Replace Lower Wheel Bearing on Sears 12" #113.24200 Bandsaw

[John Baum]

The tire on the lower, drive wheel on my Sears 12" #113.24200 bandsaw appears to need to be replaced. The tire came off the wheel and wrapped and knotted itself around the driveshaft between the frame and the 'backside' of the wheel. I had to use a puller to remove the wheel to see what I was doing. I cleaned and paste waxed the shaft and inner surface of the wheel to simplify remounting the wheel. As I remounted the wheel, I saw that there is significant play on the shaft in the bearing assembly.

Has anyone replaced this bearing? Are there any problems I should anticipate; any solutions known for such problems? It has a different (37161) part number than the bearing for the upper wheel (38886). That one seems stable when I try to rock the wheel.

If I try to power up the motor and lower wheel alone, there is much noise.

Thanks

John

[Joe Kaufman]

I had problems removing the bearings from the shaft. The shaft is not hardened and is easy to distort, so use care if difficulty experienced. I ended up making a new shaft. Bearings were obtained from a bearing supply house (15 years ago).

Joe

[lowell holmes]

I don't know about Craftsman bandsaws, but I have replaced the top wheel bearings on a 14" Jet. There have been no issues with it.
How much does the bearing cost. I would probably go for it unless I wanted a new saw.

[John Baum]

Thank you Joe and Lowell,

I really appreciate being told that the shaft is not hardened. Perhaps the first thing to check is remove the drive belt and see if the shaft is still straight. My cursory inspection suggests that with the drive pulley removed from the belt end of the shaft, the shaft and bearing should come out towards the front (user) side of the saw. If they come together (bearing tight on the shaft as described) perhaps a few drops of penetrating oil and a tapping on the pulley end of the shaft is the very first step. Then perhaps a hardwood block with a hole big enough to accommodate the shaft from the pulley end so that the bearing can be pulled and or tapped until it slides off is the next step. We shall see.

Any more takers?

thanks

John

[Joe Kaufman]

As I remember - 15 years ago - there were snap rings on the outside of the pair of bearings with a spacer or sleeve between the bearings. The O.D. of the shaft didn't appear to be machined. I attempted to press both bearings with the spacer between, off the shaft with a small arbor press. Wouldn't move. Resorted to a heavy brass hammer and things digressed from that point. There was corrosion/rust on the shaft where the bearings were not in complete contact. Looked like the manufacturer used cold rolled steel w/o machining the bearing seating surface. I have he equipment so I made a new shaft.

[John Baum]

Thank you, Joe, for persisting. May I explore your recollections a bit deeper?

I have all the snap rings and 'keeper screws' removed. I have some decent photos and can clearly identify the bearings. Nachi gave them different numbers. The 'belt end' bearing is 620310NSL. The 'wheel end' bearing is 620310Z. (If anyone wants to see the photos, I can upload them.)

The outer rings of the bearings seem quite 'snug' in their mountings in the cast aluminum frame of the saw. The bearing on the 'belt end' of the shaft turns freely and is probably in good shape. However, the bearing on the 'wheel end' of the shaft is close to frozen. The shaft is turning inside the inner ring. The cold rolled steel has probably been galled badly; there is side-to-side play. This tells me that the shaft, bearings, and spacer will probably all need to be replaced. I am not set up to recreate the shaft and spacer.

Sears tells me I can purchase (in stock) a brand new lower shaft for $30.94. The wheel bearing spacer is another $11.64 and they want $16.06 each for the bearings. I believe I can find 'equivalent' bearings locally for substantially less.

Your mention of the small arbor press suggests that you managed to separate the shaft and bearings from the saw frame. Do you recall if this was particularly difficult? Do you recall in which direction (towards the wheel or towards the belt) the assembly moved? Did you have to resort to heat? I have a good strong hot-air gun and could heat the frame away from the shaft area and hope for transfer towards it.

352663

Thanks for any further insights.

John

[John Baum]

Call me a slow learner...

I just carefully tapped on the 'belt end' of the lower drive shaft with my dead-blow hammer and the shaft slowly moved 'inwards' so I persisted and I now have the driveshaft with bearings attached in hand.

I had room between the bearing and the spacer to support the 'spacer side' of the 'wheel end' bearing on two lengths of 12 gauge angle iron resting on the opening of my vise and gently tapped the 'wheel end' of the shaft with my dead blow hammer. For good measure I added 2 drops of penetrating oil to the gap. I easily drove the shaft so that only a 1/4" protruded and used the bearing puller to complete the removal. I can see the wear on the shaft, ~0.01" in diameter where the inner ring of the bearing turned on the shaft.

