How Close is Good Enough?

[Bill McCarthy]

Hello Everyone. This is my first post. I joined today after arriving here many times via search engines.

I live by myself in a Manufactured Home (they used to be called mobile homes). It is approximately 15 years old. I've begun (and am doing this very, very slowly) refurbing the house, with the intention to work my way through the various rooms, replacing what is there. The countertops are beginning to come apart and the kitchen cabinets aren't the healthiest things around.

I've gotten tired of lugging tools outside and then back into the house (I don't have a garage or shop), so I've decided to turn one of the bedrooms into a small shop. My father died last Spring and I inherited all of his tools (stuff he promised would be mine going back as far as I can remember). I'm building one of Paul Seller's workbenches, made from SPF 2x4's from Home Depot.

The bench has two surfaces about 12 inches wide and 6 ft long. There is a space in the middle for a tool well that's approximately 10.5 inches wide. I'm planing the top by hand. I've been using a couple of pieces of angle aluminium for winding sticks. I thought I was doing pretty good, across both sections the winding sticks matched up. Then I noticed I had gaps under the winding sticks towards the middle of the bench. Even though the outside of each section were even with one another, they are not square to their own outside edge.

I'm working the plane(s) trying to get each section square, but I'm afraid once I've done that, the two sections will no longer be flat across the top. I started with a top that was 3 inches thick. I'm afraid that by the time I'm done, it'll only be 2 inches thick and either flat or square but not both.

Can anyone give me some suggestions on how to attack this? Also, how flat is flat and how square is square? I know its wood, so it isn't going to be a precise as metal, so when is it good enough? I retired from working for the government, so I'm OK with "close enough for government work", but in this case I just don't know what that is.

Thanks for the help.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Getting something flat: easy. Getting it square: easy. Getting it the right length, width, thickness: all easy. The trick is getting it to be all of those things at once. . .

What kind of plane are you using? Shorter planes (a No. 4, say) can tend to ride the highs and lows rather than evening them out. Generally speaking, whatever you have you want to try to identify the high spots, and then approach it in a way that the high spots get knocked down, and everything gradually comes into the same plane. It helps a lot to stop periodically, measure, mark, and then focus your effort on a specific area.

If you are going to be building stuff on this, it helps a lot to have a flat, level surface, so it is worth it to spend some time and try to get it right.

[Phil Mueller]

Hi Bill, and welcome to the creek. Short answer is you can google "flatening a work bench" and you'll likely find a number of helpful videos and articles. As Nicholas said, a longer plane will be helpful, but shorter planes can work with a little patience.

I assume the low spot runs down the middle of the bench length wise. Theoretically, if the gap under the angle iron is 1/4", then that is what you will need to remove from the sides. I highly doubt it's a 1" gap, so you should end up with a decent thickness top.

If you have a longer plane (say a #5/6/7), one way to attack this is to plane diagonally, or even across the width of the top. This should help to knock down the sides and "float" over the low center. Keep going in alternating diagonal directions until you start to take shavings in the center.

If you don't have a long plane, you will need to judge the amount of wood to be removed from each side (again, by the gap under the angle iron). Check every foot or so along the top, so you don't take too much off in any one place. Take multiple lengthwise passes on each high side and continue to check along the length often.

As you get closer to level, scribble the high spots with pencil and just work those areas. One you're fairly flat, you can then take full length passes, side by side, until you smooth things out.

The nice thing about SMC, is you will hopefully get a number of different ideas to approach this. Give it a little time and I'm sure others will be along to help.

Also, when things get frustrating, just walk away for awhile. A fresh perspective will bring the work back into fun. Works for me, anyway.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Bill and welcome to the Creek.

Not much for me to add beyond what Nicholas and Phil have already said other than people like to look at pictures if you can post them.

"Close enough for government work" is a phrase that kind of sets my teeth on edge. I used to work for a quasi government agency. "Close enough" was seldom good enough and many used it as a justification to "leave it for the next guy."

If you are going to build cabinets or chairs you want a flat and level surface so when you finish a piece it will go in to service sitting flat and level.

jtk

[Matthew Hills]

Is your top mounted on the base?

Getting (and keeping) my workbench quite flat is my highest priority among those you listed. This flatness is transferred to almost everything you do on the bench. Since this tends to be a big surface, you will want to consult your straight edges frequently, and nice to have both short planes (to knock down humps you've identified with your straight edge) and then a longer plane (#5 or #7) to spread the flatness. But your inspection with the straight edge and winding sticks should be your guide.

