Wooden plane questions

[Bill Antonacchio]

Hi to all,

I just purchased this wooden coffin plane locally. I was wondering if anybody could help me out with some of my questions about the plane?

I don't know anything about planes in general and wooden planes in particular so any help would be great.

1. What type of wood do you think it is made from?
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2. I can't find any glue lines on the sides to indicate that is was made ala James Krenov's book "The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking" that I borrowed from the library.
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3. How was the interior hollowing done, specifically how do you locate the correct postions to drill and/or chisel out the angle for the iron and chipper? The finish on the angled parts and the interior work is really fine.
4. Should I leave this plane body alone and just use it and base my attempts to make my own plane upon this design and size or is there a better way to approach making my own plane? I have read Krenov's chapter on planes and realize there is a lot to it but everybody has to start somewhere.
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5. Is this iron and chipper any good? I have not tried to use the plane, when I got it home I did what I do to everything I get, I took it apart. Now the sawdust, dirt and whatever is making it a very tight fit getting the iron and chipper back into the body and I don't want to damage it at all.
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Regards,
Bill Antonacchio

[Jim Hinze]

Hi to all,

1. What type of wood do you think it is made from?



It's tough for me to tell from the picture, by my first reaction was Mahagany



2. I can't find any glue lines on the sides to indicate that is was made ala James Krenov's book "The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking" that I borrowed from the library.


On the sole, I can see what appear to be faint cheek lines from a glue-up, the top appears to be solid. It could have been made similar to Krenov's method or could have been carved from a solid block of wood. It's tough to tell just from pictures.



3. How was the interior hollowing done, specifically how do you locate the correct postions to drill and/or chisel out the angle for the iron and chipper? The finish on the angled parts and the interior work is really fine.


If constructed from a solid block of wood, the insides would have been carved out with chisels



4. Should I leave this plane body alone and just use it and base my attempts to make my own plane upon this design and size or is there a better way to approach making my own plane? I have read Krenov's chapter on planes and realize there is a lot to it but everybody has to start somewhere.


I personally wouldn't touch that plane. It looks perfectly serviceable. The mouth opening looks a tad bit large (would have to see it with the iron bedded), but other than that, it's a keeper.

Here are some pics of krenov style planes I've made. They use strait sided cheeks and a brass pin to secure the iron and chipper to the bed with a wedge.

http://www.hinzewoodcreations.com/wood/second_plane1.jpg

http://www.hinzewoodcreations.com/wood/IMG_0027.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~hypot/Pics/GalootStuff/HinzePlane.jpg



5. Is this iron and chipper any good? I have not tried to use the plane, when I got it home I did what I do to everything I get, I took it apart. Now the sawdust, dirt and whatever is making it a very tight fit getting the iron and chipper back into the body and I don't want to damage it at all.


Sorry, can't help you there. Sharpen it up, tune the chipper and give it a whirl .. that'll give you a good indication.

[Bill Antonacchio]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your reply. Great looking planes!


On the sole, I can see what appear to be faint cheek lines from a glue-up, the top appears to be solid. It could have been made similar to Krenov's method or could have been carved from a solid block of wood. It's tough to tell just from pictures.
I know it's hard to see from the web shot (even if you click on it the size on the separate page is kind of small to pick out details) but that line that looks like a glue line is a long scratch in the wood but does not extend end to end. Also there is not one on the other side at all.


I personally wouldn't touch that plane. It looks perfectly serviceable. The mouth opening looks a tad bit large (would have to see it with the iron bedded), but other than that, it's a keeper.
I kind of figured that but now that I have the iron out it is a problem getting it back in, I can probably do it forcing with hand pressure but am afraid to go off line and cause the iron to become a lever and crack the body wide open. Can I pare the sides down on each side where the iron/chipper edges touch the body and if so how do I keep them parallel and even? Or is it better to work on reducing the width of the iron?


Sorry, can't help you there. Sharpen it up, tune the chipper and give it a whirl .. that'll give you a good indication.
The iron is very sharp (I should have tried it out before taking it apart but...) will have to see when I get it back together how it works.

I am interested in making, initially, one like your middle picture. Did you use any reference plane or other instructions in creating your planes?

Regards,
Bill

[Jim Hinze]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your reply. Great looking planes!



Thanks, they are a blast to make and work incredibly well.



I know it's hard to see from the web shot (even if you click on it the size on the separate page is kind of small to pick out details) but that line that looks like a glue line is a long scratch in the wood but does not extend end to end. Also there is not one on the other side at all.


Ok. I thought on the exploded view there looked to be another faint line on the opposite cheek. It was probably a solid bodied plane carved out. Those type of planes are more traditional woodies and very much like what Steve Knight (www.knight-toolworks.com) makes today.



