Do I really need a drum sander?

[john hejmanowski]

I need some advise....

I am setting up shop into a two car garage with lost space for family stuff storage. I am just getting into woodworking, hobby stuff. I have made cabinets and closets for the Airstream, next I will make cabinets for a bathroom and then the kitchen. Along the way I have a round table top to replace and some table leaves to make.

I have accumulated everything - powermatic 66 table saw with router, old 8" delta jointer, old 15" grizzly planer, old DeWalt GW1 RAS, old 18" Delta band saw, Delta dust collector, newer Shopfox dual drum sander, and a bunch of quarter sawn white and red oak.

I have come to realize I don't have room to work so I am consolidating. I have sold the powermatic 66, the jointer, the planer and the RAS and purchased a Felder BF5/26 (nice machine).

Here's my question - continuing my consolidation effort, do I really need the Shopfox 26" dual drum sander? I would like to use that floor space for a downdraft table and a ROS.

Thanks. John H

[Mike Hollingsworth]

ShopFox 20' widebelt takes less Real Estate. Last sander you'll ever buy.

[John Lankers]

ShopFox 20' widebelt takes less Real Estate. Last sander you'll ever buy.

I hope that's a typo.
Sorry, couldn't help it http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

[Gene Takae]

IMHO I'd rather keep the drum sander. No need for a downdraft table if you have a good vac attached to your ROS.

[Rich Riddle]

You don't need the sander. That said, many of us use mobile bases and move tools around he shop on them. It's amazing what you can store in a small area with mobile bases.

[john hejmanowski]

I have the Festool 125 ROS with vac and that works pretty good. I also bought in to the Bill Pentz argument for serious dust control (wood dust and mold really mess with my sinus) so I will need/make a downdraft table to hook up to the cyclone system.

All my tools are on locking casters and that does help with space management. But being jammed in kinda bugs me.

I guess, looking at my projects - two bathrooms, a kitchen, and a table top or two, will the 26" drum sander (it's a double-drum in almost new condition that I bought used for $500 is why I have it) provide enough benefit or should I just use a hand plane and a ROS?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Robert Engel]

Not to be sarcastic, but you won't know till you need it and you wish you hadn't sold it......

[Jim Becker]

I had a very nice Performax 22-44 a number of years ago and while it did a good job, I wasn't using it very much and it was taking up an excessive amount of room. I frankly needed the space more than I needed the tool, in other words, so I sold it to another 'Creeker. If you do a substantial amount of panel glue-ups or other operations that will benefit from a drum sander, then sure...but with limited space, if it's only an occasional use tool, it might be better to find another local woodworker who has one that you can get time on his/her machine for a fee or some other arrangement.

[Jim Andrew]

I used to grind glued up panels down smooth with a hand held belt sander. Would go over the panels with a random orbit sander afterwards. Then when I applied finish, would notice the little marks where I changed directions with the belt sander. Asked a pro I used to work with, he did years in a commercial shop, he called them "turkey tracks". Said those are the reason for wide belt sanders. So I ordered the tiny 15" open end widebelt from Grizzly.

[Mike Cutler]

Do you need one? No, but once you own one, you'll not want to be without one. They're incredible time savers.
The only tool sale I've ever regretted, was selling my Performax 16-32. I have a 26" dual drum sander now, but still wish I had kept that Performax 16-32.

As someone that has a Dual drum sander on a mobile base, I will tell you that they are heavy! 550lbs. Get the Shop Fox D2058A Mobile base, and extension rails, D2246A.

[Rod Sheridan]

I've been in the hobby for 40 years and primarily build solid wood furniture.

I've never had a need for a drum or wide belt sander............Regards, Rod.

[john hejmanowski]

For sure this is going to happen.



Not to be sarcastic, but you won't know till you need it and you wish you hadn't sold it......

[john hejmanowski]

I had this same comment from a local pro about drum sanders. This is what got me thinking to use something else.


