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Jim Koepke
01-29-2017, 9:12 PM
Before leaving for vacation Rob Lee arranged for a Veritas Small Plow Plane (VSPP) and blades to be sent for me to use and review.

I have invited others to come over and give it a try if they would like. If you are in the general area of southern Washington state and would like to give it a try send me a PM. Warning, my shop is a bit of a mess. I have done a little cleaning but there is still plenty of mess. It is also cold this time of year, bundle up. Finally it would have to take place in the next three or four weeks. After all, it is only on loan.

We were out for the day Wednesday shopping. We normally come in to the house’s back door from our car. Later in the evening when Candy went out to secure our chicken for the night she was surprised by a package sitting on our front porch. When I saw the Lee Valley tape my interest grew.

My experience with plow planes includes three planes by Stanley, a #45, a #50, a #55 and also a wooden plow plane. The Veritas Small Plow Plane is most like the Stanley #50 in size and its operation.

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Supertool.com (Patrick’s Blood & Gore) lists the Stanley #45 at 9-1/2 pounds. The shipping label on the VSPP said 5 pounds.

The plow plane in this revue is the right handed version. There being both right and left hand versions of a plow plane is great for left handed users. How ever, in some situations with uncooperative grain working a left handed plane may be the best way for a right handed user to avoid tear out. It is possible to set up some older plow planes to work left handed. It is usually rather awkward and isn’t really a left handed plane as much as a plane rigged to have the fence on the other side. I will have to give this a try at being set up backwards later.

The set up of the VSPP is fairly straight forward compared to the #45 or #55. For the smaller plow and beading blades only one skate is used. The #50 also works in this way. The problem with the #50 is the bolt to secure smaller blades is almost always missing in action. The VSPP is shipped standard with a 1/4” blade.

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There are two holding screws and one adjusting screw. One of the holding screws comes in from the side to prevent unwanted lateral movement. The other holding screw also secures the lever cap. This gives the lever cap two points of contact holding the blade. The blade depth adjusting screw is a 10-32 thread for blade adjustments. Both the side and lever cap screw should be loosened during depth adjustments. At first the adjuster seemed small. With the size of the plane body, it is likely as big as it can be. The adjusting screw is an interesting piece in it self. The ring engaging the blade notch rotates freely on the screw body. This should help to prevent lateral deflection while adjusting cutting depth.

The fence design makes this plane more comfortable to use than its ancestors. Many plow planes have the rods secured to the plane’s main body. The fence is slid along the rods to the desired position to be held in place by bolts on the fence. This usually leaves the rods sticking out where one wants to find a grip. The VSPP uses a different approach with the rods attached to the fence. The fence’s position is then held by two collets on the planes main body. My left hand felt right at home on the contoured bridge arm of the fence casting. This also contributed to a better sense of control. The collets seemed to work well even with my bare, slightly arthritic hands doing the tightening. Maybe it is because the collets use eight segments. They held tight during my use.

A welcome surprise was even though this is a small plane, the open ended handle made it very comfortable in my hands. The closed handle design on my Stanley plow planes feels cramped at times.

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Here the plane is being used with a 1/4” blade right out of the box. The Veritas blades each come with a label warning users to be careful due to the blade’s sharpness. They are not kidding. Most of the blades I have received from other makers mention the blades may need a little honing before use.

The VSPP has a varried assortment of blades. There are both metric and Imperial size blades. There are 9 metric sizes from 4mm to 18mm. From 8mm to 18mm are listed in only in even sizes. The Imperial sizes run from 1/8” to 3/4” in 1/16” increments. At 7/16” or 12mm and above the blades require a conversion kit to be used. There are also six tongue-cutting blades available for the VSPP, three in Imperial sizes 1/8”, 3/16”, 1/4” plus three metric sizes 4mm, 5mm and 6mm. The larger blades are made so as to be used in either the left or right hand plane configurations.
There are three beading blades available, 1/8, 1/16 & 1/4” with each being available in left or right hand versions for their respective plane bodies.

One of the beading cutters was tried and wasn’t different in use than setting up with a plowing blade.

The tricky set up was with a tongue-cutting blade. To use any of these the conversion kit is needed. There is also a shaving diverter to install in place of the depth gauge. The set up of a tongue is easier if the diverter is put in place before the blade. Also before installing the blade is the blade’s depth stop. This needs to be set lower on the blade for everything to fit together properly.

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This shows the blade’s depth adjuster set against part the body casting under the blade. The chip diverter is above the blade. In this position the blade is just shy of engagement in the work. It makes me shiver to think of the maths that went into getting all of these parts just right.

