looking for suggestions on a quality shop vac

[Mike Kees]

I am in the process of installing dust collection in my shop. The next thing I want to purchase is a real good shop vac for use as dust collection for small power tools clean up of fine dust around my shop (without spewing it back out) etc. Am looking for quiet,very good filtration, long life, and I also would like the models that you can plug your power tools in to it and it turns on when the tool is turned on. At one point about 7-8 years ago I looked at fein and was impressed but short on cash. What brands should I consider now ? really interested in actual owner/user recommendations, not so much reviews. Thanks,Mike.

[Casey Carr]

The vein and festool are the two that get talked about the most. I got a fein at work. I'm amazed at how quiet it is. And you can plug your power tools into it.

Can't comment on the festool, maybe I'll try one at home one of these days. Mortiser or equivalent first.

[Van Huskey]

Fein and Festool are the most popular with other less known ones like Nilfisk. If you really want to set up a whole shop system I suggest you look hard at the Oneida Dust Cobra, not much more than the Festool but in a whole other league if you want to take the time to design a whole shop system. It is whole unit HEPA certified like the better vacuums, while you can add a HEPA filter to standard shop vacs that still doesn't mean they aren't spitting dust back into the shop, and most do.

[Justin Ludwig]

Save money. Buy a 12g ShopVac, dust deputy, 5g bucket with lid, and an iVac switch for literally hundreds less than the other units. Only down side is it not as quiet as the other two. Spend the savings on other goodies.

[Larry Frank]

I have a Festool and it is very good but very expensive.

I also have recently bought a Ridgid shop vac. It is much quieter than my old Craftsman. You can buy a HEPA filter for it and a switch to turn it on when you turn on a connected tool. You can buy the Ridgid vacuum, an iVac switch, and a HEPA filter for less than $200. Not as good as a Festool or Fein but less than half the cost.

[Marc Burt]

I have a Festool CT26 and am very pleased...with everything but the price.

I have no direct personal experience with the Fein so I offer this only as food for thought. I've read they cheapened the design a few years back and that the new ones aren't nearly the same machines as old.

What about the Bosch shop vacs? They look to be pretty good.

[George Bokros]

What about the Bosch shop vacs? They look to be pretty good.

These cost $549 to $599. In the Festool realm.

[Eric Commarato]

I have the 14 Gallon Ridgid, not sure the model number, but they are about $99 At H.D. I had one for 7 years and it burned out. Ridgid said I had to clean the motor head and send it back to them and per their lifetime warranty, they sent me a complete new unit. You can't go wrong with that. It is also very powerful and will take a bag or just filter. I do like the higher end vacuums talked about above, Fein, Festool etc., but I have had really good luck with this one, and Ridgid's customer service is great. I'd chunk the stock hose and go with their orange professions hose, I think its about 12'-0' long and very flexible, runs like $35 for this upgrade

[Tom Ewell]

I do have a central collection system for the big tools but I hook up a Ridgid through a DIY Thien top-hat separator on a can setup for the smaller semi-stationary tools that don't require the big suck.

Within the Ridgid is a bag and Hepa filter which rarely needs attention since the top-hat collects all pretty well.

The Feins and Festool collect my portable tools.

In fact I use a Thien top-hat on a 30g can for the main system too. (J. Phil Thien projects)

[Darcy Warner]

I have 5 Festool CT'S. Oldest is about 10 years old and still works like new.

[Charles Lent]

As Justin said in post #4, you can save money by assembling your own system from a Shop Vac or home tank or canister style vacuum, an Oneida Dust Deputy, and a 5 gallon bucket with a resealable lid. I'm amazed how well my Dust Deputy works. It does so well that you will rarely need to clean the filter in the vacuum. Everything will end up in the bucket under it. Some home vacuums (I'm thinking of Electrolux) have HEPA filters, so you should be able to assemble a system that is every bit as good as those high dollar vacuums, but likely at an increase in physical size, and save some money. Having a 5 gallon or larger collection reservoir and very little need to clean or replace filters is a big plus for it though.

My system was made using a re-purposed and repaired whole house central vacuum unit, a Dust Deputy, and a 20 gallon metal grease barrel. It's not portable, but is permanently installed in the attic of my shop with the pipes in the shop walls and inlet ports where needed like the original central system had. I also installed an inlet port through the shop wall to outside my shop, so I can use it to vacuum my cars and trucks with the original 25' hose. It does a great job of vacuuming the shop floor and collecting the dust from the smaller shop tools, but of course, using only one tool at a time and not using it with the high dust producers like the Unisaw and the planer. I don't have a HEPA filter on it, but the exhaust goes outside through a port in the roof soffit, so the micro fine dust never gets back into my shop.

Charley

[Robert Engel]

I use a Ridgid 5gal vac recently added a cyclone and HEPA filter. Works great.

Yes, it is a loud. You could build a box with sound barrier if desired.

[Clint Baxter]

I have, and use, three different Fein vacs, (3 different sizes), and a Festool CT22. I'm very happy with the performance of all of them. Not too much has been spoken about the ability to adjust suction at the vac, as is available with the Festool. The older Feins also had this ability, (unless it was a really old Fein such as one that i have), but it is no longer available on the newer units. This can be very useful when using the vacuum connected to a Random Orbit Sander, as they tend to operate better when not connected to full suction.