Square'ish is nice. But I don't rely upon the workbench edge as a reference for square.

[Jerry Olexa]

Agree with Mathew: a longer jointer type plane #6 or #7 will help much on leveling..Difficult to do with a shorter plane #3 or 4..
Squareness is easy with an accurate square.

[Bill McCarthy]

Getting something flat: easy. Getting it square: easy. Getting it the right length, width, thickness: all easy. The trick is getting it to be all of those things at once. . .


See! I knew there had to be a trick to it. I was just hoping that you all would tell me and it would be easy. Unfortunately, that's not the case. You've told me, its the easy part that's missing.

It is nice to know that getting it flat is more important that having it square to the sides. That actually should make my job easier.

As for the planes I have. Two that I remember from being a kid, that I got from my father are a Millers Falls 14B, which is the same size as a Stanley #5. The Frog is not adjustable. So with this plane, I've put a slight camber on the iron. The other one is a Millers Falls 9, which I guess is equivalent to a Stanley #4. Two others he must have acquired after I moved out, because I don't remember them are a Stanley #3, which looked to be almost new and a no name #3 size. The no name #3 was pretty much junk and I wasn't able to tune it up; I was about to trash it when I learned about scrub planes, so that's what I did with this one (technically, I guess, its actually a small Fore plane).

On my own, off of Ebay, I've gotten a Stanley #5 and just after Christmas I picked up a Millers Falls 22 (Stanley 7 size). I've had to order a new iron for the Millers Falls 22, I placed the order this past Friday from Lee Valley, its on back order.

I've been working just as you guys suggested, side to side and diagonal using both #5s and the #4.

The top(s) were initially separate and I thought I had them pretty flat. When I went to mount them, I had more work to do on the bottoms to get rid of the rocking. Now they are attached, glued to the sides and lag bolts from underneath. If you visualise a "V", that's what I'm facing. The lowest spots are towards the center and maybe 1/8 or 1/16 out from flat. Swinging those planes, taking an itsy bitsy slice each time, over the length of 12 ft, gets tiring, I was hoping you knew a secret that I didn't.

I do hope to build cabinets and I might try my hand at a new storm door. I realize that if I don't get it right now, everything afterwards won't be right (weakest link in the chain sorta thing).

As for the government thing, it was meant as a joke; although I did retire from the gov't. I worked on computer systems and radar systems. Tolerances on those were generally measured to the millionths or smaller.

Here's a picture, as requested. Don't laugh to much at the joinery, I gotta start some place. I chopped the mortises from both sides and they didn't quite line up. I wasn't going to trash everything and start over (this is after all a learning project).

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[David Eisenhauer]

From where I'm looking, I see no need to trash anything at all. Very good start and you are at a fairly important step. As the other guys have said, flat and twist (wind) free is important and I would not worry now if the sides of the table tops are square to the top surface. You could really use that #7 at this point, but I would use my straight edges to figure out how much high I was along each edge (this is going by the fact that you said you basically had a vee shape) and then run a pencil line along the full lengths of all sides down where you believe you would end up with flat, co planer tops. Then plane a chamfer along each long edge down (or close to) to the pencil lines. Now you can run your cross and diagonal plane strokes from side to side without chipping out the edges. If I had a vee shape running the full length of the outer edges of each table top side, I would run full length, parallel plane strokes down each outer edge (and in a couple inches) to start bringing the outer edges down. Cross and diagonal planning works well when you have an irregular out of flat edge, but if the entire edge is high, I run some long strokes to get started with bringing the edge down if it is comfortable to do so. Going cross wise, the longer #7 plane will force the blade to take thickness off at the outer edges only at first, then gradually start taking wood further back towards the center as the tops get flatter. You can do it and probably won't have to do this much work on it again over time as you re work it some to get back to dead flat again after tearing it up when working.

[Stewie Simpson]

I was at a Bunnings Store last week and noticed their selling the 2400MM Empire True Blue Spirit Levels. Same as Brian H. has been using. Would come in handy as a long straight edge when flattening a decent length work bench top. https://www.bunnings.com.au/empire-2400mm-true-blue-box-beam-level_p5660523

[Jim Koepke]

The valley though the center has me wondering if this might be a case for shimming the underside if it can be done at this point.

jtk

[Bill McCarthy]

OK guys, I'm back at it again. Phil, your idea of walking away and coming back later seems to have helped. I stopped last night and didn't go back until this morning.

