Intro and converting desk into workbench question?

[Michael J Evans]

Hello all.
For some reason or another hand tools and methods have seemed to grab my attention lately.For some Background: I started out ww'ing with a little lathe,originally bought for making fishing reel handles.Moved onto acquiring a table saw , made a few projects and lost interest (like most of my hobbies).
Well I'm back to wwing , and now that I think about it the reason I started getting sucked into hand tools was because I was in need of a jointer / planer, but realized I didn't have the space ( half of a single car garage) so I went in search of alternative's, Stumbled upon Paul sellers videos and have since became seriously interested.
I now own a no 4 & 5 Stanley, some cheap HF chisels,16" tenon saw, disston D8, marking gauges, with a saw set and some files on the way. Since beginning my hand tool journey I've quickly realized my desk with a 3 1/2" machinist vise aint gonna cut it for holding stock to cut or plane.
Which really leads to my question...I have this older Jackson furniture desk made in the 50's / 60's. Heavy as heck, it has dovetail drawer construction and is made of densiwood? Which best I can find out / tell from cutting into it, is it's solid wood that's been impregnated with something. My original plan was to build a paul sellers bench, but I don't have room to keep this desk (which was both my grandfather's and fathers) and build a bench. I really would like to repurpose this desk into a workbench. It's 5ft wide by roughly 33" deep and I would guess the top is 11/2" thick or so. I'm mostly looking for confirmation on whether this is a good idea or would I be much better off just building a new bench? This will be my one and only bench.
Also I'm having hard time figuring out how to raise it up, while keeping a solid foot print and how to then attach the new extension to the desk. I do have some ideas on how and where I would attach a face and tail vise, still thinking about how I would clamp to the top though. Anyways any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

(On a side note, apologies in advance for my poor writing skills. Never have totally figured out where all the dots and commas go.)

[Jim Koepke]

It may be possible to keep your desk as is and use it as a bench. Instead of modifying the desk make what is called a bench on top of bench construction.

Often it is a smaller bench for specialized use. In your case it could be a bench top for woodworking that could later have a base installed if you find yourself with more space.

jtk

[john zulu]

The table looks solid enough for planing but hammering is a question. The legs looks thin. I would give it a try BUT when there is racking in the table I suggest you stop immediately as it will damage the table further.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Jackson+furniture+desk&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&imgil=tuoP0eMl81SoSM%253A%253BVoaL6iLD91oJ9M%253Bh ttps%25253A%25252F%25252Febayservicesoftexas.wordp ress.com%25252F2012%25252F09%25252F17%25252Fdesks-chairs-500-00%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=tuoP0eMl81SoSM%253A%252CVoaL6iLD91oJ9M%252C_&usg=__OOv6db6qKxfNy_8U9MrPbkieoRA%3D&biw=1920&bih=947&ved=0ahUKEwids4SPl6PRAhXMqY8KHefECFQQyjcIMw&ei=xiFqWJ24JszTvgTniaOgBQ#imgrc=tuoP0eMl81SoSM%3A

[Phil Mueller]

Not sure if it would work, but I would consider building a bench over the desk. Perhaps the bottom stretchers could be under the drawers and perhaps even have the desk sit on top of the stretchers to weigh down the bench. You would not need to build the bench to the depth of the desk. Vise screws might run between the desk top and the bottom of the bench top, if space permits. The bench could be construted using bolts, so it could be dissasembled to retrieve the desk in the future. Haven't really thought it through completely, but it would be a way to get a bench, keep the desk, and take up just a slightly larger footprint. The desk drawers for tools/etc, would be a bonus.

Welcome back to the world of woodworking!