Another item not mentioned is that the higher end vacuums do not use the air pulled in by the vac to cool the motor. The motor on these type vacuums is cooled separately by it's own fan and does not suffer if the airflow is restricted through your vacuum hose. I know that Festool vacuums and the older Feins had the better setup, but haven't checked on the newer Feins as my old ones are not it need of being replaced.

One of the nicest setups you can have is pairing a Festool CT, typically a CT26, with the Oneida Ultimate Dust Deputy. It actually mounts atop atop the vacuum and will roll around together with it. It collects the vast majority of whatever you vacuum up, with hardly anything ever making inside the vacuum and into the filter bag. The Festool also has the HEPA filtration, and when using the Dust Deputy, will maintain high suction almost indefinitely, as long as you empty the Dust Deputy when it fills. As mentioned earlier, most of the better vacs out there are much quieter than the cheaper "screamers" that are available.

You've a tremendous number of options available, pretty much limited only by your pocketbook.

Good luck with your choice.

[George Bokros]

These cost $549 to $599. In the Festool realm.

Anyone have this Bosch dust extractor ----> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HUCUK6K?tag=price1264-20&ascsubtag=217713366&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[Mike Henderson]

I'm also one who bought a Ridgid shop vac and use an iVac type control to turn it on when the tool turns on. Then added a router speed control so I can control the amount of vac. Here's a couple of pictures of my setup. I use a bag in the vac, in addition to the filter. Total cost was a lot less than a Fein or Festool.

I have a second vac set up on my miter saw and have a dust deputy front end on it. That one works great also - very little swarf gets to the vac itself.

Mike

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[George Bokros]

I'm also one who bought a Ridgid shop vac and use an iVac type control to turn it on when the tool turns on. Then added a router speed control so I can control the amount of vac. Here's a couple of pictures of my setup. I use a bag in the vac, in addition to the filter. Total cost was a lot less than a Fein or Festool.

I have a second vac set up on my miter saw and have a dust deputy front end on it. That one works great also - very little swarf gets to the vac itself.

Mike

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Mike do you have a DD front end on the sanding station also? Which model Rigid vac are you using? Is the vac loud? My old, 1970's Craftsman screams. I would like to retire it but it works.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike do you have a DD front end on the sanding station also? Which model Rigid vac are you using? Is the vac loud? My old, 1970's Craftsman screams. I would like to retire it but it works.
I don't have a dust deputy in front of my vac for the sanding station, only for my miter saw. I have a bag in the vac as well as the regular filter.

The vac isn't too loud. When you go to Home Depot and look at the Ridgid vacs, they used to have a label on each one indicating the noise level - I don't know if they still do that. I chose a vac that was quieter. It's much quieter than a Shop Vac (brand) vac that I also had but got rid of because of the noise.

My set up is several years old so I don't know if the model number would be valid today.

Mike

[To give you an indication of the noise, I can't hear the vac over the noise of the sander. If I want to check if the vac is running, I take the hose off the sander and feel for suction.]

[George Bokros]

Thanks Mike. I will check them out at HD. Interesting that they do not post the decibels on their website.

[Stew Hagerty]

I have the Fein Turbo II that I installed the HEPA upgrade in. I LOVE THIS THING!!!
I built a rolling cabinet for it compete with an Oneida Dust Deputy, storage for all the tools (and even a landing pad for my sander), a hose wrap, and a built-in retractable extension cord.
It is quiet and powerful, the two things you want in a vac. Not to mention that it has a built-in tool activation. Just a great all-around machine.

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I had to hunt to find a retractable extension cord where the retractable part is the "male" end instead of the "female" end but it works great.
Connecting the vac to the Dust Deputy the way I wanted to took some finagling. I wanted to be able to use the standard clip-on Fein hose. But, even though Fein shows the Dust Deputy used with the Fein hose, they had no adapter for it. The technical department didn't realize the marketing department was showing it that way and said they were going to have them change the advertising, although I don't know if they ever did. So... What I did was buy the "female" component part from Fein, then I used epoxy and amalgamating tape to adhere and seal the part to the Dust Deputy inlet. It works great.

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks Mike. I will check them out at HD. Interesting that they do not post the decibels on their website.

They didn't have the decibels posted - just a rating that indicated the relative loudness. I suppose the reason they don't post dB is that there may be many ways to measure it and a competitor might use a different technique to appear quieter.

Mike

[Justin Ludwig]

I have 5g ShopVac and a 12g Ridgid. The ShopVac is just as loud as the Ridgid. Both are hooked up to a dust deputy. The Ridgid stays put at my face frame station. The ShopVac is on a mobile cart like Stew's. I used 1-1/2" PVC to hard plumb the line to the shop vac so the fines travel a little easier.

