Best 25k or 50k Workshop?

[Tim Boettcher]

Looking to invest $25k to 50k in my workshop (i.e. buy new most likely)

Have about 20x40' to work with.

My goal will be to mostly make household furniture, built-ins, some cabinetry etc.

I don't currently have a sliding table saw, but am wondering if one can get by without a traditional table saw if you have a slider.

My idea would be..
8" joiner/planer
20-24" surface planer
Table saw(s)
Band Saw
Drill Press
Lathe
Shaper
Drum sander
Belt/disc sander
Dust collection system
Air filtration system

Want quality stuff, but for low volume only.
Don't need CNC etc.

If there are any other must haves let me know :)

[Frank Drackman]

There are many, many questions that come to mind. I will only start with a couple.

What is your current level of woodworking & tool ownership?

Do you have a tendency to find a hobby and stick with it or do you develop some level of mastery then move on to the next interest?

[John Lanciani]

Why a 24" planer and only an 8" jointer? I could easily spend your budget for you, but I have the same question as Frank; what is your current level of experience?

[glenn bradley]

Threads of this type can often bring out a poor showing of some responses; jealousy, brand preference, method preference, the paralysis of too much choice and possibility, etc. The initial response questions are valid and many more will follow. It is a bit like asking "what is the best car for me?"; the answers are myriad and most are equally valid given a limited context. That doesn't mean we aren't anxious to get started trying to help you decide :). Just don't get put off at the many questions that will follow.

You say "My goal will be to mostly make household furniture, built-ins, some cabinetry etc.". We need to dial this in a bit. A trim carpenter will recommend a sliding compound miter saw right out of the gate. I find them of little to no use. I notice this is also missing from your list so we are already of a like mind.

You mention a slider. If you are going to be doing the 'Kitchen and Baths' approach to your cabinetry this will be on your short-list. It would not be my first choice for furniture making. We all have our methods and approaches to certain tasks and I am admittedly cabinet-saw-centric for "tablesaw" type tasks. My footprint is 20 x 30 and I cannot give up the room for a slider; I'd have not room to build anything. Someone who is slider-centric (and we have a few experienced folks on here who I hope will chime in) I would respond differently.

In my approach to furniture making, once the design work is done I focus on the material:
- parts selection and marking, primarily eyeballs and chalk
- parts breakdown, primarily jigsaw and bandsaw
- parts milled to rough and then final dimensions, primarily jointer, planer, tablesaw and hand tools
- joinery, primarily router, tablesaw, bandsaw and hand tools
- surface prep, primarily hand tools
- and the beat goes on :)

There are as many different methods as there are woodworkers so I will echo Frank and John's question; what are you doing now, how are you doing it, tell us more about your planned activities, etc., etc. We're not being nosy, we just don't want to tell you all about shapers if a router table would actually be more valuable.

P.s. Dust collection should be first on your list and I don't see anything about finishing. Given your budget I could see a decent amount going toward creature comforts; heating, cooling and so forth.

[Martin Wasner]

Looking to invest $25k to 50k in my workshop (i.e. buy new most likely)

Have about 20x40' to work with.

My goal will be to mostly make household furniture, built-ins, some cabinetry etc.


Don't buy stationary equipment new unless you have to. It's a waste of money. I keep a spreadsheet inventory of basically every tool in my shop. I just capped $200k invested, but the replacement cost is almost $375k

Basement shop, or something at ground level?

Do you have three phase?







I don't currently have a sliding table saw, but am wondering if one can get by without a traditional table saw if you have a slider.

If I could only have one tablesaw, I would have a slider. With that said, I don't care for sliders. I think they are awkward and they take a acre of real estate, but if I could only have one that's what I'd have. I saw an older Martin recently sell at an auction for $2500. I did not go to the inspection, but I'm thinking somebody got a heck of a deal. It was old, but looked to be well cared for.

I spend a lot of time chasing equipment. I'm always looking, but never for anything specific. If something pops up for a good price, and I can use it, I try to buy it.





What I would expect to pay.