[Joe A Faulkner]

The dimensions of the desk are problematic for using it as the foundation of a hand tool work bench. You could repurpose the desk as the main cabinet for a shaker style bench but it would be a lot of work. you could remove the top, separate the drawer stacks. Cut off their legs. Modify their depth to 20" or so and build a workbench base that uses the modified drawer stacks for storage. Build a new 3" thick top and make a coffee table and or hall table out of the old desk top. If you try to build a bench on bench over the desk, I think it will be too tall. 33" is pretty wide for a bench unless you can set it such that you can work it from all sides. How about using the desk as an outfeed table/assembly table for you tablesaw and build a separate bench?

[David Eisenhauer]

For my use, trying to make the desk work as a hand tool workbench would be too much of a stretch (overall dimensions, undersized legs, degree of difficulty for clamping objects down, degree of difficulty for adding a vise to, probability of causing damage to the desk). In my case, the desk would go in the house and I would build a purpose built workbench, even if it was a quick-build, simple 2x4 type sturdy workbench with a double-plywood top that would hold me until I decided if I really wanted or needed to build a more hand tool specific, heavier duty type workbench. That is what would work for me, but you will figure out what will work for you. My point is, I think it would take too much work-around effort to transmogrify the desk into a woodworking bench and the time would be better spent in building something more fit for the purpose.

[Michael J Evans]

Hmm the bench on a desk idea is intriguing, though I'm having a hard time imagining how I would secure it enough while planing? (Sp?)

My original idea was to cut off the feet (they have already been cut off and re glued by someone else) and build two separate box's that would attach to the cabinets and then brace across the back.

But while sitting here staring at it, and after reading the comments it'll prob be more trouble than its worth. I would have to remove the top right drawer and carve out the cabinet side to accommodate a tail vise.

I haven't quit figured out how to quote and all that on my mobile but @ david Eisenhower, regarding your last couple of sentences, at this point I think your right. I would hate to carve up this desk just to have something that might work okay....

I just went out and bought a mobile table saw base, after I get that set up and mobile I may be able to arrange my space differently, and keep both.

Anyways thanks for all the comments so far and if anyone else has any ideas, please shoot em this way. I'm gonna continue brainstorming for now.

[Bill McDermott]

A desk is a better workbench than nothing. However, once you start working on a bench you will be very glad for it. Think of a bench as the big part of a clamp or vise. It's a work holding device. It's tough to clamp things to a desk. Too bad you can't fit both. The desk could stay in the shop and serve as a desk, as a storage cabinet, as an assembly table, as a multipurpose horizontal surface and junk holder. That would keep your bench clear to do work. :)

[Chris Hachet]

I would google Bob and Dave's fast and cheap bench. Go dumpster diving in a new home subdivision if you are absolutely broke, but build a cheap bench from scratch. Use construction grade pine.

Clamping is perhaps the most under rated function of a bench, and having a bench free from obstructions where you can clamp things will be a major revelation.

Also, you will figure out 20 things you wish you had done differently, and incorporate them into your next bench. I waited 30 years to build a really good quality bench, and I would have gotten a lot more done if I had just built myself a proper woodworking bench back when Reagan was president.

Good luck with whatever you do and keep us posted!

[Chris Hachet]

For my use, trying to make the desk work as a hand tool workbench would be too much of a stretch (overall dimensions, undersized legs, degree of difficulty for clamping objects down, degree of difficulty for adding a vise to, probability of causing damage to the desk). In my case, the desk would go in the house and I would build a purpose built workbench, even if it was a quick-build, simple 2x4 type sturdy workbench with a double-plywood top that would hold me until I decided if I really wanted or needed to build a more hand tool specific, heavier duty type workbench. That is what would work for me, but you will figure out what will work for you. My point is, I think it would take too much work-around effort to transmogrify the desk into a woodworking bench and the time would be better spent in building something more fit for the purpose.

Exactly. I think one could build a proper bench for $75 to $150 depending on the choice of vise and how creative one is with sourcing lumber.

