Need suggestions for a drum sander

[Dan Hahr]

Happy New Year everyone! I am building my home and doing all the trim. I have a couple thousand feet of moulding to sand. It is all craftsman style, so there is a lot of flat stock to sand. I am thinking of getting a Grizzly sander to use for the final sanding to 150 or so. However, it seems that many feel that these are underpowered and slow. I can't find any used models in my area.

What do you all think about the feasibility of using the 10" or even 18" sanders to run this moulding? I think I would only need to use one pass, but my hope is to be able to go straight to finishing with primer then paint without seeing any machining marks. A light swipe with a ROS might be doable, but I am starting to think that would take too long.

I was thinking that the 18" drum sander would work since I could run several through at a time. Plus, I could use it in the future for projects like cutting boards, and other furniture pieces that don't require a precision fit.

What do y'all think?

Thanks, Dan

[Nick Decker]

No advice, Dan, but I'll be watching this thread with interest. Some Jet tools will be 15% off from Jan. 5-9, including their 10-20 model. Alas, the 16-32 model won't be included in the sale. I feel the 10-20 model will be fine for my needs, so I'll be pulling that trigger later this week.

I considered the Grizzlies, but the reviews on their smaller models make me uncomfortable.

[glenn bradley]

Drum sanders do not, as you have observed, take you to a finish ready state for stains and translucent finishes. For material that would be primed and painted I would probably choose a planer, then possibly a run with a ROS, prime and paint. The planer will be faster than the sander although more stock will likely be removed. This shouldn't be a problem as I assume you are starting with rough stock and not S2S since that would probably require just the ROS (if that) before prime and paint.

If staining I would prepare the surface differently. If using a good primer and a good enamel paint, I would test a piece right off the planer and see how you like it. If you are just wanting to get a drum sander, that is a different discussion. I run a Supermax 19-38 and it is fine for hobbyist work. It may even serve a dedicated function in a pro shop but, at a top speed of 10 to 12 feet per minute . . . well, you do the math.

If I were looking at 2000 lineal feet I would either use a different type of machine or gird my loins and step up to the scale of $ander$ that are designed for that kind of volume. Another option is to pay a local shop to run it for you on a production level machine. You can see why I suggest you test your primer and finish on a piece out of the planer?

[John K Jordan]

I think wider is better if possible, even if you don't often use wide stock. I have a Performax 22-44 and what I put through it us almost always narrower than 6". However, there is plenty of space to put several boards through at once. I often put boards through at an angle which is possible if the drum is wide enough. And moving the stock to different places on the drum spreads out the wear on the sanding strips.

JKJ

[John TenEyck]

I've had a Delta 18x36 for 6 or 7 years. This type of machine is fine for light hobbiest work, but not the machine you would want to run thousands of ft of material through. I've done it - and it's no fun. You can't really run more than a single piece of stock through the machine at one time; if you try and one piece is a little different in thickness than the other the thinner piece is likely to slip and won't be sanded the same as the thicker piece and sometimes not at all. And these machines can't take off more than 0.005 - 0.010" in a pass, even less if you are running something really wide. So what you think you should be able to do in a single pass ends up taking 2 or 3 or more passes, which gets frustrating in a hurry.

If I were facing your task I would want a lot more serious machine. The Grizzly 1066r is what I'd look at; 2 drums and 5 HP means you can do serious work with it, and it's really not very expensive. Another option is to have a pro shop sand your stock for you. But I would definitely sand it. A planer won't give you the same consistent finish.

John

[Steven Hosler]

I agree with John. I have the Delta 18x36, and I have no complaints about it, other than it is slightly underpowered (can only remove 0.005-0.010" per pass). With 180 or 220 paper, I have found the quality to be "paint ready". If I could afford the space and costs, I would upgrade to a 2 drum, 5 HP system (like the Grizzly).

[eugene thomas]

I would get what will need for the futer in your shop and make it work for the trim.

[Dan Hahr]

I was going to just sand it with my ROS, since it is very close to smooth after the planer. I really only need to take out some fine ridges and dimples from chips. Im going to see if anyone in my area has a small widebelt or bigger drum sander I could borrow or buy. I have a Woodmaster 718 that I am borrowing, but I don't read much good about their sanding abilities.

Dan

[paul cottingham]

Don't forget good dust collection, that will create a huge amount of fines. It just needed to be said.

[Jim Andrew]

If you are really in the market for a sander, consider what I did. I skipped the drum sanders and went with the small Grizzly widebelt sander, 15" open end. It is a 5hp machine and single phase. Mine is a G9983, and noticed it was on closeout last year. The new Grizzly catalog has a new model, same size. Had mine a few years, don't run it every day, mostly flatten panels with it, works great, and I get a long life out of their 5 pack of belts. Have yet to break a belt in the machine. Only problem having occured was getting the belt on NOT correctly, and sanding off a fitting. Put the edge of your belt on even with the end of the upper roller, and make sure it goes behind the guide on the back side.

