Would an Earlex Sprayport 6002 make sense for what I need to do?

[Dave Schreib]

I am a DIY/woodworking hobbyist. Most of my projects have been things like mudroom benches, built in closet systems, etc. Typically I have painted these with latex paint and a brush/roller - and been happy with the results. I have used latex paint simply because it's what I am familiar with.

We are building a new house and I have 4-5 of these projects lined up. I recently saw an ad for the Earlex Sprayport 6002 (2 stage) sprayer and got thinking that it might be a good edition to my tool collection.

I read that a 2 stage unit would not be great for latex paint. I also read that there are other finish options that would get me that white painted look by using other finishing products - but I dont know what those are.

So if the goal is to have a nice white finish on these types of projects is there a product that I can spray on with an Earlex Sprayport 6002 that will give me a better result than what I can do with a brush/roller? As an aside, I might like to build myself some office furniture some day and the sprayer would also be used for that project.

Thanks

[John TenEyck]

I have no experience with an Earlex, so take this for what it's worth. Most people think you need at least a 3 stage turbine, but a lot of others report good results with the Earlex 5500 (I think; a 5000 series for sure), and that is a lower end unit than the 6200 - on sale at Peachtree right now.

You definitely want something other than latex wall paint when painting cabinets and furniture, regardless of how you apply it. WB Acrylic trim paint is a big step up, such as SW's ProClassic; or WB oil emulsion paint such as BM's Advance are both very good paints. They go on beautifully with a brush, fine roller, or by spraying. For spraying you likely will need to thin them unless you have a gun specifically designed to handle their high viscosity. In the spray only catagory, GF's White Enduro Poly sprays beautifully, again with a gun designed for its high viscosity. Are you getting the idea that most paint type products have a high viscosity? Most do. However, there are lower viscosity, WB alternatives, such as ML Campbell's Aqualente, which has a viscosity of only 35 seconds #4 Ford cup, no higher than many clear finishes.

My advise is to research which products you'd like to use and buy a gun that is capable of spraying them w/o thinning, or with minimal thinning. A pressurized cup is almost a must for the higher viscosity products, and I believe the Earlex has that feature. You will also need to match the needle/nozzle to the paint viscosity, so make sure the gun you buy comes with what you need, or that you can buy other combinations for it. And, most importantly, you absolutely need to be able to measure the viscosity of what you want to spray, so buy yourself a cheap $6 #4 Ford cup. Don't believe the viscosity info. the manufacturers put on their literature; while it's often accurate, sometimes it's way off.

John

[Dave Schreib]

Thanks. My preference would be to use a product that I can buy locally and have tinted to whatever I am using. ML Campbell apparently has a distributor in Syracuse. Dont know whether they sell retail or not but I will find out.

[John TenEyck]

As far as I know ML Campbell only sells through distributors. PondCove carries their products, but will only ship to a business address, which may or may not work for you.

BM's Advance is available at any of their stores and in BM's full color palette, two reasons I like it. It's also not expensive compared to most other alternatives available to me.

John

[Dave Schreib]

OK, Purcell's paints in E. Syracuse carries Benjamin Moore and I like dealing with them. So, if my plan was to use their Advance product, it sounds like you would advise brushing it on rather than using that 2 stage sprayer?

[John TenEyck]

Well, a three stage rig would be better, but the 2 stage may still be adequate; I just don't know. Maybe some folks here will step in and provide feedback on whether they have successfully sprayed Advance with a 2 stage turbine. My guess is it will work if you can be a N/N to match the viscosity. I have a pressure assisted HVLP conversion gun. Advance sprays beautifully with no thinning with 5 psi pressure on the paint and a 1.5 mm N/N. I think you will need at least a 1 5 mm N/N set for the Earlex, and possibly larger.

Sorry I can't offer anything concrete other than to say spray if at all possible. The quality of finish you can get by spraying just can't be replicated by hand, at least not by me. Of course, to spray you need to have a place to spray to deal with the overspray. It need not be fancy, but it's a requirement, so factor that into your decision process.