352668

Is it worth the $31 + shipping to replace the shaft? I saw a post elsewhere where someone described using JBWeld to build out a worn shaft to fit a bearing. I don't have a lathe, but I do have a double compound vise for my drill press. I've used it to position a HSS lathe tool carefully and removed metal from rods chucked in the drill press. I also have some proper thickness brass shim stock.

The world changes. For years there was a King Bearing counter within 10 miles. Now it is eBay, hurry up and wait, wonder about the vendor. At least the needed bearing is listed and the price, with shipping, is about half that at Sears.

thanks

John

[Joe Kaufman]

John,

Install the snap ring on the shaft for the pulley end. Try to force the shaft assy and bearings out the operators side of the frame with a large hammer and wood protecting the pulley end of the shaft. If you need to use heat, don't heat the reinforcing webs as you show but heat the aluminum casting directly over the bearing. I would use a propane torch a couple of seconds on each of the 4 areas between the reinforcing webs, directly over the bearing. The aluminum will expand equally in all directions unless restrained. The increase in circumference will be much more than the increase in thickness. Be quick, it shouldn't take much heat. I don't remember having any difficulty removing the assembly from the frame - cold.

Your picture shows what I remember, a metal shielded bearing (won't stop dust entry) in all the dust. That bearing gave out on my saw. I replaced the two with 6302 RS-10 bearings. They are 6203 series with a 5/8 shaft size (-10) and rubber shields (RS). Manufacturers have slightly different numbering schemes for non-standard parts and they price accordingly. Monarch Bearing has a list price of about $10 each. A standard 6203 is less than $4. The bearing speed is fairly slow so the added drag of 4 rubber seals is not a concern.

A couple of years ago bearing suppliers were very positive on Nachi bearings (high quality, Japanese etc.) The last Nachi bearings I purchased a few months ago were Made in China. That doesn't mean they can't make quality bearings, however.....

When I suggested large hammer, if the assembly hasn't moved with a couple of hits, try the heat.

Joe

[Joe Kaufman]

You responded while my slow typing was in progress. If you plan to keep the saw I would replace the shaft. IMHO JBWeld is overrated structurally.

Might work if you could apply it, let it cure and then turn the OD down to 5/8".

I bought my saw in 1974 and use it almost daily now since retirement - 11 years. Never detention the blade except to change.

[Joe Kaufman]

I see a typing goof, 6203 series bearing, not 6302. Maybe a problem between brain and fingers.....

Anyway, glad you are on the way to a fix.

[John Baum]

Joe,

Thank you for the wealth of information you shared.

I can't quickly confirm which year, but I bought my saw in the early '70's, too. I see that the manual reads 'Printed in USA, 1-73.'

Before I saw your recent replies, I ordered a Nachi bearing on eBay; it cost $9.10 with shipping. I will try to remember to look at the workmanship critically when it arrives. If I decide I need more bearings, I will look into 6203RS bearings. I think the 'wheel end' bearing was installed wrong side out on my saw. The original bearings have a rubber seal on one face and not the other. My guess is that unsealed face was intended to face into the separator space where dust is not a problem. Perhaps an engineer even took the seal drag into account and wanted to minimize it.

At first I thought there were two different bearings on the shaft, even though Sears gave them the same part number in the break-out drawing. Now I see that the rubber sealed face number is 620310NSL and the metal enclosed one ends 620310Z on both bearings. It is the case that the bearing on the 'belt end' of the shaft was installed with the seal out to the world of dust and the metal face into the space enclosed by the spacer. The devil is in the details. Now the numbers make more sense to me. The bearing is a 6203, the 10 designates a 5/8" shaft size, and perhaps the NSL stands for 'neoprene seal?' The Z on the unsealed face is less clear.

It is interesting that the design engineer elected to have the key-way run the full length of the shaft even though keys are only needed at the ends to anchor the pulley and wheel in place. Perhaps it was less expensive to order shafting with a continuous keyway and cut it to length?

I know these were intended as 'lubricated for life' bearings. Would it be a mistake to put a drop of 10W40 synthetic oil on the metal enclosed face where the bearing turns? Would a different lubricant be even better? I even have high-temperature Dow silicone oil from the lab.

I think I will try the JBWeld technique and see what I can make of that approach before I order a new shaft.

Thank you for answering without my asking the question about keeping tension on the blade except to change it. I was wondering what was the best practice.

