Lee Valley now has the Parf Guide system for making Festool 96mm x 20mm tops

[Van Huskey]

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=75354&cat=51&ap=1


Up until now the only way to get it in the US was ordering from Axminster in the UK. It makes very accurate 96mm x 20mm grids like the MFT. The reviews are excellent as long as you follow the instructions.

[Ben Rivel]

Huh, this one one of the reasons I got the LR 32 system. This might be a better solution though. Have to look a bit more into it.

LINK (http://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system-102278) to the manufacturers page in case anyone is interested.

LINK (http://knowledge.axminster.co.uk/workshop/how-to-build-a-power-tool-table-part-3/) to instructions on how to use the system.

[Van Huskey]

The key to Peter's system is it makes sure all the holes are "perfectly" parallel and square to each other.

He has done 7 or 8 videos including a 4 cut test to show how accurate the hole system is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5usysrkgQBo&t=304s

If you have access to a CNC large enough to drill the top size you want it isn't very useful.

[Ben Rivel]

Huh, well this is the first Ive seen of it. Watching Peter's videos on it now.

[Andy Giddings]

Both approaches work well, obviously the LR has other uses. Another way to make a custom table is just get a CNC machined MFT from eBay or Festool, clamp it to your blank as a template and use a router with a top mounted bearing bit to make the holes in the blank. When you want a bigger table, just use tight fitting 20mm dogs in the holes made to extend either way. Its about the same cost as the Parf System

[Robb White]

Figures just bought the system 2 weeks ago would of saved ton in shipping.

-Rob

[Ben Rivel]

How are they going to handle replacement 20mm bits. The bit it comes with sounds kinda special, how are we going to get new ones in the US?

[Chris Padilla]

Ben,

Searching on 20 mm forstner pops up a lot of choices from a couple bucks to 10s of bucks.

[Van Huskey]

Ben,

Searching on 20 mm forstner pops up a lot of choices from a couple bucks to 10s of bucks.

Unfortunately, not that simple it is indeed "special" in that the diameter of the shaft fits the guide correctly and has a 3mm pilot to center perfectly on the 3mm guide holes.

To Ben, the cutter is carbide so it will last quite a while but I imagine Lee Valley will ultimately carry them if not one can get them from Axminster. Axminster is really easy to deal with and they actually have an export team to deal with non-UK orders. The only issue is cutting down the shipping costs for the system. FOGgers have been buying them from Axminster since they released it.

[Ben Rivel]

Unfortunately, not that simple it is indeed "special" in that the diameter of the shaft fits the guide correctly and has a 3mm pilot to center perfectly on the 3mm guide holes.

To Ben, the cutter is carbide so it will last quite a while but I imagine Lee Valley will ultimately carry them if not one can get them from Axminster. Axminster is really easy to deal with and they actually have an export team to deal with non-UK orders. The only issue is cutting down the shipping costs for the system. FOGgers have been buying them from Axminster since they released it. Hope youre right and hope its not crazy expensive along with crazy expensive shipping. That would really turn me off to this system. I hate high priced consumables.

[Van Huskey]

Hope youre right and hope its not crazy expensive along with crazy expensive shipping. That would really turn me off to this system. I hate high priced consumables.


I think they are 28 (edit 20 w/o VAT) pounds and Axminsters shipping is usually reasonable, I have ordered some stuff from them. The issue with the system is it is in a long tube so shipping was expensive (but not enough to keep a lot of people from buying it) but this makes the shipping more manageable and quicker though Axminster is very quick. In the end I can't see using more than one or two bits in a lifetime unless you make a new work surface constantly or want to do all the walls in your shop in 96 x 20. :D

[David J Blackburn]

I bought it from axminster about a month ago and with shipping it was about 135 pounds, which is right now about $169, which is what it costs at Lee Valley. (I also bought a bandsaw buddy which was another 20 pounds.)

Of course, right now at axminster, it's 129 pounds without shipping, so it's obviously gone up in price.