I don't think things are as bad as I first described, and I feel like I'm making progress. I think part of my problem is/was not trusting the work I had already done. My birthday is in a couple of weeks and I'll be 58. I'm just now learning how to use hand planes. As a kid, I could never get my father's stuff to work right and I gave up on them. It wasn't until he died that I acquired any hand planes. Based upon comments my father would make throughout the years and now seeing his tools; I'm beginning to think he was afraid of things that were sharp. None of the chisels, planes, and I expect saws were sharp when I received them. I'm guessing that's why they never worked for me when I was young.

I think what has happened here is that I assumed I had not gotten the two sides of the tops flat, when they rocked when put in place. Instead of checking the stretcher across the legs, I planed the bottom side of the tops to stop the rocking. I believe this has then transferred through to the top sides. So I think I induced the twist.

Looking more closely, I've discovered that the "V" shape does not extend the length of the bench. It only appears at one end, extending lengthwise, towards the middle. I'm working both sides, slowly with lots of checks with the straight edge laying width wise, marking the high spots with a pencil, and I am getting it flat. Knowing that it does not have to be square to the sides is a great relief.

Once I get it flat from side to side, I'll go back and check it lengthwise. For a brief time yesterday, I had taken an iron out of the #5 plane and put it into the #7. It wasn't perfect, but... I might give that a try again when I get to checking the length.

[David Eisenhauer]

I believe that a #5 iron is narrower than a #7 (2" vs 2-3/8" or something close?), but, at any rate, do you have a way to sharpen the plane irons? There is a world of difference between a sharp iron and a dull one and, at a certain point, they will quit cutting and only produce "dust" when pushed across the wood. As for the rest, it sounds like you are beginning to see a path towards progress. Sharpening needs to be addressed very soon if it has not been done so already. Stay with it.

[Bill McCarthy]

I believe that a #5 iron is narrower than a #7 (2" vs 2-3/8" or something close?), but, at any rate, do you have a way to sharpen the plane irons? There is a world of difference between a sharp iron and a dull one and, at a certain point, they will quit cutting and only produce "dust" when pushed across the wood. As for the rest, it sounds like you are beginning to see a path towards progress. Sharpening needs to be addressed very soon if it has not been done so already. Stay with it.

David,
You're correct about the sizes of the irons between the #5 and the #7 plane. In my case, its not ideal having the #5 iron in the #7 plane, but from what all you guys have said and my understanding of the geometry of how the planes work, I figured it couldn't hurt to try using the smaller iron. It does seem to be working. Now if I could address the physics of the planes, and make the #7 feel like a #5 I don't think I would sweat quite as much (I'm not sure of the weight of the #5, but the #7 is 8 lbs). I'm not used to slinging that kind of weight around and I am feeling it in my arms.

Sharpening, yes. I have a series of DMT's whetstones, ranging from x-coarse to x-fine. It was by using these, that I finally was able to get my father's stuff working, all those things that wouldn't work when I was a kid. I've already touched up the edge of the #5 iron I'm using the most, twice.

I've also received an email from Lee Valley saying that my new #7 iron will be shipping today.

[Simon MacGowen]

Flattening is an easy task -- in theory. Taking out all the high spots, blah blah blah. But how? It isn't just about taking out the high spots but taking out proper amounts so you could get as thick a board as you could. Some don't even know how to use winding sticks properly!

Anyone who has watched Rob Cosman's video dealing with a twisted board about 8" by 20" knows it is easier said than done to dress a top. I can't remember the time he took but it's well over 15 mins (half an hour? he does not edit his tape for the most part), even for someone like him, to dress one side of that small board. Of course he was aiming at dead flat and not just flat and so he was being picky about his result. I have seen another video flattening a panel top but it was fast-tracked. If you need step-by-step help, FW has had at least two articles on flattening benchtops and one of them is really good. Paul Sellers also has a video on flattening and his is half an hour to an hour long.

Flattening a large panel or top is never an easy task unless the deformity is very mild. Also, go with at least a low angle jack or jointer plane and forget about a #4 for a large top.
Simon

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I am not an expert (have not watched the video referenced either, and this is not a criticism of anyone or their advice) but I have done a fair amount of preparing rough lumber with hand tools. Brian Holcombe does a lot of very fine hand work, and talks a lot about the importance of stock selection (i.e. Not buying a problem board to begin with). He is right. The other thing that has made a difference for me is using the right tool for the job. If a board is 1/4 out at some point, I don't try to plane that down with a jointer, or even my metal jack.

