New Powermatic 3hp PM2000 or 1997 5hp 66?

[Alex Snyder]

I would say I'm torn on this decision, but "ripped" might be the better pun :)

So, a barely used 1997 Powermatic 5hp 1ph 66 has come to my attention. I'm enamored with the idea of going for the older all-America thunder of the 66 over buying a new PM2000 with 3 horses. But I'm split over the lack of a riving knife on the old 66.... this thread helps that argument though: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?128978-Riving-Knife-Am-I-missing-something

I'm intentionally not stating price to keep the discussion more about the merits of the two saws. And please please please don't bring up SawStop.

[Darcy Warner]

I would choose the 66.

If I ever need a TS in a pinch, be the first one I would look for.

[Bradley Gray]

I have a somewhat older 66 that is a pleasure to use. Very fast set ups.

Mine is 3hp/3ph and has enough power but if I had been given a choice 5hp would be better.

I use a splitter installed past the blade in a zero clearance insert whenever possible.

[Mike Kees]

Alex I have no personal experience with powermatic saws but would lean towards the older 66 5 h.p. As for the issue of no riving knife ,check out options for aftermarket guards like a shark guard. Good luck in your decision, mike.

[Mark Carlson]

If the 66 is in good condition and the price is right, I'd get that given the two choices. Its a close call for me because I'd want the riving knife and the other safety feature on the saw we cant mention:).

[Paul McGaha]

I'm kind of mixed but I think I'd pick the 66.

PHM

[Don Jarvie]

Basically the saws are the same. The insides are setup the same so the extra hp is worth it. As long as everything is the same, fence, extension table, etc you should be able to get the 66 much cheaper.

[Mike Manning]

I'd also vote for the PM 66 if prices were similar. A lot of saw.

[Van Huskey]

Technically the PM66 is a smaller saw having a smaller table but it is a very good saw. I replaced my 66 with a 2000 right after the 2000 came out primarily for the riving knife and I haven't regretted it. IME the 66 vs the 2000 is a lateral move with the riving knife advantage going to the 2000, now the PM72/74 is a different story and is a honest step up.

I personally see the 66 as the budget approach to getting a very good cabinet saw but I honestly can't think of a single thing I liked better about the PM66s I had over my 2000 except the cast iron extension wing (it is rare to find them) and and there are several things I prefer about the 2000 the biggest of which is the riving knife. One other thing about the PM66s they weren't all built to the same standard so year and paint color have an impact on desirability.

[John K Jordan]

So, a barely used 1997 Powermatic 5hp 1ph 66 has come to my attention. I'm enamored with the idea of going for the older all-America thunder of the 66 over buying a new PM2000 with 3 horses. But I'm split over the lack of a riving knife on the old 66....


I had the same question when buying my saw. For me it was between a new PM66 with an established reputation, and the just released PM2000 with a lot of unknowns. I picked the PM66 and I've been very happy with it. The riving knife would be good but I use splitters. I also attached a used cast iron Robland sliding table to mine. Very handy.

JKJ

[Martin Wasner]

One other thing about the PM66s they weren't all built to the same standard so year and paint color have an impact on desirability.

This is the most important thing when buying a 66. They aren't all the same.

I have one I bought new in 2004. It's a piece of crap.

I have another one I bought used that is a 1998 model I bought in 2010, it a decent specimen of a 66.

I personally would take the 66 over the 2000

[Rich Riddle]

I own a Powermatic 66 after having many others including Delta models. It surpasses all other cabinet saws I owned. You won't be disappointed.

[Greg Parrish]

I'd take the PM66 also. :) Mine is a 1972 model.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?243550-My-garage-workshop&p=2562858#post2562858

[Bill Adamsen]

There is a good thread in this forum (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?70761-Splitter-vs-Riving-Knife) about the difference between splitter and riving knife.

I had not used one until recently when I setup the splitter/riving knife on my euro slider. I'm actually amazed and impressed with the safety factor. More about keeping the hand away from the back of the blade during solid wood ripping than kickback, which (knock on wood) I haven't had happen in 30+ years. Obviously there are situations where the knife doesn't work.

That said, the PM66 has well documented challenges with mounting a splitter. Whereas the PM2000 has a variety of knives available. I guess to some extent it depends what the saw is going to be used for. I have a Unisaw dedicated to rabbets, dadoes, finger joints and cuts of such ilk. The knife wouldn't be missed. As others have mentioned, the older PM66 is a very fine piece of equipment (I have coveted often) and I'd probably go that route.

[Cary Falk]

I don't own either PMs . I sold a vintage Uni and bought a new saw with a riving knife. I have never regretted that decision.

[John Lankers]

Alex, If I read your post correctly it seems you prefer the used PM 66 over a new PM 2000 and your only concern is with the riving knife. It is not difficult to make a bunch of ZCI's and glue in a 1/8" piece of plywood as replacement for the factory splitter, then install the new insert and raise the blade to the desired height cutting into the newly glued in plywood splitter, when you make 2 or 3 of them for different blade heights you'll be covered. Swapping inserts is a matter of seconds, you could even make one that allows for non through cuts. It would be somewhat trickier to make inserts for beveled cuts but not impossible. Other than that get or build a blade guard with dust collection hookup.