[Michael J Evans]

Too bad you can't fit both. The desk could stay in the shop and serve as a desk, as a storage cabinet, as an assembly table, as a multipurpose horizontal surface and junk holder. That would keep your bench clear to do work. :)

I set up the mobile base for the table saw and wow... even though technically I have the same amount of space, being able to move that sucker around is a game changer. No longer do I have to shimmy myself or my projects around the saw.

Now that the saw is mobile I'm going to try and make both work, if not then so be it and I'll see if my dad wants the desk back for any reason.

I'm pretty much set on sellers / nicholson? Design. I've been spending the last few nights drawing it out on paper. So far I'm thinking 30" deep X 60" wide X 38 high. From my searching it seems hand tool benches tend to not be as deep as regular benches, is there a main reason why? I can easily reach across my desk now, which is 33", just trying to figure out why the reasoning I've read for narrower?

Also along the same lines I'm trying to figure out if I want a tool well or not, Seems like a highly personalized kind of thing.Paul recommends them, but my bench will be against a wall, so I don't feel like it's as necessary, any insight?

[David Eisenhauer]

As this thread originated in a predominantly hand tool working forum, I will assume you are pointing towards hand tool woodworking. Typically, experts will advise that 24" is usually a maximum width desired for a hand tool working bench. For determining the dimensions of a hand tool working bench, I feel that one might think in terms of actually performing the standard clamping/stopping, chiseling, planning and sawing activities on the bench as opposed to the additional tasks such as assembly/gluing/clamping, finishing, storage, etc. I wonder if there are many hand tool activities associated with typical furniture fabrication that will benefit from a wider width bench? You may be able to reach 30" or so, but can you perform work there? Mixing in the fact that only a limited amount of space for a bench is available and the bench has to go along a wall (blocking access to one side) only confuses things in my mind. One single-size fits all or specific hand tool work size only bench? The hand tool work bench will benefit from some specific build details (top thickness/general mass, flush sides for ease of clamping, built in vise arrangements, etc) that are not required for the additional furniture building tasks that can be accomplished on a less massive (easier moved as required) multi-purpose type work surface. For my use, a tool well is a good thing, but that detail is a personal thing in my opinion.

[Chris Hachet]

At the very least having a hand tool capacity in a workbench may well help him down the road even if he is using 90 percent wooer tools. One can clamp things quickly and efficiently to power sand them or measure them on a hand tool bench...

[Jim Koepke]

Christopher Schwarz offers a good write up on why benches are sized the way they are:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/woe-double-wide-workbench

jtk

[Chris Hachet]

I love Schwartz....he does an excellent job of breaking down exactly what you need and suggests keeping it simple and building furniture.

[Michael J Evans]

David, this is exactly why I asked this question. It is very confusing to me as well, having never built a bench of this caliber... hence the reason I'm asking.

Yes this will be a hand tool bench. The only power tools I own are a table saw, drill / impact driver, ros and a compound miter saw. With space being the #1 luxury I'm missing, I don't see myself getting any other power tools. Plus since starting to mess around with the neander methods, I find them to be more challenging , which is what I like the most about it ( not that I'm an expert woodworker with machines).

My plan is mostly to build more indoor furniture. My wife wants a front hallway bench with storage for shoes and coats, so thats next on my to do list after the bench.

[steven c newman]

One other option...find an old dresser on the curb, Add a bench top to it, and rehab the drawers below. Dresser is now the bench's base, and has plenty of storage built in.

[David Eisenhauer]

There are a couple of very good workbench building books (in addition to Paul Sellars' ideas) out that go through the thinking (pluses and minuses) in the use of various types or styles of hand tool woodworking benches: (earlier) "The Workbench Book" - Scott Landis and (more recent) "The Workbench Design Book" - Chris Schwarz. These books, in addition to providing very good design and building information, are interesting in reading how others approach their work. In my opinion, many of us came from power tool woodworking to neander methods and tended to use their table saw catch-bench as their "one size fits all" workbench they used during their power tool phase when transitioning to hand tool work. Table saw catch benches are quite often built in the 3'-4' wide range, depending upon shop space availability and it can be surprising when one reads that 24" is considered plenty wide enough for hand tool working. 24" is indeed wide enough to build interior furniture, but, if someone with a very small shop was to say to me that he will never have the space for any type of assembly/gluing/clamping or secondary work surface type bench to accompany his main hand tool bench and therefore needed to build something a little wider to provide a little more space for the associated tasks, I could see that point as well. Each case, each person is different.