If you are trying to correct 1/4 of an inch using a plane that is tuned to take shavings measured in the thousands or even the hundreds, you are going to need dozens and dozens of passes to get anywhere. I used to do that, and it can literally take days to get a board in shape with that approach. Now I will grab a scrub, or my wooden jack (which can handle much thicker cuts as compared to my No. 5 Stanley), and get most of the work done in a coarse (but quick) manner. Then to the other planes with finer settings.

You do have to mark carefully, because it is easy to get carried away with planes set for truly coarse cuts.

[Simon MacGowen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m231_HKCOWs
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m231_HKCOWs)

That's not even a panel top.

I have yet to meet any hand-tool teachers or furniture makers who say flattening a panel top is easy. Rob Cosman can cut a dovetail in 3-1/2 mins, but I bet he won't show flattening a twisted top under 15 mins. Many struggle with truing the edge of a stock with a plane and find that task not easy. Flattening a board (cup, bow and twist) is harder than truing an edge, how could that be easy to them?

Simon

[Dan Barr]

Hi Bill, and welcome to the creek. Short answer is you can google "flatening a work bench" and you'll likely find a number of helpful videos and articles. As Nicholas said, a longer plane will be helpful, but shorter planes can work with a little patience.

I assume the low spot runs down the middle of the bench length wise. Theoretically, if the gap under the angle iron is 1/4", then that is what you will need to remove from the sides. I highly doubt it's a 1" gap, so you should end up with a decent thickness top.

If you have a longer plane (say a #5/6/7), one way to attack this is to plane diagonally, or even across the width of the top. This should help to knock down the sides and "float" over the low center. Keep going in alternating diagonal directions until you start to take shavings in the center.

If you don't have a long plane, you will need to judge the amount of wood to be removed from each side (again, by the gap under the angle iron). Check every foot or so along the top, so you don't take too much off in any one place. Take multiple lengthwise passes on each high side and continue to check along the length often.

As you get closer to level, scribble the high spots with pencil and just work those areas. One you're fairly flat, you can then take full length passes, side by side, until you smooth things out.

The nice thing about SMC, is you will hopefully get a number of different ideas to approach this. Give it a little time and I'm sure others will be along to help.

Also, when things get frustrating, just walk away for awhile. A fresh perspective will bring the work back into fun. Works for me, anyway.

What phil said plus, your top does not need to be dead flat. I just flattened my bench two weeks ago. I have a couple of spots with .001 or .002 gaps. Only makes a difference (very very small) when planing thin stock. Or if youre putting sandpaper on the top to sharpen or shape something.

[Stewie Simpson]

Dan; if you achieved a tolerance within flat of 0.001 to 0.002 thou that's a damn good effort.

Stewie;

[Dan Barr]

Took a long time. I had to make plane irons almost perfectly square, very very slight camber. After all the rough cutting with the jointer, I would make a set of diagonal or straight passes with my jack (set up more like a smoother), feel the plane tracks with my fingers, run a thin pass over the high side, check again, another pass.... Had to make some passes using minute lateral adjustments . Three days later and checking with a starret straight edge every 4-6 inches, at least thirty times. Call me crazy... Then i took a toothing plane and slightly roughed the whole top. One pass left to right, one pass right to left, both at 45 degrees to front. Two coats of tung oil after that.

[Stewie Simpson]

Dan; that the beauty of a slight to no camber, you gain the full benefits of lateral blade adjustment.

regards Stewie;

[William Fretwell]

Perhaps check the floor at each set of legs of the bench with your level. You may need to move the bench to find a flatter spot for the leveling work. Did you check the supports with winding sticks before adding the tops?

You have lots of wood left! That is a great choice for a first bench. Paul mounts his vise in front of the front edge so you can get your fingers behind the work so not square is OK if the vise is mounted square.

A long plane does help a lot but identify all the high spots and mark with pencil scribble, remove them with a #4 plane from various angles. When the high spots are minimal then change to a longer plane. Diagonal planing helps. You will have lots of shavings. Just keep scribbling, watching and learning. It will get flatter; if it does not then search out the high points again with the shorter plane.

You are not working to thousands of an inch! Changes in humidity will move the wood several % so don't worry.

[Bill McCarthy]

Dan; if you achieved a tolerance within flat of 0.001 to 0.002 thou that's a damn good effort.

Stewie;

Being new at this stuff, I'm not even going to try for that kind of tolerance. I'm shooting for no light under the straight edge kind of tolerance. I stopped working today around sundown. I think I'm making progress. I have been at it for a couple of days already though. Using the jointer has helped. (I even put an edge on the original iron and used that.)