John

[Mike Henderson]

I've shot latex paint with a gravity feed gun with a 2mm tip. I thinned the paint a bit with water. The gun was a conversion gun run off a regular air compressor.

I was very satisfied with the results. Certainly better than I would have achieved with a brush.

Mike

[If you have an air compressor, look into conversion guns. You can try the Harbor Freight one (low price) but I don't know if they offer a big tip (2mm or larger).]

[Dave Schreib]

Thanks for all the responses.

Mike Henderson - I do have a compressor but since I have never used a spray gun or even seen one used, I am trying to minimize the variables that I have to consider. If I use my compressor and a HF gun and get a crummy result I wont know if its due to the gun, the compressor, the tip, the finish or the user. If I buy an all in one system I reduce the number of decisions that can go wrong.

I see that I can get an Earlex HV5500 for less than the Sprayport 6002. John says that he has heard of people getting good results with that unit and their web site says that it sprays thinned latex. Would it be reasonable to assume that it would also do a good job with thinner finishes?

Is it fair to say that my desire to spray paint is what makes this decision a challenge? Seems like there are many systems that will spray more typical woodworking finishes but the paint is what makes this choice tough.

Thanks for your patience.

[Prashun Patel]

If you are building furniture and cabinetry then there are better solid color finishes than latex paint.

An HVLP system (or a compressor with gun - just make sure the compressor is large enough...) will open your world to be able to spray many water-based finishes. Each of these are more durable, harder, and less sticky than latex paint. These finishes usually cost more than latex, but are still a relatively small part of the cost of any project. A lower-end spray system can even spray shellac and home-center lacquer reliably.

I own the Fuji Semi Pro and the the Rockler HVLP (which is the same as the Harbor Freight and Woodcraft version I think). I suspect the Semipro is similar to the Earlex Sprayport 6002. They look almost identical except for the color. Both are sufficient for spraying the above items. I achieve - what I perceive as - relatively professional-looking finishes with both.

What the more expensive units get you is more bells and whistles, more solid/durable components, and most critically - the ability to spray a wider variety of finishes. Specifically, spraying oil-based varnishes and polyurethane is problematic with smaller units. BUT, if you pick the right finish - and there are plenty - then the avid hobbyist can achieve great results with the cheaper units too.

[John TenEyck]

Dave, how large is your compressor? What's it's output at 40 psi? If it can output even as little as 5 cfm at 40 psi you can get an excellent finish. At 10 cfm you have a very wide range of options. A LVLP or HVLP conversion gun gives you the greatest versatility for the least amount of money. Going with a turbine unit will not really narrow the number of variables or instantly make you a better spray finisher. But I know exactly where you are coming from with the confusion when looking at matching a gun with a compressor. I was exactly there about 6 years ago. No one to go to for advise, what goes with what, on and on. I finally dove in and bought a low end set of guns and learned what worked and what didn't. I learned to spray well and create some very acceptable finishes. Eventually I moved up to a higher end gun with more capability and that's where I recommend you start.

I now have a Qualspray AM-6002 SmartPak HVLP gun with 3M/PPS cup system. It will spray everything from shellac to BM Advance w/o thinning, beautifully. That gun requires 10 cfm at 40 psi, but there is an LVLP version that only requires around 6.5 cfm IIRC, and it sprays just as well but with a slightly narrower fan width. Call Jeff Jewitt at Homestead Finishing and discuss your situation with him, see what he recommends, and go from there. Make your decision of what to buy with full knowledge of what's available.

John

[Andy Giddings]

+1 on John's comment - Jeff's book on spraying is also an excellent primer when you're a novice

[Mike Henderson]

And don't forget that most spraying is not continuous, which gives the compressor time to "catch up". All compressors have a reservoir which you use when using air. The compressor cuts in when the pressure falls. If the area you're spraying is limited - say to the side of a piece of furniture - you can do that very well before the air in the reservoir is used up.

Then wait until the compressor catches up and cuts off before continuing your spraying.

