New hand tool guy with oil stone questions

[Jeff Zihlman]

Hi all, I recently started down the hand tool path and made the decision to use oil stones as my sharpening medium. I have a medium india and a hard black arkansas stone. I expected to spend a little more time sharpening with the oil stones but am wondering what's "typical". It feels like I spend a lot of time to just get to the decently sharp stage. For those experienced oil stone users out there, how much time do you spend sharpening? For example, assuming you had a 3/4" chisel (01 steel) that was over due on sharpening..how long would you spend getting this back to sharp?
Also, what do you like to do for maintenance? Do you need to regularly wash the stones to prevent glazing?
Thanks a lot for the help! Much appreciated

[Kees Heiden]

A few minutes. And I don't do stone maintenance except wiping clean after use.

I have a fine India, a washita and a translucent Arkansas. Followed by a strop.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Jeff and welcome to the Creek.

I am one who uses both water stones and oilstones. My india stone is a fine and doesn't cut fast enough for my liking. A softer arkansas stone like a washita helps to get more metal removed if a blade is really in need of honing. If you have a grinder then the work is a lot less. Sandpaper can also be used for the preliminary work. Old worn blades that come my way are usually run over some 320 grit paper if they aren't too bad. If they are in real bad shape they may even get a coarser grit.

One of the things to make sharpening quicker and easier is to get to the stones before the edge gets overly worn.

Stewie Simpson has posted on oilstone maintenance:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?249615-Salmen-Master-Oil-Stone

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

Of course total sharpening time depends on the missery you need to take care off! If you have been cutting nails with your chisles after neglecting them for a couple of years, then it sure takes me more then a couple of minutes too! I use the grinder for stuff like that!

Jim, my fine India is a whole lot faster then my Washita! But mine is still relatively new. If it has slown down a lot I suppose a good dressing of the surface would be needed.

[Jeff Zihlman]

Thanks guys! Sometimes I think I need to replace my india stone with something else or a different india. I also debate whether or not I need a stone between the india and the black arkansas. Or something before the india.

Jim- I'm curious, what situations lead you to use the water stones and not the oil stones? Thanks for the link, that stone of Stewies is one beautiful stone.

Kees- do you cycle through all 3 stones each time? How do you dress your surfaces? Some of the earlier posts I read were several years ago from you. Nice to hear you kept with the oil stones. Good reminder on the strop as well. What part of the Netherlands are you from? I spent a couple of months sorting lumber in a warehouse near Rotterdam in the mid 90's.

[Stewie Simpson]

Jeff; the following link shows 2 more of my sharpening stones, and the storage boxes I made for them. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?248858-Sharpening-stone-box&highlight=

Stewie;

[Warren Mickley]

I spend about 70 seconds sharpening a 3/4 inch chisel. I never use a grinding wheel and I never use "micro bevels" or "secondary bevels". After grinding on a flat coarse stone I use Washita and soft Arkansas and sometimes hard black Arkansas. This is followed by a clean dry strop. I do not touch up between sharpenings; it is not very much more work to get rid of the wear on the edge and do a full sharpening. I think sometimes stropping between sharpenings might be helpful for beginners who mangle the edge a more than an experienced user.

In your case, Jeff, I would have recommended a Washita or a soft Arkansas instead of a Black Arkansas, although if your black stone is coarsely milled it will act like a coarser stone for a while. You really want a stone that eliminates the scratches from the coarse stone, not just polishing the tops of the ridges. With a medium India and a soft Arkansas I think you should aim for about 3 minutes sharpening. If it takes longer you are letting the chisel get too bad, either dull or beat up.

Honing oil is thick enough that the iron particles are suspended; in that case a stone can go for years without being cleaned. Dirty oil comes off the tool when you wipe and you add clean oil to the stone as needed. If you use a light oil you will have to clean the stone periodically.

[Kees Heiden]

Hi Jeff,

Usually I use all three oilstones, but i think I could leave out the Washita if I only use the Arkansas at the very edge (lifted up a little). On morticing chisels I skip the Arkansas stone.