Nicholas, I wasn't out by 1/4 inch; it was more between 1/8 and 1/16 and I did do most of the heavy lifting with a scrub type plane.

On my way home this evening a question occurred to me that I hope one of you guys could answer. On the other hand, I'm not sure I really want to know. Its regarding winding sticks. The way I've seen them used in videos and the way I am using them, is to look for twist across the width, looking down the length. Do I also need to look for twist along the length by sighting across the width? If I do, do I need winding sticks that are longer than the length of what I'm looking at? In my case, the bench is 6 ft long. Do I need winding sticks that are longer than 6 ft? (I don't think I have enough space in the room to get back far enough to see the entire 6 ft at the same time.)

Now the answer I'd prefer to hear is that I don't need to concern myself with that, thus no need for longer winding sticks. I also sometimes find myself living in a fairy tale too, where everyone lives happily ever after.

[Tony Wilkins]

Being new at this stuff, I'm not even going to try for that kind of tolerance. I'm shooting for no light under the straight edge kind of tolerance. I stopped working today around sundown. I think I'm making progress. I have been at it for a couple of days already though. Using the jointer has helped. (I even put an edge on the original iron and used that.)

Nicholas, I wasn't out by 1/4 inch; it was more between 1/8 and 1/16 and I did do most of the heavy lifting with a scrub type plane.

On my way home this evening a question occurred to me that I hope one of you guys could answer. On the other hand, I'm not sure I really want to know. Its regarding winding sticks. The way I've seen them used in videos and the way I am using them, is to look for twist across the width, looking down the length. Do I also need to look for twist along the length by sighting across the width? If I do, do I need winding sticks that are longer than the length of what I'm looking at? In my case, the bench is 6 ft long. Do I need winding sticks that are longer than 6 ft? (I don't think I have enough space in the room to get back far enough to see the entire 6 ft at the same time.)

Now the answer I'd prefer to hear is that I don't need to concern myself with that, thus no need for longer winding sticks. I also sometimes find myself living in a fairy tale too, where everyone lives happily ever after.

Just across the width is all you need. No need for 6ft winding sticks.

[Bill McCarthy]

Perhaps check the floor at each set of legs of the bench with your level. You may need to move the bench to find a flatter spot for the leveling work. Did you check the supports with winding sticks before adding the tops?

You have lots of wood left! That is a great choice for a first bench. Paul mounts his vise in front of the front edge so you can get your fingers behind the work so not square is OK if the vise is mounted square.

A long plane does help a lot but identify all the high spots and mark with pencil scribble, remove them with a #4 plane from various angles. When the high spots are minimal then change to a longer plane. Diagonal planing helps. You will have lots of shavings. Just keep scribbling, watching and learning. It will get flatter; if it does not then search out the high points again with the shorter plane.

You are not working to thousands of an inch! Changes in humidity will move the wood several % so don't worry.

Your post showed up while I was working on my last post.

Unfortunately I didn't check the supports, I think that's what has caused my problem. As for the lots of shavings part, You're right. The 5 gallon shop vac is full, a 66 qt storage container is full, and I still have a big pile on the floor. I'll dump the shavings out in the woods behind the house tomorrow. The vise showed up today, but I haven't opened the box yet, to see how it goes together. I do intend on mounting it the way Paul does.

Since I switched over to using the jointer, I have been doing just what you said. Going back to the high spots, across the width I've used the smoother, along the length I've used the jack.

Once I got the jointer up and running today, I went back 90 degrees to the width and also diagonal, both left and right. I thought I had done OK with the jack plane, but the jointer caught even more.

So far it has been a good learning experience. I plan on making wooden countertops in the kitchen (I've already done a two sink vanity, but used a belt sander.) Where I'm at now with this top is much flatter than I would need for the countertops.

[Bill McCarthy]

Just across the width is all you need. No need for 6ft winding sticks.


Now that's an answer I like! I can keep living in my fairy tale.

[Dan Barr]

Dan; that the beauty of a slight to no camber, you gain the full benefits of lateral blade adjustment.

regards Stewie;

Amen! Being able to shave just the scallops is gratifying. It took a couple honing sessions to stop putting too much camber!

[QUOTE=

You are not working to thousands of an inch! Changes in humidity will move the wood several % so don't worry.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Get to flat with a decent straightedge along length/width (a little light peeking through here and there is fine). And you'll be more than happy. I got carried away with perfection and wasted a whole bunch of time. Necessary, NO.

