Mortiser

[Casey Carr]

Looking at a mortiser. Some of you probably remember me whining about cutting mortises in hard maple. I'm back on that and need to get it done. I see woodcraft has a rikon mortiser on sale for $300. I was previously looking at the powermatic bench top model, but it's closer to $500. Anyone have either of these and is there anything I need to be aware of if buying it?

Back to the garage to whack on some more wood.

[Frederick Skelly]

I went through this search extensively just over a year ago. I looked at ALL of them, including Rikon. I was drawn to the Rikon because of the features, price and the fact that I have one of their bandsaws and Im quite satisfied with it.

In the end, I bought the Powermatic for two reasons. First, I felt like a mortiser is one of those tools that by its nature gets alot of stress - youre pulling on a lever cutting a square hole. The PM seemed to be the heaviest duty tool of all the benchtops I looked at. Second, every review I read in magazines, on chat rooms and on seller sites praised the PM. So I saved up another $200 and bought one. (Got an excellent deal from Jeannie at Tools Plus, thanks to one of the guys here!) I havent regretted it a bit - I smile every time I see or use that machine. Well worth the money. Wish I could swing more PM tools. Sigh.

The Rikon and the JET were #2 and #3 on my list. (Edit: This ranking tells you something because I really like JET tools. The Rikon was just a better all around value in my estimation.)

Whatever you buy, be sure to tune up the chisels - flatten and polish them as you would a bench chisel or a plane iron. It significantly improves their performance. (Edit: I bought PM chisels too.)

Good luck Casey. Let us know what you decide.

Fred

[Casey Carr]

Thanks Fred, that's the information I was looking for. Looks like it'll be the powermatic.

[C Scott McDonald]

I have one from General and its ok. If I buy another it woulf be a floor standing model that the work clamps to the table. While my table top one gets the job done its a fight to the bitter end. If trying to do a large mortise in Hard maple a table top is going to be a fight at best.

[John TenEyck]

Use a router. You probably already own one. Use a template or edge guide depending upon the application.

John

[Chris Fournier]

[QUOTE=John TenEyck;2643642]Use a router. You probably already own one. Use a template or edge guide depending upon the application.

John[/QUOTE I agree with what John is saying. I have cut hundreds of really nice mortises with my routers. I have a slot mortiser which pretty much serves this task in my shop now but given a funky set up I'll still go to my router and a custom jig.

[Rich Riddle]

I own the Powermatic and love it. Jet has a 15% sale going on a couple more days if that makes more sense.

[Charles Lent]

A router with a spiral up cut bit will make more accurate mortises and do it much easier and more accurately in any wood than a square chisel mortise machine. I switched to doing mortises with a router like John suggested and using floating tenons made with my planer and table saw to fit them. This worked very well for me and it was a considerable step up from my square chisel mortise machine approach that I had been using.

Then I went another step further up and now use a Leigh FMT Pro jig and my router to make both the mortise and matching tenon with the same jig setup. The result is mortises and tenons that fit together perfectly every time with no manual fine tuning needed after the cuts, even in very hard woods like maple. I can now make them faster than I ever could with my old square chisel mortiser and table saw and they always fit together perfectly. If you are going to spend the big money for a Powermatic square chisel mortise machine, going to an FMT jig should be a "no brainer" as far as $ investment is concerned. You don't need square corner mortises and tenons for strength, but if the Old World square shape is critical for a certain "thru mortise" Greene and Greene type design, there is a square template available for the FMT to allow making square tenons, and you can chisel cut the rounded matching mortises square to fit them by hand for the few that you might want for that certain unique project. The strength of a mortise and tenon comes from the glued together sides of the mortise and it's matching tenon and not from the end surfaces of the mortise and the tenon, so it makes no difference whether they are round or square ended. Most mortises and tenons are never even seen after project assembly anyway. The FMT jig has a single adjustment that lets you fine tune the joint for the tightness of fit between the mortise and it's matching tenon. Once you set it for the tightness of fit that you want, every joint made after that fits together with that same tightness. It's so precise that you can make a pop gun sound when you pull the tenon back out of the mortise during a dry fit, or make the fit a few thousandths looser so that there is room for the glue, and this fit is repeatable to less than .001". Do yourself a favor and at least look into the FMT jigs or at least try making router mortises like John suggests above and making floating tenons to fit them before spending the money on a square chisel mortiser and tenon cutter for your table saw. Routing mortises is fast and easy to do if you have a router, an up cut bit and an edge guide. You probably won't even need to invest in anything new to give it a try.