[Michael J Evans]

Christopher Schwarz offers a good write up on why benches are sized the way they are:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/woe-double-wide-workbench

jtk

Thanks for this, makes a little more sense.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Okay, since you are still in the brainstorming stage and now leaning towards a build, I strongly suggest going to your local library and checking out some of the books David referenced above or any others your library might have on the topic. If you are interested in a Nicholson style bench you might want to checkout the build that Bob Rozaieski documented in his You tube series when he was blogging under Logan Cabinet Shoppe. The episode on the base can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_7Jwja0uQg. He has other episodes there where he completes the bench. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Michael J Evans]

Okay, since you are still in the brainstorming stage and now leaning towards a build, I strongly suggest going to your local library and checking out some of the books David referenced above or any others your library might have on the topic. If you are interested in a Nicholson style bench you might want to checkout the build that Bob Rozaieski documented in his You tube series when he was blogging under Logan Cabinet Shoppe. The episode on the base can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_7Jwja0uQg. He has other episodes there where he completes the bench. Good luck and keep us posted.


Great Now I'm gonna spend more time watching videos, when i should be trying to build this thing... thanks ;)

[Michael J Evans]

The videos by Bob, have definitely gave me something to think about. I really hadn't given any thought to work holding besides a vise.
We'll guys, once again thanks. I'll keep everyone updated once I finally plunge into it.
Michael

[Jim Koepke]

The videos by Bob, have definitely gave me something to think about. I really hadn't given any thought to work holding besides a vise.
We'll guys, once again thanks. I'll keep everyone updated once I finally plunge into it.
Michael

Lots of ways to hold work without a vise. Here is one of mine seen on the Woodwright's Shop:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?223428

jtk

[Chris Hachet]

David, this is exactly why I asked this question. It is very confusing to me as well, having never built a bench of this caliber... hence the reason I'm asking.

Yes this will be a hand tool bench. The only power tools I own are a table saw, drill / impact driver, ros and a compound miter saw. With space being the #1 luxury I'm missing, I don't see myself getting any other power tools. Plus since starting to mess around with the neander methods, I find them to be more challenging , which is what I like the most about it ( not that I'm an expert woodworker with machines).

My plan is mostly to build more indoor furniture. My wife wants a front hallway bench with storage for shoes and coats, so thats next on my to do list after the bench.Being hand tool oriented gives you a huge amount of freedom in what you wish to tackle IMHO. I don't have that many more power tools than you do and I build all sorts of things.

[Chris Hachet]

Great Now I'm gonna spend more time watching videos, when i should be trying to build this thing... thanks ;) I find I stop working when I start doing stupid things or making mistakes. Woodworking videos are a great way to unwind someplace warm and comfortable with liquid refreshment.

[Chris Hachet]

The videos by Bob, have definitely gave me something to think about. I really hadn't given any thought to work holding besides a vise.
We'll guys, once again thanks. I'll keep everyone updated once I finally plunge into it.
Michael


Check out the Gramercy Hold fasts from Tools for Working wood. I got by for awhile with a pair of those and some 3/4 holes in a bench top....

[Michael J Evans]

Lots of ways to hold work without a vise. Here is one of mine seen on the Woodwright's Shop:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?223428

jtk

Jim that is very slick. Had to re read how it functions times to figure it out. Quite ingenious.

