Spalted Liquid Amber

[John K Jordan]

My friend David Smith from the Northwest sent me a piece of wood the other day labeled Liquid Amber. It was soft and punky and the tearout was horrible but promised some striking figure.

Dave wrote: "I knew the liquid amber was really soft and was hoping you could do something with it. My mom's neighbor in California had this rotting tree stump and said I could have it. Most of it was rotted away but I just had to take a small piece."

So I could turn it without it falling apart I used the old stabilization standby, CA glue. (*) The biggest challenge for this little piece was deciding how to turn it to best show off the wonderful spalting.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=351861&d=1484530063

Oh, this is 2" tall, sitting on a piece of ebony.

I never heard of Liquid Amber so I looked it up. It sure has a lot interesting names for what turns out to be a common tree...
Liquidambar styraciflua, commonly called American sweetgum, hazel pine, American-storax, bilsted, red-gum, satin-walnut, star-leaved gum, or alligator-wood.

* If you haven't tried using CA to stabilize wood, I do this: turn to rough shape, flood with thin CA glue until it won't soak up any more, let it set up, then add more if it will take it. I do not use accelerator. (I prefer HotStuff brand CA for this. Be cautious of the fumes and be aware that it will probably get HOT and smoke. I've never had one catch fire.) Turn a little down to clean wood, then repeat the glue application, make a finish cut, repeat. Shear scraping with a spindle gouge will take off excess hardened glue on the surface. Sand and finish. This method can "turn" an otherwise misbehaving piece of wood into one with a glass-smooth surface. I last used it with good results on some mostly decayed spalted yellow poplar.

BTW, just for fun I tried something different, a photo I haven't tried before with a shape like this. To keep it from rolling in the photo booth I put a little wedge behind it cut from a gum eraser. Tip: tilt your photo surface ever so slightly up in the front so placement aids like the wedge can be easily hidden BEHIND the piece. This is a lot simpler than messing with tape or plastitack...

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This is my diffusing photo cube, putting the table saw to good use. Easy to make.

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JKJ

[daryl moses]

Beautiful piece and I love the shape, great form!!
We have plenty of Sweet Gum here on the farm and I've turned my fair share of it but never had a piece with that much character. Maybe I need to cut one down and let ole Mother Nature do her thing.
BTW, it sure looks larger than 2"!

[Bob Bouis]

Very interesting wood. It really doesn't look like sweetgum to me, but I guess it could have just been unrecognizable because of the degree of decay. Maybe. Sweetgum is also not a native California tree--not saying it's impossible that there was one growing there, though.

Sweetgum is very perishable around here and any piece that was spalted would also be swiss cheese, in my experience at least. It makes very handsome, streaky bowls, at least if there's enough heartwood which there sometimes isn't.

The trees are very common around here and when undisturbed grow spectacularly large. Old growth sweetgum dominated swampy areas, along with sycamore (another tree that can get really huge). There are still a few of them at a park here that are really a sight to behold.

[Bob Bouis]

I don't have a photo booth so my pictures aren't so good, but here's one:

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[Jay Mullins]

Nice work John, I have found that shellac works very well when turning spalted wood that has become very punky. I turn to the shape I want then saturate with the shellac. The next day I will lightly sand and repeat the process. Most spalted wood is too beautiful to just throw away, so I save it when I can.

Jay

[John K Jordan]

Nice work John, I have found that shellac works very well when turning spalted wood that has become very punky. I turn to the shape I want then saturate with the shellac. The next day I will lightly sand and repeat the process. Most spalted wood is too beautiful to just throw away, so I save it when I can.

Jay, thanks. I use the shellac too (thinned) or use thinned lacquer for soft wood and especially spalted wood. (The lacquer dries quicker but I like the shellac better as an undercoat.) I've been collecting quite a bit of spalted wood, maple, birch, beech, hackberry, tamerind, yellow poplar. Someone gave me a bunch of green holly this year and I let some spalt - wierd! And with a similar story to Dave's, from a stump I hauled off for a neighbor I got some amazing spalted Dogwood! I've cut a lot of dogwood and had some on the ground and almost rotted, but I have never once seen any spalting. I know this stump was sitting exposed in their yard for over 5 years - maybe that's a good trick for fantastic spalting.

This piece had parts that were almost crumbly in places so I went for the CA. I find it makes the wood almost as hard as wood that has been stabilized with resin infusion.

