What wood for white shaker style cabinet doors?

[Jaromir Svoboda]

I would like to replace kitchen cabinet doors, what wood would you use for white shaker style door?

Thank you.

[Paul Girouard]

I would like to replace kitchen cabinet doors, what wood would you use for white shaker style door?

Thank you.


Poplar for the styles and rails , with a 1/4" MDF panel.

[Darcy Warner]

Poplar is just too soft for my likings for cabinets. Soft maple is just a bit more money and paints nicer.

[John TenEyck]

+1 Whatever maple you can buy cheapest, and MDF for the panels.


John

[Martin Wasner]

Poplar is just too soft for my likings for cabinets. Soft maple is just a bit more money and paints nicer.

I agree.

I have had problems with grain telegraphing through as well with finish that can't build very thick.

I use a veneered mdf cored material for the panels, but raw mdf works fine. Just a preference of mine.

[Jim Becker]

+1 Whatever maple you can buy cheapest, and MDF for the panels.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the best experience with using the MDF for the panels. Even after "good finishing", I've experienced moisture issues causing noticeable swelling in areas over the years with the doors that got the MDF panels in my kitchen. Those that were replaced with plywood panels didn't have that problem.
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OP, I tend to use poplar for this because I have a lot of it off my property, but I kinda agree with Darcy that soft maple may be a better choice.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

We use hard maple for all our cabinetry paint grade work, with an MDF core/maple face and back veneer. The veneered panel still looks like "wood" due to the small pores and some grain still being noticeable under the post catalyzed pigmented lacquer/catalyzed primer we use.

Never have had any issues with moisture. I have used some ply core for panels before but have had some develop surface checking over time. We have a crazy swing in %RH seasonally. With the veneered MDF I have not had any issues with face checking.

[Bill Adamsen]

Hard maple works great and the panels ... I use glued up wood panels but probably the rational thing is MDF.

[Patrick Walsh]

I'M about to build a pretty large kitchen of paint grade cabinets. I'm going with rift/quarter sawn hard maple for the stiles and rails, face frames, doors and drawer fronts.

The floating door pannles will be 1/4" baltic birch. Everything else will be paint grade 3/4 and 1/2 birch plywood.

[Andy Giddings]

Maple or ash for the frame, BB for the panel

[Darcy Warner]

SM is just easier on tooling and machines a bit better than HM.

I only use mdf panels on things like wainscoting with flat panels.

[Martin Wasner]

I'M about to build a pretty large kitchen of paint grade cabinets. I'm going with rift/quarter sawn hard maple for the stiles and rails, face frames, doors and drawer fronts.

The floating door pannles will be 1/4" baltic birch. Everything else will be paint grade 3/4 and 1/2 birch plywood.


You're going to regret using Baltic Birch for the panels.

[Patrick Walsh]

Why do you say that?


You're going to regret using Baltic Birch for the panels.

[Justin Ludwig]

Baltic birch panels like to twist. It can cause your doors to rack or twist.

I use soft maple paint grade and mdf panels for painted shaker. Hard maple isn't available in my area without special order. Leave poplar for substrate work. It's too soft.

[Martin Wasner]

Baltic birch panels like to twist. It can cause your doors to rack or twist.

I use soft maple paint grade and mdf panels for painted shaker. Hard maple isn't available in my area without special order. Leave poplar for substrate work. It's too soft.

Also the grain is very open on Baltic Birch. I've used it in a pinch a few times, and always regretted it.

[Martin Wasner]

And footballs. Even on 3B there's footballs on the back of the sheet. I don't know if there's a grade that is completely free of them or not.

[Mark Blatter]

We use hard maple for all our cabinetry paint grade work, with an MDF core/maple face and back veneer. The veneered panel still looks like "wood" due to the small pores and some grain still being noticeable under the post catalyzed pigmented lacquer/catalyzed primer we use.


+1 on this. I built some out of poplar and while it painted nicely, it was so soft that every bump put a ding in it. Seems like it all takes is one of my grandkids to look at is when they are fussing to dent it. I won't use anything but maple any more.

[Keith Weber]

This is on topic with a question I had recently and never got around to asking. I have white cabinets in my present house. I love the look, but they're cheap cabinets. I'd like to build some higher quality cabinets when I move, but I was wondering how you finish white cabinets. In other words, what kind of paint do you finish them with so that the finish doesn't destroy the effort you put into making nice cabinets?

[Andy Giddings]

This is on topic with a question I had recently and never got around to asking. I have white cabinets in my present house. I love the look, but they're cheap cabinets. I'd like to build some higher quality cabinets when I move, but I was wondering how you finish white cabinets. In other words, what kind of paint do you finish them with so that the finish doesn't destroy the effort you put into making nice cabinets?
Keith, probably best to try the Finishing forum for this question - its been asked a few times and a search will bring up several options

[Martin Wasner]

This is on topic with a question I had recently and never got around to asking. I have white cabinets in my present house. I love the look, but they're cheap cabinets. I'd like to build some higher quality cabinets when I move, but I was wondering how you finish white cabinets. In other words, what kind of paint do you finish them with so that the finish doesn't destroy the effort you put into making nice cabinets?