With the 1/4” tongue-cutter the chip diverter helps to keep the shavings from jamming. Each tongue-cutting blade is supplied with a chip diverter and an allen wrench to adjust the depth stop on the blade.

A question that seems to come up at times about this plane is if it can use blades made for the Stanley #45 or #55.

The answer is not as simple as yes or no. A picture of the blades might help:

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The top blade is from my #50. It is shorter than all the others. The two center blades are from a Stanley #45 or #55. They are longer than the Veritas blades. To use them in the VSPP the adjusting screw must be removed. The blade then needs to be set by feel, just like my #50.

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Larger Stanley beading would likely be problematic if one attempted to use them. One problem is the length of the side holding screw. The next is with the adjustable skate:

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The conversion kit for larger blades doesn’t have a bevel to allow the needed clearance for a typical beading blade. A special blade with a wider quirk on the outside of the bead might work. One has to remember this is a Small Plow Plane. It is nimble and capable of very good work. How ever, when it gets to the heavier work, just like working with bench planes, a bigger brother might be better.

This will be continued later with some thoughts, musings and possibly more pictures, especially if they are requested.

jtk

Frederick Skelly
01-29-2017, 9:57 PM
Hi Jim,
Glad you finally got a chance to try the plow. I have one and like it a lot.
I, for one, would be interested to hear more of your thoughts of how the LV compares to the 45, 50 & 55.

Take care,
Fred

Malcolm Schweizer
01-30-2017, 1:28 AM
Mine arrived last week, and I bought the whole "kit & kaboodle." As always, cutting edges arrived well-honed and flattened. I haven't yet tried the tongue cutters, but I did get them out along with the adapter. You really can't beat the versatility of this plane. My first use will be a groove for the shelf ledge in the Roubo bench, and I may bead the edge of the stretchers.

My only beef is more of a personal preference. I don't like the way the bead has a flat on either side. I am likely going to grind that down to more of a point so the bead terminates into a "V".

This little plane is going to get a lot of use, as all the trim work in my house is beaded and I have a bunch of shutters to build, also beaded on the lip. I'm also making a pair of doors that may get a double tongue and groove in lieu of a rail and stile.

Jim Koepke
01-30-2017, 2:40 AM
My only beef is more of a personal preference. I don't like the way the bead has a flat on either side. I am likely going to grind that down to more of a point so the bead terminates into a "V".

Me thinks they could not do away with the flat on either side of the bead so they called it a quirk.

One has to remember when changing or sharpening a blade from this type of plane is the blade needs to be a hair wider than the skate. If the blade doesn't cut all around the skate, cutting progress will come to a stop.

The second thing to remember is the sides have a bevel for a clearance angle. In my experience the blades on Stanley combination planes work much better with the edge well honed, at least where it engages the work.

jtk

Derek Cohen
01-30-2017, 3:06 AM
My only beef is more of a personal preference. I don't like the way the bead has a flat on either side. I am likely going to grind that down to more of a point so the bead terminates into a "V".


Me thinks they could not do away with the flat on either side of the bead so they called it a quirk.

Exactly!

I am not sure if it is a quirk or an arris ... either way it is needed to define the bead.

If you are keen to read more about the Small Plow ...

Review and comparison with Records #044 and #043 (2007): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Small%20Plow%20Plane.html

Accessory Blades (T&G) (2012): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/AccessoryBladesfortheVeritasSmallPlow.html

The Small Plow as a Beading Plane (2016): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasSmallPlowasaBeadingPlane.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

Chris Hachet
01-30-2017, 6:11 AM
I could see this in my future, but right now I am upgrading the power tools in the shop. Thanks for the review, helpful!

Malcolm Schweizer
01-30-2017, 7:06 AM
Me thinks they could not do away with the flat on either side of the bead so they called it a quirk.

One has to remember when changing or sharpening a blade from this type of plane is the blade needs to be a hair wider than the skate. If the blade doesn't cut all around the skate, cutting progress will come to a stop.

The second thing to remember is the sides have a bevel for a clearance angle. In my experience the blades on Stanley combination planes work much better with the edge well honed, at least where it engages the work.

jtk

Ah, good point. The plane I was using to make beads was an old wooden beading plane with a shaped bottom, so there is no need to clear for the skate. I didn't consider that, thanks.

Derek, on the old beading planes you still had a defined bead, but with more of a "V" trough than a flat one. Anyway, it's not a huge deal. I will still use this for the beads, as it is much easier to use.