[Michael J Evans]

Being hand tool oriented gives you a huge amount of freedom in what you wish to tackle IMHO. I don't have that many more power tools than you do and I build all sorts of things.

So far I'm finding it's giving me a great excuse for my wife as to why her projects arnt done yet 😁

[Joe A Faulkner]

One more video on workholding on a nicholson style bench without any vices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhn-PAfEW4
Worth a look.

[Michael J Evans]

One more video on workholding on a nicholson style bench without any vices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhn-PAfEW4
Worth a look.

Please keep the links coming. Watching the last two videos has definetly gave me some perspective. I was really set on the vice and clamp method from paul sellers, Now I'm starting to rethink it a little. I still have my two cheap vices I'm going to use, but I think making the front apron flush and adding some dog holes in it seems like the way to go.

I do have some additional questions regarding the top thickness & mass. In Bob & Mikes video, they both look to have a single thickness 2x12, whereas in Paul's it's 3" +- , is this going to make a considerable difference in use & weight? My main reason for asking this is that while I'm not physically huge, 5'10" , I am bigger (230#) and rough when working, if that makes sense? So I don't want to be pushing the bench around.

Also if I do make the apron flush, won't the qr face interfere will the planing operations in Mikes videos?

Sorry for the additional questions, I know from reading that at some point I'll probably ending building another bench. It's just so hard to get the build it once build it right mentality out of my head. My dad while not a wood worker, is an excellent metal fabricator and in the shop made equipment at work we can always tell what he made just based upon weight and build quality (usually twice as heavy and ten times more braced than needs to be). That mentality is also stuck in me.

[Joe A Faulkner]

The only people who complain about thick bench tops are those who go over 5" and can't get their holdfasts to grab, and even then they complain about the holdfast. If it were me, I'd go with. 3" thick top over 1.5". You might checkout Maguire Artisan workbenches on you tube as well. Though these are not Nicholas style benches. They are very nice.

[David Eisenhauer]

I think you already have a "Logans Cabinet shop" link, but in case not, here you go. Bob built his with 2x lumber, but did beef it up along the dog hole row. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3r9uxmDCCs.

[Michael J Evans]

Hopefully this isn't bad forum etiquette by not starting a new post.
But is there any reason as to why a person shouldnt laminate (2) 2x12's (whole width) to make the 3" thickness off the top? Instead of cutting them down and laying them vertical?

I've been searching and haven't been able to find anything. Just seems like it'd be a whole lot less work. And would be better than using the single 2x12 with backers like in the videos.

Any insight appreciated

[Joe A Faulkner]

1. Most woodworkers don't have clamps on hand that are suitable for applying clamping pressure required to laminate 11 1/4" wide boards. You might get good pressure around the sides, but not in the middle.
2. Stability - an 11 1/4" wide board is going to move. If it's movement is restricted across its entire width due to being glued to another 11 1/4" board the stress and tension may introduce some twist.
3. If you mill the 11 1/4" wide board dead flat, it may not stay that way long enough to glue to another 11" 1/4 wide board to it.
4. An 11 1/4" wide board is likely to cup, laminate two together and they may not stay as flat.
5. Ripping lumber out of the 2 x 12 you can easily discard or set aside some of the "bad" boards and you can bury knots or below the work surface of your bench.

The movement issues are minimized and sometimes counteracted by ripping the lumber into smaller pieces and arranging pieces carefully in your glue up.

[Michael J Evans]

1. Most woodworkers don't have clamps on hand that are suitable for applying clamping pressure required to laminate 11 1/4" wide boards. You might get good pressure around the sides, but not in the middle.
2. Stability - an 11 1/4" wide board is going to move. If it's movement is restricted across its entire width due to being glued to another 11 1/4" board the stress and tension may introduce some twist.
3. If you mill the 11 1/4" wide board dead flat, it may not stay that way long enough to glue to another 11" 1/4 wide board to it.
4. An 11 1/4" wide board is likely to cup, laminate two together and they may not stay as flat.
5. Ripping lumber out of the 2 x 12 you can easily discard or set aside some of the "bad" boards and you can bury knots or below the work surface of your bench.