The 5g is a cheap vac ($63 on Amazon) and gets used a LOT. It's was on for about 7 hrs total today sanding doors. I've had it since 2015. When we burn it up, I'll just buy another. Using a Festool 150/5 ROS, we sand doors 120 then 180. We can sand a couple hundred doors before we need to dump a 5gal bucket of fine dust (wish I had a widebelt, but it's on the list). About every 2 months we clean the filter. It's usually dirty enough to only look discolored.

[Jim Dwight]

I also use a Rigid shop vac sucking through a dust deputy. It isn't a big one, maybe 6 gallons. It pulls about 8 amps. It has a quasi HEPA filter (HEPA fabric but not HEPA rated) and an auto-on switch, this one:
http://www.rockler.com/i-socket-110m-tool-and-vacuum-switch?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&sid=V9146&gclid=CO-Oi8LjvdECFdM8gQodquMFxg

I plugged a power strip into the tool side of the switch so I can leave several tools plugged in at once. I switch between a 20 foot 2.5 inch hose ($20 at Home Depot) and a Bosch 5 meter hose. The 2.5 inch is better for vacuuming, small scraps do not plug it like they do the smaller hose setup. It is also what I use for the table saw and router table. CMS, RAS, sanders, and track saw get the Bosch hose.

I built a little cart for the shop vac and DD but it doesn't move much. The hoses are long enough to reach most everything in my small shop.

If you will use the new vacuum with quiet tools the db rating of the vacuum may make a difference. All the tools I use with it - except a Festool hand sander - are noiser than the vacuum. So I don't see the point of a quieter vacuum. But I look at the Fein's sometimes.

If you get a nicer vacuum that has the auto-on switch, make sure it's rating is compatible with the tools you will plug into it. I don't remember the brand but I noticed in a review a rating that would handle a sander but not a track saw. The switch I linked above will work with 15A tools. I do it. It will do that on a 20A circuit. The two tools I am hooking to that circuit (the vac and my track saw, table saw or CMS) are rated to pull over 20A but the switch apparently staggers the startup such that it works.

[Mike Kees]

Well this thread exploded ! Thanks for all the replies. Seems that I either pay big bucks for festool or fein or figure out my own system by assembling various components.The uses that I most want this for are small power tools (ROS,possibly a router if I build a sub base for edge work ,etc. ) The other main use I need is for clean up in homes where I do finish work and renovations. For this use quiet is far better,also a vac that does not spew dust back out helps keep customers happier. So no one has used a bosch vac ? I remember a review somewhere that they had a filter shaker that was supposed to work well. My current vac is a 20 year old craftsman that refuses to die,I think I may hasten it's demise with my shotgun. Thanks,Mike.

[Van Huskey]

So no one has used a bosch vac ?

The only thing I remember from the FWW vac test was the Bosch was over 10dB louder than the Festool and the Festool had low CFM, mainly since the Festool comes with a smaller hose (27mm) than the Bosch (~35mm). The 27mm hose is perfect for a sander but a 35 or 50mm hose is better for some other tools.

[john lawson]

Festool is the best with Fein a very close second, not enough difference to matter and I own one of each. These also have the tool switch which means you don't have to turn on the vac, just the tool such as a random orbit sander.

But the best value by far is the Ridgid from Home Depot. Make sure it says "SNR" on the unit, that stands for Scroll Noise Reduction on the unit and it is much quieter than their other vac. This is a well made unit and if I needed another this is what I would get, for 1/3 to 1/4 of the price of the Festool or Fein.

With any of these vacs you will have to spend some more to make them a full service unit with a cyclone and a cart.

[Thomas Canfield]

I called Ridgid about 6 years or more back when I had to replace a shop vac to check on noise and the 14 gal was the quiet one at that time. I suggest you call to check with them now for later design. I have a Dust Deputy ahead of the shop vac that works very well to remove the majority of dust and all shavings ahead of the vac such that I clean vac filter about every 5 times I empty the DD bucket and vac filter is still pretty clean. I do not have a lot of sanding dust going to the shop vac since I also have a Oneida cyclone for a lot of the sanding dust. I would recommend a DD ahead of any shop vac.

[Matt Lau]

I went through the same as you.

I have a Fein Turbo 1, as it was quieter/smaller/cheaper than the Festool at the time.
Later, I bought a used Nilfisk Attix 8 from ebay as I wanted something with better cord control/HEPA than the Fein. This is the same model as the current Mirka vac.
Now, I'm lusting after the Festool, as their Deluxe Dust deputy rig on a CT26 is extremely well thought out, stable, and ready to go.

Being me, I'll probably either make my own rig up something with my existing vacs (and metal dust deputy) or buy a CT26 and keep the Fein for a dedicated Mitersaw. IMHO, I like the Nilfisk best as a pure vac (manual filter clear, cheaper hepa filters, cord storage, about as quiet as the Fein, very powerful, easy to transport, extremely tough). Festool has the best integrated system. Fein is the best price/performance model--especially if you get an older one with vacuum modulation.

The Dust deputy works great, but the plastic version cracks after a few years. The metal version is pretty awkward with fittings.
If I had to go over again, I'd probably buy the clearvue mini instead.