Bob, I don't know anything else about the wood. I have cut a number of sweetgum logs on my sawmill and have blanks on my shelf, but from the looks of the part of it I didn't turn I can believe it could be sweetgum. Perhaps the owner of the stump was a forester who planted the tree 40 years ago, or maybe liquid amber is a guess. Maybe I'll see if there is enough wood structure left in the tenon to do an end-grain examination with the microscope. But regardless, the character in the wood got me highly interested!

Daryl, Thanks. About the size, that's exactly what my wife said! She said it was a lot smaller than she expected after seeing the picture. (I have to be careful handing her the actual pieces since sometimes they are confiscated and sent off to her friends for birthday presents and such.)

I think part of the size perception may be a photo trick. Besides the perspective difference from using a long lens, photos of small things are photographed with a macro lens usually have a tell-tale narrow depth of focus. I used a very small aperture and long shutter speed to give this one a deeper focus.

For something completely different, here is one of my favorite macro shots from a few years ago, shooting my honeybees in a golden rain tree - the depth of field is tiny!

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At least the wood stayed perfectly still. In the bee shoot the things moving were the bees, the branches, the camera, and myself! Sharp focus was tricky. I took over 400 photos over two days to get 6 in good focus and composition. Good clean fun!

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

I like sweetgums, but most people consider them a nuisance tree. They grow tall and straight, which doesn't look too good in a yard. They make poor firewood and drop lots of spikey balls. Plus they like wet soil so I assume they'd have a hard time growing in California. But who knows. I'd be interested to hear of the results of your microscope analysis.

[Doug Rasmussen]

Aw jeez..we just had to take a very large sweet gum down on our parking strip.

We had such a hate relationship with that tree it never occurred to me to save any for turning. We planted the tree years ago when it was listed as a recommended "street" tree. It was later removed from the recommended list because as they age they tend to drop huge limbs with no warnings of apparent structural issues with the limb. Seattle has what seems like odd rules for trees on your parking strip. You pay for the tree, but the city has control over the trees. You pay to maintain them using only a city approved tree service to trim them under city issued permit. You can not have a street tree removed without permit and authorization from the city arborist.

[John K Jordan]

Seattle has what seems like odd rules for trees on your parking strip.


I don't know exactly what a parking strip is, but you just reminded me of why I moved to the countryside! We don't even need a permit to put up a building (if it's related to agriculture.)

I found that some sweetgum trees had a rainbow of color inside - pink, blue/green, creamy white, and browns. The best colors I found were subdued but still worth turning. Surprises like that at the sawmill are great fun!

JKJ

[Damon McLaughlin]

John, I'm glad you found a good use for the liquid amber that I sent you. And I sincerely appreciate the your gift of wood too!!

When I was visiting my mother last summer in Ft. Bragg California I met a friend of hers. She said that she had a tree fall down about ten years ago and a local woodworker took everything except the stump. She says the woodworker is the one that said the tree was liquid amber so that is all I have to go on. Anyway, the stump laid there for almost a decade and I was told I could have it. Most of it was so rotten that it fell apart before I could even roll it to the truck. And it was a horrible mess with my step dad's chain saw. Eventually I got to some not so rotten wood (though still very punky) and brought it home. Its been sitting in the garden shed for about eight months now. I love the color and figures in the wood and slowly I've been chipping away at the clods of dirt and rocks. I'm still afraid to start turning it yet, I'm waiting to build up my skills first. Its wonderful to see what John was able to do with a piece of it.

[John K Jordan]

With a razor blade I was able to get a clean cross section of the end grain of the small piece left over. At first look it appears to be consistent with sweet gum (Liquidambar styraciflua). Maybe I'll have time tomorrow to use the stereo microscope and check it against the references.

Spent the day with two vet students dissecting a seriously injured peacock. Scalpels, hemostats, forceps, scissors, microscope slides. The interesting activities available on a farm... (And another good use for the shop!)

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

With a razor blade I was able to get a clean cross section of the end grain of the small piece left over. At first look it appears to be consistent with sweet gum (Liquidambar styraciflua). Maybe I'll have time tomorrow to use the stereo microscope and check it against the references.