I kind of figured that but now that I have the iron out it is a problem getting it back in, I can probably do it forcing with hand pressure but am afraid to go off line and cause the iron to become a lever and crack the body wide open. Can I pare the sides down on each side where the iron/chipper edges touch the body and if so how do I keep them parallel and even? Or is it better to work on reducing the width of the iron?


The plane was probably built to have a very tight fit with no lateral movement. You "should" be able to get it back in tapping lightly with a ball-pin hammer.

You could pare down the sides to allot for lateral movement... I'd resist grinding down the iron width.



I am interested in making, initially, one like your middle picture. Did you use any reference plane or other instructions in creating your planes?


This book Making & Mastering Wooden Hand Planes (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/140272022X/102-0660724-3048132?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance) Is probably the best one I've read. Another resource would be David Marks show Wood Works on DIY network, here is his overview instructions on making a krenov style plane:

David Marks European Style Hand Plane (http://www.diynet.com/diy/shows_wwk/episode/0,2046,DIY_14350_34860,00.html)

[Gary White]

Here are some instructions on making the traditional style plane:http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwjackplane.html

That is how your plane was probably made.

I really can't recommend one type more than the other.

Nice planes, Jim.

Enjoy.

[Bill Antonacchio]

Thanks Gary,

Yes, that does look like it and looking at the sole of my plane I think it might be beech as mentioned in the article.

Thanks a lot for that info.

Now can I ask where I can get some beech or should I start a new thread and in what forum?

Regards,
Bill

[Mark Stutz]

Bill,
Can't help you on a supply of Beech, but any hard stable wood will do. If you do use Beech, I'm told that American Beech is fairly unstable compared to European...hence European benches of Beech and American of Hard Maple. Steve Knight uses a lor of Purpleheart, Paduak, and Ipe...I have a little ebony number that is great. So I don't think you should limit yourself.

Just my .02,FWIW.

Mark

[Bill Antonacchio]

Hi Mark,

Yes, looking at the examples I have seen here on SMC there are a variety of woods that will work fine. I don't know if I can find any Europen Beech of the dimensions necessary to make a smoother or anything larger, but since my woodworking "season" can't start yet I figured this would be a good time to start checking out plans, instructions, pictures, sources.

I assume for irons and chippers most would suggest Hock or are there other sources for these?

Regards,
Bill

[Mike Weaver]

Hi to all,

I just purchased this wooden coffin plane locally. I was wondering if anybody could help me out with some of my questions about the plane?

I don't know anything about planes in general and wooden planes in particular so any help would be great.

1. What type of wood do you think it is made from?

Hi Bill,
It is most likely beech as other have suggested.



3. How was the interior hollowing done, specifically how do you locate the correct postions to drill and/or chisel out the angle for the iron and chipper? The finish on the angled parts and the interior work is really fine.

You'll probably want to make or buy a set of planemaking floats.
See the following links for more info:
http://www.norsewoodsmith.com/img/float/Floats.htm
http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/pmakersfloats.shtml



4. Should I leave this plane body alone and just use it and base my attempts to make my own plane upon this design and size or is there a better way to approach making my own plane? I have read Krenov's chapter on planes and realize there is a lot to it but everybody has to start somewhere.
Yes, just use it. Someday, I'll make some planes and I plan on experimenting with both Krenov & traditional styles.



5. Is this iron and chipper any good? I have not tried to use the plane, when I got it home I did what I do to everything I get, I took it apart. Now the sawdust, dirt and whatever is making it a very tight fit getting the iron and chipper back into the body and I don't want to damage it at all.

Yes, that iron is fine! Again, as other have noted, it should be a bit of a tight fit getting the iron in & out so that lateral movement isn't an issue in use.

I have a Moulson iron and it holds an edge just fine.

Enjoy and please post pics of your progress.

Oh, here's an interview/chat session with a planemaker:
http://www.woodcentral.com/chats/chat_anderson50419.shtml

Also, here are some videos on making wood planes:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2nwp6/planes/hollow.html (http://members.bellatlantic.net/%7Evze2nwp6/planes/hollow.html)

Cheers,
-Mike

[Tom Jones III]

The best book I've seen on making hand planes

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="375"> <tbody><tr><td class="itemTitleProduct">Making Traditional Wooden Planes</td></tr><tr> <td height="6">
</td></tr><tr> <td>John M. Whelan (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?userid=yX1UY3GCVS&ath=John+M%2E+Whelan)</td></tr></tbody> </table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="375"> <tbody><tr><td>ISBN: 1879335697 ("")</td></tr><tr> <td>Format: Paperback, 121pp</td></tr><tr> <td>Pub. Date: May 1996</td></tr><tr> <td>Publisher: Astragal Press, The</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Mike Weaver]

