CNC kits

[Ron Hampe]

I'm 63 and looking to get into something new for when I retire.

I feel that I have a fairly well equipped home shop (unisaw, panel saw, shaper, horizontal & vertical router tables, planers, drum sander etc.) and think that adding a cnc, laser or both would be the way to go. The folks on the laser forum suggested cnc would be a better fit so here I am.

I'll likely go with Nema 34, but after looking at the kit prices, I can't see any good reason to spend a fortune on a pre-built name brand and I don't want anything made in China. Fine Line Automation looks good and they are just 4 hours away. Can you recommend any other well built sources right here in the USA?

Which is better - linear screw or rack & pinion and shouldn't there be a means to keep either of these dust free or is having dust collection adequate? Also do you keep the unit covered when its not in use? I have a dust collector but it doesn't catch it all.

Space is currently limited and the largest I could go would be either 2' x 4' or possible 4' x 4'. I would actually prefer a 2' x 6' or 8' and suspect I can do that with longer rails. Anything larger will have to wait until I sell my business which will free up a large garage.

Thanks

[Bob Falk]

Ron,
I am in the same boat as you (and about the same age (62) and with a full hobby shop as well). I had been thinking about a 2x4 or 4x4 CNC. I am interested in a turnkey system since I am more interested in using the machine rather than building it. I am also limited in space and would prefer an "expandable" CNC when needed. I had been looking closely at Camasters Stinger, but am also enamored by Shopbot's Buddy, which has a Powerstick system that allows you to expand the length of your work table. I am anxious to hear the feedback you receive. Cheers, bob

[William Adams]

Carbide 3D does a line of machines which are made in the U.S. (ob. discl. I used to be an inveterate volunteer, then freelanced, and now work as part-time off-site tech support).

- Nomad 883 Pro --- small enclosed machine with an 8"x8"x3" work area --- typically used for non-ferrous metals and intricate 3D wood and plastic parts, esp. prototyping --- uses a lead screw

- Shapeoko 3 --- available in 3 sizes, stock (~16" x ~16" x ~3" work area), XL (~16" x ~33" work area) and XXL (~33" x 33") --- uses belts.

Lead screws are prone to whipping at large sizes unless designed to prevent that, rack and pinion adds to expense --- the belts the Shapeoko line uses are a cost-saving compromise which work surprisingly well.

The Nomad includes MeshCAM, a nice 3D CAM package, all of the machines allow one to use Carbide Create, a CAD/CAM tool which will import a DXF or SVG and do 2.5D designs, and Carbide Motion which is used to communicate with and control the machines.

Both of the machines (and most of the hobby machines) use Grbl, an opensource program for G-code, which is the industry-standard language for controlling machines. Grbl is intentionally limited, intended only for use with CAD/CAM generated G-code, but works amazingly well for the size processor it runs on. Pretty much any CAD/CAM app can be used with them, and the Shapeoko wiki makes an effort to list them all.

I also volunteer on the subreddit /r/hobbycnc where there is a list of CNC machines on a wiki page.

The Nomad is incredibly nifty (I just got one and have been working on tutorials and stuff w/ it), and I think the Shapeoko 3 line represents the sweet spot in terms of price / performance, but I am cannot be considered to be impartial. Glad to answer any questions you have! Here, or in a PM.

Here's a project which I did on my Shapeoko 3 a while back, which would be even easier on the Nomad:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?235456-Locking-Register-Calipers-after-H-O-Studley

[Ross Moshinsky]

I was typing something so I'll do a quick summary.

1. R&P vs Ball screws have been discussed to death. General consensus is R&P is the best bang for the buck. Lose a little accuracy but they're cheaper, faster, and more dust friendly.

2. If you're just doing this for fun, you might be able to get away with NEMA23 motors which will save a decent chunk of change.

3. Buy a Chinese spindle. A 3.25HP router is equivalent to a 1hp Spindle. When you add up all the costs, the spindle is worth the extra few bucks.

4. I wouldn't recommend FLA based on their past. Several years ago they were completely unreliable. They may be more reliable now but best I can tell they're still using CNC RouterParts basic rail system.

5. If you're looking for a better than decent kit, CNC Router Parts is arguably the best option. They have 3 different rails systems. The basic/original is cold rolled steel and skate bearings. It works but is less than industrial. They offer a V-rail setup that they have basically phased out. Not sure why but their new Pro with the real profile linear rail seems to be worth the extra money.

6. Don't forget to add up all the costs. The machine is only a portion of the costs. When you add in the control PC, software, dust collection, bits, wire management, etc it adds up to a decent chunk of change.