The movement issues are minimized and sometimes counteracted by ripping the lumber into smaller pieces and arranging pieces carefully in your glue up.

Exactly what I was looking for! Thanks for clarifying. I figured their was a good reason, I just couldnt find any supporting info as to why.

[William Fretwell]

6. Is your bench only going to be 11 & 1/4" wide? How do you join the next board?
7. Think about why you couldn't find anything.
8. Plywood can be laminated that way in small sections. If you try large pieces without a large flat press the size of the pieces then any irregularities are glued in forever. In your case both pieces of the 'laminate' will want to move forever and probably will.

[Matt Evans]

The Sellers bench or Nicholson Bench are both solid design, just depends on the way you work. Since you are just getting into the hand tools, I might suggest going simple but solid, with at least two work holding options. (Personally Id go with a leg vise with a crotchet next to it, and a set of holdfasts for someone just starting out)

I tend to build benches that are a max of 22" wide. Normally the width is around 20", but I've made several that are around 15-16" wide, and been very pleased with their usefulness. If you do build a narrow bench, I would caution you that the base should be more substantial than otherwise, both to give it more mass, and to stabilize the bench against tipping if you are really pushing, pulling or hit a knot at speed while planing or scrubbing a board.

Just a thought. . . Build two saw benches first. They are simple, give you a good primer in joinery and prepping stock, and will be useful for the bench building process. (plus, you can use them as saw horses, or throw your bench top on top of them and have a temporary bench to build your base on.)

[Michael J Evans]

6. Is your bench only going to be 11 & 1/4" wide? How do you join the next board?
7. Think about why you couldn't find anything.
8. Plywood can be laminated that way in small sections. If you try large pieces without a large flat press the size of the pieces then any irregularities are glued in forever. In your case both pieces of the 'laminate' will want to move forever and probably will.

Hi will, I'm not sure how to interpret your first two remarks i.e 6 & 7, they seem to come across very.... sarcastic, but since intent is lost over the Web I'll assume the comments were with the best intensions.

6. Could a bench top not be built with (2) 11.25" pieces with a tool well or split top in between, like with Bob or Schwarz nicholson design?

7. Often times the simplest of questions to those that are experienced, seem very complex to the novice.
I am a supervisor at work and often think to myself "why didn't they (employee) think before asking, but then I have to remind myself they have less than a year of experience whereas I have 7.

8. Until Joe and your posts, I hadn't even thought about even clamping pressure. Once again going to the experienced vs novice thing.

After reading both your posts I understand why now benches are not made with laminated 2 x 12's.

[Michael J Evans]

The Sellers bench or Nicholson Bench are both solid design, just depends on the way you work. Since you are just getting into the hand tools, I might suggest going simple but solid, with at least two work holding options. (Personally Id go with a leg vise with a crotchet next to it, and a set of holdfasts for someone just starting out)

I tend to build benches that are a max of 22" wide. Normally the width is around 20", but I've made several that are around 15-16" wide, and been very pleased with their usefulness. If you do build a narrow bench, I would caution you that the base should be more substantial than otherwise, both to give it more mass, and to stabilize the bench against tipping if you are really pushing, pulling or hit a knot at speed while planing or scrubbing a board.

Just a thought. . . Build two saw benches first. They are simple, give you a good primer in joinery and prepping stock, and will be useful for the bench building process. (plus, you can use them as saw horses, or throw your bench top on top of them and have a temporary bench to build your base on.)

Matt, thank you for your thoughts.

After watching some videos I now want to go with sellers thick top (3"+) with the rest of nicholsons design ( flush front apron, dog holes, hold fasts, possibly crochet and planing stops) I already have a QR vise I plan to use on the front and a regular old wilton vise, for the back. Although i might leave off the wilton and try to cram in a mini bench (w/wilton) for my 21/2 yr old, who now loves to spend all his time with me in the garage =).