[roger wiegand]

In answer to a query above, I have had the Bosch Vac090s for a year now and am very happy with it. Relatively quiet, great power, has a HEPA filter available (I use it), outlet that switches on the vac when the tool is triggered, and, most importantly, it will roll over its own cord without hanging up or falling over :). I thought it had all the advantages of of the Fein/Festool vacs at a slightly better price. I hook it up to a Mirka sander, festool track saw and other tools without difficulty-- the only tool I had trouble with was an older Bosch sander, where none of the hoses I had would match up. That sander died, so I stopped worrying about it. I got a reusable fabric bag for it that seems quite efficient, almost nothing gets through to the HEPA filter.

[Mike Henderson]

I went and looked up some current prices for the setup I have (Post #15 in this thread). About $80 for the vac (https://www.google.com/shopping/product/6896489660122847368?lsf=seller:8740,store:14146498 969549977141&q=homw+depot+ridgid+wet+and+dry+vac&hl=en&lsft=gclid:CjwKEAiA79zDBRCgyf2FgeiY-CESJABzr0BM0EIt77LoPTA28yoBnkXt7JqTiClnDOUnxJst4E_ rkhoCFSbw_wcB&prds=oid:15991555442030087771&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwibwYjdkr7RAhUJsVQKHXHYC-4QljAIDg), about $50 for the iVac control, (http://www.infinitytools.com/ivac-switch-box?gdffi=457654df75db4f6e9bc7f7740b0720ba&gdfms=881097C8FD5D4BD0A9A301E43ADC18A0&gclid=CjwKEAiA79zDBRCgyf2FgeiY-CESJABzr0BMNbp-VUZZa1OAc9Jt9McF_16imNx6gGrVnw6f4EtHYRoCd-_w_wcB) and about $17 for the router speed control (https://www.walmart.com/ip/VenTech-VTSPEED-Variable-Dial-Router-Fan-Speed-Controller-for-Duct-and-Inline-Fans/114038188?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=2726&adid=22222222227055680915&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=159393455935&wl4=pla-269120911143&wl5=9031596&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=113134356&wl11=online&wl12=114038188&wl13=&veh=sem), for a total of $147.

That does not include the cost of the cost of the dust bag that I put in the vac, in addition to the filter. About $17 for a set of three bags (http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-High-Efficiency-Dust-Bags-for-12-gal-to-16-gal-RIDGID-Wet-Dry-Vacs-2-Pack-VF3502/100390230).

I went that way because it did what I needed and it was quite a bit less expensive than a Festool vac. The Ridgid vac is quiet enough that I can't hear it when the sander is on, which is good enough for me.

Mike

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[Charles Lent]

Mike,

For job site cleanup you might consider the DeWalt battery operated vacuums. They are quiet compared to shop vacs, and very portable, and the battery will run them a surprisingly long time. My son has one of these and I'm seriously considering one, even though I don't do much field work any more. It's a wet/dry vac too and has the ability to connect a hose and straight pipe pieces, so you don't need to bend over to vacuum the floor.

Charley

[Paul McGaha]

I have a Fein Turbo III I bought from a creeker. I really like it. Much quieter than a vac from someone like Home Depot.

I think the premium shop vacs like Festool, Fein and Bosch are worth the extra costs.

PHM

[Martin Wasner]

I have a Nilfisk, I'm plenty happy with it. If I had it to do over again I'd buy a Festool. Just the ease of clipping a dust deputy onto it Also the squarish shape would stack in with other tools in the trailer easier.

[Mike Kees]

So once again thanks to everyone who posted on this thread. I am going to buy a Rigid for now,I figure it will be a good general purpose shop vac. Will see where I am at budget wise after I finish my dust collector piping install ,getting quotes for material Monday. Anyhow I will probably look at Fein-Festool vacs and get one or the other down the road. Maybe I will try the dust deputy with a rigid route first. Lots of good ideas in all the posts here. Thanks, Mike.

[Wayne Cannon]

It may not be fancy, but over the years I've had both Fein and Shop-Vac brands of large roll-around shop vacuums. The Fein is definitely quieter and has a built in auto-on outlet; however, the Shop-Vac has a much stronger suction (whether that's in in/Hg or cfm, I can't tell you, but it isn't even close). I choose the Shop-Vac all the time now and have relegated the Fein to my miter saw (until I can connect it to my dust collector).

The Shop-Vacs are noisy. Their on/off switches fail (3 in 25 years). I just replace the switches with a Cutler-Hammer toggle switch. Then again, I never touch the switch on my Fein.

You can get HEPA filter bags for the Shop-Vac; and there is no way for dust to get back into the shop air, unless you are sloppy replacing bags or let them get too full.

I use an external auto-switch box for the same functionality as the Fein, primarily when sanding.

You can get filters and accessories for Shop-Vac & Ridgid just about anywhere -- definitely not the same for Fein, etc.