My idea would be..
8" joiner/planer $1000 tops, I just paid $2k for a mint SAC FS305 off of Craigslist though. I spent a little more than I wanted to, but it's nice, and I really wanted it.
20-24" surface planer Planers can be tricky used. A new SCM 630 class is about $18k. I just saw a 24" Northfield on Craigslist for $2500.
Table saw(s) Something like a used Powermatic Model 66 will go for $900-1500, depending on condition, personally it is as low a quality saw as I would go. I picked up a Northfield #4 recently, I traded a lightly used Tawainese 66 for it, it was on Craigslist for $1500. I bought a Tannewitz XJ for $1200, which might've been a bit high.
Band Saw I honestly don't know squat about bandsaws, other than I ran across a Powermatic 88? That I should've bought for $700. I really don't have a ton of use for one. I've got a 14" Delta, while not much of a saw, I don't ask much of it either.
Drill Press There's a thread in General Woodworking on some new drill press, I can't remember the brand. It looks intriguing. (I also don't know much about drill presses.
Lathe I also don't know squat about lathes.
Shaper Don't skimp on a shaper. Lightly built shapers are a nightmare, and are a pretty critical to machining wood well. Realistically, you can expect to pay about $5k on a nice used quality shaper. I paid $4k for an SCM T130, $5500 for a SAC TS120 that came out of a tech school in mint shape, and $1200 for a SAC TS120 that looks like hell and has had a rough life, but it cuts beautifully and it's an 1800# brute. I've got a pair of Powermatic 27's that I can't wait to get rid of.
Drum sander Don't bother. Find a widebelt. You will be much happier. Apex has a singlehead 37" that is a lighter duty machine that is pretty reasonable, but I think you're still looking at $8-9k. I do get a bit squeamish about used widebelts. People are generally idiots, and it's pretty easy to hurt a widebelt.
Belt/disc sander I've got nothing.
Dust collection system Craigslist is your friend. You can find some smaller industrial grade systems for pennies on the dollar. Most would disagree with me, but it's tough to go overboard on dust collection. There's never enough in my experience.
Air filtration system I'd get a downdraft table. You can use it as a bench by throwing sheet stock on it while not sanding, or you can do the same and use it as an outfeed table for a cabinet saw to save space. The one I've got is 48"x72" and it moves 3900 cfm. In 800 sq/ft with a 10' ceiling, you're going to roll the volume of the air every couple of minutes. In my experience, the hanging filters are pretty marginal.

Want quality stuff, but for low volume only.
Don't need CNC etc.

If there are any other must haves let me know :)

A must have in my opinion is the OMGA 300MEC mitre saw. If it's going to be stationary, it's the finest saw there is. I've bought three used ones in the past year getting ready for my new building. The most I paid was $660. Ironically the one I paid the most for was the crappiest of the three, I found it on eBay. I paid $650 for one that is absolutely mint off of Craigslist. I paid $500 for another one from eBay, and it is in good shape.



I started my cabinet shop in 2004. I had all of my hand tools, all of my install tools, and a $10k budget for stationary stuff. I bought all new stationary stuff of marginal quality. That was a giant mistake, and I'm still trying to replace some of those things. I spent poorly in the early years of my business because I didn't know any better. You can buy a lot of nice stuff used for $25-50k. There's deals to be had, but it takes patience, and perseverance looking. When my wife is watching some terrible TV show, I'm half paying attention to that and surfing classifieds and auction sites looking for tools. If you're not looking for a specific piece, you can find some gems. When you're looking for something specific, it takes time.

Tooling is expensive. Figure $600 per head as an average for shaper heads with insert tooling by the time you get knives plus extras, and backers. If you aren't doing production work, you can justify buying just a few nice heads. It's money well spent and a joy to use. Cheap tooling in a cheap shaper is just creating a need for blood pressure medication.

Electricity gets expensive quick too. I'm fortunate to have a close friend who is a commercial electrician who more or less owes me his soul in favors. (Not by accident :D ) Otherwise his shop charges $120/hr plus material, which is already ungodly expensive and they mark it up substantially.


What I'm getting at, is your budget can go a very long ways if spent wisely.

[Darcy Warner]

Good used stuff is out there.

[Don Jarvie]

Invest in the shop first, heat, AC, elec, insulation, etc before you go in on tools. It's great to have all these tools but it's too hot or cold to work.

[Van Huskey]

As Glen alluded to that is a lot to approach in one post, but a couple of things:


1. Get the infrastructure planned out first, with electrical, overwire to accommodate expansion or larger machines. Also figure out your DC I would suggest a 5hp Oneida or Clearvue.

2. Used is great but it doesn't fit everyone's idea of ideal

3. I wouldn't think tablesawS but spend some time and do your best to decide whether a cabinet saw or a slider fits your needs and go that way

4. If there is any stationary saw to have multiples of it is the bandsaw

5. I find a spindle sander and edge sander far more useful than a belt/disc combo

6. Don't use more than half your real budget on machines, the other stuff adds up quickly. Hand power tools, hand tools, finishing equipment, measuring and layout tools, sharpening, tooling etc etc.

7. While I have a shaper and love it I also have two router tables and honestly think they are more useful for a hobbyist so I would go there first. Shaper tooling adds up quickly and don't forget the feeder.

8. as for individual machines work out a line item budget and start a thread for each machine with your budget and intended usage

9. you have a great budget for a hobbyist but it will get eaten up quicker than you think if you plan to buy everything at once and do not forget wood, I know it sounds silly but I had a friend jump into woodworking and dumped his entire budget and more into machines/tools/shop and literally pushed it so far he had nothing to do but admire his tools until he recovered enough to actually buy decent wood.

