Crossing gates and power outages

[Stephen Tashiro]

Do railroad crossing gates continue to operate when there has been a power outage in their part of the city?

I know that traffic lights in my city don't operate when there has been a power outage, but I've never noticed whether the crossing gates work.

[Kev Williams]

I would think they wouldn't, but then, neither would the signal lights for the engineers, which would lead me to believe they'd be going pretty slow with the horns a-blarin' at any road crossings...?

[Howard Garner]

The signals the engineer sees do have a battery backup system.
I am not usre about the crossing gates.

Howard Garner
a rail fan

[Rod Sheridan]

I worked for a company that made the chargers for the trackside batteries that operated the lights and gates.

The crossing equipment should work during outages............Regards, Rod.

[Myk Rian]

They get all screwed up during close encounters.

[Rick Moyer]

I worked for a company that made the chargers for the trackside batteries that operated the lights and gates.

The crossing equipment should work during outages............Regards, Rod.
I know someone who backed into one of those stainless "buildings" near a crossing with a large dump truck. His insurance paid $50,000 to repair it, so I certainly hope there is something in there that would keep the lights working!:eek:

[Ronald Blue]

The crossing signals do have batteries to keep them operating for a period of time after a power outage.

[John K Jordan]

The crossing signals do have batteries to keep them operating for a speriod of time after a power outage.

Since the RR crossing gates are counter balanced I'd be surprised if the batteries were not rated for an extended power outage. The little batteries in my electric security gate controller are supposed to open and close the two 8' gates 400 time if the power goes out.

JKJ

[Bill Orbine]

The school buses and fuel trucks stop at every railroad crossings in my area......I guess it's not worth taking the chances whether there's power failure or malfunctioning gates.

[Jerome Stanek]

The school buses and fuel trucks stop at every railroad crossings in my area......I guess it's not worth taking the chances whether there's power failure or malfunctioning gates.

Its law in most states here we have many crossings that are only marked with cross bucks

[Myk Rian]

Yeah. State laws.

[Rick Moyer]

Yeah. State laws.
Actually, I believe it's federal motor carrier rules. Hazmat at least requires stopping at all RR crossings.

[John Sanford]

Its law in most states here we have many crossings that are only marked with cross bucks

It's FEDERAL law, echoed by State laws which likely cover all non-Class B school buses as well. Commercial vehicles carrying in excess of 12(?) people or carrying hazmat are required to stop at all railroad crossing unless the crossing is marked "EXEMPT". The only exempt crossing I've ever seen is on US Highway 95, between Henderson, NV and Boulder City, NV, at, ironically enough, Railroad Pass. The tracks were laid to serve the building of Hoover Dam and run from the Las Vegas Valley over to Boulder City. The tracks are paved over, but kept intact "just in case." I'm sure there are plenty of other exempt crossings, I've just never encountered 'em.

[Yonak Hawkins]

The school buses and fuel trucks stop at every railroad crossings....

The school buses sit and wait for several minutes. It's very annoying to motorists.

[Ed Labadie]

As been said, crossing gates have battery back-ups.

CN has even went as far as putting automatic back-up generators at the crossings here......

Ed

[Ronald Blue]

The school buses sit and wait for several minutes. It's very annoying to motorists.

So rather than annoy other motorists disobey the law and put children's lives at risk? They are required to stop, open the door and look in both directions. The passengers have to be quiet before they can be sure there is no train whistling to warn of it's approach. If they are sitting for more than a few seconds it is likely because of kids not quieting down.

[Brian Elfert]

The light rail crossings in downtown Minneapolis are marked exempt for taxis and buses. I have never noticed school buses taking several minutes to stop at a rail crossing. The whole opening the door thing makes no sense to me. The doors are already nearly full glass. Train whistles are loud enough that the driver can still hear with the door closed.

[Ronald Blue]

You haven't heard the Stop, Look, and Listen Slogan? If you think stereos and other noise can't drown out a train whistle you are sadly mistaken. I guarantee you in every grade crossing collision the horn was blown continuously before impact usually for 10-15 seconds. Often there were other factors at work as well. Light rail is different from freight rail and they don't play by the same rules.

[Yonak Hawkins]

...put children's lives at risk?

