MFT or not to MFT, that is the question... [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

david mcintyre

01-29-2017, 2:42 PM

I've been spending a lot of time researching the MFT. Seems quite a few have similar complaints:

The tops sag over time
The stabilizers are needed or it's wobbly
You need a precision square or triangle to realign the rail when changing for different thickness material
The rail hinge develops slop (hence the slop stop)

With that said, how many just use bench dogs (Qwas dogs, Qwas rail dogs and the like) and keep the material and fence square using the precisely drilled holes?

There's a lot of opinions.

Some can't live without it
Others think it's way overpriced and with having to buy so many "accessories" to make it perform like it should tend to build their own.

What's your opinion?

Sincerely, Dave.

lowell holmes

01-29-2017, 3:09 PM

What in blazes is MFT?

Mike Henderson

01-29-2017, 3:15 PM

Darcy Warner

01-29-2017, 3:18 PM

Never noticed the top sagging on mine, I have never used the fence set up on mine.
I don't find it wobbly for what I do.

David T gray

01-29-2017, 3:25 PM

Victor Robinson

01-29-2017, 4:13 PM

More time than money? Build your own to suit your needs. Look at the Paulk workbench, the MFTC, and the MPT and combine their features into a customized solution for yourself while saving a few hundred bucks.

More money than time? Just buy the thing and be done with it. It is definitely NOT the end all be all of a portable workbench.

glenn bradley

01-29-2017, 4:41 PM

What in blazes is MFT?

Festool MultiFunction Table
(https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-495315-mft-3-multifunction-table.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiAwrbEBRDqxqzMsrTGmogBEiQAe SE6ZfJz0GlE8OD2Md0DWvcXaQcqR2BpqusGqESgdxMUCS0aAgu g8P8HAQ)
Mike

That was funny. Lowell must skip right past any threads that have to do with Festooishness. On the other hand I had no idea the Superbowl was next weekend until I tried to set a work-thing up with someone. He stared at me and said (as if explaining things to a child) "It's Super Bowl Sunday!?!". I just blinked and said "Okay how about the next weekend?". My point being, we are all out of the loop on something no matter how important it may seem to others ;-)

To the OP; there are may "systems" or methods of work that one can use to accomplish a task. If your type of woodworking is a lot like that used by those folks that can't live without 'em, than I would look closer.

I use a tablesaw and a DRO as one of my "systems". If my DRO went out I would purchase another one immediately; my methods of work have evolved with it making it pretty integral to how I work. Can I live without one? Sure. I would just be a lot slower.

I'm sure many people feel the same ay about their MFT and the tools they use with it. It is a way of approaching the task at hand. Folks who have used one for awhile probably have the MFT factored into what they are going to do before they even pick up their material.

EZ Smart, Sommerfeld cabinet construction methods, Leigh FMT and dovetail jigs . . . all these things work best if you totally buy into the method and concepts. Look at what you do, how you do it and how that might improve with an MFT-etc. and make your decision based on that; you'll probably make the right choice.

Van Huskey

01-29-2017, 5:54 PM

If one is a woodworker, don't do site work (or need it to fold up) and have the time to build an alternative then I say no to the MFT. There are plenty of ways to get a 96mmx20mm top, some discussed in a thread this week, and you can build one to fit your workflow and your available space. I can't build a better Domino but I can build a MFT-like table that is better for my shop and work (for a lot less as well).

An example of a MFT like build on a bigger scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cepg2DAkKQE

Ole Anderson

01-29-2017, 6:24 PM

What in blazes is MFT?
My question too. Sometimes we assume everyone has the knowledge we do. You know what they say about assumptions...

I haven't had a drink of the green Kool Aid so I didn't have the slightest. I kept working around Medium Density Fiberboard, but it did not fit.

Van Huskey

01-29-2017, 6:29 PM

My question too. Sometimes we assume everyone has the knowledge we do. You know what they say about assumptions...

While I agree with your point 100%, from an OP's POV if one doesn't know what an MFT is, they likely won't have an opinion as to whether Hamlet should suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous Festool prices or not. :D

Jim Becker

01-29-2017, 6:59 PM

No sag on mine, either...and I've had it for almost a decade. I don't use mine much, but it's handy to have as an additional workstation for certain things using both the saw and the router. And it's my go-to for "in the house" work for the same. If I ever move my lathe "upstairs" to free up space, it's likely that the MFT will be setup all the time in the shop.

Johannes Becker

01-29-2017, 7:32 PM

I have two MFTs in my shop and like the versatility for clamping and working with the track saw. Since I don't have a table saw I use it for crosscutting anything that is wider than my miter saw allows. No problems and the MFT allows you to do repeatable cuts with the stops. However, as pointed out above, you can build something that does all of that for a fraction of the costs. There are plenty of ideas and plans around. I would have a look at the MFT slab and the Paulk workbench as well as alternatives. There are even plenty of ideas on how to drill holes with accurate spacing (e.g. the kit Peter Parfit sells via LV). It all depends in how much time and money you want to invest. And since it doesn't sound like you are convinced by the MFT why don't you give it a go and build something yourself.