I used to grind glued up panels down smooth with a hand held belt sander. Would go over the panels with a random orbit sander afterwards. Then when I applied finish, would notice the little marks where I changed directions with the belt sander. Asked a pro I used to work with, he did years in a commercial shop, he called them "turkey tracks". Said those are the reason for wide belt sanders. So I ordered the tiny 15" open end widebelt from Grizzly.

[Van Huskey]

It all depends on what you do and how you work. I love my drum sander and have moved to the top of the drum sander pyramid (50" Woodmaster) and really would like to get a large widebelt but it would be a major investment in the sander, power and DC.

One thing I note is your ROS is a small orbit finish sander so if you get rid of the DS you may need to get a more aggressive ROS with a larger pad.

I honestly don't see the need for a downdraft table with a good quality vacuum and sanders with great dust control like Mirka and Festool. If you have respiratory issue that are triggered by the dust in the air from a ETS along with a good HEPA extractor and a good ambient air filter you should probably be wearing a mask.

[Brian Henderson]

Not to be sarcastic, but you won't know till you need it and you wish you hadn't sold it......

Not necessarily, it depends on your work flow. I sold my big floor-mount mortising machine years ago because I never used it and... still wouldn't have. I loaned my uncle my RAS about 20 years ago, he still has it, I haven't missed it. I suppose that if I made things that required those tools more, I might care, but since I don't...

[Mike Henderson]

I've been in the hobby for 40 years and primarily build solid wood furniture.

I've never had a need for a drum or wide belt sander............Regards, Rod.
I worked for years without a drum sander. Once I got one, I don't ever want to be without one.

But I want a wider one than the one I have.:)

Mike

[David Helm]

Depends on the work you do AND the wood you use. I use a lot of highly figured wood. Can't afford shelix planer heads so I use the drum sander all the time as a thickness planer. Only use 100 grit paper. I get zero tearout with the sander and can use my several ROS to do the rest of the sanding.

[Art Mann]

I have two drum sanders plus a V-belt kit sander. I don't plan on getting rid of any of them. I'm not a typical woodworker but if you really need them, nothing else will do.

[Frederick Skelly]

I worked for years without a drum sander. Once I got one, I don't ever want to be without one.

But I want a wider one than the one I have.:)

Mike

Mike, will you elaborate please? What are you using it for? How did you do the same thing previously? Why do you prefer the sander over your previous approach?

I ask, because I was about to say something similar to what Rod said - until I read your comment.

Thanks!
Fred

[Alan Lightstone]

I worked for years without a drum sander. Once I got one, I don't ever want to be without one.

But I want a wider one than the one I have.:)

MikeI couldn't agree more, Mike. Use mine constantly and wish I had a dual drum, wider one. Of course a wide belt would be great, but I work out of a garage shop, so, sigh, that's not gonna happen.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, will you elaborate please? What are you using it for? How did you do the same thing previously? Why do you prefer the sander over your previous approach?

I ask, because I was about to say something similar to what Rod said - until I read your comment.

Thanks!
Fred
Humm, let me see if I can remember what I used it for the past few times. If I do a panel (that will fit the width of the sander), I'll run it through the sander to get rid of the glue lines and to make sure the panel is of even thickness. When I am thicknessing wood, I'll usually do the last little bit on the sander rather than the planer because I will sometime get tearout on the planer, especially with difficult wood. The sander means never having to say you're sorry.

When I have several pieces of wood and I want to make sure that they are exactly the same thickness, I'll run them all through the sander at the same setting. If I need to reduce a piece of wood to something fairly thin - maybe 3/16 - I'll do the last part on the sander rather than take a chance with the planer. Also, no matter how well you adjust it, your planer is likely to have snipe on the end. The sander generally does not do that so finishing on the sander allows you to use all the wood and not have to cut the snipe off (or sand it out with a ROS and have the wood thinner there).