The best book I've seen on making hand planes

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="375"> <tbody><tr><td class="itemTitleProduct">Making Traditional Wooden Planes</td></tr><tr><td height="6">
</td></tr><tr><td>John M. Whelan (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?userid=yX1UY3GCVS&ath=John+M%2E+Whelan)</td></tr></tbody> </table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="375"> <tbody><tr><td>ISBN: 1879335697 (http://1879335697)</td></tr><tr><td>Format: Paperback, 121pp</td></tr><tr><td>Pub. Date: May 1996</td></tr><tr><td>Publisher: Astragal Press, The</td></tr></tbody> </table>

Tom,
Thanks for adding this.
That's also on my "get one day" list...

Cheers,
-Mike

[Bill Antonacchio]

Mike and Tom.

Thanks for the links and book recommendations.

I had seen and was considering ordering
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>Wooden Planes and How to Make Them

</td><td align="right" valign="top">http://www.leevalley.com/wood/graphics/ReturnToSearch.gif (http://www.leevalley.com/home/Search.aspx?c=2&action=n)</td></tr></tbody> </table> <table class="CopyImage" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="500"> <tbody><tr><td valign="top"><table align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="9" width="10">
</td><td>http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/books/49l8060s2.jpg</td></tr><tr><td height="10">
</td></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>by David G. Perch and Robert S. Lee</td></tr></tbody> </table> The Robert S. Lee author credit is supposed to be the Lee of Lee Valley Tools. Anybody know about this book relative to Whelan's. Since I am just starting at this I don't know if I should buy over my head (more than I can comprehend and appreciate) now and as I gain knowledge grow into the book or get something simple and worry about more technical when I can make use of what is being offered.

Again, thanks for the info.

Regards,
Bill

[Bob Smalser]

The plane is beech and it was factory made, probably in the late 1800's.

Factories used purpose-built mortisers to shape the bed, cheeks and throat. Those who made them by hand...and most boatbuilders did as few shipwright planes were factory made....used stiffs (pointed saws) and floats (pointed rasps) to make those cuts. They didn't have Krenov's glues back then, so junks (plane blocks) were the only reliable way to do it.

Your plane needs a new sole to perform well, and if there's already a glueline there, it won't be the first.

Here's how to do it...it's easy...so easy that converting existing 5-dollar oldies to modern purposes is much easier than making your own planes:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=8351&highlight=woodies



http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4029780/49877202.jpg

And there's more here if the toe is worn more than the heel, which is the usual case:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=11233&highlight=spar+planes

[Don Naples]

Bill: If you can find a copy of American Woodworker #43, February, 1995, there is a good article written by Scott Landis about plane makers Cecil Pierce and Tom Lie-Nielsen. The part about Cecil provides some excellent information and photographs about making wooden planes from a single block of wood. He used cast steel irons like the one in your plane.

[Michael Fross]

Hello,

Does anyone own both John Whelan's book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1879335697/103-1832512-7752608?v=glance&n=283155&%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance) and Finck's book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/140272022X/ref=ord_cart_shr/103-1832512-7752608?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance)? I'm thinking about making a jointer out of some nice 12/4 hard maple I picked up and wanted to know which book folks thought was a better how to guide.

I consider myself an advanced beginner which it comes to skill level, but I admit this seems like a daunting task.

Many thanks for your thoughts.

Michael

[Steve Wargo]

I have both. Whelan's book is written better. Fincke's book has better illustrations. I like Whelan's other book (the wooden plane...) so I give him the nod, but you won't go wrong with either. I also enjoy giving astragal press as much business a possible. A great publisher.

[Javier Gonzalez]

Hello,

Does anyone own both John Whelan's book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1879335697/103-1832512-7752608?v=glance&n=283155&%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance) and Finck's book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/140272022X/ref=ord_cart_shr/103-1832512-7752608?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance)? I'm thinking about making a jointer out of some nice 12/4 hard maple I picked up and wanted to know which book folks thought was a better how to guide.

Many thanks for your thoughts.

Michael

Fincks book is a great all around tutorial on woodworking,including tuning
WW machines, tuning up old block planes, sharpening chisels, plane irons etc.
There's a great chapter on Planing Aids and techniques such as making and
using shooting boards, bench pups,bench hooks, drawer boards etc.
I give it a hearty thumbs up!!

[James Mittlefehldt]

What about Wooden Planes And How To Make Them, by David G Perch and Robert S. Lee I ask as this one is available at the local Lee Valley store and I will be there tomorrow or Friday?