7. The base is important. Weight and rigidity makes a difference in cut quality and speed.

[David Falkner]

I'm the same age and have limited space but went with the Fine Line Automation Saturn 2x4 and posted the build here - 2nd Build (first) - CNC Router (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?245338-2nd-Build-(first)-CNC-Router). I can tell you it is a very solid and rigid machine.

[Ron Hampe]

Thanks but don't want anything that small.

[Ron Hampe]

I have dust collection piped thru my shop, an extra computer and CorelDraw X4. Also have everything I need to fabricate a base out of angle, etc. and a sheet metal shop to make the control cabinets. I know of several companies selling extruded aluminum and may seriously consider building the base & gantry then buying the motion parts, wire management, R & P, spindle etc. Also have a lot of 1/2" Whiteside and Freud bits that may work.

[Ron Hampe]

What can you tell me about the ones Baileigh sells. The reviews are excellent and they have decent prices.

[Keith Outten]

Ron,

I own three Baileigh machines but not their CNC Router. Although Baileigh is a bit on the high side price wise they make very nice machines. Obviously they are imported but someone at their shop must be checking and adjusting their machines before they ship. All three of my Baileigh machines came to me in perfect condition, adjusted and ready to run.

I haven't seen any information about their CNC Router or any details about their control system which would be of primary interest to me if I was considering their router. The machine itself I would expect to be the same quality as the ones I own now. If you are serious about their router call Shane Henderson for information. Shane was their contact representative here when they were a sponsor.
.

[David Falkner]

Thanks but don't want anything that small.

You mentioned 2x4 or 4x4; he offers a 4x4 so that's why I referenced my build.

[William Adams]

I believe the too small was directed at me --- I didn't catch that it was a hard requirement in his first message, mea culpa, and thought maybe the machines would be of interest to Bob Falk (second poster).

Even if the machines are too small, the wiki / community documentation may be of interest, what isn't related to working around limits in machine size/rigidity should apply to any machine.

[Jerome Stanek]

The Shopbot buddy comes in 32 wide and you can get different power sticks

[David Falkner]

I believe the too small was directed at me --- I didn't catch that it was a hard requirement in his first message, mea culpa, and thought maybe the machines would be of interest to Bob Falk (second poster).

Even if the machines are too small, the wiki / community documentation may be of interest, what isn't related to working around limits in machine size/rigidity should apply to any machine.

Ah, my bad... There was no 'quote' included and since it came right after my post I read it differently.

[Ron Hampe]

Sorry not used to posting on this type of forum. I'll be sure to direct the replies from now on.

[Ron Hampe]

I'm the same age and have limited space but went with the Fine Line Automation Saturn 2x4 and posted the build here - 2nd Build (first) - CNC Router (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?245338-2nd-Build-(first)-CNC-Router). I can tell you it is a very solid and rigid machine.
How long have you had yours and have you had any problems with it?

[David Falkner]

How long have you had yours and have you had any problems with it?

We took delivery of the frame in July and I took a couple of months to design and build the electronics. I think it was October that I first fired it up to run programs. Yes, very pleased; it is a very rigid and accurate machine. No real problems but since I got the prototype of this model there have already been some upgrades and improvements, some of which came by from my feedback to Nate. If we had room I'd get a 4x4 in a heartbeat although I don't know why - I haven't exceeded the size of this one yet! LOL!

[ed vitanovec]

I bought the Fine Line Automation Saturn 4 x 4, just the frame. It is a very rigid machine and priced right. I have not set it up yet or bought any electronics for it. I would recommend the 2 x 4 or 4 x 4.

[Rodger MacMunn]

Have you checked out Pilot Pro CNC ..... they're in Oregon & offer kits as well as assembled machines...

[Ron Hampe]

Have you checked out Pilot Pro CNC ..... they're in Oregon & offer kits as well as assembled machines...

That's nice too! Do you have one?

[Keith Westfall]

I got one of these when I started. Didn't know anything about CNC (and still not a lot!) but have been happy with the Meteor I got...

www.probotix.com

[Tony Leonard]

I'm no expert, so I can't offer any suggestions about what works best. In my research, I red a lot of support forums. One of the things I liked about CNCRouterParts was that were very few posts about issues with their design or parts. I went with their Standard 24x48 machine and a Bosch router (already had that one). I have been pretty happy with the machine. I am still learning and making all the rookie mistakes. I just got mine running back in August I think. For reference, I make all kinds of stuff. Mostly wood (furniture), but I am interested in cutting some Al and brass soon. I have made circuit boards, cut cardboard with a Donek drag knife, acrylic, etc. Their web site is more informative than I could be. Worth a look. And as someone else suggested, the total cost is a LOT more than the machine. I have a small fortune wrapped up in this thing! The Mach3 and Vetrics software they suggest is not that hard to learn. I have already written a bunch of my own scripts/programs in Mach3 and added custom buttons. VCarve pro is a not the best for drawing (I like traditional CAD software better), but it is a nice piece of software. I import a lot of my DXF files. Oh, and dust collection is a big plus!