It's not a case of using the sander to actually sand the wood. I keep 80 grit in the sander and that requires a fair amount of ROS work to remove the lines from that rough a grit. I suppose I mostly use it to make sure pieces are of equal thickness, to avoid tearout that might occur on the planer, and to finish thin pieces of wood. I find that I am putting stock through it on just about every project I do.

Mike

[The main reason I want a wider sander is for panel work. I've been thinking of getting a 10/20 for small stuff (and actually a lot of stuff I use it for is less than 10 wide) and a wider one for panels. I'll park the wide one and only bring it out when the 10/20 won't do the job. I had the opportunity to buy a 10/20 a while back but at that time I said to myself that it was too narrow.]

[John Sincerbeaux]

I think if the OP is asking weather he should keep his drum sander then the answer is obvious?

There is a reason why you often see drum sanders for sale for pennies on the dollar. I practically gave mine away too (GI 25" dd). Unless the drums are rubber coated and grooved, I think drum sanders are fundamentally flawed machines. Aluminum, small radius drums are heat generators. And everyone knows heat is a disaster in sanding. So, to manage this you have to take very very light passes and at slow speeds. My drums did not have hook&loop capability which I know can help manage the heat problem and probably make paper changing easier too?
In my experience, if there was a machine weight vs performance, or price vs. performance matrix, the drum sander would be dead last of ANY machine in a shop.
Not trying to be too negative, but I learned the hard way. I now own a Sac 24" wide belt, and can confidently say, I would never own a drum sander again even if it was given to me.

[Rick Potter]

I am sort of the opposite of Mike. I have a 36" Woodmaster, and sometimes wish I had gotten the 24", because the 36" is larger than I need. I have partially solved the problem by splitting the grits, with 80 on half the drum, and 120 on the other half. I gotta say though, I love the machine.

I got the 36" (37"?), so I could run the occasional face frame through after assembly, but that put sanding lines on the stiles. I now run all my face frame and panel door parts through before final milling, and this has worked out much better for me, and I am sanding down to 120 without making any changes. I just need to hit the completed frame with a fine ROS a little bit. Doing it this way, the narrower sander would be just fine for me if I were replacing the one I have. Having the pieces all the exact thickness has made assembly better also.

My advice? Stick it in a corner for a year or two, and see if you get it out to use.

[Alex Snyder]

I am in the exact same dilemma as the OP. The difference is I've been considering buying a drum sander and almost have on a few occasions. But I have a ridiculous amount of sanders and really really really like the current openness in my garage shop. The center of the shop is a giant sliding table saw, so when I add a new "floor" tool I have to REALLY need it. Over the weekend, after many weeks of research, I pulled the trigger on a 1/2 sheet sander. This is mostly due to the only complaints around this tool seem to be from people who haven't used it properly while those who don't complain include it in every project. Most people consider it an essential part of their workflow.

Here's some thoughts on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex0NRjJy14o&t=310s ....and his videos show how he uses his 1/2 sheet sander all the time.

You already have the Festool vac, so get the RS2E sander. But nearly any 1/2 sheet sander can work with the Festool vacuum. All you really need is the hole punch for non-Festool papers. And most importantly: remember to turn the suction on the vacuum down!

[Nick Decker]

I'll echo what Mike said, as far as how I use mine. I recently got the Jet 10-20 and love it. I make small boxes, and don't have a planer. I don't use the sander so much as a thicknesser, more for final dimensioning and flattening. If all four sides of a box aren't the same thickness, it sucks. Same for flatness. I do run through the grits, 80, 120, 180, but it really doesn't take that long and only a few seconds with the ROS with 220 or so and you're ready to make some well-behaved joints.

(And, Mike, I'd like to throw in a thanks for the box tutorial on your web site. Ran across that a couple of months ago and have found it very useful!)