[Ray Newman]

As Don Jarrvie posted, first off make your shop as energy efficient as possible. Energy costs only increase.

If I was designing and building a new shop, I would have all electrical outlets hooked up to a master kill switch, so when you leave the shop, you can cut off power to all the machines. I would keep one or two circuits free so lighting, HVAC utilities, etc., can run. If you have children/planning to have children, machinery/tools are like magnets to attract them. Definitely consider wood floor -- easier on your back and dropped tools.

As for your shop size, your 800 square feet will be eaten up quickly with all the machinery you are considering and that does not include an room for wood/sheet good storage. Also depending upon size, sliding table saws have a large foot print.

This will this be a "hobby" shop?

Now here's the main point of my response: How much woodworking experience do you have? Building and outfitting a shop strike me that you are new to this endeavor?

If I am correct, find woodworking retailers that offer classes to beginners. Also look at the local Adult Education programs. Recommend this as I have seen people start out with the best of intentions and no experience thinking that they can do it, only to become disillusioned once they find it is not as easy as the do-it-yourself TV shows/You Tube make it out to be and it takes time, and sometimes an inordinate amount of time doing set ups and test cuts.

[Jim Becker]

Why a 24" planer and only an 8" jointer? I could easily spend your budget for you, but I have the same question as Frank; what is your current level of experience?
That was the first thing that stuck out to me, too...wide jointers are wonderful for properly flattening stock before thickness planing. Since I do have a sliding table saw, I pretty much never "edge" joint...it's all the faces...and I like wide lumber, too.

[Darcy Warner]

That was the first thing that stuck out to me, too...wide jointers are wonderful for properly flattening stock before thickness planing. Since I do have a sliding table saw, I pretty much never "edge" joint...it's all the faces...and I like wide lumber, too.

I can feed multiple boards through my 24" and 30" planers, at a time. Makes for quick work.

[Michael Koons]

I agree with Jim. I have a 16" combo J/P and absolutely love the fact that I can face joint almost everything from the lumber yard. When I had an 8" jointer, I found myself ripping it to fit the jointer.

The other points are very good points and things I've had to think of...

1. I moved from a 16'x35' shop to a 40'x60' shop. I bought my slider for the first shop and now I wish i had a bigger slider now that I have the room for it. Planning is important.

2. I moved up to 3ph equipment and had to get a phase converter when I did. Not a big deal for me but something I needed to plan for.

3. Access. Expensive tools end up being VERY big and heavy. Getting a 1500 or 2000 lb tool from a driveway to a basement can range from challenging to nearly impossible depending on access.

With your budget, pricing won't be an issue. It's some of the other things that people mentioned before you'll need to think about.

[paul cottingham]

Yep. If I started over, I would buy a bandsaw (big one) and as big a jointer/planer combo as I could justify. I hardly ever edge joint by machine, but a combo machine would cover my bases at a reasonable cost. Add a d/p (I'd look for a used delta 220, but I have a real thing for them) and a mortiser, and good dust dust collection, and be done with it. Yes, no table saw. Too dangerous, too much real estate, Too much money, too crappy dust collection. Rip on the big band saw. Clean up with hand planes or your big jointer/planer.

Invest saved money (and space!) in hand tools, and benches.

[Matt Day]

This is a nearly impossible thread. There are more questions than answers based on the very small amount of info you gave us, and you will get many different answer.

Quite a first post!

[Brian Tymchak]

Since you mention building large cabinetry, I would suggest a track saw. A good sized slider TS will handle a sheet of plywood, but I think a track saw is more versatile.

[Peter Aeschliman]

1. An 8' stroke sliding table saw
2. A 12" jointer with spiral cutter head
3. A ~12" planer with spiral cutter head
4. A minimax 16" bandsaw
5. A passable drill press
6. A domino XL
7. A few high end hand planes, a router plane, and a quality set of bench chisels
8. A nice router table with a 3hp motor
9. Build a roubo workbench using bench crafted hardware.
10. a Clearvue cyclone and nordfab ducting

I think that would get pretty close to using up your budget, but I can keep going.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

Looking to invest $25k to 50k in my workshop (i.e. buy new most likely)

Have about 20x40' to work with.

My goal will be to mostly make household furniture, built-ins, some cabinetry etc.

I don't currently have a sliding table saw, but am wondering if one can get by without a traditional table saw if you have a slider.

My idea would be..
8" joiner/planer
20-24" surface planer
Table saw(s)
Band Saw
Drill Press
Lathe
Shaper
Drum sander
Belt/disc sander
Dust collection system
Air filtration system

Want quality stuff, but for low volume only.
Don't need CNC etc.