[Alex Snyder]

It looks like it is 10 votes for the 66 and 1 vote for the 2000. Power, nostalgia, USA-made, Baldor, are a few things probably fueling the vote.

I really appreciate the feedback and advice everyone. If I go with the 66, making some zero clearance inserts + splitter is definitely the plan, and I will certainly be using the splitter that comes with the saw out of the gate. After a few days of use I'll make a decision on the Shark Guard. On my current Powermatic I've found all the included accessories to be excellent, but those might be different with something 20 years old.

[Frank Drew]

I'd give more weight to the extra h.p than to the riving knife, especially if you'll be cutting some thick stock from time to time.

My first saw was a 5 h.p 3ph Powermatic 68; I'd never heard of a riving (or splitting) knife at the time so didn't miss it, but I really appreciated the power.

[Mark Carlson]

I wouldn't say no to a 5hp saw but I've never had any problems with a 3hp motor cutting anything. Is 5hp something needed for a 12in saw or 12/4 stock? Am I missing something?


I'd give more weight to the extra h.p than to the riving knife, especially if you'll be cutting some thick stock from time to time.

My first saw was a 5 h.p 3ph Powermatic 68; I'd never heard of a riving (or splitting) knife at the time so didn't miss it, but I really appreciated the power.

[Martin Wasner]

I've never used a tablesaw with too much power. I think 5hp is the minimum. Less power works, but if you're aggressive with gnarly material and a less than sharp blade, a saw bogging down is asking for trouble. HP isn't the magic cure either, it's just nice to have some in reserve.

[ken carroll]

I've had two pm66s in my time, both 5hp 3ph, one built in the 80s and one in the 70s. I thought the build quality on both was quite average. For example, terrible stick welding holding the base to the steel flange upon which the table mounts. One of the welds was 3" long and only the first inch actually hit the base and the flange, both!
I also have something against handwheels which are held on by a set screw onto a flat. No keyway. Even the Uni has a proper keyway and key.

Those things said, there's nothing wrong with the performance of a PM66. I don't think the extra 2hp really means much in the real world though, I never felt that the 5hp PM66 had more power than my old Griz 1023 with Chicom 3hp motor. Strange but true....... (Yes, I did fit new cogged belts on the 66, and yes, the pm66 was powered by a proper 10hp RPC, not a marginal static phase con)

How's the welding on the PM2000? Do the handwheels have keyways?

[Van Huskey]

How's the welding on the PM2000? Do the handwheels have keyways?

Can't comment on the welding, haven't explored the inside that much, but it is still in one piece...

No keys, just screws.

[Eric Commarato]

66....dumb easy decision

[Tony Joyce]

I have a somewhat older 66 that is a pleasure to use. Very fast set ups.

Mine is 3hp/3ph and has enough power but if I had been given a choice 5hp would be better.


If the motor ever burns out you can have the 3HP rewound to a 5HP.

After I burned mine up the second time the electric motor guy asked if I wanted to up the HP. 5HP was the max for the housing.

Tony

Actually I think mine was 3HP single phase and he made it 5HP three phase.

[Greg Parrish]

My 66 has a us made Leeson 3hp in it and I find it plenty of power so far. Same motor that is on my Oneida v3000. 5 may be better but would take a little larger circuit too.

[Brodie Brickey]

If cutting on a 12 or 14" blade, I'd recommend a 5 HP motor. I've ripped 8/4 beech and ash on a 2 hp Delta and it can be done, but it becomes possible to bog the saw with a 40 tooth blade. When I rip something that thick I shift to a 24 tooth and things get much better. 3 HP is kind of the sweet spot for home woodworking. If the saw was on all day and you were just ripping in a production environment, you would probably want a 5 HP motor. Clear the chips, power through, no bogging.

"More power" - Tim 'the toolman' Taylor


I wouldn't say no to a 5hp saw but I've never had any problems with a 3hp motor cutting anything. Is 5hp something needed for a 12in saw or 12/4 stock? Am I missing something?

[Alex Snyder]

I have thoroughly enjoyed watching this thread and will continue to think about an all-American 66 in my shop, but....

The wife got involved. She is putting the kibosh of getting a "less safe" saw and instead wants me to pick up the safest saw within reason. She also okay'd a MUCH larger budget for this purchase, so she ain't all that bad ;)

So, I'm probably going to pull the trigger on something with Felder USA this week. Yes, I know this is a complete and total departure from where things started originally. Thanks for all the responses and I'm sure someone else will have the PM2000 vs 66 dilemma again.

[John Lankers]

Congratulations, now that is a big step in the right direction for safety - 2 thumbs up. What model have you laid your eyes on?

[Alex Snyder]

Congratulations, now that is a big step in the right direction for safety - 2 thumbs up. What model have you laid your eyes on?

I found a used Hammer K3 with just about every possible accessory/option on it. We're working out the details on delivery, but if all goes well I'll make the 11 hour round trip to pick it up next week.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

You'll Never Look Back.

[John Lankers]

Good for you and if you're lucky the cast iron top has an opening for a shaper spjndle, you could install a router in the opening and have a cast iron router table with sliding table for next to nothing as a bonus.