[George Bokros]

I have been following this thread because I was considering getting a new shop vac for dust collection on my miter saw and ROS. I looked at one at HD, Model WD1450, the signage at the vac showed it as the quietest one of the lot but did not give the decibel level so I called Ridgid. They told me it was 79 decibels. I had checked the decibel level on my current two shop vacs that are ~ 40 yrs old using an app on my phone. They both checked at 78 - 84 decibels depending on the app used. This being said my 40+ yr old shop vacs are as quiet as the newest "Scroll noise reduction" vacs at HD

Interesting. I guess I will save my money and keep what I have since I do not want to spend $400+ for a Fein, Bosch or the "green kool aid" models.

[Van Huskey]

I have been following this thread because I was considering getting a new shop vac for dust collection on my miter saw and ROS. I looked at one at HD, Model WD1450, the signage at the vac showed it as the quietest one of the lot but did not give the decibel level so I called Ridgid. They told me it was 79 decibels. I had checked the decibel level on my current two shop vacs that are ~ 40 yrs old using an app on my phone. They both checked at 78 - 84 decibels depending on the app used. This being said my 40+ yr old shop vacs are as quiet as the newest "Scroll noise reduction" vacs at HD

Interesting. I guess I will save my money and keep what I have since I do not want to spend $400+ for a Fein, Bosch or the "green kool aid" models.


The problem is the fallacy of SPL (sound pressure level) ratings. Due to the improper and useless use of dB ratings you actually have no clue how they compare. First, you have no idea what distance or in what type of environment Ridgid tests their vacuums, it could be at 10 feet in 1/4 space or 3 feet at 1/2 space etc. Second, as you found out "app" based SPL meters are pretty much useless. The 6dB variation they show is equal to a quadrupling of the sonic energy so that should show how woefully inaccurate these are. Also comparing even accurate SPL levels you still need to be using the same weighting for the meter which is especially important when measuring nuisance noise.

As I preach constantly unless you have an accurate SPL meter and know and replicate the conditions the advertised SPL were measured in you honestly have no idea how they compare one to another. Manufacturers SPL numbers for tools/machines mean nothing unless the test conditions are listed or they are derived using standards set by a third party like some of the Euro based machines are measured in compliance with governmental regulations. About the only thing they are good for is comparing different modes within a single company and even then it is just based on the assumption they tested each in the same manner.

The final issue is the frequency of the sound, some frequencies are far more irritating than others, "scroll" sound reduction is used in many industries (most notably AC compressors) and its biggest benefit is shifting the frequency so there is less "screaming" from what every is spinning. So again another example of how a single SPL reading is rather useless.

[Justin Ludwig]

I just wear ear plugs while in the shop - dB tests be damned. One of these days my help will stop talking to me in a normal voice and finally remember that my plugs are in. Sometimes I just ignore him on purpose until he speaks up.

[Tom Ewell]

Van hits on a good point, the frequency of a noise at dB plays a lot more into what we consider loud.

Back in the early 70's we were setting up sound around the dance floor of a disco. We were 'tuning' in the system to get a 'flat curve' of frequency as a baseline. While fiddling we dropped the highs and mids down to lowest possible and the meter in the center of the floor was reading 120db plus..... normally we'd be running for the doors but 'normal' conversation was easily done at the bottom of the freq. range.

One night, the Dj blew about half the woofers out, the 'screaming' of the vocals without the balance of the bass made the crowd quite irritable, the bouncers were busy that night.

[Van Huskey]

Van hits on a good point, the frequency of a noise at dB plays a lot more into what we consider loud.

Back in the early 70's we were setting up sound around the dance floor of a disco. We were 'tuning' in the system to get a 'flat curve' of frequency as a baseline. While fiddling we dropped the highs and mids down to lowest possible and the meter in the center of the floor was reading 120db plus..... normally we'd be running for the doors but 'normal' conversation was easily done at the bottom of the freq. range.

One night, the Dj blew about half the woofers out, the 'screaming' of the vocals without the balance of the bass made the crowd quite irritable, the bouncers were busy that night.

Humans can tolerate massive amounts of low frequency sound. I massively oversimplified the scroll sound reduction as it deals with some pretty "high science" dealing with pressure waves caused by significant differences in pressure between sections of the compressor (which a vacuum is) which cause the gas to pulsate which causes vibrations in the fan and fan housing radiating out. It then becomes a matter of designing the system to reduce the pressure wave or shift the frequency of the gas pulsations to a part of the frequency spectrum which is less intrusive to people. While not directly related to this type of vacuum another nuisance now issue is bearing noise, with brushless motors becoming more available one benefit is running them at speeds above 20K rpm and shifting the bearing noise above the human threshold (though your dog might not be as happy as you are). An example is the $400 Dyson hairdryer which runs up near 100K rpm so while the sound is still being created much of the motor (bearing) noise can't be heard by humans though you still obviously have some level of harmonics but they reduce in amplitude as the frequency reduces.