If there are any other must haves let me know :)

Must haves that you may not expect or realize the costs of... since you want a shaper, you will need tooling. Shaper tooling is fairly expensive. A good selection of blades for the saws, selection of sand papers/belts etc.

Also hand tools. It can all add up. Stationary machinery is always thought of first.. since it is large and necessary and so forth - but it is easy to forget all the "small" stuff which can add up to a lot of $$.

I set up a new shop 6 years ago. I have been in business for many years (20+) but I was very surprised at how much money was spent after all the big stuff was in place, to purchase all the hand tools/vacs/supplies etc just in order to get working again. Hand planes, drill bits, chisels, squares, clamps (oh yes, lots of $$ in clamps), etc.

[lee cox]

If you look around for used gear you could have a nice shop for a lot less. You really learn your tools as you bring them up to a good working tool.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

Electricity gets expensive quick too. I'm fortunate to have a close friend who is a commercial electrician who more or less owes me his soul in favors. (Not by accident :D ) Otherwise his shop charges $120/hr plus material, which is already ungodly expensive and they mark it up substantially.



Oh yes.. I forgot about that. WHen I set up my new shop in early 2011, it was close to $30K just for the electrician's bill. Even when we built our last shop (40'x100', all 600V three phase machinery, back in 1988/89) it was about $12K for the wiring up of things).

[Mike Fritz]

I'd start this process from the other end. Find the best woodworking shop where you can "rent time". It might be the local community college, junior college, etc. Sign up for the woodworking class and start building the projects you like on their tools. Along the way you will start to gravitate toward the projects you like to build and then you will start to figure out your favorite way to build them.

As one example, I started with large stationary tools (actually not so large compared to others on this forum). But over time I have gravitated back toward more portable tools like the tracksaw for example to do all my plywood work. I found it easier for me to keep the wood stationary because I work with large pieces and bring the tool to the wood. I get much better dust collection also this way.

Basically ramp up slowly. Think about what you want to build, get the tools for that and go from there. Or better yet use the local colleges and their shops to get time on their tools and perhaps tap into a great mentor.

[Roger Marty]

Wow, I have less than $2K or so into my hobby so far...Can't imagine starting with a $25k outlay unless you're commercial

Ridgid R4512 hybrid tablesaw: $550
Used Delta/Homecraft bandsaws: $75
Used Boice-Crane 6" jointer: $60
DeWalt dw734 planer: $300
Bench-top drill press: $60
Router + table: $200
1 HP Dust collector + cyclone: $140
Blades / pipe clamps / chisels: a few hundred

[Jim Becker]

Wow, I have less than $2K or so into my hobby so far...Can't imagine starting with a $25k outlay unless you're commercial

When the means is available and it's what someone wants to do, there's no harm in putting together a hobby shop that's the equivalent of a small commercial arrangement. Although I certainly "started" smaller, a couple of really good years (I'm in sales) in the early 2000s before we adopted our kids made it possible to put together something more, which I knew I wouldn't ever be able to do "post-retirement". (assuming I ever get to retire) I have no regrets at all, even when those normal periods of time of little activity come along. If the OP wants to invest in his shop that way, I'm all for it.

[James Zhu]

For 25k, you can equip the shop with Hammer (or equivalent MiniMax) line products (J/P, slider, bandsaw, shaper, Felder RL 140 dust extractor), the rest money goes to your choice of drill press, lathe, drum sander.... For 50k, you can upgrade to Felder line.

For J/P, at least 12 inch width, I would go 16 inch.
For slider, if you want to cut 4x8 sheet goods, you need at least 9 foot slider.

James

[Prashun Patel]

I wouldn't spend your money at once.
It's all contingent upon how you like to work. You cannot know this until you're years in - and even then it evolves.

Personally, I'd get a track saw, cordless drill, a plunge/fixed router, a miter saw, a jig saw, a shop vac, a random orbital sander, and a pocket hole jig (or Jessem dowel jig) and then take it from there.

You can do a surprisingly large number of projects with just this.

Buy your 'big 4' (tablesaw, planer, jointer, bandsaw) one at a time and as needed, if needed.


IMHO, the most questionable purchases would be a table saw (convenient for the majority, but a growing number of hobbyists prefer to work without one), and wide jointer/planers. These are expensive, and take up a lot of space. Some hobbyists don't find it inconvenient to work around a 6" jointing capacity of 12" planing capacity. And while I now own a 3hp cabinet Sawstop, if I were buying now with my current skill set/preferences, I might opt for a track saw and a better bandsaw.

When you buy your first of these four, I'd get a cyclone dust collector, a larger one than you think you need. But I would not pipe it permanently until you've purchased 3 or 4 of your larger tools.