Charley

[Warren Lake]

havent given much time to the router for mortises and even the horizontal mortiser still like the chisel. Before I got a mortise machine I used the drill press with the chisel attachment and it worked pretty well. My only concern on that is its probably hard on the drill press doing hard maple and some other woods.

[Ben Rivel]

Or.... Wait and save up for that Domino XL ;)

[Dick Mahany]

I used a Shop Fox model with the dual column on the swivel base and it worked great. The Japanese chisels from Grizzly made a significant difference and yielded very clean mortises in hardwood. I was making a lot of mission style tables that used many square spindles that needed to be mortised into slats and rails. The mortiser was critical in eliminating rotation of the closely spaced spindles, and the resulting glue ups of the many parts went quickly as a result. I also used it for large through mortises where pegs of contrasting woods were used and needed perfectly square corners and my router would have required a LOT of hand work to clean up the corners.

I agree that often a router can be used and have done many mortises that way with excellent results, however if square corners are required for alignment of parts, or as a visible enhancement, then a mortiser is really hard to beat. Like so many tools, it is a one-trick machine and so I sold it after a few years when I was finished with that furniture project and it was just taking up space.

[Darcy Warner]

Router is my last choice, but there is a Festo chain mortiser, wysong 284 and a Maka to choose from first.

Plus I hate making jigs. And the cool one for my festool router is too much money.

I really don't know much about bench top models, I know that it's still a fair amount of effort even with a big manual free standing machine.

[peter gagliardi]

A router with a spiral up cut bit will make more accurate mortises and do it much easier and more accurately in any wood than a square chisel mortise machine.



Charley

You are kidding right? There have probably been millions upon millions of mortises cut with a hollow chisel mortiser, or chain mortiser for that matter.
I would dare say the bulk of factory and woodshop work out there uses them.
To make a statement that a router is faster, easier, and more accurate is quite a stretch. Accuracy is inherent to initial machining, fine tuning, and setup with these. They are dependent on the precision and accuracy of the user.
They will and do make accurate joinery at a speed and ease that a router could only hope for. When I started in business, I had to use a router and make a jig once for some mortises. ONCE!
Never again if I have options like a real dedicated machine.
In my experience, a router is the next slowest thing to hand chopping.
With chain and chisel machines, there is generally no vibration. If it is 1/2" it makes 1/2", but with a router, you get vibration and chatter causing inaccuracy that can easily affect and ruin normal glue joint tolerances.
If there were a race to do 100 mortises of a given size in any specie of wood, between a chain, or chisel mortiser and a router with any jig, the router would be the last place I would place a bet.

[paul cottingham]

I have a midrange general (75 050 without the tilt basically) that does everything I ask of it, especially after I bought good (LV) chisels for it. I basically only cut 1/4" or 5/16" mortises anyways. So I only need one good chisel.

[Ole Anderson]

If I really wanted a dedicated mortiser, it would be a floor mount version. That being said, I cut a bunch of 5/8" mortises in white oak with a Delta adapter on my Craftsman drill press, and will continue to go that route.

[John TenEyck]

You are kidding right? There have probably been millions upon millions of mortises cut with a hollow chisel mortiser, or chain mortiser for that matter.
I would dare say the bulk of factory and woodshop work out there uses them.
To make a statement that a router is faster, easier, and more accurate is quite a stretch. Accuracy is inherent to initial machining, fine tuning, and setup with these. They are dependent on the precision and accuracy of the user.
They will and do make accurate joinery at a speed and ease that a router could only hope for. When I started in business, I had to use a router and make a jig once for some mortises. ONCE!
Never again if I have options like a real dedicated machine.
In my experience, a router is the next slowest thing to hand chopping.
With chain and chisel machines, there is generally no vibration. If it is 1/2" it makes 1/2", but with a router, you get vibration and chatter causing inaccuracy that can easily affect and ruin normal glue joint tolerances.
If there were a race to do 100 mortises of a given size in any specie of wood, between a chain, or chisel mortiser and a router with any jig, the router would be the last place I would place a bet.