My finisher uses a tinted catalyzed lacquer for a base coat/primer, then does clear over the top. Durable and easy to repair.

[Cary Falk]

I am just finishing up a builtin and I plan on trying white laquer on it next week.

[lowell holmes]

I've had some baltic birch plywood that was good. It cost more than the cheap stuff. I've had some baltic birch that was absolutely useless. I use birch play wood when needed. I've never had issues with it. It costs more. My opinion is that you get what you pay for.

[Patrick Walsh]

I noticed this last time i made some doors.

So what MDF is the favored material for floating pannel? I know it is very stable i just cant stand the stuff. I suppose i could glue up some pannels. I have about 30 doors to build plus end pannels. It could get expensive for the client.

He is a friend somi want to give hima quality end product. On the other hand he does not needmto pay for anything over the top he will never appreciate. Im told the house will be sold in the next ten years.


And footballs. Even on 3B there's footballs on the back of the sheet. I don't know if there's a grade that is completely free of them or not.

[Martin Wasner]

I use ¼" mdf core with a maple veneer for flat panel doors. I tried switching over to poplar veneer'd mdf, but it was causing problems with the finish. I was hoping to save some time sanding, but wasn't worth it. So, we're back to maple. You'll get a better product for less money. I use a fair amount of Baltic Birch, it's just not the right application for that material.

[Jim Dwight]

I haven't made painted cabinet doors except for my old shop cabinets. Those had softwood frames and Luan panels. The luan was undersized so I caulked it. I painted them with Resisthane from Hood finishing and used their water based primer. Resisthane is available clear and tinted white or black. I used white. It is still semi-clear but with a coat of white primer under it, it covers fine.

I built plantation shutters for every bedroom window in our last house. I used softwood for the frame and all but the middle louver was machined MDF. It sucked up the Resisthane something fierce but the finish held up well. The middle louver had to hold a screw so I used poplar or softwood.

Kitchen cabinets get more usage than plantation shutters and are looked at more critically than shop cabinets. So maple may make sense. But I've had good results in the indicated projects with softwood or poplar.

[Patrick Walsh]

I assume i can purchase the MDF with thr veneer pre applied from any plywood dealer?


I use ¼" mdf core with a maple veneer for flat panel doors. I tried switching over to poplar veneer'd mdf, but it was causing problems with the finish. I was hoping to save some time sanding, but wasn't worth it. So, we're back to maple. You'll get a better product for less money. I use a fair amount of Baltic Birch, it's just not the right application for that material.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

I use ¼" mdf core with a maple veneer for flat panel doors. I tried switching over to poplar veneer'd mdf, but it was causing problems with the finish. I was hoping to save some time sanding, but wasn't worth it. So, we're back to maple. You'll get a better product for less money. I use a fair amount of Baltic Birch, it's just not the right application for that material.

I agree with Martin 100%. I also use a fair bit of BB ply in our business (usually finished clear) and tried some 6mm for panels on paint grade. I experienced some surface cracking/checking. I owe it to the hard post cat lacquer & primer not being able to expand and contract enough to remain free of these checks. They dont happen in clear. It could also be that film thickness in white is generally thicker than in clear. Plus the primer is applied heavier than I would a sealer under clear. Anyhow, it might not happen everywhere in the continent, but we have an excessive swing in %RH seasonally.

As far as the MDF core veneers, up here most of them are readily available but not a true 1/4". USually 5.5mm or 5.2mm. Since most of my door cutters cut a true 1/4" groove in the frame, I get the material pressed up to a true .25" - not a stock size here, but might be in the USA...

[Martin Wasner]

I assume i can purchase the MDF with thr veneer pre applied from any plywood dealer?

Correct. 4x8 sheets and all veneer'd.

[Martin Wasner]

As far as the MDF core veneers, up here most of them are readily available but not a true 1/4". USually 5.5mm or 5.2mm. Since most of my door cutters cut a true 1/4" groove in the frame, I get the material pressed up to a true .25" - not a stock size here, but might be in the USA...

It's usually a little thin here too. I've never actually thrown a caliper on it too see. My cutters are the same, ¼" groove. I pin engineered panels in so they're tight to the face.

That was a nice thing about the poplar, it was thicker.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

I noticed this last time i made some doors.

So what MDF is the favored material for floating pannel? I know it is very stable i just cant stand the stuff. I suppose i could glue up some pannels. I have about 30 doors to build plus end pannels. It could get expensive for the client.