A hobbyist shop is a highly individualized space so don't mistake the responses in this thread (incl mine) as anything more than personal (albeit well informed and valid) preferences.

[Mark Blatter]

I wouldn't spend your money at once.
It's all contingent upon how you like to work. You cannot know this until you're years in - and even then it evolves.

Personally, I'd get a track saw, cordless drill, a plunge/fixed router, a miter saw, a jig saw, a shop vac, a random orbital sander, and a pocket hole jig (or Jessem dowel jig) and then take it from there.

You can do a surprisingly large number of projects with just this.

Buy your 'big 4' (tablesaw, planer, jointer, bandsaw) one at a time and as needed, if needed.


IMHO, the most questionable purchases would be a table saw (convenient for the majority, but a growing number of hobbyists prefer to work without one), and wide jointer/planers. These are expensive, and take up a lot of space. Some hobbyists don't find it inconvenient to work around a 6" jointing capacity of 12" planing capacity. And while I now own a 3hp cabinet Sawstop, if I were buying now with my current skill set/preferences, I might opt for a track saw and a better bandsaw.

When you buy your first of these four, I'd get a cyclone dust collector, a larger one than you think you need. But I would not pipe it permanently until you've purchased 3 or 4 of your larger tools.

A hobbyist shop is a highly individualized space so don't mistake the responses in this thread (incl mine) as anything more than personal (albeit well informed and valid) preferences.

I agree with what virtually everyone has said, but this advice from Prashun is spot on perfect. I don't know why you are doing this, hobby or commercial, where you plan to go, so keep a big chunk of the money in the bank and start smaller. I could not think of a single way to improve on Prashun's advice.

[lowell holmes]

This is an impossible thread.

I suggest you start with one or two tools to get your feet wet. None of us can tell you what your bent is.

I would start with minimum investment for a tool or two I fancied. I started with a simple bench and a few hand tools.

My first tools were hand tools, power and manual.

After my interests developed, I bought a table saw on line, I still have it. Along the way I bought a jointer, a band saw, a drill press, and a miter box saw.
I never bought two tools at once.

[Brad Shipton]

I agree with Lowell. Impossible. OP post #1, time to wait for him to respond.

[paul cottingham]

Yep. If I started over, I would buy a bandsaw (big one) and as big a jointer/planer combo as I could justify. I hardly ever edge joint by machine, but a combo machine would cover my bases at a reasonable cost. Add a d/p (I'd look for a used delta 220, but I have a real thing for them) and a mortiser, and good dust dust collection, and be done with it. Yes, no table saw. Too dangerous, too much real estate, Too much money, too crappy dust collection. Rip on the big band saw. Clean up with hand planes or your big jointer/planer.

Invest saved money (and space!) in hand tools, and benches.

Forgot to add, if you are bent on using sheet goods, add a track saw. Safer and more versatile and more mobile than a table saw.

[Eric Commarato]

If your in it for the long haul, this is what I would buy...

A Wadkin PK sliding table saw, if you can find one. Or an Oliver 260 Slider. This would be my saw utilized for joinery.
A 10" General, Powermatic, or Unisaw, yes the old U.S. or Canadian built cabinet saws set up for general stock preparation.
A 10" General, Powermatic or Unisaw, set up only for Dado work.
A couple General drill presses, the old Canadian versions.
A Moak, Porter, or American 16" or 24" Jointer for the big stuff
A 12" Northfield HD Jointer form the small stuff
A Moak or Northfield Shaper
A Hammond Trim-O-Saw with sliding table for delicate tasks not requiring a tilting arbor
A Moak or Northfield 30-36" band saw for big stuff
A 14" General (15") or Powermatic 141 for small stuff
A band saw mill
A couple Lamello plate jointers...

There's more but I think I'm approaching the $50,000 mark.


An American Rotary 25 HP Phase Converter...If I don't have 3 phase readily available.

[Van Huskey]

If your in it for the long haul, this is what I would buy...

A Wadkin PK sliding table saw, if you can find one. Or an Oliver 260 Slider. This would be my saw utilized for joinery.
A 10" General, Powermatic, or Unisaw, yes the old U.S. or Canadian built cabinet saws set up for general stock preparation.
A 10" General, Powermatic or Unisaw, set up only for Dado work.
A couple General drill presses, the old Canadian versions.
A Moak, Porter, or American 16" or 24" Jointer for the big stuff
A 12" Northfield HD Jointer form the small stuff
A Moak or Northfield Shaper
A Hammond Trim-O-Saw with sliding table for delicate tasks not requiring a tilting arbor
A Moak or Northfield 30-36" band saw for big stuff
A 14" General (15") or Powermatic 141 for small stuff
A band saw mill
A couple Lamello plate jointers...

There's more but I think I'm approaching the $50,000 mark.