Well, no luck. The section that looked clean was nearly useless under magnification. The cell walls were "mushy" and collapsed instead of cutting with a sharp razor blade. I could see that it was very finely diffuse porous with barely visible ring boundaries and rays but the whole sample is so indistinct I can't tell. Hoadley cautions that several species are so close to gum that it takes a high magnification to tell for sure, and that is on a good sample. I'm going to give up on the ID and just be happy to have finished it!

JKJ

[Jay Mullins]

sounds like toooooooooooo much government control for me. I used to live in fla. and the code enforcement people were always driving up and down the street looking for violations to write up. Don't miss that at all. In NC , if I want to cut a tree on my property, I don't have to ask anybody.

Jay

[Frederick Skelly]

Gorgeous John!

[CHARLES D Richards]

John,
here's a photo of a rough turned spalted sweet gum that I finished turning this week. It's a little punky and in the finishing room now so I don't have current photos as yet. It took about 9 months for it spalt.352056

[John K Jordan]

...It took about 9 months for it spalt.352056

If that is typical sweet gum spalting I can believe the little piece I turned could be gum. (BTW, I learned something from researching this: several of the references say that the sap wood of Liquidambar styraciflua is often referred to as sweet gum and the heartwood is called red gum.)

Do you have a reliable procedure for spalting on purpose? I've been doing some "recently" by the method of laying the log on the ground, kicking leaves and dirt over it, and pouring on some water when the weather was really dry (such as around here most of the last year). I've tried just setting one end of a short round directly on the dirt but it leaves the other end unspalted. Maybe turn it over every few months? This past year I've added spalted maple, dogwood, and holly to my drying racks.

If you spalt wood on purpose how do you have a secret way to know when it is "ready"? Do you use the guess, cut, and "rats, not yet" method that I use?

The holly spalted with broad areas and streaks of indistinct discoloration instead of the fine, high-contrast black lines I see in maple, birch, and dogwood. The spalted hackberry I have also has black lines but less distinct. If what you show is typical, sweet gum is different from anything else I've seen. Feel free to ship a pallet of this to me, it won't bother me at all. :-)

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

What I'd like to know is how to keep the sapwood white. When you rough turn it the colors and contrast are spectacular. When it dries the heartwood is more muted and the sapwood takes on a gray cast.

But googling pictures of sweetgum turnings I do see some where they managed to keep the sapwood white. Blow it out with compressed air? Treat it with fungicide? Finish turn it green? I don't know, but I'm going to try all those next time I get a good sweetgum log.

It seems unfair to me how other people manage to get spalted wood that hasn't turned gray or blue and been turned to swiss cheese by bugs.

[CHARLES D Richards]

John,
I don't have a fool proof method but with the species i know will spalt from my personal experience here's what I do:

Logs are kept outside in the open end up
top end has some dirt thrown on it and of course the other end is already on the dirt
check the log in 6 months by cutting 1/2 inch off the end to have a look see
if no spalting yet check monthly

From experience the only time I vary from this is with river birch. At least in my area (south Georgia) it will spalt in about 4 months. Everything else seems to take 6-9 months. I keep a number of logs that routinely spalt around the place and check regularly depending on where they are in the process above. Since I sell my pieces and most folks seem to gravitate to spalted bowls so I try to keep those pieces coming along all the time.

Here is a spalted river birch I finished turning this morning (no finish yet) This is a 16" bowl and beautiful but certainly a different spalting than sweet gum. This piece was rough turned after 4 months since it had spalted, put in a dishwasher ( I put my big bowls in old dishwashers for drying- I have 4 of them :-)). Most bowls seems to dry in 8-12 weeks in the dishwasher.


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Anyway, this may be more than you want to know but it works for me,

Dave

[John K Jordan]

...
Logs are kept outside in the open end up
top end has some dirt thrown on it and of course the other end is already on the dirt
check the log in 6 months by cutting 1/2 inch off the end to have a look see
if no spalting yet check monthly
...

Anyway, this may be more than you want to know but it works for me

Ha! Thank you, Dave, that is EXACTLY the kind of info I was hoping for! In fact I want more. :) Here's a question:

When you say you cut off 1/2" to check, I'm assuming you mean cut 1/2" off the top, not the side in the dirt, right? Would that be to see if the fungus has reached the top from the ground, or has does it also grow down from the top?

Do you have a favorite length of log section for the vertical technique?