Dick Mahany

01-29-2017, 7:32 PM

I downsized and moved into a new home a year ago. I needed to build many cabinets, but most of my tools were several months away from being delivered and in storage 400 miles away.

I bought an MFT and tracksaw even though I wasn't particularly thrilled with buying Festools. What a game changer. I needed something reasonably solid, on the compact side, yet able to be moved between the house and garage. The MFT fit the bill perfectly. It is a jack of all trades, and I keep finding new ways to use it.

Mine hasn't sagged at all, and I made an inexpensive square out with MDF and 2 sets of dogs to help in set up and for checking squareness over time. It won't replace my dedicated work bench, but then I don't run saw blades into the top of my "good" bench either. When the time comes to flip the MFT top to the second side, it will be like new all over.

It was expensive, but even though I now have the rest of my tools from storage, I'll be keeping it as it has been factored into many new ways of work flow.

Jim Dwight

01-29-2017, 7:36 PM

David knows this, we've exchanged notes, but I like my Ron Paulk inspired solution to a track saw work surface. I have a 3x7 rolling workbench with a two layer top with 20mm holes on 4 inch centers bored using a Woodrave router base and pegboard. I made another worksurface about 2x8 feet that is on the workbench where I have my RAS and CMS. That one is made of 1/2 plywood. It also is bored and has Ron Paulk's flush stops which work very well. If I needed something portable, I would make the rolling design available over on the FOG. I don't have space for a slider in my shop nor am I inclined to spend the money to get one. I am happy with my track saw (DeWalt) and small table saw combination. The older I get, the less I like man-handling sheets of 3/4 sheet goods. Flopping them down on my workbench and cutting them up without additional heavy lifting is better than trying to use my table saw on the whole sheet. Sometimes I just put a lattice on the trailer and cut it up right there.

Anyway, for anybody considering a track saw worksurface I would throughly review Ron Paulk's videos. His plans are inexpensive. The designs are well though out. A two layer top eliminates a lot of clutter on the work surface while keeping needed tools very handy. Ron uses Festools, just not a MFT.

The other suggestion is to find the article entitled "Getting the most out of your MFT" or something like that. Even though I do not have a MFT there are lots of good ideas in the article. I have several squaring jigs, for instance.

James Zhu

01-29-2017, 8:23 PM

Some people on Festool Owner Group said MFT with track saw can completely replace table saw. IMO, it is overstatement.

I have Festool MFT and track saw, there is no way I could make accurate final sizing cut on it using track saw, I tried a few times, then gave up. That task is what table saw is made for.

Having said that, MFT is useful. But I would not buy it again, overpriced, I would just make a table with MFT like top.

Patrick Walsh

01-29-2017, 8:34 PM

I have two.

They are connected with the connection bars. I also have the two legged festool router table attached to them. I do everything on them. I even clamp a handtool vise to them to do small handtool planing and chiseling tasks. They do move but not across the floor they just wobble. If not for the router table i bet they would scate across the floor.

I use the rail and my tracksaw for crosscuting pieces my miter saw can not. Much like my miter saw you cant get a reliable 90% cut imop that is. The fence has flex. As does the router tables fence with the sliding table. With that said it does a good enough job that it has earned a spot in my shop for now. When i get a large sliding table saw they will be reserved as my site based work table setup. For now it they are indispensable for crosscutting anything over 12".

Ted Diehl

01-29-2017, 9:41 PM

I'm new to woodworking and as yet have not even used my new MFT except to put it on a mobility sled that I designed and built. The MFT design is well thought out and i can see many ways it would make my woodworking life easier. The table is WAY overpriced but that is Festool's business model and it seems to be working well for them. If you are a serious "woodworking hobbyist" than my take is that you will not be disappointed. Up until now I have never had the ability to clamp a workpiece exactly where I need it, now with the camp systainer and some additonal QWAS Dogs, I am ready to start my next project. Best of luck with your decision to buy or not buy.

Charles P. Wright

01-29-2017, 10:31 PM

I've had mine for about a month. I've not found it great for the crosscut, but have done a couple. I really like it for sanding and routing.. The clamping elements and the ratcheting clamps are great for holding workpieces in place. One MFT is too small for a full size piece of ply so I'm still using a shop made torsion box for the tracksaw. I feel like the fence is slow and not accurate compared to the miter or table saw. For other operations it gets in the way. The cuts I've done have been with parf Dogs.

glenn bradley

01-29-2017, 10:48 PM

Some people on Festool Owner Group said MFT with track saw can completely replace table saw. IMO, it is overstatement.