Phil Mueller
01-30-2017, 8:41 AM
Hi Derek; copied from your beading post:
The nice thing about this mod is that it is now really just a couple of extra blades.

My question is are you saying the back bevel is only best for against the grain, or would the back bevel be fine with the grain as well? It's just your suggestion of extra blades that raised my curiousity.

Derek Cohen
01-30-2017, 9:09 AM
Hi Derek; copied from your beading post:
The nice thing about this mod is that it is now really just a couple of extra blades.

My question is are you saying the back bevel is only best for against the grain, or would the back bevel be fine with the grain as well? It's just your suggestion of extra blades that raised my curiousity.

Hi Phil

Of course, one planes with the grain if sensible. The only reason I planed against the grain was to demonstrate how the modification could help with reversing grain. As we all know, reversing grain is often included in the choicest of woods, even when we prefer not to have it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Phil Mueller
01-30-2017, 9:21 AM
Thanks Derek. I'm considering this purchase and anticipate using it both with and against the grain. Just seeing if you thought it best to purchase extra blades for back beveling.

Derek Cohen
01-30-2017, 9:36 AM
Phil, I think it is enough to have one set of blades, with the backbevel. An extra set for a backbevel is not needed. They should plane equally well with the grain. Try one out first. The backbevel is very small. Grind it out if you do not like the result.

Regards from Perth

Derek

lowell holmes
01-30-2017, 2:53 PM
I have one with all of the cutters. It is a sweet package.

I particularly like the tongue and groove cutters.

The beading cutters are nice too.

Tony Wilkins
01-30-2017, 3:55 PM
I haven't had a chance to use my beading blade yet. I've thought about getting a tongue cutter blade instead of an LN49 but I'm also curious about the Veritas large plow upcoming.

lowell holmes
01-30-2017, 5:02 PM
I treasure my Lie Nielsen planes. I also treasure my Veritas planes. That is a hard decision to make.:)

If you think you will do a lot of tongue and groove work, I might go for the Lie Nielsen.

OTOH, if you will do occasional tounge and groove work, . . . . .

Malcolm Schweizer
01-30-2017, 5:34 PM
I haven't had a chance to use my beading blade yet. I've thought about getting a tongue cutter blade instead of an LN49 but I'm also curious about the Veritas large plow upcoming.

Large plow? Is this confirmed? I remember some rumor, but nothing verifiable. I would buy one. As for the tongue cutter, I say get the set before buying a dedicated tongue and groove plane. You could always sell the set if you don't like them.

Stew Hagerty
01-30-2017, 6:02 PM
I bought one about a year ago with all of the (imperial) bells & whistles. Other than playing around with it some when I first got it, I've only had the chance to use it one time. I have to say, I really liked it. I also have a vintage 45 with a number of cutters which I always thought was kind of fussy to use but, as they often do, LV seems to have built on and improved the old. You'd have to pry my VSPP from my cold dead hands.

Large Plow??? I hadn't heard anything about that yet. :confused:

lowell holmes
01-30-2017, 7:59 PM
Why would anyone need a large plow plane. My Veritas small plow plane does everything I've ask it to. It plows grooves and with the tongue iron in it does tongues. It also does a great job making rabbets.

steven c newman
01-30-2017, 8:14 PM
I think I'll just make do with what I have on hand...
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Have had a bunch of these to do. lately..
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Oh, and a few of these, too..
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Fairly easy to do...
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Used the same plane to run a bit of molding, too..
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Cutter is the sash cutter.

Just might do me, for now......

Rob Lee
01-31-2017, 1:08 AM
Large plow? Is this confirmed? I remember some rumor, but nothing verifiable. I would buy one. As for the tongue cutter, I say get the set before buying a dedicated tongue and groove plane. You could always sell the set if you don't like them.

Large plow confirmed....should be fall or before. I did post some pictures somewhere a few months ago...

Cheers,

Rob
(40C in Uluru today.....)

Hilton Ralphs
01-31-2017, 7:06 AM
Large plow confirmed....should be fall or before. I did post some pictures somewhere a few months ago...


Indeed you did, in this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?244609-A-Promise-Kept&highlight=large+plow).

Derek Cohen
01-31-2017, 7:41 AM
I will not post pics without the go-ahead of Rob and co (I have a pre-production version, and changes may still take place), but I can say that it has 14 brass knobs! And the best depth adjuster I have seen for a long time.


Why would anyone need a large plow plane. My Veritas small plow plane does everything I've ask it to. It plows grooves and with the tongue iron in it does tongues. It also does a great job making rabbets.