Backing up traffic for long periods of time does not make it any safer for children. There comes a point of diminishing returns where putting on such a show, plus Commissioners trying to out-do each other to demonstrate how dedicated they are to children, does not promote safety. Being reasonable does not put children's lives at risk. If they want to absolutely protect the children's lives they wouldn't let them walk along the streets, ride bikes and they would put seat belts in the buses.

[Ronald Blue]

Backing up traffic for long periods of time does not make it any safer for children. There comes a point of diminishing returns where putting on such a show, plus Commissioners trying to out-do each other to demonstrate how dedicated they are to children, does not promote safety. Being reasonable does not put children's lives at risk. If they want to absolutely protect the children's lives they wouldn't let them walk along the streets, ride bikes and they would put seat belts in the buses.
You can argue if you wish. But this is representative of the law. The five alive covers it accurately. The other link is a tragedy that happened in your area. Laws are no good if not followed.


oli.org/images/page/OLDriversGuide2.pdf

schoolbusfleet.com/article/610191/sudden-death-in-murray-county

[Myk Rian]

There comes a point of diminishing returns
There is no such thing when it comes to the safety of our children. Only an "In a hurry Yuppie" would think that way.
Use the time to check your finger nails.

[JIM PETERS II]

Yes, the gates will continue to operate in a power outage, as they have a battery backup system. The battery/line power actually holds the gates up. When the power is off, and the batteries loose power, the gates will drop and stay down. At this point, the lights will also not be working. I work for a railroad and have helped maintain signals for many years.
Jim P

[Frank Drew]

I live right on a freight rail line and I've never seen a school bus stop for "several minutes".

A number of years ago there was a school bus trapped on some tracks between the gates (not around here) and it was hit by a train, with multiple deaths. There cannot be any worse sight (or life-altering experience) for a train engineer than seeing a school bus stopped on his tracks and knowing he can't stop in time.

[Yonak Hawkins]

There is no such thing when it comes to the safety of our children.

Myk, if this is true, why aren't seat belts required on school buses ? No, the truth is, school commissioners are overly concerned about children's safety when it doesn't cost money but when the budget is on the line, they're not so dedicated.

[Yonak Hawkins]

...I've never seen a school bus stop for "several minutes".

Yes, I believe this may be specific to my county. Our school board commissioners are all trying to best each other to show how concerned they are about child safety, but they still allow children to walk and ride bikes along the road to get to school and don't have seat belts in the buses. The problem with providing real safety, instead of needless onerous rules, is that sidewalks and seat belts cost money.

[Ronald Blue]

Yes, I believe this may be specific to my county. Our school board commissioners are all trying to best each other to show how concerned they are about child safety, but they still allow children to walk and ride bikes along the road to get to school and don't have seat belts in the buses. The problem with providing real safety, instead of needless onerous rules, is that sidewalks and seat belts cost money.

I think you are sadly mistaken on what is going on with a school bus driver at a railroad crossing. I suggest you read the laws governing this. Your school commissioners can't override state and federal law. They might make a requirement that an empty bus also has to stop at a crossing but that's the only thing they could change. I don't believe a school bus stops for several minutes even in your area. They do have to wait for the students to get quiet. If that is the issue then it falls back on not being taught to comply with rules at home. Does it bother you when a bus has the flashing red lights on and stop arm out loading or unloading children? It seems like you don't understand who controls what in your community. What does riding a bicycle to school have to do with school bus safety? The school could pay for sidewalk in front of the school but I am guessing there already is a sidewalk present. They have no say or authority to place one anywhere else.

Frank there was an accident in Chicago that fit's that description. The light changed and there were vehicles in front of the bus and the back of the bus was on the tracks. The driver panicked and did nothing when they could have rammed into the vehicles in front to get clear. A poorly designed intersection and light timing was to blame.

[Myk Rian]

Myk, if this is true, why aren't seat belts required on school buses ? No, the truth is, school commissioners are overly concerned about children's safety when it doesn't cost money but when the budget is on the line, they're not so dedicated.
Seat belts are required. At least in Michigan they are.
It's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Ed Labadie]

Seat belts are required. At least in Michigan they are.
It's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

Seat belts are NOT required on full size schools busses, it's a federal regulation, not state.

http://www.michigan.gov/mde/0,4615,7-140-6530_6569_38338-204235--,00.html

Ed

[Myk Rian]

Whatever. We have them in this county anyway.