I'm retired, too. I got a 'brass parachute' in early 1997 just before my 57th birthday. I got to be head gardener, chief cook and bottle washer, housekeeper and laundryman for five years while my sweet wife kept working as a wage-slave.

Unlike you, I use my bandsaw only occasionally and I find I use my 10" Sears table saw less often, too. For ripping I use a guide like this one (http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/tools/reviews/a3602/4283497/) and my Bosch worm-drive circular saw. You can see where the cut is going to be and it makes a straighter cut than the Sears rip fence. I don't use glue, just screws. I have a set of different widths for different sized boards. When the guide edge gets roughed up, I move the thicker guide piece back a quarter inch and screw it down again. It works flawlessly if the finished work-piece is clamped under the guide. If the finished piece is the cut-off piece you need an allowance for the saw kerf.

I use a chop saw for most of my cross cuts. I find that if it is set up properly with a good square it is more accurate.

In the early years both my wife and I used the band saw a lot, making toys for the kids and for school sales. I did a lot of sanding with the sanding belt. All that dust cannot have been kind to the bearings.

I really appreciate your sharing your knowledge. I tried to 'mirror' it by including what I think makes sense from what I've seen.

Thanks again,

John

[John Baum]

My saw is back up and running.

I used the unsealed Nachi bearing I ordered. It looked decently made to my eyes.

I cleaned the driveshaft with mineral spirits and then acetone and isolated the section that was worn down by 0.01" and the key-way (see image in post 7) with masking tape and built up the shaft with Quicksteel epoxy putty (P/N 16002US) and let it cure a couple of days. I overestimated the capacity of my drill press chuck and had to resort to files and ultimately P2000 auto finishing paper to restore the OD of the shaft. It was straightforward to reinstall the bearing on the shaft using a scrap of hardwood with a 5/8" hole bored into it and careful application of the dead blow hammer and/or my vise.

If the bearing I installed lasts 44 years like the first one, I'm confident I won't be around to do the next replacement, but I know how to do it.

Thanks again to everyone for the pointers I needed to proceed.

John

[steven c newman]

Just dug this up..looking to replace the lower bearings on mine. #113.27350 saw. Sounds like I have a lot of work to do.....

[Lee Schierer]

Is it worth the $31 + shipping to replace the shaft? I saw a post elsewhere where someone described using JBWeld to build out a worn shaft to fit a bearing. I don't have a lathe, but I do have a double compound vise for my drill press. I've used it to position a HSS lathe tool carefully and removed metal from rods chucked in the drill press. I also have some proper thickness brass shim stock.

The world changes. For years there was a King Bearing counter within 10 miles. Now it is eBay, hurry up and wait, wonder about the vendor. At least the needed bearing is listed and the price, with shipping, is about half that at Sears.

thanks

John

You've already invested significant time getting the saw apart. Why do a quick fix that possibly will not be as good as a brand new part. That snap ring groove doesn't look too healthy either. If the JB Weld doesn't work or isn't concentric to the rest of the shaft you will have a wobble that won't help your saw perform well. You are investing in new bearings pay for the new shaft.

[Bill Dufour]

Z bearing designation means shielded not rubber sealed. Nachi is as good as any bearing made. I would replace both bearings as long as you have it all apart. Only takes two-three minutes extra.
I take the old bearings apart and grind a little off the outer race. use that to press in the new one. Heat then inner bore to red hot and allow to cool slowly. campfire,barbecue, propane torch. Then drill inner bore slightly oversize. use that to press in new bearing.
Bill D

[steven c newman]

OK, dug the parts out....was also missing one key stock.
388530
Blade side is "ok" but the belt side?
388531
Bearings seem to be good....shaft may be the problem
388532
Belt side on the mounting hole has a snap ring.....blade side has a pair of bolts. Did not see any sign of a groove for the snap ring, either.

May go to the TSC Store, and see IF they might have a shaft....and a bit of key stock. IF I can find that snapring pliers, I might be able to tear this down a bit more....

bearings are 6203 RS..

[Lee Schierer]

Belt side on the mounting hole has a snap ring.....blade side has a pair of bolts. Did not see any sign of a groove for the snap ring, either.

May go to the TSC Store, and see IF they might have a shaft....and a bit of key stock. IF I can find that snapring pliers, I might be able to tear this down a bit more....

bearings are 6203 RS..

McMaster-Carr has keyed shaft (https://www.mcmaster.com/#keyed-shafts/=1dgip6v) in various lengths and diameters for reasonable prices. Any machine shop can cut your snap ring groove for just a few dollars.