My horizontal router mortiser is faster than any benchtop mortiser ever thought of being. And the resultant mortises are clean and straight, with no chisel work required. How many hobbiests have a chain mortiser? And that only cuts the mortise. You still have to cut and adjust the matching tenon to fit that less than perfect mortise. I built one of my machines for a pro woodworker. He uses it exclusively now for cutting face frame mortises, and he makes a lot of kitchen cabinets. His floor mortiser is used only for really large mortises.

If you are getting vibration using a router you aren't using the right bit or you aren't using the correct technique.

Think about all the things now being cut with CNC machines. At their heart they are just routers.

John

[Casey Carr]

I appreciate all the comments! I can see the argument for the router setup, but I can also see the worry about chatter. I know how mills and CNC machines work, have even run a conventional mill a bit. 1.75" through hard maple I can see chatter becoming a problem, although probably less than what I have in my hand cut mortises I've done so far. 3/8" diameter bit 1.75" long, I'll have to look and see if there even is such a beast.

I was really hoping this would be a clear cut answer as it's too late to change to a floating tenon on this project, but I don't want this thing to turn into a paperweight if I don't end up using it much. I do like the Greene and Greene so that might help in the decision to stick with the mortiser. I'll have to check out the fmt option that can square corners.

Thanks again, I always end up spending more money than planned after coming here.

[Van Huskey]

John[/QUOTE]

If speed is the primary concern then the Domino is probably the fastest mortise and tenon maker out there and the advantage increases the larger the work piece, I had a JDS Multi-router for years and sold it after it only collected dust when the Domino came into my shop.

This is all irrelevant since the OP has pointed out he wants to use traditional square tenons. To that the PM is the best bench top mortiser and their new tenoning jig is also in a class by itself though also pricey. I would say the OP may want to look at the floor standing Baleigh versions. A friend just got the tilting head version and it is very nice for the price and they make a non-tilting version for about $800 the clamping and table are excellent and it has a 1hp motor.

[Jim Andrew]

I bought the G0540 from Grizzly, it is a slot mortiser. Works great for me. I put a larger wood table on it, and put pencil marks on the wood table to aid in changing from one part to another. I use high speed steel milling cutters also from Grizzly. Take about 1/4" per swipe.

[Bill Adamsen]

I use both the Domino and the Mortiser. Getting the Domino actually increased my respect for the mortiser, which i use all the time and find extremely versatile. The Yates (shown) has a fabulous splined shaft that allows precise and firm cutting of mortises.

The shop is never that clean.

[Rick Fisher]

love the Yates mortiser..

Jealous ..

[John TenEyck]

There are several things my horizontal router mortiser can do that a Domino will never do. Just the ability to use something other than a straight bit is huge. Dovetails bits, vertical panel raising bits; can't use those in a Domino. Even with just a straight bit, I can make dados and rabbets on the edge of stock; try that with a Domino. The horizontal router mortiser can also cut integral tenons; something else the Domino can't do. And you can build one for less than $100 or buy one from me for a very fair price, no where near the price of that non-tilting Baleigh, or the even more expensive Domino. And my machine tilts.

If you want to make square mortises you can still use the horizontal router mortiser, so it's not irrelevant to the OP. You can square the ends with a chisel. It's not a big deal, nor hard to do. I sometimes use a mortising chisel for that task; I have no other use for them. What little time that takes to do is more than compensated for by the perfect, smooth sided mortises that require no cleanup.

John

[mreza Salav]

I had a General Int. tilting head (sold it), have used routers with jigs (actually is very accurate, fast and gives very clean mortises), have had both Domino's (500 and the XL). Fastests is Domino. It is not a replacement for a large floor standing (like the one shown above) but it covers 99% of my needs.

[John TenEyck]

I appreciate all the comments! I can see the argument for the router setup, but I can also see the worry about chatter. I know how mills and CNC machines work, have even run a conventional mill a bit. 1.75" through hard maple I can see chatter becoming a problem, although probably less than what I have in my hand cut mortises I've done so far. 3/8" diameter bit 1.75" long, I'll have to look and see if there even is such a beast.

I was really hoping this would be a clear cut answer as it's too late to change to a floating tenon on this project, but I don't want this thing to turn into a paperweight if I don't end up using it much. I do like the Greene and Greene so that might help in the decision to stick with the mortiser. I'll have to check out the fmt option that can square corners.

Thanks again, I always end up spending more money than planned after coming here.