I cut one up yesterday (sugar maple, about 16" long) that had been sitting vertically on in the weather since summer. Nicely spalted but mostly on one side. Another 24" piece from the same log had great spalting but not all the way up. I've had some great spalting from logs lying flat on the ground but the contact side is usually degraded. Now I want to plant a spalting garden (or wood cemetary?) with a variety of species. Since my two remaining brain cells are weakening I probably need to label each with the starting date and results of each check.

Please share any other spalting tips! For example, can you share your secret short list of favorite species for spalting?

I don't often try to sell things but you are right, almost everyone likes spalted pieces, tops, boxes, whatever. Anything I make with spalted wood seems to be picked or bought first, even if it has only minor spalting. (The one at the top of the second photo sold for $200 - I was surprised the lady picked that one out of the batch!)

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JKJ



JKJ

[John K Jordan]

...
It seems unfair to me how other people manage to get spalted wood that hasn't turned gray or blue and been turned to swiss cheese by bugs.

Our mother told us not to expect life to be fair or we would be frustrated. I think success with spalting is like success with business: Location. And timing. And perseverance. And dumb luck.

I cut most of my spalted wood into blanks for spindles, boxes, etc. My biggest block is about 7x7x10". This is some of my turning stock that would fit on the sander, some not yet dry.

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Keeping wood white: Some people say cool temperature important. Some say kiln dry as soon as possible, not much use with spalting. Regardless of what I do some things like Holly get a green or grey stain. Maybe the time of year it's cut has some effect.

[CHARLES D Richards]

ok John, I can tell you what I know pretty quick 'cause it's not much. I forgot to mention that I don't always put dirt on the top of the log, I'm really not sure it makes any difference. Obviously the dirt is problematic with cutting part of the end off the log to check for spalting since my chain saws don't like dirt.

I cut most of my logs 4-6 inches longer than the diameter, so if the log is 17 inches in diameter I cut it no shorter than 21-24 inches long. For me it doesn't make any difference how long the log piece is just want to be able to handle it.

So, when I cut a piece off the end, as you mentioned, I just flip the log over on its side and cut off 1/2 inch or so. Either end for the cut, not big deal. If it's not ready it gets flipped back up on its end for another month. Like you, I cut up left over pieces of bowl blanks and other spalted pieces for smaller projects.

The wood I work with in my area that spalts pretty easily is:

river birch
pecan
hickory
maple
magnolia
bay
oak
poplar( for me it takes a little longer than 6 months- more like 12 months)- love to see mushrooms growing on any log of mine cause 90% of the time its spalted
bradford pear- not much character change for me.
dogwood- I know you like this wood after reading some of your posts
camphor- not that dramatic

I forgot to mention that I have tried covering the wood with a tarp and putting the logs on a pallet instead of the ground. At least at this point I don't think any of that helps. Not a scientific experiment but just an observation. I have read that the fungus in everywhere so if the wood has a potential to spalt I guess it will do it not matter how I help.

I'm just trying to grow a perpetual spalt garden 'cause I like the way it looks..... never tasted it mind you.

here is a spalted poplar bowl that was one of the prettiest I have seen with the golds, pinks, greens, blacks. Almost wish I had kept that bowl. Let me know if you need anything else.

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[John K Jordan]

ok John, I can tell you what I know pretty quick 'cause it's not much...


It's a goldmine, thanks. The meat from your messages is going into a file here.

You are good at bowls! Some people look down on y. poplar but I like it - dries quickly, stable, fine grain. And I probably have at least 8 on the property here close to or over 3' in diameter. Much is bland, of course, but sometimes there are beautiful colors in the heartwood.

I've had some accidental luck with spalting yellow poplar here, thin, crisp black lines on a light background that didn't stain. And some with oak. I've got a huge amount of white oak and hickory down now which I might try with your techniques. Once I did discover some "unfarmed" spalting in some oak burl from what I call a buttress around the base of the tree. I'd like to get some more spalted burl but I have a real hard time with the idea of putting burls in the dirt to rot. !!

You might be the perfect person to develop some scientific methods (in your spare time!) and develop a guaranteed method with controlled temperature, humidity, fungi culture, magic incantation...