[Dan Hahr]

I really would like to get something like that. I really don't like to purchase machines that won't perform at the high level I hope for them to. If I knew I could resell it locally and recoup most of my money, I wouldn't mind forking over that kind of money. However, I'm on a tight budget until I close on this house and I don't think I'd be saving that much. I'm hoping to find someone locally that will let me rent some time on their widebelt sander. It's worth a few hundred to me, but it would be hard to get up into the thousands when I am doing this myself to save some money.

Dan

[Jeff Bartley]

Dan,

A small drum sander is really not the tool for this task. If the finish from the planer is ok I'd just go with a ROS. Fresh knives can leave a surface ready for paint.

If a heavier sanding is necessary I'd take it to a mill shop with a wide belt....well worth the money for the time savings and quality not finish.

Of course if you're looking to justify a tool purchase I can hopefully be an enabler by saying that small drum sanders do a great job for small jobs and smaller stock and the entrance fee for a used one is usually low enough to try one out.

[Dan Hahr]

Thanks, Jeff. I have three ROS sanders and two kids and a wife.:) I think we are going to set up an assembly line and just run it off the planer. I set up brand new blades in my 15" planer and ran it all through at slow speed but I still created several nicks and left some ridges on the boards. Of course, there are places where the grain direction reversed and there is some minor tear out. I may take a few thousandths off with my trusty Dewalt 13" planer (with fresh knives) for the showier pieces. My standards are too high for this kind of work.

I was going to spray Coverstain as a primer and paint with a high quality trim paint. I'm not sure how much this will cover, so as soon as it stops raining, I'll set up some test boards and find out.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Dan

[Peter Aeschliman]

Dan,

I suspect that if your planer is finely-tuned and you keep the knives sharp, you might have better results with the planer and ROS. The ROS will leave a random scratch pattern, while the drum sander will leave pretty obvious linear scratches.

My advice would be to run some experiments on samples using the ROS first. Time yourself going through the whole process, including painting. Multiply it all out and see if the cost of time is satisfactory. 100 grit down and back on each board might be enough for a paint-grade job. If not, consider next steps.

A drum sander will take at least that long and will likely leave more visible scratches.

[Robin Frierson]

I think Woodmaster makes the best drum Sanders. I had a 26 and 38. Steel drum, runs at a slower speed, 5hp..Also like the idea of the open end wide belt. Best of luck

[Cary Falk]

I had the Grizzly 18/36 and it is just ok. There are a lot of little annoyances. I now have a SuperMax 25/50 and love it. That being said, a couple thousand feet is a lot. As other people have mentioned, a drum sander is not a finish sander. I have not had much luck with anything finer than 120 grit. I haven't tried painting over it but you can see the lines so I would think it might show up under paint. I guess it would depend on you planer also. I used to have a lunchbox that left a glass smooth finish that I wouldn't hesitate to send right to paint. My spiral head 15" leaves marks that are visible but not noticeable to the touch. I would guess they would telegraph through the finish. It would take me less time to hit it with a ROS then send through a drum sander. The drum sander would be less physical work. There is always buying a new toy aspect also.

[Sam Puhalovich]

Jet 22/44 Oscillating Drum Sander.
As thoughtfully mentioned above from experienced user ... no one solution fits all. Considering how you'll use the machine after the trim 'run' is a major factor. I rely on my sander to be a flattener-thicknesser, and have had excellent results from the Oscillating 22/44. Weather it's wide panels or some narrow stock. As mentioned above ... one of your helpers can run 4 or 5 pieces at-a-time thru it. The pieces will be the same thickness ... depending on how well you set-up the drum-to-conveyor parallelism. Using the oscillating mode will leave almost a ROS equivalent finish. I've used up-to 180 grit for sanding drawer fronts.
I had a 18" Woodmaster that I mainly used for a sander. The only way I could get something even in thickness was to run-it down-the-middle. The middle of the table flexed about .012 ... anything run at the sides ended-up tapered.

[Jeff Straper]

I love drum sanders and I've used quite a lot of them. Nowadays there are great options at any price range so every craftsman should aim to own one in my opinion! Anyway, picking the perfect one for you depends on 3 major things - budget, size and capabilities - although the best overall bang for your buck options are in my opinion the SuperMax 19-38 and the Jet JWDS-1836. Both excellent in terms of price/quality so be sure to give them a look. Give this (http://www.sanderscore.com/best-drum-sanders-for-sale-reviews/) a look if you want an analysis of the most widely used drum sanders coupled with a very useful comparison. Be sure to give us an update when you've made up your mind!

[Robert Engel]

From what I know Woodmaster is probably the best drum sander out there.

I have the Grizzly 16" dual drum. Not real happy with it just not a well made machine. Power is fine, DC is not. Paper staying tight a big problem for me. They make a conversion kit to hook and loop which helps.

My suggestion is an open side sander like the Performax future ability to sand wider panels is a plus. The come up used once in a while.