You won't get chatter if you take small see-saw cuts with a router. Here's a 5/8" wide by 2-3/4" deep mortise I cut with a spiral end mill in my slot mortiser, and this thing is crude compared to my horizontal router mortiser:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ly73t3GIOYVX6gwjn9QsYj7CrJmIj7pkZBgOHof7lLm8RVeRBL zus_3xcD7-AzVmwvMqvDCflOk06Xp8_4yrB4YvlCRhdytYgYw4qcAGokEN-KjRvT_nAZ8EZu_euIs1KibHa2l2tMHbmkkW0aOGWqmcsjEM9Jz 4-c34N0VgOd5Mj3IqqlP8TA21daTeFTGl4Ynxah_yeEmpVugzyUv nv4f2_dm8vv14mDblZbZF9PhNYj4lt1ktGa2i6JdWTQnlb29k_ jJQ9w86EorAmrPM6UlXFAE7OGpXzuSLiOp4l7uATL-S_M5GR3GOoSQw49OPAHUOK2KQ5POYayhIDg9J2_KyqmetkvV6E E15eXBrIp7qfxHxG17Sqt626FveyIgL6tuq0GZeuNSpsGz5PhD GA6hn7mBLzlR5Yf5-BH1vCDKndnj-Ewc5Q0oO1xnmODgcdG1-72xBghcacMLsHkNqpR-pCoHWUO_Yfv3rQdyi4RmtaYXvsgpdavY5UPMau0DwZEXmifpY2 M8V2Exl0rmjQ92oSSP3JUkjXeeIIGSFzpw1d-TqJaSUT_yeoTUdMWd2DMug3I4PhGGN0n5EDSQWpWHqPk6zmDN0 f1H95nfCKElkvc3szP8frvoMWPNWIOPYtqfeawrTs2fz0rQ2lA VXd_kfr5Hr39tTlbytNbPni54=w838-h628-no

I'd like to see some comparative photos from those who favor a chisel or chain mortiser.

John

[Brian Holcombe]

By hand;

https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/img_5279.jpg
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/img_5280.jpg
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/img_5273.jpg
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/img_5270.jpg
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/img_5283.jpg
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/img_5288.jpg

[Brian Holcombe]

Still, by hand.

https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/img_4926.jpg
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/img_4797.jpg
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/0fedb751-436d-488d-9ea4-411c9dd2b8ed_zpskoimyzxr.jpg
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/c807b51d-f668-486c-8c58-c32605f29c53_zpszu9tbqzi.jpg

And some tenons, also by hand.

https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/img_4537.jpg

[Casey Carr]

There are several things my horizontal router mortiser can do that a Domino will never do. Just the ability to use something other than a straight bit is huge. Dovetails bits, vertical panel raising bits; can't use those in a Domino. Even with just a straight bit, I can make dados and rabbets on the edge of stock; try that with a Domino. The horizontal router mortiser can also cut integral tenons; something else the Domino can't do. And you can build one for less than $100 or buy one from me for a very fair price, no where near the price of that non-tilting Baleigh, or the even more expensive Domino. And my machine tilts.

If you want to make square mortises you can still use the horizontal router mortiser, so it's not irrelevant to the OP. You can square the ends with a chisel. It's not a big deal, nor hard to do. I sometimes use a mortising chisel for that task; I have no other use for them. What little time that takes to do is more than compensated for by the perfect, smooth sided mortises that require no cleanup.

John

Can you share pics of your horizontal jig John? I'm curious anyways. And point me in the right direction as far as a router bit that will go that deep? I know you don't do that deep of a cut in one pass, most of what I was seeing was 1.25" depth of cut.

[Bill Adamsen]

Still, by hand.

Brian ... I always love seeing when you've posted because I just know I'm going to love the post. What great ideas and execution!

John ... took up the challenge. Attached photo shows a similar cut. Took longer to scribe the ends (2-3/4" long, 1-7/8" deep) then to setup and cut. Literally, it took about half a minute to verify setup and cut. This was extremely hard maple from a door project, didn't measure but I think 28mm thick (Blum TDH spec'd up to 30mm) and that mortise chisel is a 10mm. I didn't have something handy that would allow replicating the depth of your cut, so I made it longer. The sides aren't as clean but in my mind there are still a number of advantages ... not the least of which is the machine is setup, maintained and working.

[Chris Fournier]

Chatter when using a router is a symptom of operator error! Reduce the feed speed, depth of cut etc. to get a process that is chatter free. I bore the ends of the mortise to full depth by peck drilling, then I aim for a chatter free amount of material to removed in each pass. I tend not to climb cut.