I often have some of the other species you listed too and a bunch of others. I don't cut trees on my property for wood but if they come down or people give me logs I'll try them all. I think I'll level a spot in the woods near the shop where I get the little truck in close and can stand up log sections in rows. I'll try to keep good notes this time. To be continued... :-)

Years ago there was a lot of discussion on another forum about this and people had all kinds of recipes including mulching with a poultice of leaf mold, dirt, manure, beer, and urine. From my experience just keeping it warm and wet worked as well as anything so I think what you said about the spores makes sense.

Just for fun, here are a couple of "Profile" lidded mugs I made for my son and wife, I think hackberry and maple.

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JKJ

[CHARLES D Richards]

John, I had a reply to you a couple of hours ago but something happened and it did not show up, so I'll try again.

If you have a log standing end up, after 6 months I roll it over on its side and cut the top end off ( 1/2 to 1") just to visualize the wood. I really don't know if putting dirt on top of the log helps or not Honestly, I have had it spalt either way. I have also tried a tarp over logs sitting on a pallet and can't see a lot of difference. Sometimes I do stack end on pieces on top of each other so help spalting thinking that the moisture coming out of the endgrain staws helps the piece on the bottom spalt quicker. Not sure about that either. From what I've read the fungus is everywhere so the key for me is to get it spalt with as little punky wood as possible. It seems the more you would cover up the wood with leaves, etc the easier it would be to let it get to far in the process before you realized it.

I have some magnolia logs outside the shop end up sitting on a plastic pallet and they spalted in about 6 months. Most of the time I do use Anchorseal on the ends before stacking end up and it doesn't seem to matter with the outcome.

I guess each geographical area could be different but the method I indicated in the other post seems to work consistently for me and maybe the less we do the better condition the wood will be in after 6 months. It seems that the important part is having a system to check it after 6 months and the every couple of months so you can catch it at the right time.

Your question about the short list is not different than anyone else. I will list the ones I most often use but of course many other could be on the list.

river birch
maple
magnolia
bay
hickory
sweet gum
black gum
poplar

These are my favorites but pecan, dogwood, bradford pear and others could be on the list.

My goal is to continually tend my spalt garden so there is always a nice harvest

here is a couple of spalted poplar bowls and a typical spalting in magnolia
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cheers,
Dave

[John K Jordan]

John, I had a reply to you a couple of hours ago but something happened and it did not show up, so I'll try again.

Dave, you did post the other message - I read and already copied much of it into my Spalting file. (You add a few more tidbits in this message!)

Maybe the message was pushed to a second page or something? I see it there now, followed by a reply of mine where I post a picture of some little profile turnings.

The second bowl you show in this message really has some unusual color and figure. And the vase looks huge! If it's as big as it looks then I've never seen spalted wood that large. Oh, with a second look I see it's sitting on a table - at first I thought it was on the floor. Is it about 16" high or so?

Out walking back from the horse pasture today I saw a dogwood log on the ground I forgot about, there about a year. Now I want to grab the chainsaw and see if it is too far gone yet!

JKJ

[CHARLES D Richards]

Sorry, John, I just realized why my posts don't show up as I was not replying to the thread but only to you. Pardon my confusion.

[Bob Bouis]

I'm not sure about spalting, but I know for sure that sapstain fungus enters most readily through cut end grain. So you might get some advantage by not anchor sealing the ends of the logs, at least not right away.

[Bob Bouis]

This thread motivated me to go grab some more sweet gum. There were six trees cut, three had no heartwood to speak of (6" heartwood in a 20-24" log). The others were smaller but had a bit better figure. Won't need to wait for these to spalt.

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BTW if anybody's in Jackson, MS, and wants some wood. Please help me! I am drowning in it.

[John K Jordan]

BTW if anybody's in Jackson, MS, and wants some wood. Please help me! I am drowning in it.

Do you process and dry turning blanks too?

Since most green wood left in rounds will go "bad" (splits) fairly quickly, when I am drowning in wood I try to take time to process some of it into turning blanks for everything from thin spindles to boxes to bowl blanks. I let these dry on wire shelves and properly sealed most of them survive. Much of the wood I'm turning now I processed from 2002 to 2010 and is now dry - walnut, cherry, holly, persimmon, sycamore, c.chestnut, dogwood, bradford pear, ERC, oak, hickory, and more.

A couple of shelves from one of my drying racks. I like to write the name of the wood and the date on each piece.