Another thought is skip the drum sander and spend the money on a helical head upgrade for your planer.

[Charles Webber]

Sorry to jump on this thread, but it seemed like the best place to put my question. I am in the market for a drum sander. I sand a lot of 6' 1x8 white pine boards. No knots. I had read some where that the drum sanders don't work with a soft wood like pine as it gums up the sand paper. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, it would defeat the purpose of me buying one and don't want to find out too late!
I am struggling between the Jet 10-20 and the Supermax. Would this be a coin flip between the two?
Thank you for your input.

[Ted Reischl]

Of course you can only take off .005 -.010 with 180 or 220 grit paper! Try slowing the feedrate instead of running at wide open. Or, for a few good yucks, put a 220 belt in the old belt sander and see if YOU can hog off more than .010.

Sheesh.

[Ted Reischl]

Sorry to jump on this thread, but it seemed like the best place to put my question. I am in the market for a drum sander. I sand a lot of 6' 1x8 white pine boards. No knots. I had read some where that the drum sanders don't work with a soft wood like pine as it gums up the sand paper. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, it would defeat the purpose of me buying one and don't want to find out too late!
I am struggling between the Jet 10-20 and the Supermax. Would this be a coin flip between the two?
Thank you for your input.

If you put SYP in it, you will definitely gum up the paper, FAST. The finer the grit, the faster it will gum.

I have not had any problems with other pines. I work a lot with big box construction lumber and the drum sander is my go to tool after resawing. Sold the planer about 5 years ago, got tired of the pricey blades, chipping whenever it hit a knot, etc.

Get used to the idea that if you have to remove a lot of material it is wise to use a coarser grit and then change to your finish grit. I have not found it necessary to go through all the grits. If I have to hog, I use 36 grit and then I will go right to 180 or 220.

[larry senen]

I've been toying with the idea of setting up a power feed to push some stock under a 6" ros that's either spring loaded or gravity alone .for face frame and other stock. I can envision several ros in a machine with a feed belt. Just have to curl the edges of the discs.

[Dan Hahr]

Well, back in January I decided to skip the sander purchase and run all the molding using my planers and ROSs. I prepped 600 feet of 7" tall base boards this way sanding with 100-150 grit paper. It went fine but took a couple days.

As as I neared my closing date, I realized that I could not afford to spend precious time on a ROS. I decided to bite the bullet and order a Supermax 1938 drum sander. I then realized that every online dealer in the US was out of stock and Supermax had them back ordered till the end of may. On a whim, I called the closest Woodcraft in Birmingham and found one. It cost me an extra hundred for freight but I had it three days later.

I am am very satisfied with it although I still have not gotten it tweaked perfectly. I ran all the door and window casing, headers, cased opening jambs, etc plus several cabinet door panels through it. I am still using the first roll of 220 I started with (although it is about time to change it.). Everything comes out smooth enough that a quick pass with 220 in a ROS and I'm ready to paint. 150 left lines that I could see easily.

Ok typing on my phone is a pain. Back on the pc...

Dan

[Dan Hahr]

As far as speed or ability to process a large amount of wood.... it is plenty fast. Not FAST by normal planer speed standards, but a lot faster than sanding with an ROS. For example, I cut all the door molding for the whole house and had it stacked up around the garage walls. I had 26 doors and 5 cased openings to trim out. I had them all sanded on one face in maybe two hours max including stacking and sorting. I ran most of it at about 70 percent feed rate. The finish was practically perfect except a few boards where my 11 and 12 year old helpers bumped the boards as they caught them on the out feed side.

At the same time, I had a stack of center panels for my cabinet doors ready to sand. I took them down just far enough to eliminate the planer ridges and leave a uniform sheen. I couldn't find more than 2 or 3 thousandths difference side to side in thickness in any of the panels.

It does not sand multiple boards well at one time, but boards as wide as 15 inches have come out smooth and flat. I didn't think I could justify the expense, but when I resawed several wide curly maple boards and got smooth flat panels with no tear out, I realized that it will pay for itself soon enough.

I do have two planers, a 15" and 13" Dewalt. They do produce glass smooth panels with brand new blades, but that level of finish only lasts for a few boards. The ridges from the nicked knives need to be removed before finishing and even fresh sandpaper in a ROS takes a while.

For what it's worth, I sanded boards 8' long without the accessory tables. I did have my helpers support the boards as they reached the ends. My only real complaint is that the bed of the sander is sheet steel and it does deflect slightly if pushed on. You can run a board through it multiple times at the same setting and each pass removes more material. It appears that the wood forces the drum up or bed down as it squeezes through. However, boards come out flat and smooth, so maybe I'm just imagining things.

I only have two regrets: one, I wish I bought it before I hand sanded 600' of tall base. Two, a very slightly used one appeared on craigslist a week after I bought mine for half the price.

Dan

[larry senen]

Really don't need a 19 38 how's the jet 10 20 ? Probably just use 220 paper.