Ya think? I'm sure they mean it can completely replace the very few things that they would use a tablesaw for. Maybe the MFT box joint, coving, raised panel, 2" deep dado, tenoning, production-run crosscut-to-length attachment accessory is soon to be announced.

I think anyone should be able to perform their tasks any way they want. Having to justify why you do it that way is not a requirement :)

Van Huskey

01-30-2017, 4:54 AM

Ya think? I'm sure they mean it can completely replace the very few things that they would use a tablesaw for. Maybe the MFT box joint, coving, raised panel, 2" deep dado, tenoning, production-run crosscut-to-length attachment accessory is soon to be announced.

I think anyone should be able to perform their tasks any way they want. Having to justify why you do it that way is not a requirement :)

I think it has a lot to do with how one accomplishes tasks. I use the router table to cut box joints, the shaper for raised panels and coving, production crosscuts are the purvue of the miter saw, many dados I used to do on a RAS but now use a router on a MFT type top. Most smaller traditional square tenons I still cut on the table saw but I use more Dominos now. While I still use my TS a LOT an MFT along with a tracksaw and router are more efficient for many things and if I was forced to I could replace my TS. For me a 96x20 top makes a lot of things easier and doesn't help efficiency at all with others, I see it merely as another arrow in the quiver that like most any other tool the more you use it the more interesting ways you find to use it. Also in fairness to the Foggers that see it as a table saw replacement, many of those are site workers and honestly I think most anyone would prefer a MFT/track saw/router combo as a better choice than a portable site saw. In the end, I am usually game to try something new and have found many new ways I think are better over the years but I still can't wrap my head around using a slider exclusively without a cabinet saw in the shop.

david mcintyre

01-30-2017, 9:59 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I have two MFTs in my shop and like the versatility for clamping and working with the track saw. Since I don't have a table saw I use it for crosscutting anything that is wider than my miter saw allows. No problems and the MFT allows you to do repeatable cuts with the stops. However, as pointed out above, you can build something that does all of that for a fraction of the costs. There are plenty of ideas and plans around. I would have a look at the MFT slab and the Paulk workbench as well as alternatives. There are even plenty of ideas on how to drill holes with accurate spacing (e.g. the kit Peter Parfit sells via LV). It all depends in how much time and money you want to invest. And since it doesn't sound like you are convinced by the MFT why don't you give it a go and build something yourself.I would love to build one myself but have been having quite a time finding a way using the LR32 system. Believe me I've been searching and reading and reading...
I've seen this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_4jAqE6OZgk and Kriss is a genius but that doesn't tell me how to make precise holes without a MFT. I don't really want too spend another $200 on yet another system. I've just started down that slippery slope that is Fe$tool...
Sincerely, Dave.

Victor Robinson

01-30-2017, 10:41 AM

Not sure if you're planning to build one or many worksurfaces, but for one having the top CNC machined is a good option if you really need the perfectly square grid. I find I use that aspect of my MFT and custom surfaces a lot less than I thought I would, so depending on how you plan to work it might even be an unnecessary goose chase [to get it so perfectly square]. I used the LR32 and 96mm spacers and ended up with a square enough grid for my needs.

You could also get the Parf system (which I understand is really accurate) and then resell it.

mark mcfarlane

01-30-2017, 11:47 AM

I use dogs to square the back fence and the drop down crosscut fence. Pretty fast setup (<1 minute) to get square enough cuts. You can move the fence out of square throwing a big piece of wood on the table and slapping it against the fence.

Clamping small items on the table to rout/sand is very easy and handy.

There is no support to the right of the cut which is kind of a PITA but one could add a fence to the right.

The crosscut fence looses its usefulness on thin stock: the back fence is 1/2" tall so 1/4" stock doesn't get 'grabbed' by the crosscut fence. The crosscut fence is 7 1/4" wide which means making cuts < 7.25" are 'problematic', again the crosscut fence won't hold a narrow board very well and you need to put another piece of stock behind the piece being cut, so getting consistent thin cuts to the left of the blade is a challenge. There are workarounds, but its not as clean as working with larger pieces. Crosscut limit is about 24". I also find myself sticking some scrap stock under the crosscut fence so it is fully supported where you lay down the track saw. That takes a few extra seconds per cut.

I put a Starrett tape on the back fence and that makes setting up cuts very fast and accurate, to maybe 0.3mm. I put a dog in a hole near the fence, set the stop at a specific measurement (which is written on the fence), and slide the fence untill it hits the dog. That way I can recalibrate the fence in a few seconds if it is removed.

My overall impression is the MFT makes a good bench for working with 3/4" stock and making square things with the smallest dimension of ~8" . I find it less useful for thin stock and cutting small pieces. It can be done with jigs, but it is slower.

