Maybe Bronze wasn't a good idea? LN #4

[Tony Wilkins]

As might be remembered my woodworking occasionally must needs take longer pauses due to health. I bought an LN #4 a year or so ago and got it in bronze thinking it wouldn't rust.

Fast forward to recently and I was finally able to get back out to the shop. The #4 was unusable because of the black streaks it was leaving on the board. I sat down today and a friend of mine and I started to try to rectify the situation. We started with a polishing cloth like LN sells. One whole side of it black I could still run a dry finger over the sole and have it come up jet black.

Am I missing something- a simpler way to correct this? Did I just buy the wrong plane?

[Frederick Skelly]

Tony,
Use Wenol or some other metal cleaner/polish to get the tarnish off. Then clean off the polish with denatured alcohol. Make sure you get all the polish off (potential silicon contamination).

After cleaning off the polish you used to de-tarnish it, apply a couple good coats of Johnson's Paste Wax to the body of that plane. You'll have to reapply once in a while, like after using/handling it.

Another option that I've read about but have not tried personally, is to brush on a coat of blonde shellac. Maybe someone else can comment on the pros/cons of that. Lee Valley and presumably LN sell various protectives too.

But regardless, this is solvable and I dont think you bought the wrong tool.

Good luck!
Fred

[Robert Hazelwood]

It's just tarnish and shouldn't take long to remove with a polish or with a fine scotchbrite pad. My LN 4 is iron, but the lever cap is bronze and I've found it easy to remove the tarnish. You'll need to remove the metal swarf afterwards with acetone, mineral spirits, etc., to avoid marking a surface. I have to scotchbrite my iron LN regularly due to surface rust from fingerprints, so its no improvement in maintenance really, although it won't leave marks on wood. But at least you don't have to worry about pitting when you're not using the plane for prolonged periods, so I think bronze was actually the right choice. If used regularly I imagine the sole will stay clean enough not to leave marks, and the rest can tarnish as much as it wants.

[bridger berdel]

the tarnish removal method left over from the bronze age (still works, too! ) is to cut a lemon in half, sprinkle salt on the exposed cut end of the lemon and scrub the bronze with that.

you'll probably want to remove the steel parts first, and wash off the salty lemon juice when you're done. follow with paste wax, as per below.




Tony,
Use Wenol or some other metal cleaner/polish to get the tarnish off. Then clean off the polish with denatured alcohol. Make sure you get all the polish off (potential silicon contamination).

After cleaning off the polish you used to de-tarnish it, apply a couple good coats of Johnson's Paste Wax to the body of that plane. You'll have to reapply once in a while, like after using/handling it.

Another option that I've read about but have not tried personally, is to brush on a coat of blonde shellac. Maybe someone else can comment on the pros/cons of that. Lee Valley and presumably LN sell various protectives too.

But regardless, this is solvable and I dont think you bought the wrong tool.

Good luck!
Fred

[Tony Wilkins]

Thanks for those. Called LN as well and they recommended a maroon scotch brite pad.

[Derek Cohen]

Tony, I think that there is a simple solution: use the plane regularly! I have a bronze #3 and I have never experienced any marks on wood surfaces. Obviously, my plane is not allowed to tarnish on the sole - the wood polishes it regularly!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Fournier]

Some warm up strokes to get the feel back and your plan is ready again too.

[Tony Wilkins]

How effective is wax at keeping the tarnish from returning?

i hate to admit it but I've been wanting to try one of the Veritas custom planes. I've been toying with the idea of selling a plane and buying one. I'm not sure if I want to be talked out of it or in to it.

[Lee Schierer]

Tony, Back in 1967 my father had a custom set of silverware made of solid bronze in Thailand that has some type of protective coating or process that prevents tarnish. This dinner service set gets used at best once or twice a year and many pieces are handled and of course washed after use, yet it shows little if any sign of tarnish after 49 years. I don't believe that is lacquer because there is no signs of wear or damage after all these years and every piece that has been used is just as bright and shiney as the pieces that have seen little if any use. I did some google searching, but could not find any reference to what might have been used, so I really don't have any idea what the finish process was.