This one is almost 'drop a blade in and go'. And it does much more than the Small Plow. Where the Small Plow is nimble, the Large Plow has power, yet retains that delicate feel as it is not that much larger.

That's about as much as a teaser I will offer at this time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Jim Koepke
02-01-2017, 12:11 PM
Here are my thoughts and musings after a bit more time with the Veritas Small Plow Plane.

A small plow plane can be a very useful tool. Anyone building paneled doors, case sides boxes or drawers will appreciate the ease of plowing slots or adding decorative beads on their projects.

At the beginning of my writing on the VSPP my experience with some no longer made plow planes was mentioned. To me, the VSPP is most comparable to the Stanley #50 which is a Stanley version of a small plow plane. In my experience on some jobs a small plow plane is not only quite capable, it is preferred.

There are a couple of things, in my opinion, that could be different is the 1/4” tongue-cutter. It measured 0.791” wide which is good for 3/4” stock. Some of my nominal 1” wood is wider.

There is a hex drive screw used to secure the depth stop holding assembly. When trying to install the chip diverter used with the tongue-cutting blade it was helpful I had a 3/32" driver to adjust this screw a bit. Including an allen key would be helpful for those who might not have the correct size.


The following replies have been edited to make my response easier to understand.




A question that seems to come up at times about this plane is if it can use blades made for the Stanley #45 or #55.

The answer is not as simple as yes or no.
jtk

While out in my shop with another woodworker looking at planes including the VSPP an attempt was made to use a fluting blade. It protrudes too far beyond the skate to be of use. The Stanley tongue-cutters and sash cutters have about as much protrusion beyond the cut out to work properly. Grinding them back would be a lot of good metal lost.




I, for one, would be interested to hear more of your thoughts of how the LV compares to the 45, 50 & 55.

Take care,
Fred

To me the Veritas Small Plow Plane is more on par with the #50 than the #45 or #55. The #50 does have nickers available. For most uses the nickers on my plow planes are not used. A knifed line along the edges usually leaves a neater looking cut.

The #55 is a plane all to itself with the movable skate being adjustable up and down to accommodate non-symmetrical molding blades.

I like the smaller plow plane for plowing slots for drawer bottoms and such. Even light beading seems like less work with a smaller plane. When working with wide, large bead or reeding (multiple bead) blades a hefty plane seems the better choice. The #45 & #55 are larger planes with a bit more heft for heavier work. The Veritas Large Plow Plane may be the modern day answer for those who do heavier work.


Thanks Derek. I'm considering this purchase and anticipate using it both with and against the grain. Just seeing if you thought it best to purchase extra blades for back beveling.

Along with Derek Cohen’s answer of using a back bevel, when going against the grain, problematic grain or cross grain it can be helpful to knife cut the sides of the blade’s path. This helps to avoid side wall tear out and splintering.


Why would anyone need a large plow plane. My Veritas small plow plane does everything I've ask it to. It plows grooves and with the tongue iron in it does tongues. It also does a great job making rabbets.

The large plow plane will likely have a wider array of blades. Hopefully it will also allow the movable skate to slide under the blade. I like using a blade wider than my intended rabbet with both skates on the work. The large plow plane looks like it will also have nickers. These are handy for cross grain work.


I think I'll just make do with what I have on hand...

Just might do me, for now......

That was also my feeling. Then one day my favorite antique mall had a #50 priced lower than I could refuse. My original thought was if it didn’t work out it could likely be sold for a profit. Well, it is still in my shop with no intentions toward selling.

If you see one Steven, don’t let it get away if it is priced right. You may not want to resell it once you use it.

Derek Cohen on the Large Plow:



This one is almost 'drop a blade in and go'. And it does much more than the Small Plow. Where the Small Plow is nimble, the Large Plow has power, yet retains that delicate feel as it is not that much larger.

That's about as much as a teaser I will offer at this time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Small - nimble
Large - power

Well said thank you,

jtk

Chris Hachet
02-01-2017, 12:46 PM
I will not post pics without the go-ahead of Rob and co (I have a pre-production version, and changes may still take place), but I can say that it has 14 brass knobs! And the best depth adjuster I have seen for a long time.



This one is almost 'drop a blade in and go'. And it does much more than the Small Plow. Where the Small Plow is nimble, the Large Plow has power, yet retains that delicate feel as it is not that much larger.

That's about as much as a teaser I will offer at this time.

Regards from Perth

DerekAnd here I was going to try to go the rest of the year without buying any more planes.

Jim Koepke
02-01-2017, 12:49 PM
And here I was going to try to go the rest of the year without buying any more planes.

I don't even try that for a weekend out.

jtk