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Mike!
Fred

[Van Huskey]

I was reading through the last few posts and it kinda hit me, why the heck does the OP need "me" to tell him if he needs a tool he already has???? It is clear we all have different work flows, different projects and methods we like to use so we will have differing opinions as to how useful a particular tool is. So to me it is more of a matter of how often the OP has used his versus how indispensable or not I think it is. Or maybe a list of things people who feel them necessary use them for. In that vein I find it most useful for shop cut veneer. I have a wide DS with hook and loop so when I am doing veneer I run three different grits so I can go from bandsaw to DS then only have the final grit or two done vis ROS. I find this use alone in my shop is worth the room and expense but it is far from my only use.

[john hejmanowski]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. I need and appreciate the education. I had not considered the thicknessing function. I figure to keep the machine, use it and see.

This woodworking stuff sure is interesting.

Thanks again.

[Bill McNiel]

Humm, let me see if I can remember what I used it for the past few times. If I do a panel (that will fit the width of the sander), I'll run it through the sander to get rid of the glue lines and to make sure the panel is of even thickness. When I am thicknessing wood, I'll usually do the last little bit on the sander rather than the planer because I will sometime get tearout on the planer, especially with difficult wood. The sander means never having to say you're sorry.

When I have several pieces of wood and I want to make sure that they are exactly the same thickness, I'll run them all through the sander at the same setting. If I need to reduce a piece of wood to something fairly thin - maybe 3/16 - I'll do the last part on the sander rather than take a chance with the planer. Also, no matter how well you adjust it, your planer is likely to have snipe on the end. The sander generally does not do that so finishing on the sander allows you to use all the wood and not have to cut the snipe off (or sand it out with a ROS and have the wood thinner there).

It's not a case of using the sander to actually sand the wood. I keep 80 grit in the sander and that requires a fair amount of ROS work to remove the lines from that rough a grit. I suppose I mostly use it to make sure pieces are of equal thickness, to avoid tearout that might occur on the planer, and to finish thin pieces of wood. I find that I am putting stock through it on just about every project I do.

Mike

[The main reason I want a wider sander is for panel work. I've been thinking of getting a 10/20 for small stuff (and actually a lot of stuff I use it for is less than 10 wide) and a wider one for panels. I'll park the wide one and only bring it out when the 10/20 won't do the job. I had the opportunity to buy a 10/20 a while back but at that time I said to myself that it was too narrow.]

My thoughts/experience are almost exactly the same as Mike's.I made "stuff" for over 40years before getting a SuperMax 25/50.I mill all my material and the Drum is the final step.Essential when finish thicknessing shop cut veneers.My advise is to keep your wide belt for a while and use it for cabinetdoors, dead on thicknessing, slabs, etc. Mine really dosen't take up that much space and is used constantly, I will not be giving it up unless a superior tool, that I can afford, shows up.

[Mike Henderson]

I am sort of the opposite of Mike. I have a 36" Woodmaster, and sometimes wish I had gotten the 24", because the 36" is larger than I need. I have partially solved the problem by splitting the grits, with 80 on half the drum, and 120 on the other half. I gotta say though, I love the machine.

I got the 36" (37"?), so I could run the occasional face frame through after assembly, but that put sanding lines on the stiles. I now run all my face frame and panel door parts through before final milling, and this has worked out much better for me, and I am sanding down to 120 without making any changes. I just need to hit the completed frame with a fine ROS a little bit. Doing it this way, the narrower sander would be just fine for me if I were replacing the one I have. Having the pieces all the exact thickness has made assembly better also.

My advice? Stick it in a corner for a year or two, and see if you get it out to use.
I talked with a guy that wanted to sell a 37" drum sander a while back. Good price, good condition and he would even deliver it. But it just wouldn't fit in my shop. After I turned him down and told him why, he said, "That's why I'm selling it. I just can't fit it in my shop."

I agree with you - a 22 to 24 inch (at a good price) is what I'm looking for.

Mike

[Jim Tobias]

My uses mirror Mike's almost identically. Woodmaster 36" here and use it all the time instead of my planer.

Jim