[Noah Magnuson]

I think you are on a track that you will be satisfied with. You will probably change your mind a few times down the road, but for now it will be a great improvement. I recommend following the general consensus of less than 24" width, thick top, etc, but I will caution you about height recommendations. Try working at a lot of different heights and go with what is most comfortable and effective for you. There are strong and well-respected opinions all over the map with a lot depending on what you do most often. I would say my last bench is right in the middle of the fray.

[William Fretwell]

Hi will, I'm not sure how to interpret your first two remarks i.e 6 & 7, they seem to come across very.... sarcastic, but since intent is lost over the Web I'll assume the comments were with the best intensions.

6. Could a bench top not be built with (2) 11.25" pieces with a tool well or split top in between, like with Bob or Schwarz nicholson design?

7. Often times the simplest of questions to those that are experienced, seem very complex to the novice.
I am a supervisor at work and often think to myself "why didn't they (employee) think before asking, but then I have to remind myself they have less than a year of experience whereas I have 7.

8. Until Joe and your posts, I hadn't even thought about even clamping pressure. Once again going to the experienced vs novice thing.

After reading both your posts I understand why now benches are not made with laminated 2 x 12's.

Hi Michael,
No sarcasm intended! I have a formal science education, years in R&D and development. Comments based in fact. I enjoy thinking and encourage others to do the same.

Yes you could have a split top but my preference would be for a wider front at least.

Understanding wood, how it moves, how to glue and not to glue, joints, grain etc. takes a while. Following a tried method such as Paul Sellers bench (just one example) is a 'fairly' safe place to start. I say fairly as one recent member discovered one small error caused lots of extra work. Whatever you make will not be your last bench and even the simplest bench with a properly supported chipboard top can be immensely useful and be used to make a superb bench someday.

A bench needs mass, rigid support, a flat top and a comfortable height. There are numerous ways to hold work even without a vice.

So find a design you feel capable of and can afford. One step at a time and you will have a bench.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Regarding bench height, there are a couple of considerations. If you primarily plan to use metal planes you are in my opinion well served to put the height at the distance your palms would be off the floor if placed flat on top of your bench. Some woodie users may prefer there bench a couple of inches shorter. Given that you have a table saw and a small space to work in you may want to consider keeping your bench no higher than your tablesaw. In tight shops ripping long boards can be a challenge if there are lots of work surfaces taller than your TS that may be in the area needed to rip sheet goods. Particularly important to avoid if you build cabinets, bookcases, entertainment center, closet organizers or other projects that involve ripping 8' long sheet goods on the Tablesaw.

[glenn bradley]

Hmm the bench on a desk idea is intriguing,

Bench on bench example (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?229640-My-Take-on-the-Bench-on-Bench). You could design it such that cut-to-length pipe clamps held it in place.

[William Fretwell]

I agree with Joe, sheet goods are a pain to rip. You need a ton of space and anything in their path should help, not hinder their passage. I even made my sheet goods rack mobile, but with 3 tons aboard I discovered I was kidding myself!

Having said that my workbench at 38 & 1/2" is not in the way. It means I can see what I am chiselling or sawing, and planing at that height is fine for me as I am well over 6'2" in work boots. The traditional low bench for planing is hard on the back and puts all your other detailed work too low. People were much shorter 300 years ago. Some traditions are best forgotten.

[Michael J Evans]

Understanding wood, how it moves, how to glue and not to glue, joints, grain etc. takes a while.

I recently started (since beginning hand planing) doing some quick reading on wood movement and different types of sawn wood and grain. Before using planes I really hadn't even thought of these things. Most of my projects up till recently didn't make me think or take into account any of them.

I still don't understand much but like you said it takes awhile, hopefully by the time I'm done with this bench, I'll have a little better grasp.