[Nick Decker]

Humans can tolerate massive amounts of low frequency sound. I massively oversimplified the scroll sound reduction as it deals with some pretty "high science" dealing with pressure waves caused by significant differences in pressure between sections of the compressor (which a vacuum is) which cause the gas to pulsate which causes vibrations in the fan and fan housing radiating out. It then becomes a matter of designing the system to reduce the pressure wave or shift the frequency of the gas pulsations to a part of the frequency spectrum which is less intrusive to people. While not directly related to this type of vacuum another nuisance now issue is bearing noise, with brushless motors becoming more available one benefit is running them at speeds above 20K rpm and shifting the bearing noise above the human threshold (though your dog might not be as happy as you are). An example is the $400 Dyson hairdryer which runs up near 100K rpm so while the sound is still being created much of the motor (bearing) noise can't be heard by humans though you still obviously have some level of harmonics but they reduce in amplitude as the frequency reduces.

Interesting. So, if you can't hear the hair dryer, can it still damage your hearing?

[Van Huskey]

Interesting. So, if you can't hear the hair dryer, can it still damage your hearing?

First, the hair dryer in question is not loud enough damage hearing even if it was audible unless the exposure time was near constant.

As to the root of your question, the conventional wisdom is sounds humans can't hear* don't damage hearing but there are some newer studies which suggest this might not be the case. Most of the new studies are based on lower frequencies and in part due to studying the impact of wind turbines.


* in general discussion human hearing is considered to be from about 20-20,000 hertz but this varies a lot by individual and age as well as the difficulty of nailing down the lower frequency limit and separating what one actually hears versus what one perceives from other senses in the infrasonic range.

[David Freed]

I have two of these - https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Vac-9621500-2-5-Gallon-5-5-Peak-Vac-N-Vac/dp/B0010W6YPM One for the shop and one for the house.

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This is my shop setup. It's ugly but works great.

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[George Bokros]

The problem is the fallacy of SPL (sound pressure level) ratings. Due to the improper and useless use of dB ratings you actually have no clue how they compare. First, you have no idea what distance or in what type of environment Ridgid tests their vacuums, it could be at 10 feet in 1/4 space or 3 feet at 1/2 space etc. Second, as you found out "app" based SPL meters are pretty much useless. The 6dB variation they show is equal to a quadrupling of the sonic energy so that should show how woefully inaccurate these are. Also comparing even accurate SPL levels you still need to be using the same weighting for the meter which is especially important when measuring nuisance noise.

As I preach constantly unless you have an accurate SPL meter and know and replicate the conditions the advertised SPL were measured in you honestly have no idea how they compare one to another. Manufacturers SPL numbers for tools/machines mean nothing unless the test conditions are listed or they are derived using standards set by a third party like some of the Euro based machines are measured in compliance with governmental regulations. About the only thing they are good for is comparing different modes within a single company and even then it is just based on the assumption they tested each in the same manner.

The final issue is the frequency of the sound, some frequencies are far more irritating than others, "scroll" sound reduction is used in many industries (most notably AC compressors) and its biggest benefit is shifting the frequency so there is less "screaming" from what every is spinning. So again another example of how a single SPL reading is rather useless.

So what you are saying is my comparison is worthless. I am not trying to be smart but what is your experience with this subject, mine is none and I only have what the meter told me. So are you saying the new Ridgid is likely quieter than my old shop vac? Wish I could buy the new one and if it is as loud as my current shop vac return it. I am not sure HD would be happy about my reason for the return "It is too loud for me."

[Van Huskey]

So what you are saying is my comparison is worthless. I am not trying to be smart but what is your experience with this subject, mine is none and I only have what the meter told me. So are you saying the new Ridgid is likely quieter than my old shop vac? Wish I could buy the new one and if it is as loud as my current shop vac return it. I am not sure HD would be happy about my reason for the return "It is too loud for me."

Any comparison you try to make based on your measurements to the numbers Ridgid gave you are indeed worthless because you don't have any idea of the protocols they used for their test. One of the big issues is the distance the SPL was measured at. Sound follows the inverse square law* and so with every doubling of distance SPL drops by 6dB. So relatively small variations in distance (since inside a shop you aren't going to be measuring at a large distance) can have significant implications to the measurement taken. Measurements of SPL are sometimes governed by industry or governmental standards but in general most of the tools/machines we buy are not so without full information on the test protocols there is no way we can make a direct comparison to the number Ridgid gave you. Even if you had access to an anechoic chamber and the best instruments in the world the numbers you would get are still useless to compare them to the Ridgid numbers without knowing how they performed the test.

My experience is being a 25+ year avid audiophile (though I hate that term) and having designed, built, tested and voiced dozens of speakers. While I am FAR from an expert this stuff is rather rudimentary and would be gleaned by any semi-serious noob spending time on an audio or home theater forum in their first week.

I also can't stress enough how the frequency of the sound will impact not only how loud a human perceives it but how irritating the sound is. So even if the sound has the same intensity one may be much more tolerable from one vac to the next and that is not quantifiable as a simple single number, but one could develop an algorithm to produce a single number to express "irritation" but I have never seen one.

In the end my point is a SPL expressed as simply XXdB means nothing if you don't have more information, manufacturers know this but in industries that aren't regulated simply use them as marketing BUT I imagine Ridgid's reluctance to put the information on their retail packages may speak to some concern they have about possibly complaints or legal action. Some items sold in the EU require specific SPL testing and other tests like vibration so numbers for those tools can be directly compared to other tools that have to meet the same governmental standards.