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When I run the WoodMizer behind the barn I also cut slabs and thick planks (up to 16/4) and air dry these. Makes great turning stock. I cut up some 2" persimmon just a few minutes ago from a plank I put up to dry in 2006.

This provides more wood that I can turn in my lifetime and lots to give away. I have a hard time giving away green wood but NEVER when it's dry.

This is from one round of Sassafras.

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I have about 50 ft of that tree left to cut into if I get time, and 4 larger trees and a nice walnut log. Drowning in wood.

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

Sounds like you might be a wood hoarder. I wonder what that's like!

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And that's not counting the bowls. I counted over a hundred rough outs -- just in cherry! Couldn't just let it go to waste.

My problem is that I live in the 'burbs and even though I have 1300 sq ft of garage space (plus a 400 sq ft attic with real stairs and some outdoor storage), I am loaded down. I have 1500 bd ft of walnut stickered (bought it, didn't cut it myself), plus turning blanks, etc. I have been holding onto it because, supposedly, my father is going to build a new barn any day now, and it's going to go in there eventually. For now it's driving me nuts.

[John K Jordan]

Sounds like you might be a wood hoarder. I wonder what that's like!


I thought for a minute you had pictures of my place. I use the same shelves and tubs - when I moved from my garage down the hill to the new shop I moved most of the wood but right now there are at least 15 tubs still in the back of the garage. The new shop is 28x62 and I already started drawing up plans for an addition for, gasp, more wood.

Fortunately I live on a farm with plenty of room. At the moment, besides tripping over wood in the shop, the wood storage wing is full, and there is wood in the maintenance bays. I have wood stored in 6 other buildings and trailers I use as storage buildings. Already there is enough wood for four lifetimes of turning, yet I buy more exotics at every chance. Trade for wood. People send wood to me from across the country. People I meet see turnings and give me wood their grandfather had. I visit people and they load wood in my truck. Then I start up the sawmill...

The great thing about it is a visitor never goes home empty handed. One friend drove back to the hardwood wood-starved southwest with her station wagon so full of wood slabs the frame was on the axles. However, another friend would not even take any cocobolo - he had just driven across country and pulled wood from the floorboards of the car for me. He would not take one piece of wood or any tools. He just kept saying "Coals to Newcastle, coals to Newcastle."

I'm really trying to do better. I just started a 12-step program for my addiction: Step one, move some wood into the barn loft to make room for some more in the shop. Step two, visit Pete at Big Monk next weekend at the TAW...

JKJ

[CHARLES D Richards]

ok guys, here's a little more encouragement to cut some sweet gum and have a little patience to allow it to spalt. I cut up another log today, 17 inches in diameter, and roughed out these 2 bowls that ended up being 16" x 7". Sometimes it's amazing to see the difference in wood on the opposite side of the same log.

cheers,
Dave

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[Mike Turner]

Beautiful piece!!!!! What kind of camera did you use?

[John K Jordan]

Beautiful piece!!!!! What kind of camera did you use?

Thank you Mike!

The camera I use now is a Canon 70D - that shot was with a Canon 100mm macro lens, tripod, wired shutter release, manual focus.
(It's this lens, if anyone is interested: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NEGTSI )

I was surprised by the quality of this camera and I keep running into people who use them. I took some llamas to a TV studio last year for a commercial and noticed the they were using the same camera for the "footage"!

This is my third digital SLR after many years of film and darkrooms. (anyone need a 4x5 Crown Graphic?) Life is so, so, so much simpler now. (At least the photograph part...)

JKJ

[Damon McLaughlin]

Do logs still need to be green to be "planted" for spalting? Or can one take a dry log and plant it? My challenge where I live is that the soil is very sandy, is keeping it moist important? I would love to try spalting some of the wood I have if I can (pine, cottonwood, birch). Thanks.

[CHARLES D Richards]

Do logs still need to be green to be "planted" for spalting? Or can one take a dry log and plant it? My challenge where I live is that the soil is very sandy, is keeping it moist important? I would love to try spalting some of the wood I have if I can (pine, cottonwood, birch). Thanks.


David, at least to my understanding you need moisture to have wood spalt so green wood is better. Remember that wood dries at 1 inch per year according to what I've been taught so even wood that appears to be dry on the ends may not be dry an inch or two into the wood. What I would suggest is put the logs end up on the ground ( you don't have to put them on dirt, see pics below) just make sure they have dirt contact. Or you could put them on a pallet end up and wait it out. In my area it takes about 6 months to spalt so patience is golden. Just experiment with whatever woods you want to, if it doesn't work after 6-8 months then you can just turn the wood anyway.