Mike

[Jack Clark]

Dave,

Ask your Benjamin Moore dealer about this product: Benjamin Moore Paint Extender 518. It's sort of like FloTrol, except, in my experience, much better. I've used it to thin various heavy waterborne products (house paint, heavy clears, etc.) with excellent results. It does not seem to alter the final sheen (FloTrol does). I've used it to thin other waterborne coatings besides Benjamin Moore products, specifically a very tough acrylic from PPG called BreakThrough. It's worth a look.

Take John's sage advice and purchase a viscosity cup as your very first spray finishing tool. That simple little device will teach you a lot. :)

https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/interior-exterior-paints-stains/product-catalog/bmpe/benjamin-moore-paint-extender

Always test on scrap...!

[Dave Schreib]

My compressor is a Rigid. The label says 4.5 gallon, 6.2 scfm @90 psi and 150 psi max.

I dont know how to figure out what the output would be at 40 psi.

(Edit - with some googling I think I discovered that getting 6.2 cfm @90 psi means that I would get at least that, and likely more at 40 psi.)

[John TenEyck]

My compressor is a Rigid. The label says 4.5 gallon, 6.2 scfm @90 psi and 150 psi max.

I dont know how to figure out what the output would be at 40 psi.

(Edit - with some googling I think I discovered that getting 6.2 cfm @90 psi means that I would get at least that, and likely more at 40 psi.)


Oh, that's pretty small and probably oilless?. But if you've got 6.2 scfm at 90 psi, then you'll have more than that at 40 psi, so you could use it with the Qualspray LVLP gun I mentioned, but you'd want to add a receiver between the gun and compressor to increase your air reservoir and reduce cycling (and early death) of the compressor. On the other hand, you can buy a HF 21 gal oil lubed compressor for $180, and 20% off that with a coupon, that will supply 5.8 cfm at 40 psi.

Whether the conversion gun or turbine unit is the best choice for your needs - only you can decide that.

John

[Rob Young]

I have a 4 stage unit from Turbine Products, A401. Very happy with it. I did some comparison shopping by borrowing time on a high end Apollo and a 3-stage (I think it was 3) Fuji.

Other than price, the biggest difference to me was that the A401 comes with a bleeder gun. According to tech support from Turbine Products, I could put on a non-bleeder gun as the turbine has a bypass valve but it will shorten the life of the turbine. After a little practice, I just haven't been bothered by the continuous air flow. In fact, it came in handy at least once as a quick way to blow off some crud that has settled. I spray outdoors so there are risks of settling crud, but so far no bird poop.

Keep in mind that there are extra costs involved with any system. The cost of the needle/nozzle sets for example. In the case of the A401, sets are $30 each. Compare that to the price for Earlex, Apollo and Fuji sets which can push $70 each.

All in, I got a 4-stage rig plus 3 extra N/N sets plus some other odds and ends and shipping for right around $650. For maybe $550 you could load up with a 3-stage unit, extra N/N sets, replacement gaskets, etc.

[Curt Harms]

Thanks for all the responses.

Mike Henderson - I do have a compressor but since I have never used a spray gun or even seen one used, I am trying to minimize the variables that I have to consider. If I use my compressor and a HF gun and get a crummy result I wont know if its due to the gun, the compressor, the tip, the finish or the user. If I buy an all in one system I reduce the number of decisions that can go wrong.

I see that I can get an Earlex HV5500 for less than the Sprayport 6002. John says that he has heard of people getting good results with that unit and their web site says that it sprays thinned latex. Would it be reasonable to assume that it would also do a good job with thinner finishes?

Is it fair to say that my desire to spray paint is what makes this decision a challenge? Seems like there are many systems that will spray more typical woodworking finishes but the paint is what makes this choice tough.

Thanks for your patience.

I've sprayed old wall paint with an Earlex 5000. The application was very much utility, not fine furniture. I used a 2 mm tip and thinned with distilled water & floetrol. I make sure to filter whatever I spray. I overcoated the 'latex' with water based poly. It worked but I'm sure something intended for spraying like water base tinted lacquer would be a better choice. The Earlex guns are pressure feed which I suspect is critical for thicker materials. IMO there is no substitute for experimenting with spray equipment. Large pieces of cardboard are handy.

