Festool domino for a hand tooler?

[Reinis Kanders]

I have been tempted to look into Festool dominos stuff. Thought it might make things a little faster for quick builds, but after some reflection decided to hold off.
My reasoning is that since I do everything by hand, but for some resawing with a bandsaw, dominos do not offer that much of a speed increase.
It requires perfect butt joint cuts which can take time if done by hand since one usually has to plane to the line to make it perfect enough.
When I do tenons I do not need these perfect cuts since I reference from the edge and mark my tenons from there.

Any thoughts? I know Derek has been using dominos for his kitchen door build so it must be faster, but how much of a gain is it?
Thanks.

[Tony Wilkins]

I have been tempted to look into Festool dominos stuff. Thought it might make things a little faster for quick builds, but after some reflection decided to hold off.
My reasoning is that since I do everything by hand, but for some resawing with a bandsaw, dominos do not offer that much of a speed increase.
It requires perfect butt joint cuts which can take time if done by hand since one usually has to plane to the line to make it perfect enough.
When I do tenons I do not need these perfect cuts since I reference from the edge and mark my tenons from there.

Any thoughts? I know Derek has been using dominos for his kitchen door build so it must be faster, but how much of a gain is it?
Thanks.

The biggest use I see for a Neanderthal is in lining up large/long boards for glue up.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

My reason to not get one is the price. Isn't that thing approaching $1000 USD? It is hard to justify for the layperson. I can get a nice table saw and reminding jig for that.

Not dissing the tool- I love the idea and it would make quick work of some projects, but the price- yikes! They do make mortise and tenon jigs for routers that will get you similar results. Have you considered those?

[Mike Henderson]

The biggest use I see for a Neanderthal is in lining up large/long boards for glue up.
If all you need is to line up boards for a glue up, cauls are a LOT less expensive than a Domino.

But that said, after I bought my Domino, I found all kind of uses for it and now use it on almost every project.

Mike

[Tony Wilkins]

If all you need is to line up boards for a glue up, cauls are a LOT less expensive than a Domino.

But that said, after I bought my Domino, I found all kind of uses for it and now use it on almost every project.

Mike

Thats probably why I'd don't have one Mike lol. What uses have you found?

[Brian Holcombe]

Couple more dollars and you can get a floor standing mortiser.

[Chuck Nickerson]

The Domino makes a floating tenon joint in normal sized stock. If you're slow chopping mortises, the Domino may well help you.
If your M&T joints are in 3/8" stock (e.g. for small boxes) I think it's a bad fit.

If you're looking to speed up M&T joinery and don't want to spring for a Domino, Rockler has something called BeadLock which is drill-based.
I used one recently on a project involving 96 mortises and it worked for me.

[Mike Henderson]

That's probably why I'd don't have one Mike lol. What uses have you found?
I certainly can't remember all the times I've used it, but when making glass doors for furniture (wooden framed), I used the Domino to attach rail and stile. For some game boards I made recently, I had to attach a border around the boards. On the ends where there was end grain, I used the small Dominos to attach the border because I was concerned that just glue would not be enough. If I have to join pieces of plywood, I put in Dominos because I've found that plywood does not glue on the end very well. When making a chest of drawers, I join the pieces that make up the blade between drawers with Dominos. I used it for making a breadboard end on a table.

To repair chairs, I now take the chair apart and put dominos where the dowels used to be. If I need a bigger mortise and tenon, I move the Domino over and plunge again. That way, you can make a mortise as wide as you want. To make a bigger loose tenon, I'll either make my own or glue a couple of commercial dominos together (just cut one side flat before gluing).

So pretty much anywhere you'd use a M&T I now use a Domino, plus other places where I see that some extra strength would be valuable. Surprisingly, I found that I used the very small Dominos quite a bit, for small stock or for attaching small molding.

My furniture joinery is pretty much hand cut dovetails and Dominos now. I had access early in my woodworking to a horizontal slot mortiser for making mortises - and incidentally, a horizontal slot mortiser is a wonderful tool, much better than those "square drill" type mortisers - and I look at the Domino as a portable slot mortiser.

The advantage of the Domino is that it's fast, produces a perfect mortise, and is portable. I can make mortises where I couldn't with a slot mortiser.

And I'm sure I haven't covered all the times I've used it.

Mike

[I'll add that I was not a fan of the Domino when it first came out. But a friend of mine bought one and eventually lent it to me for a project. Once I used it, I was hooked.]

[Mike Henderson]

The Domino makes a floating tenon joint in normal sized stock. If you're slow chopping mortises, the Domino may well help you.
If your M&T joints are in 3/8" stock (e.g. for small boxes) I think it's a bad fit.

If you're looking to speed up M&T joinery and don't want to spring for a Domino, Rockler has something called BeadLock which is drill-based.
I used one recently on a project involving 96 mortises and it worked for me.
I've put a lot of dominos in 3/8" stock. The smallest Domino is 4mm by 20mm. 4mm is a bit more than 1/8" and 20mm is about 3/4". Works very well on 3/8" stock.

Mike

[Chris Hachet]

It is on my want to own badly list...not every project is a hand tool project.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Discussing Festool in the Neader forum:eek: .... don't you have to promise to only use 18th century hand forged cutters:confused: and lightening for power???;):D

Yeah. I want one!