[Michael J Evans]

Regarding bench height, there are a couple of considerations. If you primarily plan to use metal planes you are in my opinion well served to put the height at the distance your palms would be off the floor if placed flat on top of your bench. Some woodie users may prefer there bench a couple of inches shorter. Given that you have a table saw and a small space to work in you may want to consider keeping your bench no higher than your tablesaw. In tight shops ripping long boards can be a challenge if there are lots of work surfaces taller than your TS that may be in the area needed to rip sheet goods. Particularly important to avoid if you build cabinets, bookcases, entertainment center, closet organizers or other projects that involve ripping 8' long sheet goods on the Tablesaw.

Good point!
I havent given any thought to the interference the bench might cause while ripping sheet goods. I plan to make the bench 38" and cut down, tomorrow I'll have to go and get the height off my table saw. It would be nice if the bench could possibly function as a out feed table as well. Although my primary concern now is that it functions well as a hand tool bench and is comfortable on my back. I'm only 25 but trying to hunch over and work on my desk for extended periods of time really sucks,

[Michael J Evans]

Decided I had had enough thinking about building and went down to buy my 2x12's earlier. After getting to the hardware store, I found out they didn't stock a kd 2x12, so I went on home depots website and they don't list kd 2x12 either. Does everyone buy their 2x12 green, or do I just need to call up some actual lumber yards?

[Chris Hachet]

Decided I had had enough thinking about building and went down to buy my 2x12's earlier. After getting to the hardware store, I found out they didn't stock a kd 2x12, so I went on home depots website and they don't list kd 2x12 either. Does everyone buy their 2x12 green, or do I just need to call up some actual lumber yards?

It does not have to be Kiln dried for a bench. The oak I am building my bench from has been air dried for 40 plus years. Southern Yellow pine, if your lumber yard has it, can finish drying in a few months indoors.

A moisture meter might be helpful.

Also, kiln dried softwood from one of my local lumber yards is only marginally more expensive than stuff from big box stores, and much nicer.

[David Eisenhauer]

Just pick up the best looking 2x12's you see at HD, Lowe's or the like and stack it stickered up in your shop so the shop air can get around it and let it sit a week or two. I did not have room to store all of the lumber required for my bench in my shop at one time, so I bought the base lumber first, then the top lumber later when the base lumber was all fully milled and required less storage space. I cut my base portion 2x12's to rough length before stacking for ease of walking around the pile. Most likely the 2x12's will want to "pinch" your TS blade (if that is what you use) when ripping to rough width, so be prepared for an alternate method than just normal, straight TS ripping. I agree, it is time to go to work.

[Michael J Evans]

Most likely the 2x12's will want to "pinch" your TS blade (if that is what you use) when ripping to rough width, so be prepared for an alternate method than just normal, straight TS ripping. I agree, it is time to go to work.

I hope that is not the case, my alternative will either be a circular saw, which I would assume would pinch. Or a d8 that I'm converting to a rip saw, which would really suck. Oh well,Guess it gives me a chance to practice my sawing skills.

I ended up calling an actual lumber yard and they stock kd doug fir 2x12x12, couple bucks more per length, but I'd rather start with dryer wood.
They'll even deliver my little order (for free) if I wanted. But I'm sure I'd be better off picking through the pile than taking what's delivered.

[Chris Hachet]

I hope that is not the case, my alternative will either be a circular saw, which I would assume would pinch. Or a d8 that I'm converting to a rip saw, which would really suck. Oh well,Guess it gives me a chance to practice my sawing skills.

I ended up calling an actual lumber yard and they stock kd doug fir 2x12x12, couple bucks more per length, but I'd rather start with dryer wood.
They'll even deliver my little order (for free) if I wanted. But I'm sure I'd be better off picking through the pile than taking what's delivered.They might let you pick them out and then deliver what you pick out.