An American Rotary 25 HP Phase Converter...If I don't have 3 phase readily available.


Where is he going to get the extra square footage to put those things in? 800 sq ft is not a lot of shop room.

I wonder how much longer the thread will go with no guidance from the OP but if nothing else it is a look into peoples minds on how they would spend the money.

Take for example the last poster, who I am not picking on (and assume he just forgot) but has a shop with 3 table saws, 2 jointers, 2 drill presses and not enough bandsaws and no planer...

[Cody Armstrong]

1. Buy your tools and equipment as you need them.
2. Spend your money slowly and wisely.
3. Research everything extensively before you buy. Ask for advice on this forum about machines and tools.

[Matt Day]

I hope the OP isn't a troll and checks in on his thread. 3 pages so far of suggestions that could really use some clarification from the OP.

[Tim Boettcher]

Thanks Guys for all your responses.. I had a lot of reading to do when I came back today.

Here is more clarifications, to some of the questions.
* This is hobby.. i.e. after work, or weekend type stuff, or teaching the boys, the man toys.
* This is in So. California, so don't really need much environmental.
* The shop is on level with 2 sliding doors which can be opened for full and easy access.
* This is a move-in situation, so while I can add more power etc, it has pretty good distributed 220v power already, but need to verify if it has 3PH.
* I would consider myself a novice, with maybe 500hrs of shop time.
* I have a lot of hand tools, and currently have some Jet equipment, but want to move up to something of higher quality.
* Currently using a two stage cyclone with a trash can first stage.

I've not used a sliding table saw prior, so just don't know if this is a smart move. I have the room, but if large sheet stock is the main reason I may not need it.
I may just go with a standard cabinet saw with left and outfeed tables, as needed.

There used to be a show here in So. Cal, but nothing recently, so I am considering going to AWFS in Las Vegas (this July).
I hear it is a good place to see, and try out the stuff (if you want to buy new), and its within driving distance.

I'm not really interested in pouring all my money into one or two machines, but rather a decent collection.
I know these types of posts generate many viewpoints, but I'm a good reader, and will read everything.
I'll be going over a lot of other posts around here as well to get more grounded.

Thanks!
Tim

[Van Huskey]

First, if this is a residential neighborhood you will not have 3 phase power but it is a non-issue buying new and something that has easy work arounds if you buy commercial 3 phase machines.

IWF (Atlanta odd years) and AWFS (LV even years) can be a good place to see machines but fewer and fewer hobby level manufacturers are showing up but they are still a lot of fun.

I say deal with dust collection first, that alone is going to take some research to decide how you want to approach it.

Also spend some time pondering the slider vs cabinet saw question, there is a lot of information on it here and people are happy to answer questions.

So basically work on dust collection and electrical (if needed) first then the table saw and the rest of the main five machines (band saw, jointer, planer and drill press) then decide whether you are going shaper, router table or both.

Instead of taking the shotgun approach just work on researching individual machines one at a time. Start with dust collection (a cyclone with your budget) and I would suggest getting either a Clearvue or Oneida 5hp cyclone. Note DC may take the most research time to get a handle on so don't get discouraged if it seems like a time sink just for sucking up dust.

Finally, as I have said before, ask individual, focused questions and you will get more specific answers.

Good luck and welcome BTW.

[Eric Commarato]

Where is he going to get the extra square footage to put those things in? 800 sq ft is not a lot of shop room.

I wonder how much longer the thread will go with no guidance from the OP but if nothing else it is a look into peoples minds on how they would spend the money.

Take for example the last poster, who I am not picking on (and assume he just forgot) but has a shop with 3 table saws, 2 jointers, 2 drill presses and not enough bandsaws and no planer...


351891351892351893

O.k. Van, Here is my shop, it is 18'-0"x25'-0" 450 Square feet. It is fully functional, everything works and I actually build things in here. For sheet goods I do have a General 350 in my garage as it is a little tight in here, but I can rip and mill stock up to 8'-0" long with no problem. Here is what's in this space:

Penn State Tempest dust collector
Benchmaster Knee Mill
South Bend 7" Shaper
Clausing Drill Press
South Bend 9" Lathe
Miller Syncrowave 250 Tig Welder
Miller Thunderbolt Welder
Miller 211 Mig Welder
Delta DJ-15 Jointer
My 22"x60" Maple Bench
MiniMax S-45 Band Saw
MAX Spindle Sander
PM 26 Shaper
Delta Unisaw
PM 66 Table Saw
Tannewitz Model U Table Saw
Oliver 8" Jointer
General 130 Planer
General 160 Lathe
Delta 14" Bandsaw
Hammond Trim O Saw
Delta 17" Drill Press
Hammer Sensitive Drill Press
PM 30 Belt/Disk Sander
Oliver Die Filer
Delta Scroll Saw (under the stairs)

I might have left something out, but this does not count the General 350, PM 100 Planer, Boyar Schultz Surface Grinder, Boice Crane 1000 Planer, Delta Radial Arm Saw, Delta Contractor's Saw and my chop saw with Biesemeyer fence/table system in my other garage. I know your not picking on me...but don't always assume what is in someone's shop until you take a look. I'm sure the OP's know most of us have limited space, but some of us cram as much as we can into our shops, it can be done, and it can be safe and functional.