[Mike Henderson]

For making mortises, it's hard to beat a horizontal slot mortiser. To me, the Domino is a portable horizontal slot mortiser.

A horizontal slot mortiser makes perfect mortises, and it's quick, easy to use, and very accurate.

Mike

[Charles Lent]

Go here https://www.leighjigs.com/fmt_overview.php and watch the videos. Leigh products do everything that they say they will, and very precisely.

Charley

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian ... I always love seeing when you've posted because I just know I'm going to love the post. What great ideas and execution!

John ... took up the challenge. Attached photo shows a similar cut. Took longer to scribe the ends (2-3/4" long, 1-7/8" deep) then to setup and cut. Literally, it took about half a minute to verify setup and cut. This was extremely hard maple from a door project, didn't measure but I think 28mm thick (Blum TDH spec'd up to 30mm) and that mortise chisel is a 10mm. I didn't have something handy that would allow replicating the depth of your cut, so I made it longer. The sides aren't as clean but in my mind there are still a number of advantages ... not the least of which is the machine is setup, maintained and working.

Thanks Bill! The mortise that you show is nicely cut! If I were not working by hand it would be by hollow chisel mortiser, the mortise sidewalls need not be smooth in order to produce an excellent joint, but one with square corners is appealing to me both for practical reasons. Through tenons only appeal to me when they're square/rectangular (outside of chair making) and square mortises offer more glue surface with side grain/side grain than round mortises.

[Brian W Smith]

Made do with DP based method alongside hand done for 30+ years.Found a 40's Wallace floor model for a very reasonable $$.Spent an afternoon wiping/cleaning accumulated chips and dust off.Little squirt of mobile 1 here and there,plugged it in and been smiling ever since.Nice medium sized footprint.Round base model that can be moved by one person.

Over time;made a few fixture plates for reoccurring jobs,along with adj air assist.

[mreza Salav]

For making mortises, it's hard to beat a horizontal slot mortiser. To me, the Domino is a portable horizontal slot mortiser.

A horizontal slot mortiser makes perfect mortises, and it's quick, easy to use, and very accurate.

Mike

+1. Completely agree.

[John TenEyck]

Can you share pics of your horizontal jig John? I'm curious anyways. And point me in the right direction as far as a router bit that will go that deep? I know you don't do that deep of a cut in one pass, most of what I was seeing was 1.25" depth of cut.

Sure, here's a link to my horizontal router mortiser: https://sites.google.com/site/jteneyckwoodworker/current-projects/horizontal-router-mortiser You have to use spiral upcut bits if you want to cut smooth mortises, especially deep ones. You can buy router bits that will allow you to cut about 1.5" deep, maybe a little more. To go deeper I use 2 or 3 flute center cutting end mills, which is what I used to cut that 2-3/4" deep one in the photo. You can buy them at McMaster Carr and many other places. You can get 1/2" diameter ones with 3" depth of cut, or more, and 1/4" ones that will go 1-3/4" deep.

The key to routing mortises is to take small see-saw bites. Chatter is a sure sign of poor technique.

I find it funny how many folks are whetted to the technique they use as the best way, and will advocate for it no matter what. I didn't start out making mortises using a router; I got there after trying lots of other ways and being frustrated by how slow it was, or how rough the mortises were, or how poor the accuracy was, or how much custom fitting I had to do to get the tenon to fit the mortise. The router (and/or slot mortiser) was the answer for me. All those problems were eliminated.