[Dave Schreib]

If I was to go with this gun http://www.ebay.com/itm/QualSpray-AM-6008-LVLP-SPRAY-Package-Woodworking-/252394411361?hash=item3ac3e11561 and my compressor, what else would I need to get spraying? Accessories, hoses, etc?

Thanks

[John TenEyck]

If I was to go with this gun http://www.ebay.com/itm/QualSpray-AM-6008-LVLP-SPRAY-Package-Woodworking-/252394411361?hash=item3ac3e11561 and my compressor, what else would I need to get spraying? Accessories, hoses, etc?

Thanks

You will need a hose long enough to spray whatever you want. The larger then hose and shorter, the better; go with at least 3/8". You will need an air regulator within about 30 ft of the gun to control the gun inlet pressure. The regulator on the gun only controls the cup pressure. If your compressor is nearby you could just use its regulator. You also will need a way to remove any oil/water contamination so it doesn't get into your spray air. I use the cheap little ones from HF that cost less than $5 and screw on to the gun inlet. They last a really long time for me - years, but it will depend upon how much water is coming from your compressor. Of course you need a #4 Ford viscosity cup, too, which costs about $6. You will need some paper filters, too. I buy them by the 100 at HF. And you'll need a place to spray so that contamination doesn't get onto your work and is safe from blowing yourself up if you choose to spray solvent based products, and to contain the overspray. With WB products it's easier, and that's all I spray, but you still need a way to exhaust overspray to keep it off your freshly sprayed work. And you will need a good respirator with organics cartridges, regardless of what you spray. So you don't need a lot, actually, but they are all critical to good results and maintaining a safe and healthy environment to spray.

I'm sure you will be pleased with that gun.

John

[Dave Schreib]

Could you talk some more about the spray area? My workshop right now is my garage in Syracuse NY. I have 2 propane heaters that can get the temp up to about 60 on cold days but I cant keep it there for more than 12 hrs or so. My garage is also where I make my saw dust so it's pretty dusty. I also have the problem of containing any over spray (this is actually a rental home). In the new house I will be able to cordon off some basement space for finishing but right now I am stuck in the garage. What would I need to do to make this space acceptable in terms of cleanliness, temperature and overspray protection? Thanks

[Andy Giddings]

Dave, if the area is dusty, I would recommend waiting for it to settle and using a vac to clean up as much as possible in your chosen area for finishing (regardless of whether you spray or use some other method). There are various designs for knock down spray booths and some people don't even bother with that. When I started, I hung disposable drop cloths up in the garage as a backdrop and a drop cloth over the floor to form an open ended tent look. I cut a hole in the backdrop and mounted a box fan behind it to exhaust the air out through the garage window. The main reason for the fan is to take overspray away from the piece you are finishing, and avoid dried overspray settling throughout the garage as a light adhesive dust. You'll be wearing a face mask so the fan is not really for you.

Temp wise you need to look at the instructions for the material you are spraying. If you can't get the ideal conditions, you can still spray but it will take longer to dry and cure. I wouldn't recommend below 60. Also, when you're using heaters and exhausting outside, you're going to be disposing of your nice warm air. Get the garage up to temp first, turn off the heaters, spray then turn the heaters on again after the air has cleared and you can shut down the exhaust.

Depending upon when you are moving to your new place, all of this setup may seem less than worthwhile until you get there

[John TenEyck]

What Andy said. You need to clean up but you don't need to go nuts. Most sprayed products dry quickly (except BM Advance) so dust is not that much of an issue unless you stir it up while spraying. I spray in my basement shop an hour after making sawdust and don't have problems. I use plastic sheeting hung from the ceiling joists and brown paper on the floor. You definitely need exhaust as Andy said to carry away the over spray. A box fan will work fine in your garage setup, just don't bother with filters in front of it because they will plug up. Overspray won't hurt the fan and even if it does they are cheap.

Temp. is a huge issue for curing. If you plan to spray WB products (and I would not spray solvent based through a box fan although I know it's done by some brave souls that are still here) they have minimum cure temps., around 60 F for some products, even higher for others. So definitely do as Andy suggested to avoid heartache. Shellac you can spray at nearly any temp. however and it will be fine.