[Van Huskey]

Of course, right now at axminster, it's 129 pounds without shipping, so it's obviously gone up in price.

For US buyers it is $108 pounds since we don't pay UK VAT.

[Andy Giddings]

As the 20mm bit is carbide tipped, I would have thought unless you're going into production of MFT tables, it would last a good while.

[Ben Rivel]

For US buyers it is $108 pounds since we don't pay UK VAT.Wait, so doesnt that make it cheaper to buy it from the UK?

[Andy Giddings]

108 UK Pounds = 135USD + shipping from the UK which can be pricey (as per David's post above - approx. 34USD). Lee Valley is 169USD + shipping and tax so yes cheaper depending on UK ship cost. Not sure about any US customs broker charges. Certainly worth talking to Axminster

[Van Huskey]

Wait, so doesnt that make it cheaper to buy it from the UK?


As noted when all is said and done the price won't be much different, some people just seem to avoid international purchases (or buy Lee Valley gift cards on Black Friday for 15% off). I don't really get avoiding international purchases, I buy 70+% of my Festool accessories from the UK and Germany (save an average of 40%). It helps the dollar is currently strong but the tide has started shifting in the last few days with the pound at least.

[David J Blackburn]

What I paid (including shipping from UK) is less than what it would cost if I were to buy it now from LV. I mean, I bet you'll get it faster from LV, though. Took about 10 days, I think, to get mine from Axminster.

[Rich Riddle]

It certainly looks tedious to make a top with that jig. Interesting, yet tedious.

[Andy Giddings]

Tedious with either the LR32 or Parf system approach, I would think - but its not something you are doing frequently

[Peter Kuhlman]

Think I will stay with my plan of just purchasing replacement MFT tops when needed. Available in a couple sizes. They are priced reasonably when considering the cost of machining it seems to me. Oh and yes I am lazy!. ;)

[Van Huskey]

Think I will stay with my plan of just purchasing replacement MFT tops when needed. Available in a couple sizes. They are priced reasonably when considering the cost of machining it seems to me. Oh and yes I am lazy!. ;)

Most don't buy it to make replacement tops, it is usually used to make work surfaces in odd sizes or large sizes.

It isn't very tedious, once you figure it out, it is really more like busy work, repetitive but mindless.

[Ben Rivel]

Yea its for making your own custom tops with holes compatible with Festools MFT top hole pattern. For the MFT yea Id just buy a new top too. But I dont like the MFT, so Im more interested in building my own table but still keeping it compatible with any/all Festool hole patterned accessories.

[Rodger Kanis]

Or for a different way using pegboard as a guide, this jig:

http://woodrave.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

This assumes you have a router and the necessary router bit for the size dog hole you want. (MFT is 20mm) The Festool bit is $63 and excellent. I think Bosch or Freud makes one as well. If you bought the jig and the Festool bit (note 8mm shank so you'll need a 1/2" to 8mm or 5/16 reducer) you'll be in for a little over $100.

It would only be as accurate as the pegboard, of course.


http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=75354&cat=51&ap=1
Up until now the only way to get it in the US was ordering from Axminster in the UK. It makes very accurate 96mm x 20mm grids like the MFT. The reviews are excellent as long as you follow the instructions.

[Hoang N Nguyen]

I'm so glad my company has a 10'x30' CNC machine. I've had the shop guys make me a few MFT style tops in the past. Just program and push start to go.

[Edwin Santos]

As noted when all is said and done the price won't be much different, some people just seem to avoid international purchases (or buy Lee Valley gift cards on Black Friday for 15% off). I don't really get avoiding international purchases, I buy 70+% of my Festool accessories from the UK and Germany (save an average of 40%). It helps the dollar is currently strong but the tide has started shifting in the last few days with the pound at least.

