Jointer or planer/jointer options

[Joe Hollis]

I currently have a DeWalt DW735 planer and 6" Ridgid Jointer. They both work well enough, but the jointer in particular is limiting, due to its narrow capacity and power. After reading reviews here and elsewhere on combination machines, in particular the Hammer A3-31 and A3-41, Felder AD741 and others, I'm not sure that a combination machine is the right retirement machine for me. With this in mind, I am considering a 10" or 12" jointer, and installing a helical cutting head on the planer, which does not have much use on it at this point.

I have looked at the Scorpion 12" sold by Canadian Woodworker, which appears to be virtually identical to General International's version, the Grizzly 12", and the Oliver 10". There are no local distributors for Oliver, but they are not that far away from me here in B.C. I like the idea of buying locally, but there are VERY few reviews of anybody's version of the 12" Scorpion/General International jointer, which suggests fewer have been sold. I did look at the Casedei combination machines at Cdn. Woodworker, but the finish and finish on them (to me) looks off-shore-ish, despite what I hear about them being made in Italy.

Anyway, I am interested in your thoughts on the above. I am not afraid of paying for a high quality combo machine, I am just not sure I want to have to do the jointer/planer function swap.

So far, I am leaning towards the 10" Oliver with the Byrd helical head.

Thanks to all for your thoughts on this.

Joe H.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Some thoughts for you to ponder:
1) One of the advantages of spiral is the reduced noise, which you are obviating by putting it in a DW735 with a universal motor. My C3-31 with spiral cutterhead is quiet enough to use without ear protection.
2) Straight knives in the jointer might leave tear-out that you have to remove by running through the planer, again. Spiral on both seems ideal.
3) The function swap on a combo is not as irritating as you might think. It takes well under 60 seconds. I find that I enjoy fondling the machine enough that doing the swap doesn't bother me in the least :)

[Mark Carlson]

I had the same issue. I started out with a 13in Delta planer and a 6in powermatic jointer. Converted the jointer to a byrd head. Then bought a A3-31 jointer/planer with a byrd head. Love the A3-31. I dont mind the change over. Raising and lowering the planer bed takes the most time in change over. I kept the old planer and jointer and use still use them on occasion like if I need to edge joint something and my jointer/planer is in planer mode. Or, if I need to plane something that I dont want to send through my byrd head j/p. I would rather have dedicated machines but space and cost is an issue with separates. Now I wish I bought the A3-41. Oh I agree about the how quiet helical head is in a j/p and wouldn't convert the Dewalt for that reason. Good luck.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Re: changeover time. Yes, the cranking the table up/down is really the only part that takes any amount of time. If that could be avoided, you could do changeover in 10 seconds. Joe, I see you're considering the AD741 - that has the "PowerDrive" option (motorized raise/lower), which would shorten that time, significantly.

That said, on the A3-31 or -41, some people just stick a rod through the middle of the height adjust handwheel and chuck a cheap cordless drill onto it. You could easily swap between jointing and planing in <20 seconds, in that case.

[Ben Rivel]

Re: changeover time. Yes, the cranking the table up/down is really the only part that takes any amount of time. If that could be avoided, you could do changeover in 10 seconds. Joe, I see you're considering the AD741 - that has the "PowerDrive" option (motorized raise/lower), which would shorten that time, significantly.

That said, on the A3-31 or -41, some people just stick a rod through the middle of the height adjust handwheel and chuck a cheap cordless drill onto it. You could easily swap between jointing and planing in <20 seconds, in that case.Ha! Thats a good idea. Im hoping to buy an A3-31 sometime next year, Ill have to keep that in mind!

[Rod Sheridan]

Ha! Thats a good idea. Im hoping to buy an A3-31 sometime next year, Ill have to keep that in mind!

The only problem is that then the handwheel can't have the height gauge in it.

You really do want the digital height gauge........Rod.

[Dan Friedrichs]

You really do want the digital height gauge........Rod.

I use a Wixey DRO, which is nice, but probably not as good as the Felder solution.

I'm actually just about done with a little project to mount a DC gear motor onto the height adjustment - basically building my own "PowerDrive" while leaving the handwheel in place for the gauge. I'll post pictures when I finally get it finished.

[John TenEyck]

If you don't want to swap back and forth with a J/P, and it sounds like you don't, then you should get separate machines. The advantage of the J/P, in my opinion, is getting that big, wide jointer, and is the primary reason I have one. Switching between the two functions is not hard, nor does it take very long, but it can annoying when you have to change it to do a single board, etc.

Where I live in NY you can find 12" and wider used jointers for very reasonable prices; usually less than $2K, and that's the route I would go if I wanted one. But if you don't want to deal with a used machine, then it's really hard to beat the Grizzly 12" with spiral head for price vs. quality and performance which, in the US anyway, you can have delivered to your door for about $3K.

Just my opinion, but if you decide to go with a 12" jointer that Dewalt planer is going to look pretty small beside it. Most folks would want a larger, beefier machine to pair with it.