[Prashun Patel]

I own a Domino XL and appreciate it. With the small cutter adapter, you can use it for everything that the small one is used for.

It's nice to have it around to augment the hand tool work. I've used it to cut just the mortises, leaving me to cut the tenons and square up the mortises. I've used them just to chop out the bulk of the waste, leaving me to pare the sides. I've used it to do the entire joint. It's just nice to have options. I also make my own loose tenons. I mill them thick, then plane and bevel them with a smooth plane to a perfect fit.

While I've never used a slot mortiser or floor standing mortiser, I can't think of any ops that would make those tools preferable to this one.

I don't use it for panel alignment. I use it for bread board ends sometimes. I've used it to make turn buttons when attaching tabletops to aprons. It's a versatile way to take short cuts when appropriate.

If you are challenged getting perfect butt joints (and wish to) then I suggest you might first invest in a shooting board!!!

[Tony Wilkins]

I own a Domino XL and appreciate it. With the small cutter adapter, you can use it for everything that the small one is used for.

It's nice to have it around to augment the hand tool work. I've used it to cut just the mortises, leaving me to cut the tenons and square up the mortises. I've used them just to chop out the bulk of the waste, leaving me to pare the sides. I've used it to do the entire joint. It's just nice to have options. I also make my own loose tenons. I mill them thick, then plane and bevel them with a smooth plane to a perfect fit.

While I've never used a slot mortiser or floor standing mortiser, I can't think of any ops that would make those tools preferable to this one.

I don't use it for panel alignment. I use it for bread board ends sometimes. I've used it to make turn buttons when attaching tabletops to aprons. It's a versatile way to take short cuts when appropriate.

If you are challenged getting perfect butt joints (and wish to) then I suggest you might first invest in a shooting board!!!

Would like to see how you use them for turn buttons.

[Prashun Patel]

I have to unscrew this so you can see the joint.

1. Make a mortise in the button which is sized to fit the tenon exactly.
2. Glue Domino into that slot.
3. Make an over-sized slot in the apron.
4. Insert the tenon end of the button into the apron slot.
5. Screw, from the bottom, the button into the table top.

[Brian Holcombe]

All the majority dedicated handtool professionals I know augment their work with a hollow chisel mortiser (floor standing), a bandsaw and usually a planer. The reason is that these tools can work to a gauge line.

That is not to say they don't own a festool domino or that others don't use it, just that they're doing the above mentioned method because it's an easy step to take and works in with majority handtool work quite easily.

[Derek Cohen]

The reason to use mortice-and-tenon joinery is because (1) it is traditional and you prefer to do things traditionally, (2) the design and size of the joint is up to up you, and this will result in the ideal joinery, which will maximise strength, and (3) the joint is more likely to be reversed more easily in spite of the fact that one can use hide glue with either.

Domino are not just quick and easy, but they are also efficient and strong enough given the joinery needs. For example, the kitchen doors that are my current focus will have a life of, say, 20 years - not because they are built any less strongly than furniture built for 200 years, but because fashion will dictate otherwise. To M&T 20+ doors and drawer fronts (Shaker style) would take a lot, lot longer that to Domino. The end result is the same in looks and strength .... actually, it is easier to get a perfect and repeatable result with the Domino, since the joints are simple butt joints. The Domino is geared to power tools use.

I think that the hand tool worker's dislike if the Domino is more likely to come from the thought that it is too easy, and that it is cheating ... that good joinery is a skill, and that skill takes time to learn ... that skill is part of the learning curve, and is a badge of honour. Using a Domino is like jumping the line. Even a beginner can achieve perfect joints. That is unfair!

I do not plan on using a Domino for the furniture I built for the reasons I outlined above. Nevertheless, I want to feel I am beyond the pettiness of "right and wrong" - I do not believe that there is any such thing. Hand tools are not religion, and building furniture uses a great many skills and tools. The best builders design the piece first and then find a way to construct it. One will be limited in scope if you only consider handtools for all tasks (unless all you plan to do is recreacte the past, which is reasonable as well).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Shawn Pixley]

I am a blended woodworker. For furniture I am building, I would the do the joinery all by hand. For utilitarian (but still strong and looking good) projects (such as a laundry room cabinet), I would use my Domino. For me it depends upon the project, use and how much time I wish to devote to it. Like Derek, I don't think there is a right or wrong.

[Patrick Walsh]

Building a large kitchen right now of beaded face frames and beaded shaker style doors.

I'm cutting the haunch with a Kreg bit on my router table. Then using my slot mortiser and home made tennons to connect everything.

Works like a charm. However i have found myself wishing for a Domino, it would be much quicker. The slot mortiser is plenty fast but it has a small group table. Being able to take the tool to the work sounds like a dream when trying to make a living. The domino would also make attaching the face frames 123 not fastners needed.

If i purchased a tool everytime i had a need for one i would be broke broke broke. Oh yeah i am broke and i practice and give into restraint constantly.

For non work related personal projects i might use the slot mortiser then hand cut my tenon. Often i find hand tools eadier than machines. Sometimes the time required to setup a machine for a function can be a project itself. The Domino i would say kiboshes this component of machine woodworking..