Hi, I have looked into buying some Festool power tools and a Lamello biscuit jointer from the UK. In the case of the biscuit joiner, there was a substantial savings, but I could not work around the 230V issue. In the case of the Domino, you can get it in 110V but the plug style would be UK so you would have to use an adapter, probably not a big deal where the voltage is correct. However the Festool ROS was only available in 230V.

Any suggestions on how to overcome these hurdles, or have you been mainly buying accessories where voltage is not an issue? The pound crash after the Brexit vote has these prices a better deal than the domestic ones, not sure how long that will last though. Thanks

[guy laizure]

I still have not got around to making a workbench top.May have to order one .

[Van Huskey]

Hi, I have looked into buying some Festool power tools and a Lamello biscuit jointer from the UK. In the case of the biscuit joiner, there was a substantial savings, but I could not work around the 230V issue. In the case of the Domino, you can get it in 110V but the plug style would be UK so you would have to use an adapter, probably not a big deal where the voltage is correct. However the Festool ROS was only available in 230V.

Any suggestions on how to overcome these hurdles, or have you been mainly buying accessories where voltage is not an issue? The pound crash after the Brexit vote has these prices a better deal than the domestic ones, not sure how long that will last though. Thanks

I have only bought accessories from across the pond. There is significant info about using the power tools on FOG, the 230V tools run fine on 240V 60hz and those that use them onsite often have transformers. The main draw for UK and EU Festool power tools is that so many are NAINA (not available in North America). If it is available here most just pay the money (like I did) since not only do you have warranty issues you have the issue of parts availability.

[Andy Giddings]

Van, would you mind sharing some links to the best sources you've found for the Festool accessories?

[Ben Rivel]

What Festool products are you guys after from the UK that run on 230V that you cant get here in the US in a 110V version?

[Van Huskey]

Van, would you mind sharing some links to the best sources you've found for the Festool accessories?


The best places I have found are Amazon UK and DE. I only buy items sold by Amazon since the shipping is, cheap, quick and no issues. Note all items are shipped to the US but a lot are, you have to check both sites. It is best to order as much as you can at once to spread the shipping costs. My most recent purchases have been vac hoses, empty Systainers, abrasive Systainers, Domino assortments and some other odds and ends. The Domino assortments are stupid cheap compared to what we pay.

[Ben Rivel]

I have bought many things including Festool products from Amazon UK as well.

[Andy Giddings]

Thanks Van, Ben

[Andy Giddings]

For those of you wondering whether Axminster in the UK is cheaper than Lee Valley - I ordered a Parf System, and a pair of the Veritas Dogs large and small. Difference between the two with everything included is about $16 in favor of Axminster. No tax from Lee Valley and no VAT from Axminster

[Edwin Santos]

For those of you wondering whether Axminster in the UK is cheaper than Lee Valley - I ordered a Parf System, and a pair of the Veritas Dogs large and small. Difference between the two with everything included is about $16 in favor of Axminster. No tax from Lee Valley and no VAT from Axminster

Thanks for sharing your experience Andy. Was the time in transit any issue?

[Van Huskey]

Thanks for sharing your experience Andy. Was the time in transit any issue?


From what I have seen it is about 10 days from Axminster, that also depends on which side of the US you live on.

[Andy Giddings]

Thanks for sharing your experience Andy. Was the time in transit any issue?
Don't know yet, Edwin. Shouldn't be as I've ordered from Europe before. As Van indicates, 10 days is typical

[Andy Giddings]

For those of you that want to go the LR32 route, I would recommend buying from Amazon UK - cost delivered to Texas in total is $376 for a 5 day delivery service, compared to $495 from Amazon US (this is for the Festool 584100 LR 32 Hole Drilling Set In Systainer 1)

[Ben Rivel]

For those of you that want to go the LR32 route, I would recommend buying from Amazon UK - cost delivered to Texas in total is $376 for a 5 day delivery service, compared to $495 from Amazon US (this is for the Festool 584100 LR 32 Hole Drilling Set In Systainer 1)NICE! Excellent find!