[steven c newman]

OK, here is what I have got...
388534
Blade side, no groove found..
388535
It uses these two bolts to hold the bearings in place ( may get a washer and add it under the bolts...
388536
A snap ring IS on the pulley side, the metal "cup" swings up and is held by three bolts..
388537
I did find my pliers..
388538
Both wheels used a key way piece..
388539388540
And each used one set screw. Will take the shaft assembly to the Tractor Supply store, and see what they say....
upper wheel's bearings are in great shape..
388541
Doesn't make a sound, and will coast until I stop it...no wiggles or noise. Needs a good clean up, though..

[steven c newman]

Ok..tried a Machine Shop I know about....can't seem to find when he is open.....Located the part online...need to save up the cash to order it. Bearings are fine. Shaft...not. Having trouble finding a snap ring plier that actually FITS the holes....even bought a new set today.....along with the key way stock to replace the missing one.

For now, I bought a washer, ID was just enough to go over the snap rings. Then ground the OD until the washer matched the oD of the bearings......bolts to hold both the bearings and the washer in place....can't really torque things down...aluminum body would strip out.

Also having motor issues....needed hand starts....give the wheels a spin, then hit the on switch. Finally, took the v belt off, and ran just the motor by itself...about 10 minutes or so....saw a few chunks of crud drop out....motor started running better.

Adjusted the wheel and the pulley....minimum tension on the blade....test run.....will do...for now. Worked on the table's locking bolt....so NOW I can even tilt the table and lock it. Locking arm was 90 degrees off from where it was supposed to be.


Saw came to me as FREE, just had to haul it home. Budget in the shop is such that I need to fix this saw, can't just go out and buy another...new or used...have to even save up to get the $40+ for the new shaft. When this saw IS running the way it is supposed to....it does everything I need to do. Have no need for 12" of resaw, nor a 3/4" wide blade......not enough room in the shop, to add a "riser" block, even if this saw could.

Will just get by, for now.....until I can save enough to order the new shaft...

[steven c newman]

A new shaft is on the way...will try to get by until it arrives

Air hose to the motor.....Still a hand start, taking less "cranks" now....taking the snap ring pliers back...and find better ones. Maybe one will actually FIT those small holes? All so far have been way too big.

388602
Washer in place. Can't torque things too much...Aluminum body, after all. Had the wheel on too far, had to back it out a bit, to let the blade run closer to the center..
388603
Same here...belt was rubbing the housing. Pulley also has a new key stock...old one was MIA.
388604
And this is the motor. Took the air hose and blew out a lot of dust, dirt, and general crud....will see how it goes. No "Magic Smoke" yet.

Will baby this along, until the new shaft gets here.....snap rings may get replaced in the process...

[steven c newman]

Was able to get a better "read" on the model Number....113.24350.....with the cast iron table. Hope I do not need to replace the motor, as well....maybe run the belt a tad looser?

[Lee Schierer]

[QUOTE=steven c newman;2825904Also having motor issues....needed hand starts....give the wheels a spin, then hit the on switch. Finally, took the v belt off, and ran just the motor by itself...about 10 minutes or so....saw a few chunks of crud drop out....motor started running better. [/QUOTE]

You may need to replace the capacitor on the motor. It should start on it's own.

[steven c newman]

May just replace the motor, too..
389114
The wire wheel thing is removable....Just needs a better cord. Oil filled bearings. frame seems to match...may need a different pulley to fit the shaft....this one has "flat" instead of a keyway. 1/2" shaft, instead of the 5/8" on the Craftsman motor....

389116389117389118389119
I don't think the cord will be too safe...
389120
Will see about a new one...

[steven c newman]

Missing a picture here, too?

Anyway, the new-in-the-bag shaft for the bandsaw just arrived today! May have to wait a few, until I am allowed to work in the shop again...next week is out. No cash, and the 18th-20th is for the Ablation stuff..then allow that huge hole in the leg to heal up...again. will be the third time they have gone up to the heart via that spot.....hope they use a different one, this time...

[steven c newman]

Bandsaw motor shaft is a 5/8" with keyway slot......"new" motor has a 1/2" shaft, with the flat...."D" shaped shaft.....Will try to find the correct pulley this coming weekend. Along with the new cord, and hopefully it has a ground wire. Have re-ground the tips on my snap ring pliers....might still get new rings.

Motor is a 1/2 horse, dual voltage, 1725 rpm. Hoping it rotates the correct direction. Bolt up to the bandsaw's stand looks like it will work. Just have to line things up during the installs

Had an issue last night, lower/drive wheel wants to "walk off" the end of the shaft......and, IF you slide it too far onto the shaft, it will bind. Maybe when I get the new shaft installed, I can see about that binding?