[Bill McCarthy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m231_HKCOWs
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m231_HKCOWs)

That's not even a panel top.

I have yet to meet any hand-tool teachers or furniture makers who say flattening a panel top is easy. Rob Cosman can cut a dovetail in 3-1/2 mins, but I bet he won't show flattening a twisted top under 15 mins. Many struggle with truing the edge of a stock with a plane and find that task not easy. Flattening a board (cup, bow and twist) is harder than truing an edge, how could that be easy to them?

Simon

Simon
Thanks for the link. I do enjoy Paul's videos and I learn a lot from him.

From watching this, I can see some mistakes I made. When running the scrub plane, rather than just looking for the high spots, as Paul shows, I took the approach of cutting everything down to approximately the same height. Then I used the other planes.

Now I can see how you would thickness a board to a specific number. My method wouldn't get me there and I wasn't sure how that was accomplished.

[William Fretwell]

You can reflect on putting the bench on a level piece of floor and how much easier it is to plane the supports level with winding sticks than the top! :)

[Bill McCarthy]

Well, I can finally report that my bench top is flat.

Now to investigate the vise and get it installed.

William you're right. the nice thing about the way I did it this time, is I'll never neglect to check the legs and stretchers again.

[Phil Mueller]

Congrats Bill!

[Jim Koepke]

Congrats Bill!

+1 on that,

jtk

[Dan Barr]

Congrats! Now you're ready to play!

[David Eisenhauer]

Good stuff Bill. Way to go.

[Bill McCarthy]

Well, I'm pleased to announce I've just completed the assembly of my first bench. I was actually shooting for yesterday, but I'll accept today. Tomorrow I go for some surgery and won't be able to lift anything heavy for 6 weeks. This would be considered heavy. I don't know how much it weighs, but while manipulating it (so I could flatten and square the sides), it slipped and landed on my foot. My foot is all black and blue.

Its a total of 3' wide and 6' long. The well in the middle is 10 1/4" wide 2" deep. I used red oak for the jaws of the vice, and installed it the way Paul Sellers shows in his blog. The vise itself is a 9" Eclipse, with a quick release. Paul shows two ways of building the legs, one way accommodating a tail vise and one without. I've constructed the legs such that in the future, I can come back and add a tail vise.

After I've recovered enough from the surgery, I plan on finishing it. I'm guessing that would be a good "light duty" project.

Because I've done this in a bed room, I've put masonite on the floor to protect the carpet. I may have to figure a way of securing it to the wall. Even though it is heavy (a total of 30 2x4s), the masonite is slippery and it slides around a little.

Also, because I was told you guys like to see pictures, I've attached a few.

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[Jim Koepke]

Looks good Bill.

You might fine a little bit of rubber under the legs will stop the sliding. It may be advantageous to be able to move the bench away from the walls at times.

jtk

[David Eisenhauer]

Outstanding Bill. That bench will have you flying like the wind when you recover from surgery (and a black/blue foot). You ought to just use the bench on the carpeted floor like Brian H does and see if that causes you to start turning out laser accurate joinery like he produces. Just a thought. I don't know about all of this level stuff as I think it is highly overrated and takes the fun out of chasing something across the table on its journey towards the floor.

[Bill McCarthy]

You ought to just use the bench on the carpeted floor like Brian H does and see if that causes you to start turning out laser accurate joinery like he produces. Just a thought.

I'll probably stick with the masonite. The option for the laser, which in addition to cutting the joinery also Zaps the sawdust before it hits the floor, was just too expensive (besides, I thought this was supposed to be about working with hand tools. Are you implying that Brian cheats by using a laser?).:)


I don't know about all of this level stuff as I think it is highly overrated and takes the fun out of chasing something across the table on its journey towards the floor.

Don't worry Dave. Even though the bench, inexplicably, turned out level; I did leave lots of sharp edges and corners that I can jamb my hands and head against while diving to catch those errant pieces that don't want to stay put.

[Noah Magnuson]

Do I need winding sticks that are longer than 6 ft? (I don't think I have enough space in the room to get back far enough to see the entire 6 ft at the same time.)

Now the answer I'd prefer to hear is that I don't need to concern myself with that, thus no need for longer winding sticks. I also sometimes find myself living in a fairy tale too, where everyone lives happily ever after.

Usually, your eye can be used for surprising accuracy sighting down the length of a board's edges, but if you want the assurance of a full-length straightedge, drive a brad/pushpin into the corner and pull a length of fishing line along the edge.