[Yonak Hawkins]

Does your county also require that all students get picked up by a bus and not walk on roads to school, no matter how close to school they live ? ..And do they not allow any automobile traffic anywhere near schools where children will be walking (including teachers and parents, as well as students) ? If not, then they are over-protective, at the expense of the motoring public, at railroad crossings and under-protective of the real safety of children near the schools.

Look, Myk, this is an unresolvable issue at this forum. The point is, commissioners and administrators over-protect at railroad crossings at the expense of motorists to make up for the fact that they are unable or unwilling to provide other safety measures that would do more good for more students. You can point to the laws, but that's my point, the laws are ineffectual and are focused in the wrong direction for true child safety.

It kind of hints at a broader issue in vogue these days, that we are over-protective of children in general in modern society. We don't give children the opportunity to learn by giving them the freedom to make decisions on their own. My grandmother used to say, if you want to keep your child healthy, she must be allowed to eat dirt.

[Ted Calver]

Never trust a crossing. I always look both ways.....just in case.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/passenger-train-crashes-fedex-truck-shocking-video/story?id=45022454

[Andy Giddings]

Never trust a crossing. I always look both ways.....just in case.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/passenger-train-crashes-fedex-truck-shocking-video/story?id=45022454
Amazingly enough, no reported injuries. I can only imagine how the drivers of both the train and truck feel

[Rod Sheridan]

Amazingly enough, no reported injuries. I can only imagine how the drivers of both the train and truck feel

When I was in college I had a girl friend whose father was a Locomotive Engineer, he hit an automobile at a level crossing.

The people had driven onto the tracks and the guards came down in front and behind the automobile.

He could see the automobile, even though the train was about 600 metres away. He had a 106 car freight behind 4 locomotives.

He recounted that he applied the brakes, put on the horn and closed his eyes, and to that day had nightmares about the sound of the locomotive pushing and rolling the automobile in front of it until it broke into pieces and was pushed off the track.

I always think of him whenever I'm at a guarded crossing watching the train go by, I'm sure an incident like that would leave permanent psychological damage..............Regards, Rod

[John K Jordan]

I always think of him whenever I'm at a guarded crossing watching the train go by, I'm sure an incident like that would leave permanent psychological damage..............Regards, Rod

When I was a kid in PA we lived across some tracks. One day a man started over a crossing a few hundred yards up the tracks from us. A train took the front end of the car off at the firewall and spread it down the tracks. Amazingly the man escaped even a scratch. Someone came and asked us kids if we had heard whether or not the conductor blew the whistle. Unfortunately, we were no help even though we had been playing in the yard at the time - when you live next to the tracks you almost never hear the trains or whistles. We did have "stop, look, and listen" drummed into us. Our dad always turned off the radio and rolled down the window to listen.

JKJ

[Mike Henderson]

When I was a teenager, I was working at a place next to the train tracks (dual tracks). No gate, just the sign. For some reason I was out in front of the company and witnessed this.

A freight train was passing on the track away from me. As soon as it finished, cars started to cross the track. What they couldn't see because of the train that had just passed, was that a passenger train was coming on the track closest to me and from the direction where the other train was headed. So the freight train was blocking people's view of the passenger train. Several cars made it across the tracks safely but one was hit broadside and the woman driving it was killed. Her kids had a service station just across the street from me and she was coming to their station. Unfortunately, they witnessed the accident, also.

Mike

[Garth Almgren]

Since the RR crossing gates are counter balanced I'd be surprised if the batteries were not rated for an extended power outage. The little batteries in my electric security gate controller are supposed to open and close the two 8' gates 400 time if the power goes out.
While riding the Sounder train to Mariners or Seahawk games, I've noticed that the small powerhouses between cities that power the signals often have a portable generator chained to the building during storm season, so I think the battery backup is likely only good for a few hours, but not days.

[Frank Drew]

Frank there was an accident in Chicago that fit's that description. The light changed and there were vehicles in front of the bus and the back of the bus was on the tracks. The driver panicked and did nothing when they could have rammed into the vehicles in front to get clear. A poorly designed intersection and light timing was to blame.

That sounds exactly like the awful accident I'd heard of, Ronald, complete with the driver not having the presence of mind (or whatever) to blow through the cars blocking her bus. Terrible for absolutely everyone involved.