This is my newest rendition of my machine:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2Qgfw4bT_4uoist61oWQw-L61QtJghnAFraWPa2bARP2-tsML4z_gsgfL2DYTA7bMW-AvahCs1sbH7L2sSBzj9fBgbpeeCi6kc9mQLWx6X0ABFMLGEu5p mdNEJHYxPpHqpNXlSTI0R2Pqfk0iA5HqYxj5BeywayMF0-Cx5Ms-WjkCuq1B9VOxT0P81rbt87W_GV3HxgYu1Acil3SHPw0lFKc2wb Zq59NIF5Lzd8TbzobvFJtXubSSUR3XGH_36jXs73Uy1aaQ-jlQgaQj8qmFT-e6_wdsTt32iviYByZDg2n2AjYYRb7vW_9D0uxflwVwEZXHxt2s fnPGFSoV2DXaB5itxlkH-QynphydpN-wHJOSBQ1V2Ndl9Qflnf1S2tKMJ4ZRC7VZ76OUGOmeWG211_vzR 5qOzPvQ8SMDpEs_kJpcU3bofaHPUN7q3A4paNa9SPwHHdD37-aaIJf7DpgcNLQHT0z0CGoCWAU8-uZeud7maqmYSAZYL4IfIo4Ho6W7pFb8twRNKlXO2ayfIlpDsII fhGVvnaym8vlBeekt3jZBurk1wEMaDyuZCCbFi3UxBDNYKvqWK fPdobcZZ5z9krkQfPwhCWu58xc6OezO37a9mM7uD2ALMPz8xq6 R7UGI0Klqz7n-DwizlI-AxQ1ojCKpTRV6Lx_Ig0FAIkrMkw=w640-h480-no

The tilting X-table opens up a whole new level of capability.

John

[Jim Dwight]

I've used a plunge router (PC 690 mostly) with a spiral up-cut bit to make mortises. I will still do it for certain projects. I don't really enjoy using routers that much, however. They scream and it takes awhile to get things set up and start making sawdust. I prefer to use my Jet bench top mortise. I would not argue it is better than others, I have not used others, but it works. The only thing I really don't like is on the first cut, it is really hard to get the chisel back out. Backing off several times as you cut helps. Waxing the chisel helps (but I generally don't because I think it can affect glueup). Clamping the work to the table helps and is generally what I do. Especially with the 1/2 chisel (it's biggest) it can still be a struggle. But once that first cut is made, the rest are easy. The sides of the mortise are not as pretty as with a router but it doesn't seem to affect strength at all. Set up time is much less than a router, for me. And the noise level is much more pleasant.

[Casey Carr]

Biggest mortise the powermatic will handle is 3/4"? Not having much luck seeing it in their specs. Fixing to read through the manual.

The baileigh intrigues me. Up to 1" mortise. That's huge! Never heard of the brand, but I hadn't heard of north field before I bought my jointer. Is baileigh decent quality, or even better than powermatic?

I think the fmt is out, more than double what the powermatic is cost wise. Or is that because the powermatic is on sale? It's around $500 on amazon, but I don't know for how much longer if it is.

And thanks John. Looks like you have a couple of them laying around, lol! I may still take you up on your offer, even if I do get a true mortiser. What would you want for one?

[John Sincerbeaux]

I bought my JDS Multi Router ten years ago. It is not only an incredible joinery machine but it can be used for many many other uses that no other "mortiser" could ever do. With three axis's the applications are only limited by your imagination.
For production runs on several identical mortises, the MR with pneumatic clamps can't be beat.

[Van Huskey]

Biggest mortise the powermatic will handle is 3/4"? Not having much luck seeing it in their specs. Fixing to read through the manual.

The baileigh intrigues me. Up to 1" mortise. That's huge! Never heard of the brand, but I hadn't heard of north field before I bought my jointer. Is baileigh decent quality, or even better than powermatic?

...

Or is that because the powermatic is on sale? It's around $500 on amazon, but I don't know for how much longer if it is.



The PM 701 goes up to 3/4" in capacity.

Baleigh is very common Asian quality, nothing special but solid, fit and finish is a step below Powermatic but I was impressed with the mortiser in person, at least for the money.

The PM 701's "normal" street price just under $490 shipped and you can find it at that price all the time except when it is on 10% off sale which happens 2-3 times a year. IIRC Elite Metal Tools has the best prices on the Baleigh, note a metal tool company carries them since Baleigh was a metal machine company before going into woodworking machines.

[Van Huskey]

I bought my JDS Multi Router ten years ago. It is not only an incredible joinery machine but it can be used for many many other uses that no other "mortiser" could ever do. With three axis's the applications are only limited by your imagination.
For production runs on several identical mortises, the MR with pneumatic clamps can't be beat.

I loved my Multi-Router when I first got it (I was making a lot of chairs at the time) and used all its capabilities. Then I got a Leigh jig and it was quicker, easier and did more in the way of box and dovetail joints. Then I got a Domino and it was quicker and easier for loose tenons. Then my work needed fewer and fewer round and angled tenons and it just got used less and less until I sold it and used the $2k I got out of it for other things. If you need some of the difficult tenons it can make it is THE machine and does a LOT of other stuff but all the other stuff can be done quicker and easier unless it is a fairly large production run of say loose tenons. There are days I miss it but unless I start doing a lot of chairs again I doubt I will ever buy another one. It is also a VERY well designed and built machine.