*the decay of sound waves if actually far more complex in most scenarios than the inverse square law because it really is only applicable to a true point source radiating into fully free space with no reflections to reinforce the direct waves but it is reasonably accurate for general discussion

[Mike Henderson]

So what you are saying is my comparison is worthless. I am not trying to be smart but what is your experience with this subject, mine is none and I only have what the meter told me. So are you saying the new Ridgid is likely quieter than my old shop vac? Wish I could buy the new one and if it is as loud as my current shop vac return it. I am not sure HD would be happy about my reason for the return "It is too loud for me."

You can take things back to Home Depot for just about any reason - or no reason. As long as you don't take advantage of them, they'll take it back.

While not as good, they will probably plug it in for you and turn it on. But in those big stores it's hard to judge what it will sound like in your shop - with all their background noise it may sound quiet there but loud in your shop.

Mike

[George Bokros]

Thanks for your insight Van. Test parameters are important. I can understand how they can have significant impact on test

Guess I should buy one and see what my ears tell me in my environment.

[Van Huskey]

Guess I should buy one and see what my ears tell me in my environment.

That really is the most important thing as none of these types of vacs are safe to run within a few feet of your ears for extended periods of time so the actual SPL is not that meaningful, how stressful they are running 12-15 feet away is where the value is at.

I would have no issue returning a vac that was advertised as being quiet if it didn't meet my expectations of quiet and I don't see this as taking advantage of a retailer. One thing you could do is test and report your SPL findings. While the app based SPL meters have poor absolute accuracy they are decent for direct comparison. Just place each vac in the same position in your shop and leave the phone in the exact same spot (and stand in the same place behind the phone) and while this still leaves variables it has some value. Report the SPL numbers as well as your subjective assessment of how irritating the sound is.

[Mike Kees]

Well I went out and actually looked at shop vacs today. Went to one store that had both Fein (1) and Festool. The sales guy right away tried to push me to Festool. I do not like sales people who try to tell me what I want ,last time I checked I am pretty sure that was my decision to make lol.Anyway my question is for those of you who know Fein vacs are the 'older style " ones more rounded in shape ? I remember the one difference being that the older style had variable speed airflow vs. fixed. How does the filter bag perform in these compared to the newer cartridge style. The prices were high,Festool was 850-1000 depending on what one. Fein was 400? Next I went to Home depot and looked at Rigid. The quietest one was also the biggest. I used to think big was good ,now I realize that smaller sometimes is better. Rigid was 180. So I started to think maybe I should buy the Fein now. Anyone have any suggestions ? All prices are Canadian dollars.

[mreza Salav]

I had a Rigid (still have it) and made a cyclone and added a HEPA filter (is over 11 years now).

351775

Then bought a Festool but wasn't impressed for the price, so returned it (have several other Festool tools).
I have one more larger Rigid that I bought. With life time warranty it is hard to beat these. Get a good hose for it and you can use it with other Festool tools if needed.

351777

[Clint Baxter]

Any comparison you try to make based on your measurements to the numbers Ridgid gave you are indeed worthless because you don't have any idea of the protocols they used for their test. One of the big issues is the distance the SPL was measured at. Sound follows the inverse square law* and so with every doubling of distance SPL drops by 6dB. So relatively small variations in distance (since inside a shop you aren't going to be measuring at a large distance) can have significant implications to the measurement taken. Measurements of SPL are sometimes governed by industry or governmental standards but in general most of the tools/machines we buy are not so without full information on the test protocols there is no way we can make a direct comparison to the number Ridgid gave you. Even if you had access to an anechoic chamber and the best instruments in the world the numbers you would get are still useless to compare them to the Ridgid numbers without knowing how they performed the test.

My experience is being a 25+ year avid audiophile (though I hate that term) and having designed, built, tested and voiced dozens of speakers. While I am FAR from an expert this stuff is rather rudimentary and would be gleaned by any semi-serious noob spending time on an audio or home theater forum in their first week.

I also can't stress enough how the frequency of the sound will impact not only how loud a human perceives it but how irritating the sound is. So even if the sound has the same intensity one may be much more tolerable from one vac to the next and that is not quantifiable as a simple single number, but one could develop an algorithm to produce a single number to express "irritation" but I have never seen one.

In the end my point is a SPL expressed as simply XXdB means nothing if you don't have more information, manufacturers know this but in industries that aren't regulated simply use them as marketing BUT I imagine Ridgid's reluctance to put the information on their retail packages may speak to some concern they have about possibly complaints or legal action. Some items sold in the EU require specific SPL testing and other tests like vibration so numbers for those tools can be directly compared to other tools that have to meet the same governmental standards.