My stones are reasonably flat. I have flattened the Washita when I bought it, I think with sandpaper? The Arkansas is a vintage stone, butnot very old, it wasn't dirty, it doesn't become dirty either! I like how it polishes and works the wire edge, more then how fast or slow it is. The fine India is only half a year old and still very agressive. I bought it because i didn't like the slow speed of the Washita. The India raises a wire edge in no time!

BTW, I use a little Autosol compound on my strop. At least it gives a nice shine to the edge :)

I work in Rotterdam too! In the large academic hospital. But I live in Leiden, nice small old town.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I think sometimes stropping between sharpenings might be helpful for beginners who mangle the edge a more than an experienced user.


Warren, any comments on what specifically more experienced users do differently? I have become much more deliberate about how I use both chisels and planes over the years to try to keep the edge sharper longer, but would be very interested in any advice you have.

Nick

[Malcolm Schweizer]

In your situation, and I am making an assumption here that you don't want to go out and buy an expensive stone, I would set the bevel on sandpaper and then move to the oil stones to hone it. Your description suggests that your chisel is beyond just touching up, hence my suggestion. Once it's sharp then normal
maintenance and not waiting too long to sharpen it can be done on just the oil stones.

[Warren Mickley]

Warren, any comments on what specifically more experienced users do differently? I have become much more deliberate about how I use both chisels and planes over the years to try to keep the edge sharper longer, but would be very interested in any advice you have.


Some things are pretty subtle, like how you retract a chisel from a cut, or how you use a chisel to remove waste after the cut is finished. Some twist or scrape or lever without even thinking about it. One thing that is not subtle: when using a mallet, avoid holding the chisel at the bevel rather than the handle. Holding the handle keeps the chisel from flopping around when it is hit.

There is a lot more to woodworking than just great hand tool technique. Some well experienced workers are easier on tools than others.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Warren:

Thanks for the reply. I had not noticed any significant difference depending on how I hold the chisel for chopping, so will pay more attention to that, and appreciate the pointer. It did take a while to dawn on me, but the scraping, levering, and so on are things I realized a while ago were not worth it (except for my heavy English mortise chisels, which seem to be able to take it).

Nick

[Jeff Zihlman]

Nick - It's hard to not pry "just a little" :)

[Jeff Zihlman]

Warren - Thanks for the reply. I seem to be way past either 70 seconds or the 3 minutes you mentioned. I will look into a Washita. Good info on the honing oil, I was a little confused on if there is a need for regularly cleaning oils stones or not.

[Jeff Zihlman]

Stewie,

That Welsh Grecian stone is a real beauty! The storage boxes as well. Thanks for sharing!!

[Jeff Zihlman]

Malcom - Thanks for the reply! If I were to go looking for an expensive stone what would you suggest? Very intuitive..sometimes my irons do get pretty far gone:) I have been using my jack to mill up some reclaimed beams for use in a work bench. Those times, I know the irons have been beat up pretty well and will take awhile to work back.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim- I'm curious, what situations lead you to use the water stones and not the oil stones?

My oilstones didn't seem to be doing the job. In my case this was when a lot of previously owned tools were being acquired. A Veritas® Mk.II Power Sharpening system was purchased and a couple of waterstones were also bought. The waterstones cut a lot faster than the oilstones. After learning a bit more about sharpening with the water stones my ability to get an edge with the oilstones improved.

My current shop isn't heated. In the winter months it gets below freezing which means the water stones sit dry until spring. It is in my nature to accumulate things. Currently my oilstone arsenal is quite varied but mostly only a few are used on plane and chisel blades. A soft stone, a hard arkansas, a translucent arkansas and a piece of jasper. The jasper is for finishing/polishing. Afterwards the blade may be stropped.


Malcom - Thanks for the reply! If I were to go looking for an expensive stone what would you suggest? Very intuitive..sometimes my irons do get pretty far gone:) I have been using my jack to mill up some reclaimed beams for use in a work bench. Those times, I know the irons have been beat up pretty well and will take awhile to work back.

You may find it easier to take a break and hone the blade before it gets to the point of "having been beat up pretty well and will take awhile to work back." Another option would be to have multiple blade sets and change it out during the day.

jtk