He is a friend somi want to give hima quality end product. On the other hand he does not needmto pay for anything over the top he will never appreciate. Im told the house will be sold in the next ten years.



I used to have a bias against MDF. Until I forced myself to use it in certain instances where we were having issues. It is better business to keep an open mind, and try to use what materials work best - not what necessarily you like best. Just my opinion.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

It's usually a little thin here too. I've never actually thrown a caliper on it too see. My cutters are the same, ¼" groove. I pin engineered panels in so they're tight to the face.

That was a nice thing about the poplar, it was thicker.



It doesnt cost me any more to get a real 1/4" - but I have to order a minimum. Its worth it though, I really like a panel that fits VS sloppy.

[Jeff Duncan]

I noticed this last time i made some doors.

So what MDF is the favored material for floating pannel? I know it is very stable i just cant stand the stuff. I suppose i could glue up some pannels. I have about 30 doors to build plus end pannels. It could get expensive for the client.

He is a friend somi want to give hima quality end product. On the other hand he does not needmto pay for anything over the top he will never appreciate. Im told the house will be sold in the next ten years.

Quality is relative, some guys who work with wood think everything has to be made with solid wood or it's of lesser quality. Then when the painted solid wood panels on the doors they built shrink in the winter months, and the finish lines show up on the edges of the panels it's called character:rolleyes: Personally I prefer cabinet doors to look good and stay stable all year long and thus mdf or ply panels are a better choice for me. However ply has been far too unreliable in terms of thickness and so now I really only use mdf panels usually with maple veneered faces. If the panels are raised then I skip the veneer and just use plain old mdf. You have to keep in mind that the doors are being painted....it's not a small difference. As far as frame I only use soft maple, it's a bit less expensive and easier to work than hard maple and I use enough of it that it works out better for me.

good luck,
JeffD

[Martin Wasner]

Jeff, I buy a premium grade of soft maple for all my paint grade stuff. I pay maybe $.10 or .15 per board more than the paint grade stuff, but my waste and time spent defecting that waste out is significantly less. I'm going through at absolute most 10k bd/ft a year of soft maple, so I'm spending at most $1500 on the nicer material. Money well spent I think.

Food for thought. I saw you said you buy paint grade soft maple

[Martin Wasner]

It doesnt cost me any more to get a real 1/4" - but I have to order a minimum. Its worth it though, I really like a panel that fits VS sloppy.

I'll look into it. I'm usually ordering 40+ sheets at a time anyways. Once I'm in the new shop I can start buying by the unit. I just don't have the room right now.

[Patrick Walsh]

All good thoughts. And thanks for the tips.

I gotta pick up my carcass plywood tomorrow so ill ask the supplier about hard maple veneer'd MDF you are suggesting. All they sell is plywood so I would think they should have it.

The cabs will be shot with white pigmented conversion Varnish. I only mention this as some talk about laquer and BB was happening.

The styles and rails are all beaded thus requiring i jack miter and M&T everything together vrs cope and stick. If the ply is undersized i could just have a specific groover made up couldnt i? On the other hand undersized is much more easy for assembly. Not sure if pinning is a great idea with a delicate bead though..

[Martin Wasner]

You have to put the pins in at a pretty good angle. I do it on every profile I do.

[David Huston]

Last built in I did for our house I used beech. Local cabinet maker I got it from.said that is what he was using for paint grade work. Think I paid around 4-5 buck a BD ft. Sands very nicely. I put my face frames together with pocket screws and it seems to hold a screw better than poplar. I printed with BIN primer and then spray the finish coats. Have used Target EM6500 and ML Campbell aqualente. Like both of them.

[Justin Ludwig]

The paint grade maple I buy is FAS, but the color variation is why it's deemed PG. We rarely get knots in that stock. As for the 1/4 veneered MDF, I have a choice of A1 down to a D3. The D3 has a TON of dark coloration, but it's great for painting or rustic look and it $10-20 sheet less.

Any voids can be filled with bondo and easily sanded, but the less voids the better. Time is money.

[Jaromir Svoboda]

Should I glue panels or use space balls?

[Martin Wasner]

No glue on the panels. Pins or space balls

[Warren Lake]

I pin them in the center, 3/8" back cut panel in whatever material makes a better feeling door and no issues with wandering 1/4" tolerances. you make it whatever thickness you need. Still not an MDF fan but see the reasons why other than in a vanity or a kitchen if you have a leak MDF swells. I use 1/4" naughahyde padding on the panel outsides on the style side just cut in strips, compresses nicer and more than space balls, simple can cut up a ton at once. panel shinkage in the past people prefinished, it wasnt an issue between summer and winter the finish was already there when it moved. Some blow in their stains put it on then compressed air blow in thats fine but you wont get your lacquer in there. Get its all more work, better work more work.