John

[Jim Becker]

I'm a believer in the J/P format for wide jointing capacity that matches thickness planing capacity. And I'm also an owner of the same. (MiniMax) While in the "ideal world" with unlimited space separates would be great, the majority of hobbyist woodworkers don't have the space for "big separates" and J/P combos are of great value. All too often during these discussions, the concern with "change over" comes up. Folks, it's pretty much a "non issue" 99% of the time in my experience. The minute or so it take, even with manual cranking of the planer bed, isn't a big deal and may even help with pacing which can reduce mistakes. Same goes for concerns about "short beds" for jointing. Very few projects require really long stock. Plan things out and break down the rough lumber a little before you start milling it. ;)

[Robin Frierson]

I seriously considered the JP but went with separates, 12in grizzly jointer and 15in grizzly planer, both with spirals. A little cheaper than the euro JP. I like to walk up and use the machine. No way I want to bend over and crank some table ever time I want to change over. The planer seems low to me also. I frequently rejoint boards when gluing up and would hate to have to switch over for one quick joint. That just me, I dont like small inconveniences. Like John said though, the 16in jointer is one big positive but I like the longer tables and cast iron fence of the grizzly vs aluminum fence and short beds. Perhaps if I was to work with a JP for some time my opinion would change but have only played with them at woodworking shows..

[John Lankers]

I have a Felder AD741 with Powerdrive and spiral cutterhead, with a changeover time of well under a minute and 100% repeatable cutting height on the planer a jointer planer combo gives you the best of both worlds. If you don't have access to a drum sander and need to clean up some glued up panels, which are often in the 10" - 14" - 15" range, a 16" jointer is a true lifesaver.
One note of caution: You get what you pay for.
Btw., Felder has a showroom in Nanaimo.

Edit: The AD741 has a 78" (2000 mm) long jointer bed and if that's not long enough Felder offers cast iron extension tables for the jointer and planer beds which are interchangeable with most of their equipment.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I have Laguna 10" J/P with spiral head. Same concept as the Hammer, but not as nice of a machine.

I will add to the chorus - the change over is not a big deal at all. It's odd to me how concerned people are about it. In a production environment where time is money, sure. I could understand. But for a hobbyist, are we really in such a hurry that ~1 minute is a big deal? You just batch out your parts- edge joint and face joint all of your work pieces in one go, then change the machine over and plane. Easy peasy.

I think for the space and cost savings, it's easily worth the trade off. If cost and space are not primary concerns, then without a doubt, separate machines with the same capacity are better.

Robin does raise a fair criticism about the planer bed height however. If you are working on a big project with lots of parts, hunching over to feed your workpieces can do a number on your back. So in that sense, I do think that separates would be better retirement machines.

[John Lankers]

Robin does raise a fair criticism about the planer bed height however. If you are working on a big project with lots of parts, hunching over to feed your workpieces can do a number on your back. So in that sense, I do think that separates would be better retirement machines.

Could be an issue for some, but I'm 6'3" tall and I find chasing the boards from the infeed side to the outfeed side is good exeercise and (I just checked) my planer bed is 32" above the floor when planing 3/4" stock.

[Brian W Evans]

I just got a Minimax FS-41 Classic 16" J/P combination and I could not be happier. Changeover is not a big deal, believe me. I had concerns about the aluminum fence as well, but it is quite heavy and stiff. When you think about it, don't think Incra or Woodpeckers (both companies whose products I love) - the aluminum fence is MUCH heavier than anything they sell. Mine also came with a rod that can be used to keep the fence from flexing if you are really pushing on it for some reason. The heavier Minimax series (Elite and Elite S) j/p combos have center-mounted fences that are even beefier.

I chose to go with the Tersa blades because they are cheap and so easy to change. Here is a video showing how to do it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXIIPCyTjgs) on a Minimax FS-30 (12") j/p. With a 16" jointer, I can skew workpieces with difficult grain in order to minimize tearout. I used to have a Shelix head in my old jointer and I really liked it but I think sharp knives give a nicer finish.

One factor that pushed me to buy right now is the exchange rate. The dollar is quite strong compared to the Euro so European goods are as cheap as they have been in many, many years.

Good luck with your decision.

[James Zhu]

Felder is running 60 years anniversary sale in states. If you are considering AD741, you should buy AD941 instead, basically $1000 more for a much better machine, it is usually $4000 more. Here below is that someone posted on Felder Owner Group regarding the pricing between AD741 and AD941.

Both units have the powerdrive. In the current specials the AD941 is available for $10955 with the Comfort guard, Powerdrive, Silentpower Cutterhead, and $500 in shipping support.
The 741 is available for $9345 with the Powerdrive and Silent Cutterhead, but not the comfort guard or the shipping support. By the time you account for the Comfort guard and the Shipping support, you're basically $1000 apart.

[David M Peters]

I've had a 12" helical J/P for going on two years now and am still happy with the format of the machine. If I had a bigger shop I would get two machines but that's not a luxury I have right now. Switchovers are only annoying when your workflow goes astray and you need to switch for a one-off operation. Otherwise switching takes 30-40s at most.

For reference I have Rikon's 21-210H, if you search YouTube you'll find my review of it.

[Erik Loza]

..I did look at the Casedei combination machines at Cdn. Woodworker, but the finish and finish on them (to me) looks off-shore-ish, despite what I hear about them being made in Italy...

No opinion on what you should or shouldn't do but I can tell you 100% that those Casadei units are indeed made in Italy. They are rebadged Minimax machines.

Erik