[Matt Day]

Man, 800sqft would be a dream shop for me! I'm working with 300 now. And I have most of the equipment he's asking about.

[David Traster]

Newbie here. I get why experts find this thread frustrating but I find the responses very interesting and helpful. For example, I wish I had started with dust collection! I'm just saying!

[Eric Commarato]

Newbie here. I get why experts find this thread frustrating but I find the responses very interesting and helpful. For example, I wish I had started with dust collection! I'm just saying!

David, you need to realize that wood shops are evolving projects in themselves. You will add, take away, upgrade, every step along the way. In retrospect, if I was beginning I would buy the best I could, used or new, what you can afford. The older equipment to me is better than the equipment made today, with exception of the Saw Stop and that technology. When I bought my first table saw, it was a Delta motorized table saw, it was a dangerous piece of junk. After that, I made the decision to just save up and buy the best that was out there starting with a good cabinet grade table saw.

[Van Huskey]

I'm sure the OP's know most of us have limited space, but some of us cram as much as we can into our shops, it can be done, and it can be safe and functional.

If it works for you great, but I would imagine that you are one of the extreme few that would put 3 table saws in a 450 sqft shop. Most people are more efficient when they have more room to work. Plus are you using some of the great outdoors to augment the shop space? It appears that way with the planer and TS against the door.

[Martin Wasner]

I often wonder with threads like this if the mods don't create a sock just to create traffic. Kind of a polite troll of sorts.....



You can pack a lot of in 800 sq/ft if you don't do larger projects. My first shop was 1200 sq/ft and I was pushing compete houses worth of cabinets out the door with more tooling than the OP has listed. My biggest problem was having a place to put product once built.

Hind sight, my shop now is probably even tighter at 2500 sq/ft and probably triple the amount of tooling.


Most of this list is in here, but there's a few things either in storage, or in the shop but not in use.




Unique Face Frame Clamp table


Castle TSM-21 Pocket borer


Derda 12" Chop saw


Blum Hinge Boring machine


Unique Door Clamp


Denray Downdraft table


Rockwell 3hp shaper


Powermatic PM66 5hp Tablesaw


Powermatic 6" Jointer


Delta 14" Bandsaw


Powermatic 1900cfm dust collector


Ritter 6" Edge Sander





Apex 2000 series 43" dual head widebelt sander


Striebig Compact Plus Panel saw





Powermatic 27S 5hp shaper


Powermatic 27 5hp shaper


Powermatic 1900cfm dust collector


Powermatic 15" Planer


Delta 3hp Tablesaw


Powermatic PM66 5hp Tablesaw


JLT 12' Clamp Rack


Cambell Hausfeld 5hp 80gal air compressor


Shop Fox single bag dust collector


Delta 3hp powerfeed


Reliable Cope Clamp


Reliable Cope Clamp


Steff Four wheel power feeder


SAC TS120 Shaper


SCMi T130N Shaper


Ritter R46 Line Bore


Whirlwind 212L pop up saw with Tigerstop


Jet Spindle Sander


Murphy-Rodgers MRSE-16-4D Dust Collector


Sac TS120 Shaper


Tormek Grinder


Torit 12" Airlock


Cantek JDT-75 Automatic Dovetailer


OMGA MEC-300 Cutoff saw


OMGA MEC-300 Cutoff saw


Honda EU2000i Generator


Onieda Dust Cobra Dust collector


OMGA MEC-300 Cutoff saw


SAC FS305 Jointer


Atlas Copco 15 HP screw type air compressor


Norhfield #4 Tablesaw


Tannewitz XJ Tablesaw


Diehl SLE-20 Straightline rip saw





You can fit a lot of stuff in a given space if you do it smart.

[Eric Commarato]

If it works for you great, but I would imagine that you are one of the extreme few that would put 3 table saws in a 450 sqft shop. Most people are more efficient when they have more room to work. Plus are you using some of the great outdoors to augment the shop space? It appears that way with the planer and TS against the door.

Yep it's tight in there...I have to turn sideways to get between some things. Good thing I'm skinny!

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Tim, I'm on shop revision number 3, almost 4 decades into the hobby.

I have a small basement shop in a Townhouse.