Yonak Hawkins

01-30-2017, 12:29 PM

While I agree with your point 100%, from an OP's POV if one doesn't know what an MFT is, they likely won't have an opinion as to whether Hamlet should suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous Festool prices or not. :D

Ole, I think IC what UR saying.

Ben Rivel

01-30-2017, 12:55 PM

mark mcfarlane

01-30-2017, 1:06 PM

I have thought about picking up an MFT more times than I can remember, but every time I go play with one in the store I always walk away really turned off to how wobbly it is, how it feels like I could build something better and how overpriced it is especially since you pretty much have to buy the cross braces for the legs. I own quite a bit of Festool stuff, but that MFT and Kapex still just dont seem like theyre worth the cost.

FWIW, the wobble in the legs (without the extra cost braces) hasn't effected my use of the table. I wouldn't want to carve or hand plane on it. but for it's intended use (cut, sand, rout) the wobble really isn't noticeable in my almost daily use.

I thought for a while the MFT and Festool tracks and saw might be able to replace a tablesaw in my shop, but after doing a dozen projects on it, the limitations in working with smaller, thinner pieces means a sliding tablesaw is in my future. If I was seriously space constrained, I could get by with an MFT and some jigs and creativity. It's not a bad system, but has some limitations and is, in my mind, about 50% overpriced.

Mark Carlson

01-30-2017, 7:35 PM

I love mine. Old style. I put the top on an adjust-a-bench legs so I can raise and lower it. Drawers at the base between the legs. Also laminted the top so glue is easily removed. I dont use it with the track saw or fence but if I did I'd probably just use the dogs to get right angles.

All you really need is the top if you want to try it. Build your own base.

~mark

Van Huskey

01-30-2017, 9:27 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I would love to build one myself but have been having quite a time finding a way using the LR32 system. Believe me I've been searching and reading and reading...
I've seen this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_4jAqE6OZgk and Kriss is a genius but that doesn't tell me how to make precise holes without a MFT. I don't really want too spend another $200 on yet another system. I've just started down that slippery slope that is Fe$tool...

Sincerely, Dave.

Peter Parfitt's system seems to be pretty easy to get very accurate results from. It isn't cheap BUT there are two things going for it, one you can make tops from now on with the investment OR you can use it ones and sell it on and pay nothing but a "rental fee".

Patrick Walsh

01-30-2017, 9:30 PM

I did the final smothing of this large glue up on the MFT tables today. It was real pain i the rear bit i got it done as its what i have. As you can see i just use the holes to clamp a plane stop down on two side of the workpiece and or a couple clmps around the edges and the palne stop.

A razor sharp plane makes this possible without pushing the bench across the shop.

I really cant wait to have a real handtool work bench.

352907

Patrick Curry

01-31-2017, 1:54 AM

After cutting 68 tops to deminsions, I agree about the slider. Track saws are great and I'll always keep mine handy but slodes take too long for production runs. With or without the table and jigs

david mcintyre

01-31-2017, 9:55 AM

Thanks for all the replies, everyone.
I've decided to build my own. I've purchased the MFTC plans from Tim and will start on that soon.
Sincerely, Dave.

Chris Padilla

01-31-2017, 1:45 PM

I have two.

They are connected with the connection bars.

Ditto although I usually end up placing a sheet of plywood across both of 'em and use 'em as one. I do change how I connect my two MFTs depending on my needs but they have turned into the central workbench in my shop and they are rarely folded up and put away. I don't use it with my track saw very much and I don't use the any of the connections to attach the guide rail. I do have Qwas dogs that I like and use and I do like it a lot for clamping boards for sanding. I've had both of mine 10+ years and haven't noticed any sag.

Rick Potter

02-01-2017, 4:21 AM

What do I think? I think it is a bit too small for my use, and too expensive, but I like the idea of it. I toyed with the idea of getting one, but just bought the Armor table from Rockler instead. 25X54, with 1.5" maple top, 3/4" hole grid, heavy metal stand on locking casters. $400, less $40 for being club member, with a 15% rebate till end of Feb. I will never take it on site anywhere, so this fits my needs better. Along with it, I have all the parts collected to make a Kreg clamping table about the same size. Both will be outfeed/assembly tables also.

I love that do it yourself setup that some are getting, but I know I would never get around to it.

Larry Edgerton

02-01-2017, 7:35 AM

I looked at them and they are too wimpy for my work, I would trash it in no time. Also I was not impressed with the hinged track, so I am thinking I am going to build my own version that will fit on an existing bench.

I really do not like the hinge and the height adjustment. I am thinking a parallelogram setup similar to the table on a modern jointer. Aluminum dog bones with steel shaft and bearing at all the junctions. Built to drop on to an existing 4'6" x 8'6" bench and be replace by a solid flat when not needed. The fence would be on a brass pivot with angle markings out about 4' so small adjustments are easy.

Don't rally want all the holes.