Will baby this along, until I can get a full day to work on the saw...with the parts I need on hand. A roll-around floor jack may get used, to remove one motor and install the other.

Haven't found the "Tracking Knob" on this saw, yet....113. 24350 saw.

[steven c newman]

Found a new three prong cord, that should work..
389525
Opened up the "box" to check on the wires..
389526
After pulling off about a 1/2 roll of tape ( so far!)

Appears they connected two wires to each side of the plug...
389527
Not sure what I'll find under there..
389528
or here...dug a bit more, as the tape wraps were loose...
389529
That don't look too good. I could wire nut each pair of motor wires to each side of the new cord? Need to get a conduit clamp where the wires leave the box.
Have also put a few dribbles of 3in1 oil down each tube. And, gave the shaft a few turns....

So....wire this back up? Suggestions? Motor is for both 110v and 220v .....all I have in the shop is 110...

Depending on what diameter pulley I need, price at TSC is ~ $11.99 to $16.99......thinking MAYBE a 3" should do the trick.....kind of hard right now, to measure the old one,....new one will be a 1/2" bore, no slot, 3" diameter. Costs more than the motor did, LOL....

Will dig into that mass of black tape a bit further.....may even find a couple wire nuts? May just use new, though. And some new tape.....

[steven c newman]

Talking to meself? Oh...well.

Removed the old cord...
389551
Underneath all that tape? was two wire nuts...way too large, and way too loose. Was a good thing they were taped up.
Went a little longer than the bare spots on each pair of wires. Found better wire nuts, and a ground lug...
389552
A self drilling screw, goes through the box, but NOT into the motor's case.
389553
Crimped the green wire, then installed. Still need to tape the wire nuts, more to keep them from rubbing against each other.
Also need a clamp for this opening, to hold the cord in place..
389554
Other than a cordless drill, to drive that screw..it was a "hand tool" project..
389555
May not be Kleins....but they did the job needed....

[steven c newman]

OK..decided last night to test drive this motor...Left it sitting right there on the table. Brought over an extension cord to plug the motor into ( and be able to unplug in a hurry, if need be)

Motor made a little burp-like sound.....and nothing else in the way of noise.....put a hand on the motor's case..yep, running at full speed. There is a flat on the shaft....could not see it...spin was going good.

As it wound down ( after I pulled the plug) I checked which wat the shaft was turning.......it was going the correct direction I need for the bandsaw!

So far,....have invested $3 for the motor...$0 for the cord. Needs a $12 pulley bought, and a Romex wire clamp for where the cord comes out of the box. Sounds like a win, to me.

Tried it a couple more times....case of the motor did not even get warm....might just work out.

[Joe Kaufman]

Haven't found the "Tracking Knob" on this saw, yet....113. 24350 saw.

No tracking knob. Tracking is adjusted with the slotted screw in the end of the shaft for the top wheel. Your picture - IMG_4780, the screw head is hidden under the sawdust.

Bandsaw manual page 18 - https://www.manualslib.com/manual/480641/Craftsman-113-24201.html?page=8#manual

[steven c newman]

I'll look it over.

Unable to find any "Romex Clamp" like thing, that actually fits the opening for the cord......went back in, and taped it all down, until nothing touches a thing. Once the motor is hung onto the bandsaw, I'll make a strain relief with a few wire/cable ties. May see about a rubber gasket of some sort to seal the hole.

May work on the shaft, first....then when I am able, I can switch out motors.

[steven c newman]

Can't do a whole lot, right now......have a small "creek" going across the shop floor.....had a "Gulley Washer" come through town.....basement where the shop is....has a ground water problem in heavy rain storms...

Will update when things dry out a bit...(at least the drain worked great...)

[steven c newman]

Modified the top of my bench....for a little while...
390104
Didn't want anything to roll away and hide...
390105
Old shaft was torn down...had rings, key stock and a few other things that didn't need to roll away
390106
Bearings looked good, spacer did too...rings will be good for now....the shaft?
390107
Laying beside it's replacement...even the keyways were too worn to hold the keys in place....took a while, but got things back together
390108
Then installed in the saw..
390109
Wheels were installed....1/4" blade added...AFTER I ran just the wheels for a bit...then rechecked the set screws to make sure they were tight
390110
Haven't swapped out the motors, yet. The Craftsman one is starting right up, no issues...for now.
390111
This may have been the cause of a lot of the troubles?

I still may swap out the motors...no rush right now...