John

[John TenEyck]

I actually have the AM-6008 SmartPak HVLP gun, not a 6002 (I don't know if that even exists). Sorry for any confusion.

John

[Dave Schreib]

"I actually have the AM-6008 SmartPak HVLP gun, not a 6002 (I don't know if that even exists). Sorry for any confusion." That's what I figured.

I actually decided to hold off on the spray gun for now. Mostly because I do not have an acceptable place to spray in the rental and in the new house I will only have an acceptable place (the garage) in the warmer months. I will have a basement workshop but it will not have any real ventilation.

I just bought a gallon of BM Advance and I am going to drag my pieces from the garage (37 degrees here today) into the dining room to paint. Thanks for all the advice.

[John TenEyck]

"I actually have the AM-6008 SmartPak HVLP gun, not a 6002 (I don't know if that even exists). Sorry for any confusion." That's what I figured.

I actually decided to hold off on the spray gun for now. Mostly because I do not have an acceptable place to spray in the rental and in the new house I will only have an acceptable place (the garage) in the warmer months. I will have a basement workshop but it will not have any real ventilation.

I just bought a gallon of BM Advance and I am going to drag my pieces from the garage (37 degrees here today) into the dining room to paint. Thanks for all the advice.

You don't necessarily need much "real ventilation" to have adequate ventilation. Let me explain. If you use a box fan for ventilation you will need a window as large as the fan. That would a case of needing real ventilation. But if you use a blower you can vent it through a much smaller opening. I only have a vent window in my basement shop, just wide enough that I can jamb a 5" plastic hose through it. I run that to the fan of my dust collector, which is rated at about 1200 cfm. That all sounds inadequate but I have no overspray problems with my temporary spray booth, which is pretty large. I bypass the bags and run another hose from the back of my spray booth to the fan inlet.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Fmwm-yejYEp-tf6zw0Tlk0ZLJIGFIuw5d5arDQXXBDXw5yPCwIdbIyxrUXxKxa CVMWV0K7JoTYc40MegQVAwsHbdwHy-BE6OsI0HhaUqdpa1mCow3Js7SF9om3jE3rog-MzqbagjYGCmuoX0G6bXmYScd_af1AFkMKpgR2lGYiR4z4xtdSM cReLMfKTQJCr0V0YNsVNurPMEoW8mQlQoh7doVvOls20mCP7a_ bIsFp0uXaScTmr05OP0ZUfJGWi6qk6DFd0USq8YBEvKqHFFsL6 klOYIJpgZXYcmZsH3VR0hR0AOfF6YGPgxVNJ2aGU_TqW7LIWyx QSOM4Mif2TJoJdtFgupfthfSkG9ANgx3htUjzgbQ6tzAd8lLIE Ty6FqGhRIUEbdca1jPhlMjndGH4_cpcuM6MBUd-rID39oqmSWlmMkTA_7yR8_OZXnqabJlTZNoDtY3lkR-gKtjHRVbfecK5bbgTN3oQX1-a-Cu7sn6gIUmHKvz1cw1JsnJC9_7mlXE1SLbJVtrdnEqr-Z6JTxZRYJjAe6NdePIw6BMu8BkbT2M3Cw-JQzIo1o_8ewyhCal0gAv0_aO8uETw8EuUnUJ4ulgzJ5rDwfhi4 LODUz9DuxBybGT9ELdT9NzeAHdphqbo1VZjGCwi8NlC0sTPa_o fiekMreEqv_VVP2b74=w273-h365-no

You will be able to spray year round in your basement shop - with just a little bit of planning to make sure you have a vent port.

John

[Mike Henderson]

Very nice, interesting door, John. I like the way you divided the glass.

Mike

[John TenEyck]

Very nice, interesting door, John. I like the way you divided the glass.

Mike


Thanks Mike. It's actually one of two arched French doors I'm working on, plus a companion rectangular one, to match some doors/trim in a house. The tempered glass lites are truly divided. It was quite a build process w/o a shaper to make and fit the molded muntins. I'll post some pictures when they are all done and installed in a couple of weeks. By the way, the wood is Sapele and was my first time using it. Beautiful stuff.

John