Here's a couple of pics of some piles of wood on either side of my shop door. One is one concrete and the other is on a plastic palate. The magnolia log (not cut) on the top in the first picture has already spalted after 6-7 months it it never was on the dirt, just on top of another log. I sometimes date the logs so I know they been there at least 6 months. It is possible that spalting times could be different in your area.

hope this helps,
Dave

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[brian zawatsky]

How do you keep your logs from checking to the point of being unusable?

[John K Jordan]

How do you keep your logs from checking to the point of being unusable?

Me? This may be way more than you wanted to know but someone may be interested. :)

I wax the ends with Anchorseal as soon as the tree is cut, and store the logs out of the sun until I can make turning blanks or fire up my sawmill. I mostly turn dry wood and prefer spindle work, boxes, and other small things.

I cut chunks up as soon as possible into turning blanks, wax the ends well (and wax certain sides, depending) and set them up to dry. I mostly turn smaller things but do cut some larger bowl blanks which mostly survive. If left in the round, almost all tree sections will check and split, some worse than others.

Simply cutting a log section in half down the pith gives the wood room to move and warp from the stress instead of crack. Cutting a saw kerf down the length all the way to the pith is the next best thing. The smaller the pieces are cut into, the more likely they will dry without cracking. Note that when I prepare blanks I cut away any existing checks or cracks on the ends. If left on the blanks they can propagate easily. (For anyone who might not know how to check if they are removed completely, just cut a thin slice off the end and bend it and see if it breaks easily along a crack. If it does, cut some more off.) If a crack appears to go deeply into the wood I cut my losses and make smaller blanks out of it.

I wax the sides of certain species known to be problematic, usually on the sides where rings are closer to tangent (opposite of quartersawn surfaces) where the shrinking stresses are the highest. I also wax transitions between heartwood and sapwood on certain species known for excessive shrinkage. (e.g. dogwood)

When I prepare a blank, I always mark the species and the month/year on the side. This tells me how long it's been drying AND keeps me from guessing what kind of wood it is!

After the turning squares dry some (months or years) I put them back on the sawmill and cut away any warpage and any end cracks that have developed. This not only give be better squares to work with but shows me what the figure looks like on the sides and reveals any defects. If I decide to keep them with the defects, I mark each defect with a red Sharpie so I won't over look it when I turn it someday.

All this doesn't help much for who turn mostly turn bowls, hollow forms, and natural edged things green wood. The answer is you usually can't easily prevent short log sections from self destructing over time. Seal immediately and well, of course. Cut to the desired blank size as soon as possible. At least cut in half or make a chainsaw cut down one side to the center. Keeping the pieces cool, out of the weather, and in the shade can help delay the inevitable. Keeping the ends wet can help some. (The spalting methods discussed keep the end on the ground wet. I cover the other end and pour water on it when it gets dry.) John Lucas reports good success wrapping big green blanks with plastic wrap, leaving the bark and bottom unwrapped. There are some good things you can do for long-term storage that are impractical for most people: Freeze the wood, it will last forever. (I've done this for small chunks.) Immerse them in water (ponding), changing the water often. (Some people have used 55-gallon drums for this.) Timber has been dredged up from the bottom of lakes and creeks that is still in perfect condition. A wood dealer from South American told me they boil all their wood blanks and roughed bowls. (Boiling apparently softens the lignum and makes the wood more elastic.) The last method I know: stick to very stable species! (sassafras and eastern red cedar are my favorites for this.)

The best advice probably comes from two people. One expert, Steven Russell, recommends something he learned the hard way: never acquire more green wood than you can turn in a week or two. In some parts of the country green wood is so abundant there is always more. It is easy to take more than you can use and end up with piles of rotting firewood.

The other advice comes from the other John Jordan woodturner in TN, the famous one. He says he never gets wood in short log sections. He buys and pays someone to deliver the entire log, sets it up off the ground, and keeps as cool as possible and out of the sun. When he is ready to turn something he cuts off 6" with the chainsaw and throws it away, inspects the newly exposed end of the log, and if it is OK he cuts off what he needs for just this one turning. This is the way he always works and it always works. This method might be difficult for those who don't have room to keep whole logs or like a huge variety of species. BTW, he does store chunks of wet wood for a short time (a day or so) by wrapping them in plastic like saran wrap, for example, to carry to a demo or class. He gave me one of his hollow form blanks that was wrapped up like this.

