg
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i414/yo-andrew/shop-2_zpsn3iobisa.jpg

[Roger Marty]

If you can't find anything on Craigslist, stretch your budget to $530 and get the Ridgid R4512. It is sturdy and has good safety features. I like it.

[David Kumm]

I knew this would turn into a riving knife thread. Alex, if you don't know much about machines and how they work, find a friend who can help you assess a saw, particularly if you buy used. Poorly fitting fences, an arbor not adjusted to the miter slot, AND even an improperly sized riving knife can screw up your life. Plywood should seldom be cut on a small saw and bevels can be killers if you don't set the fence to the proper side of the blade. A fence that seems good on the right might bind on the left. You need someone to show you the ropes. A half hour with someone who knows how to use the saw might be a bigger deal than riving vs splitter. And yes, riving knives need to be sized properly and few are. Most saws come with one that is thin enough to clear most blade thicknesses. They should be thicker than the plate but thinner than the kerf. Dave

[Alex Mielko]

I understand that safety features are there for a reason and I would definitely would want to have them in my table saw. I also know that experienced users can work without them because they know their equipment and how to safely work with it. My father in law is an electrician by trade and he never flips circuit breakers when working on a live wire. He just knows how to do his job without getting killed. Me on the other hand, I double and triple check that everything is disconnected even for a simple job like changing a bulb. Same with woodworking. I am just not experienced enough. That's why I think I do need some of the safety features. That plus safety glasses, common sense and most likely a trip to a library or as you have suggested woodworking class. All good info here coming from both sides of the discussion.

[glenn bradley]

My $80 113. Craftsman/Emerson saw worked well for me after I added a good fence, made my own ZCI and added the Micro-Jig MJ splitter. I later added an overarm guard/collector. All in all I spent much less than an upper end tracksaw setup and had all the advantages of a tablesaw.

By the time I was done I had spent what a better saw would cost BUT, I was able to get the saw, go to work and slowly improve it as I could afford to over time. I did add the fence and splitter right off because working without a good version of either is a poor idea IMHO.

[Art Mann]

I know it may come as a surprise to you but there are people who simply can't afford new saws with the latest safety technology like riving knives or blade brakes. Are you saying they should give up because the hobby is too expensive or too dangerous?


Sorry but blaming the operator and saying saws are dangerous anyway is just an excuse for doing things the same old bad way. Of course woodworking machinery is dangerous. That is blindingly obvious. You can use machinery that is inherently engineered to be safer than other machinery. If as consumers you continue to accept low standards, the manufacturer's will continue to sell low standard machines as it is lower cost for them.

I apologise (again. I don't know why) for trying to make your workshops safer. Cut the excuses and think about it. Cheers

[CPeter James]

There are many good used saws out there in your price range. Yes, the Sawstop is great and wonderful and all that, but you can still get hurt with it. For the money you have to spend you could get a decent used contractor saw or maybe even a cabinet saw that needed a little work and if you look around, you may be ablew to find one with a decent fence and the blade guard/splitter still there.

That DeWalt, or for that matter, any of the small portable saws, has very limited capacity and more chance to cause an injury because it will be pushed beyond it's safe working capacity.
CPeter

[Wayne Lomman]

To all and sundry, in Australia one doesn't have to make a choice between a safe saw and an unsafe saw. Any old banger still has a riving knife. My point here is that you can buy any saw you want and use it how you want with whatever safety equipment you want. That is your freedom of choice. To advise someone else to do something when there is a safer and no less productive way is negligent and culpable in my view. Safety is about progress. If there is a better and safer way to do things, go for it. As I said in another post somewhere, my father was compensated in the 1930's for a swap injury because his boss set it up without a riving knife. So that makes it at least 80 years that riving knives have been mandatory in Australia. It's a no brainer here. What you do in USA is your affair, I just mistakenly thought an alternative viewpoint might lead to enlightenment. Cheers

[Alex Mielko]

Today, I bought the Rigid table saw (model # TS2412) for $125. I haven't started it yet because it is setup fro 220V but motor can be connected for 110V. It came with extension wings, blade guard and splitter combo and fence. The original Rigid fence is missing rail on which the fence slides but seller gave me Xacta Fence II system. All is in good condition. Just a little dusty. Previous owner even built a DIY dust collection system underneath so all I have to do is to connect the shop vac hose. Hopefully, once I put it all together, the saw will be working fine. I was surprised how heavy the saw is even without the fence, extension wings, etc. I could barely lift it to put it on my truck.

[andy bessette]

OP--well done. You can't go wrong for $125.

[Chris Hachet]

OP--well done. You can't go wrong for $125.Agreed.Run220tothegarage

[Alex Mielko]

Run220tothegarage

I can do that but that's going to be end of 2017 project when my father in law visits us. He's an electrician. For now, I will have to use the saw on 110V.

[scott spencer]

That's a good saw...congrats. The Aligna-rip fence is roughly the Craftsman equivalent of the Ridgid fence, and is an upgrade from the older Emerson steel fences. You can probably slide the rails over farther to the right if you want more rip capacity. $125 is a nice deal....can't go wrong if it runs. Get it aligned, check the belt and pulleys, and get a decent blade (http://lumberjocks.com/knotscott/blog/12395) for it.