Oh, I got the NEMA 23 kit. It has plowed through anything and everything so far (even an aluminum clamp, but don't tell anybody.)



Tony

[Steve Peterson]

Ron,

You mention CNC kit in your original message, but I would recommend buying a complete system. I bought a kit of Ebay about 15 years ago for casual use. I suspect that I have spent more time building and enhancing the machine than actually cutting anything. I enjoy tinkering and am still quite pleased with my system.

It is built from 8020 aluminum rails with a 3'x4' footprint and a 22"x32"x5" work area. The X axis uses 2 nema23 motors and the Y axis uses a single motor. The original design had acme screws and could get up to 50 IPM with 3A unipolar controllers. I would occasionally lose some steps and the job would crash. I replaced the acme screws with Chinese ballscrews and can easily get over 100 IPM with less than 0.001" backlash. Even if you bought a system that was made in the USA, there would likely be a large portion of the components that are sourced from China. Made in the USA ballscrews would probably cost $1000 more, so you have to decide if that is worth it to you. I agree that it would be nice to have the frame built (or at least assembled) in the USA.

My longest rail has a 42" long ballscrew. You might be forced to use a rack and pinion if you want an 8' rail.

Steve

[John A langley]

355796Plus one for the probotix I bought the nebula been running it for a little over year the customer service is excellent

[Robert Bonenfant]

Check these guys out - Laguna Tools - https://lagunatools.com/ - Im amazed with their equipment, we bought one of there routers and started switching all of shop equipment to there brand. We needed to upgrade a few of our tools because they are too small for our shop now. The biggest selling point for me is customer support - If you have a problem they are on the phone with you within a few hours (Or atleast with me lol). We have worked with several companies that either dont respond or take 2- 3 days between emails and my shop cant run like that. Every day your waiting for parts or service help is time your lossing money. We needed to upgrade a part on one of our machines and within 2 hours - they found the part we needed and had it shipped.
China Builds many of the CNC Machines but you have to find a good usa brand that sells and services them.

[Rodger MacMunn]

No Ron, I have a CAMaster MiniCobra. But, IF I was looking for a kit, I'd likely go with Pilot Pro..

[Art Mann]

China Builds many of the CNC Machines but you have to find a good usa brand that sells and services them.

I liked the looks of the Laguna machine but I would prefer to be able to talk directly to the design engineer for the machine or the technician who built it. That is the kind of service I got from Camaster. I am fortunate to be able to drive over to their shop if needed. I don't think you could do that with the Laguna brand machine unless you speak Mandarin. From what I have experienced, I would get the same thing from CNCRP.

[Wes Grass]

We have 2 from CNCRP. Both configured as 4 x 16. The newer one has the linear guides and the spindle they sell. Both huge improvements over the older one which has the v rollers and a router motor.

The newer one is currently set up with the gantry elevated to 19" above the table to profile some large 3d pieces. It has 15" of Z travel. It's doing a pretty good job in a >15" stack of Trupan with a 1/2" endmill hanging 6-3/4" out of the collet. I'm running it 1/4" deep and a .150 stepover at about 110 ipm and 8k rpm. Can go faster and deeper but it isn't worth the risk of the tool pulling out. Had a few deeper spots to plow through and it didn't complain too much. Makes a bit of noise plunging through the excess epoxy at 40 ipm though.

I never would have thought we'd get away with this, so I'm pretty happy with how things are going.

[Adam Merritt]

I've been looking to build a CNC lately and have really come to like the "Open Builds Ox CNC design" (http://www.openbuilds.com/builds/openbuilds-ox-cnc-machine.341/). You can buy a complete kit ready to assemble (http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine) or build your own. My current idea is a hybrid of the basic Ox CNC, the Ox-Metal CNC (using ballscrews instead of timing belt), and the Ox Heavy Duty (more reinforced). I've found what looks to be some great deals from Automation Overstock (http://www.automation-overstock.com/)on C5 ballscrews that allow me to have some really accurate part at prices that were in my range. I haven't bought them yet, but it seems like a good deal. I'm still a ways off from my build (just bought a bunch of other tools, so I need to save some money before I buy it), but I've been learning all I can for now.