OK, I quit now!

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

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It's tough to wrap your head around the idea that saving the best for last isn't the right way to go about it, but I'd add that you ought to turn or cut the best pieces first. Speaking of...

Also, to quibble a little, in my experience cutting a log into halves is usually not a good idea unless you plan to eventually cut it into quarters. After cutting in half you have a week or so before a crack forms from the center at a 90 degree angle to your cut.

[brian zawatsky]

<img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=352466"/> <img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=352467"/> It's tough to wrap your head around the idea that saving the best for last isn't the right way to go about it, but I'd add that you ought to turn or cut the best pieces first. Speaking of... Also, to quibble a little, in my experience cutting a log into halves is usually not a good idea unless you plan to eventually cut it into quarters. After cutting in half you have a week or so before a crack forms from the center at a 90 degree angle to your cut.

Wow Bob that is beautiful, you hit the jackpot on that log. What kind of wood is that?

[Bob Bouis]

It's just sweet gum. Some trees have almost no heartwood and some have lots. That one had lots, though I'm not sure if it is all true heartwood. Sometimes you see sweetgum with figured rings in the sapwood. This one looks like it had them and had darkened sapwood between that and the heartwood. Maybe it was discolored because the tree was unhealthy, or maybe it transitioning to heartwood. I have no idea.

There were six logs there and only the three small ones had figure like this. The rest had almost no heartwood to speak of.

I have seen sweet gum trees that have very little heartwood at the base and more the further up you go, which makes no sense to me, but it's a real phenomenon. So always check up six or eight feet if you have the chance.

[John K Jordan]

Also, to quibble a little, in my experience cutting a log into halves is usually not a good idea unless you plan to eventually cut it into quarters. After cutting in half you have a week or so before a crack forms from the center at a 90 degree angle to your cut.

"Usually" may be the key, or perhaps even "sometimes". In my experience much of how a given log section behaves depends on the species and some is the individual tree. I've had cherry that started to crack an hour after felling and some from one particular cherry tree that refused to crack even when left in the sun. Years later one 18" round left outside still has nothing but minor end checking. Go figure. (I hope I see another cherry like that some day! Besides the stability, that tree had amazing color and figure.)

Dogwood is one that left in the round will "usually" split down to the pith and then the split will open up to form a huge gap as the wood dries out. The wood is otherwise so strong that cutting the log section in half or even making a single saw cut lets me control where the stresses are relieved. It is usually recommended to not only cut in half but to remove a slice out of the middle that contains the pith. The thickness of the slice depends on the diameter and experience with that species. I don't do this since my rounds go very soon to the bandsaw where I decide how to best section. Removing a center slices limits what I can do within each half.

For anyone interested in wood, I highly recommend R. Bruce Hoadley's book "Understanding Wood".
https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Wood-Craftsmans-Guide-Technology-ebook/dp/B004WYO862

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

My problem is that I live in the 'burbs and even though I have 1300 sq ft of garage space (plus a 400 sq ft attic with real stairs and some outdoor storage), I am loaded down. I have 1500 bd ft of walnut stickered (bought it, didn't cut it myself), plus turning blanks, etc. I have been holding onto it because, supposedly, my father is going to build a new barn any day now, and it's going to go in there eventually. For now it's driving me nuts.

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Let the wood hoarding resume!

[John Hart]

Beautiful little piece John. Love it.

Oh...and also love the picture of the bee. Nice shot!!

[John K Jordan]

Beautiful little piece John. Love it.
Oh...and also love the picture of the bee. Nice shot!!

Thanks! I've enjoyed photography for over 50 years now, maybe 5 darkrooms and a pile of cameras. Digital sure has made things easier! Shoot 500-600 photos at a wedding these days - no problem.

Last time I checked I had over 56,000 pictures in my photo directories; I can't even imagine paying for that much film, let alone the processing. Some of my favorites are of animals.

Photos of the bees are among the most difficult I've ever attempted. I feel fortunate to have gotten some keepers.

JKJ