*the decay of sound waves if actually far more complex in most scenarios than the inverse square law because it really is only applicable to a true point source radiating into fully free space with no reflections to reinforce the direct waves but it is reasonably accurate for general discussion


Well I went out and actually looked at shop vacs today. Went to one store that had both Fein (1) and Festool. The sales guy right away tried to push me to Festool. I do not like sales people who try to tell me what I want ,last time I checked I am pretty sure that was my decision to make lol.Anyway my question is for those of you who know Fein vacs are the 'older style " ones more rounded in shape ? I remember the one difference being that the older style had variable speed airflow vs. fixed. How does the filter bag perform in these compared to the newer cartridge style. The prices were high,Festool was 850-1000 (tel:850-1000) depending on what one. Fein was 400? Next I went to Home depot and looked at Rigid. The quietest one was also the biggest. I used to think big was good ,now I realize that smaller sometimes is better. Rigid was 180. So I started to think maybe I should buy the Fein now. Anyone have any suggestions ? All prices are Canadian dollars.

I have been happy with the performance of the filtration in my Fein vacs. I have the cloth bag type filters in all three. I have a hepa cartridge for my Turbo II but have not used it in years. Not since I started using dust deputy(s) in conjunction with my vacs. I use the DD whenever I'm collecting the really fine debris. If I do something that may be hazardous like lead based paint remediation, I use the DD and my Festool which has HEPA filtration.

Essentially, normal shop vac tasks are handled well by their cloth bag filters. My two cents.

[Paul Wunder]

I combined a 12 gal Rigid vac with a ClearVue mini cyclone and put both on a cart. In two years of heavy use (mostly connected to a Ridgid oscillating spindle sander I have not had more that a few specks of dust make it past the mini cyclone dust bin and into the Ridgid vac itself. Combined cost: Under $200, without the cart.

[Stew Hagerty]

One more alternative is this:

[URL="https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007ULBA4W/ref=mp_s_a_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1484515344&sr=8-10&pi=SL75_QL70&keywords=Vacmaster[/URL]

It has a relatively quiet 2-stage motor (approximately 72db) with HEPA filtration. CFM rating of 125 and a water lift of 112".
And the best part is that it costs less than $200!

[Rich Riddle]

I own the Rigid vacuum as well as an older Fein unit. The Fein gets used far more often than the Rigid. I like that it has the outlets on it that allow it to automatically start when the tool you are using gets turned on. The filter also has superior qualities when compared to the Rigid. That said, anything trumps not using anything at all.

[Matt Lau]

Fein- small, tough; quiet, tool trigger, variable suction (older one); poor ergonomics/tool storage; skip the newer one imho, unless you want a flat top to hold your tools.
Nilfisk- quiet; super tough; quiet (about same as Fein IMHO); better ergonomics/hose storage; the Attix AS/E version has tool-trigger and filter clean. I like my Nilfisk Attix 8 AS/E over my fein Turbo 1 (but I had to chip out the 5 mm of concrete inside before using it; mine was from a pawnshop in Las Vegas, via ebay). Bags and filters are cheaper than Fein/Festool. Stihl SE122 is a rebranded Nilfisk Attix30. Makita is a rebranded Nilfisk Attix50.
Festool- quiettish (newer version); excellent integration with systainers; nice system but pricey; great as a festool platform (vac + dolly), but accessories get expensive fast.
Bosch- made by Starmix (industrial maker of vacs for Festool, Metabo, Mafell, etc). I've never used a Starmix, but they have an excelllent reputation for being darned near indestructible. I think there's a systainer doc accessory in the works.

[Matt Lau]

FWIW, there's three Nilfisk Attix8 on ebay for $269. It doesn't have the filter clean or tool trigger though.
There's a broken Nilfisk Attix 50 hepa (just splice new power chord, easy fix).
There's a broken Fein Turbo 2 (9 55 16)-- I wouldn't get it since housing is cracked, but it'll probably still work.

Anyways, I almost always buy used.

[Van Huskey]

Ran into this review today:

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power-tools/dust-extraction-tools/dust-collecting-hepa-vacuums_o

[George Bokros]

Ran into this review today:

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power-tools/dust-extraction-tools/dust-collecting-hepa-vacuums_o

Nice review. Thanks for sharing.

[Larry Edgerton]

Something to keep in mind.

The Festool EQ sander has a feedback circuit that turns a light on when the hose is off{?}, and the feedback loop runs a small amount of current all the time. Its enough that my Porter Cable drywall vac will not shut off. I have to unplug or use the manual switch. Makes no difference if you shut that off, only shuts off the light.

I bought the little suitcase Festool vac and mounted to the ceiling for this reason. So, if you are using an EQ, check that the auto switch on the vac in question will work.

[Mike Kees]

Van thanks for that review. It kind of confirms what I have figured out, I will probably end up with two vacs eventually. I am going to buy a Rigid for now and use a dust deputy. I have to get my main dust collection installed and payed for and figure out air filtration devices also.

[Van Huskey]

Something to keep in mind.

The Festool EQ sander has a feedback circuit that turns a light on when the hose is off{?}, and the feedback loop runs a small amount of current all the time. Its enough that my Porter Cable drywall vac will not shut off. I have to unplug or use the manual switch. Makes no difference if you shut that off, only shuts off the light.

I bought the little suitcase Festool vac and mounted to the ceiling for this reason. So, if you are using an EQ, check that the auto switch on the vac in question will work.

IIRC I read it does the same thing with the new Fein, I am a little hazy on that so it may have been another auto-on vac but it is an issue with more than the PC.