I have a Hammer B3 Winner sliding tablesaw with tilting spindle shaper. It has a tilt away stock feeder and scoring saw. I use the shaper a lot, tooling isn't that expensive, a carbide rebate head, a slotting cutter and a 40mm Euroblock head will do almost everything you need.

I also have a 12 inch Hammer jointer/planer, great machine, it's really nice having a 12 inch jointer.

I have a 17 inch bandsaw, I consider a 17 to 20 inch saw the perfect size, handles everything from logs to veneer making.

Dust collection, I have an Oneida cyclone, very pleased.

Don't forget a drill press, some portable machines such as a sander, jigsaw, circular saw, maybe a router and hand tools and a good bench.

Spend a lot of time looking at Hammer, Felder, Mini Max European machines, far better functionality, capacity, safety and accuracy than the more traditional NA machines.

My sliding saw is compact, yet in 2 minutes the outrigger is on and I can crosscut a large table top or straight line rough timbers. The shaper is built in, so no wasted floor space and I get a tilting spindle, sliding table shaper, fantastic.

I would avoid the lathe until you determine whether you want to get into turning, people either are, or aren't turners, not many occasional turners although that does describe me.............Rod.

P.S. Here's a video showing European machinery in operation, well worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV8A3XK3R0I&t=41s

[David Traster]

David, you need to realize that wood shops are evolving projects in themselves. You will add, take away, upgrade, every step along the way. In retrospect, if I was beginning I would buy the best I could, used or new, what you can afford. The older equipment to me is better than the equipment made today, with exception of the Saw Stop and that technology. When I bought my first table saw, it was a Delta motorized table saw, it was a dangerous piece of junk. After that, I made the decision to just save up and buy the best that was out there starting with a good cabinet grade table saw.

Agreed. I'm anewbie to this site and relatively new to woodworking. I've been collectingStanley Planes and other old tools and buying old iron. I buy some things as a “collector”and other things for my own use. I'm slowly developing a workable shop.

Working:
Powermatic 65 (not 66) table saw;
Powermatic Model 1150 Drill Press;
Delta 12" radial arm saw;
Monarch 8" Jointer (thinking about a Byrd-Shelix type spiral cutterhead)
Sears/Dunlap Lathe

Yet to be rebuilt:
Powermatic Model 45 Lathe (needs motor)
Sears/Belsaw Planer 12” (needs new rollers,at least)
Big Sears scroll saw.

I’m focusing on acquiring top quality handtools for my shop. I’m trying to take advice from Chris Schwartz to heart. Hesays buy one very good ½” wood chisel and use it until you absolutely needanother chisel. Then buy the one you need.

[Jim Becker]

I often wonder with threads like this if the mods don't create a sock just to create traffic. Kind of a polite troll of sorts.....

Not a chance in heck of that EVER happening... ;) It would just "make for more work" and that's not the aim of a volunteer staff.

Jim
Forum Moderator

[Edwin Santos]

I wouldn't spend your money at once.
It's all contingent upon how you like to work. You cannot know this until you're years in - and even then it evolves.

Personally, I'd get a track saw, cordless drill, a plunge/fixed router, a miter saw, a jig saw, a shop vac, a random orbital sander, and a pocket hole jig (or Jessem dowel jig) and then take it from there.

You can do a surprisingly large number of projects with just this.

Buy your 'big 4' (tablesaw, planer, jointer, bandsaw) one at a time and as needed, if needed.


IMHO, the most questionable purchases would be a table saw (convenient for the majority, but a growing number of hobbyists prefer to work without one), and wide jointer/planers. These are expensive, and take up a lot of space. Some hobbyists don't find it inconvenient to work around a 6" jointing capacity of 12" planing capacity. And while I now own a 3hp cabinet Sawstop, if I were buying now with my current skill set/preferences, I might opt for a track saw and a better bandsaw.

When you buy your first of these four, I'd get a cyclone dust collector, a larger one than you think you need. But I would not pipe it permanently until you've purchased 3 or 4 of your larger tools.

A hobbyist shop is a highly individualized space so don't mistake the responses in this thread (incl mine) as anything more than personal (albeit well informed and valid) preferences.

This is very good advice. I have seen people become enthralled with woodworking and then quickly overwhelmed. Don't try to sprint through a marathon. The other thing to remember (if you're not an experienced veteran at present) is that tools don't come with skills.

It takes time to develop skills, learn techniques, things like jig building, building with story sticks, measuring from centerlines, machine setup, sharpening, understanding and developing a sense of design, and developing safety instincts. And let's not forget the wide world of finishing. Woodworking becomes much more satisfying once you've developed this knowledge base. This is why I like Prashun's advice which is basically to pace your tool acquisition to your skill/technique development.
Maybe allocate some $$ to your local woodworking school, if you have one. After a few classes, you'll have a much clearer idea of what to do.

[Darcy Warner]

I just fake it until I make it.