[peter gagliardi]

I have had a pro shop for about the last 20-25 years.
I have never needed, or wanted to make a 3/4" or bigger mortise.
Ever.
Unless you are doing true timberframing type work with 1 1/2" and 2" mortises being the standard, but then that is always green wood, very large timber, and done with a drill, mallet and chisel.
Even thick doors 2 1/4" - 3" are done with dual 1/2" mortises, leading to a much stronger joint than only 1 joint that is 3/4".

[Van Huskey]

I have had a pro shop for about the last 20-25 years.
I have never needed, or wanted to make a 3/4" or bigger mortise.



This got me thinking about when I have done larger than 3/4" mortises and the only times I can think of were doing through wedged tenons on some tables but I hand cut those.

[Brian Holcombe]

Timber frames could easily use 1" mortises and one might want to cut those on a mortiser for smaller beams. Usually for big beams you use a clamp on mortiser.

[Darcy Warner]

Any sized timber will tip over most mortisers that are being discussed here though.

[Joe Calhoon]

I have serveral mortisers including a Fisch bench top. I know they make chisels so probably it's a rebranded import. I would say it is one of the worst machines I have ever used. Even with sharp tools the hold downs and adjustments are not reliable and very flimsy. I could not imagine doing 3/4 or 1" mortises on one of these. I am sure some of the bench tops are better but I would think a heavier used HC would be money better spent.
We have a Domino XL for odd jobs and for the money it is precise and clean. Limited to loose tenons though. Sometime I am going to try squaring up a Domino mortise with the HC to see how that works.

[David Kumm]

351289 Doesn't cut square ends, ( Maka does those and is pretty versatile ) but this is what gets used the most. Bacci oscillating. Dave

[Van Huskey]

( Maka does those and is pretty versatile )

I think Darcy has/had a Maka..., if he has pics maybe he will share them, that is if my memory serves me correctly and it was him that I am thinking about.

Back to the HCM for a moment, Joe made a good point in that most benchtops have relatively poor clamping ability and most don't have an X-Y table at least not a geared one. That is one thing even the entry level floor models tend to do much better.

[Joe Calhoon]

I have had a pro shop for about the last 20-25 years.
I have never needed, or wanted to make a 3/4" or bigger mortise.
Ever.
Unless you are doing true timberframing type work with 1 1/2" and 2" mortises being the standard, but then that is always green wood, very large timber, and done with a drill, mallet and chisel.
Even thick doors 2 1/4" - 3" are done with dual 1/2" mortises, leading to a much stronger joint than only 1 joint that is 3/4".
Peter, we did 1" lock mortises for entry doors on the Maka for a while. We do these after assembly so it was awkward. The Maka will do a 4" deep X 1" X whatever width mortise in white oak very quick and accurate. We now have a portable Mafell chain for this. The Wadkin HC came with a 1" chisel that I tried in white oak. Granted the chisel was not at its best but it seemed to take a lot to cut into oak. Probably a automatic HC is better for large mortises on a production basis vs a standard HC.

[Bradley Gray]

I have a Hitachi portable chain mortiser for big stuff. A single plunge makes a 3/4 x 2 1/8" mortise up to 7" deep. The tilt/ side shift mechanism allows me to make a mortise up to 1 1/2 x 5 1/4 without releasing the clamping mechanism up to 7" deep in about 4 minutes.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm didn't have huge stuff in mind, I've cut twin 3/4" mortises in 4x4 timber, and I would imagine that would be manageable on a floor standing HCM. I do it on the floor with a tataki-nomi....so I'm a floor sitting solid chisel mortiser.

[David Kumm]

Mark Hennebury at solidwoodmachines.com does the most beautiful Maka restores I've ever seen. The electricals alone are a work of art. There are a few rebuilds on his site and on canadianwoodworking. Dave

[Darcy Warner]

It's difficult to video and run some of these things but, here is my Maka

https://youtu.be/gDLEuyOEDdQ

Here is my Festo CM

https://youtu.be/AdGYI85CAoQ

None of my Wysong though.

[Van Huskey]

here is my Maka




Thanks, especially the Maka, most haven't seen a Fein Multitool on steroids in action.