Scraper planes.

[john zulu]

Hi guys,

Would like to know if anyone found a good use for scraper planes. It is one of the few planes missing from my collection.

As I understand is that a LAJ combined with a blade of 50 degrees is about close enough to a scraper function. I know both planes are very different but the finish surface
should be the same right? Interlock grain treatment should also be close......

Correct me if I am wrong.

John

[Derek Cohen]

John ....

Wrong. A BU plane with a 62 degree cutting is moving towards the scraping end of the spectrum, but is still cutting. A typical scraper plane works around 80 -90 degrees. Some scrapers appear to be working at a lower angle, but this is because they have a hook on the blade, and that angle needs to be taken into account.

The result from scraping is different from the high angle BU plane. One can get a glossy finish off the latter, but the scraper will always leave a matte finish. Further, you can use the BU plane on soft woods as well, while the scraper is really only good for hardwoods.

Regards from Perth

Derek (not a fan of scraper planes)

[john zulu]

Derek,

Hmmm. The effective angle at 62..... Yeah I was worried the finish from a scraper was not that smooth compared to the BU planes. Looks I was not dreaming when I took the analog of the card scrapers.

Thanks!

[Rob Luter]

I have a couple scraper planes (Stanley #112 and Keen Kutter KK212), and I rarely use them. The Keen Kutter is a clone of a Stanley #12 Veneer Scraper. Both work well enough, but I don't work enough squirrely grain to need them often. In the event I do need a scraper, I usually grab one of my trusty Stanley #80 cabinet scrapers.

I concur with Derek's observations on scraping versus cutting. I use my LAJ with the 50 degree iron for smoothing boards with troublesome grain. It works well and leaves a smooth finish. The scraped surfaces always need secondary treatment to get them finish ready.

[david charlesworth]

Scraper planes are the best way of cleaning up veneered panels.
They will not tear up loose unglued spots which a bench plane will.

Scraping may then be followed with fairly light hand sanding.

If you have a rough idea of the thickness of your scraper plane shavings, probably about 1 thou", you will not risk going through the veneer, which you might do with power sanding.

For planing difficult timbers I prefer to use a 25 degree back bevel on a bench plane, EP 70degrees.

I find sharpening at 62 degrees a little awkward. (What I mean is it don't fit my favorite honing guide!!)

Best wishes,
David

[Derek Cohen]

I find sharpening at 62 degrees a little awkward. (What I mean is it don't fit my favorite honing guide!!)

Hi David

The LN honing guide will just set up at 50 degrees. It is not the best angle for this guide. Ditto for the Eclipse. I use the LN at this angle and then only pull the guide backwards. The Veritas guide is a better match (offers more projection), but I would also only pull the blade backwards to hone. There is a danger of digging in if pushing a high bevel angle like this forwards.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[john zulu]

I have a couple scraper planes (Stanley #112 and Keen Kutter KK212), and I rarely use them. The Keen Kutter is a clone of a Stanley #12 Veneer Scraper. Both work well enough, but I don't work enough squirrely grain to need them often. In the event I do need a scraper, I usually grab one of my trusty Stanley #80 cabinet scrapers.

I concur with Derek's observations on scraping versus cutting. I use my LAJ with the 50 degree iron for smoothing boards with troublesome grain. It works well and leaves a smooth finish. The scraped surfaces always need secondary treatment to get them finish ready.

I own a LV Cabinet scraper. So far it works well as it is. But does need smoothing later on.

[Christopher Charles]

I also have the LV cabinet scraper and also have the toothed blade. I find that I've used it more as a fancy-pants toothing plane than a scraper, so concur that it would be low on the list of planes to get.

Best,
Chris

[Terry Beadle]

You might want to consider a HNT Gordon block plane. With it's high angle bedding and reversing the blade, it makes a very good scraper plane while giving you the utility of a really exceptional brass mouthed block plane. Mine is made from ebony and has held up well over the years.

Enjoy the shavings !

Terry

[david charlesworth]

Derek'
Happy new year!

I wonder what you make of Terry Gordon's assertion that a low angle plane with 62 degree bevel, will stop cutting long before his set up of a 30 degree bevel in a 60 degree pitched plane?

The crucial detail being to do with clearance angle.

I am tempted to do some research here!

David

[Derek Cohen]

Hi David

I will email you at home and tell you all about it. This is not a subject for the forums.

Cheers

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

Wrong. A BU plane with a 62 degree cutting is moving towards the scraping end of the spectrum, but is still cutting. A typical scraper plane works around 80 -90 degrees. Some scrapers appear to be working at a lower angle, but this is because they have a hook on the blade, and that angle needs to be taken into account.

Indeed.

On related note, I suspect that the transition from the lower-cutting-angle hook to the past-vertical face of a scraper acts in a manner similar to a close-set cap iron to control tearout.

That realization helped me to finally recognize that you really don't want to overdo it when turning hooks on scrapers, for exactly the same reason that you don't want to set your cap iron too far back. A hook that extends a few mils from the scraper surface is ideal for fine work IMO.

Does anybody know if there's been any in-depth analysis of hooked scraper cutting mechanics, a la Kato/Kawai?

[Patrick Chase]

I wonder what you make of Terry Gordon's assertion that a low angle plane with 62 degree bevel, will stop cutting long before his set up of a 30 degree bevel in a 60 degree pitched plane?

The crucial detail being to do with clearance angle.

Flame-bait alert!

Seriously and FWIW, I find that the finished surface often becomes unacceptable due to tracking etc long before the plane stops cutting due to clearance.

I would also note that the two failure modes trade off against each other: Reducing the tip angle increases clearance and therefore delays stoppage, but it also makes the edge more susceptible to the sort of localized defects that cause tracking. Pick your poison :-).

[Normand Leblanc]

Does anybody know if there's been any in-depth analysis of hooked scraper cutting mechanics, a la Kato/Kawai?

A while back I did a research on the web for this question. I did it in English and French without luck.

[andy bessette]

A good use for a scraper plane is trimming solid edge banding and inlays on veneered ply.