[Mel Fulks]

I bet the metal is brass ,not bronze. And probably has some lead in it. I was referring to Tony's post. The stuff Lee mentioned sounds like bronze. We have a pair of bronze candlesticks that are not tarnished and I polished them about 1980 the color has darkened some but they are still quite shiny .

[Tony Wilkins]

I bet the metal is brass ,not bronze. And probably has some lead in it. I was referring to Tony's post. The stuff Lee mentioned sounds like bronze. We have a pair of bronze candlesticks that are not tarnished and I polished them about 1980 the color has darkened some but they are still quite shiny .

lie-Nielsen uses what they call Maganese Bronze.

[Mel Fulks]

Thanks,Tony. I just googled and saw that is also called yellow brass. I know there are some here who know much more than I about alloys. But since bronze is traditionally copper and tin and brass copper and zinc I see no good reason to have an alloy known both as brass and bronze.

[Kees Heiden]

Tony, in your situation, wooden planes would be ideal! Nor worries about rust or tarnish. Just keep the blade oily/greasy.

[Tony Wilkins]

Tony, in your situation, wooden planes would be ideal! Nor worries about rust or tarnish. Just keep the blade oily/greasy.

I'm keeping my eyes open for a vintage wooden fore plane. I have an Ohio Tools wooden jointer in pretty good shape and a wonderful cofin smoother. I use them a lot but there are just times I prefer the metal ones with the adjusters.

I have even thought about making a wooden plane or two. I bought Will Anderson's video on making an 18th century jointer plane. I haven't finished it yet but I need to see if I can do it without investing in a set of floats. I also have thought about getting Scott Meeks video but not sure how much fun laminated plane bodies would be without firing up the band saw.

[Kees Heiden]

I'm like you with a set of metal and a set of wooden planes. Sometimes I really like an adjuster! Especially for smoothing.

And I made my set of wooden planes with just one float, the long triangular sidefloat. It is really helpfull when sharpened. I wished for a bed float too, but got along with just the sidefloat, chisels and a scraper-chisel (a 90 degree bevel chisel). For cutting the abutments I made a flush cut saw, I guess an edge float would work better but this is what I have.

Laminated planes, meuh.... :D

[george wilson]

When I made the surveyor's compass for David Brinkley,I wanted to lacquer it. To do this,,after polishing the brass,it was necessary to remove ALL of the polish and black crud from the brass. If I did not do this,the lacquer coating would just come loose like a piece of Saran wrap.

I used stoddard solvent to clean the compass's brass parts. I took hours just trying to get the black crud to stop oozing out of the metal. It was just incredible how much black crud came out of the brass. I cleaned that brass and re cleaned it for several hours before the black stuff finally stopped coming out of the brass.

Stoddard solvent is just extra refined paint thinner,and is the same solvent that dry cleaners use to clean your non washable clothes. The furniture conservators and other conservators used it to clean various other items that they worked on.

You are having the same problem that I had: your bronze plane has no telling how much black crud still in the pores of the metal. It will finally come out,but you will really have to keep at it to get it all out of your plane. After you finally get it all out,the plane will stop leaving dark streaks on your wood. Once you do finally get the crud out of your plane,I'd recommend that you do not use metal polish on the bronze again.

Any brass or bronze you ever polish will also have this incredible amount of black stuff in the pores of the metal. The difference is: You will not be sliding your door knocker,or other brass/bronze item over wood. Nor will you be trying to get metal lacquer to stick to it.

[Mel Fulks]

George, most interesting. I don't think I would ever have figured out the polish was that imbeded in the brass. Pretty sure I would have been blaming "lead content".

[george wilson]

Sit down with some ordinary paint thinner. You don't really need it more refined for this job. I guarantee you'll be amazed about how much black will ooze out of the metal,over and over again. Just keep at it. May take a few hours. Don't contaminate your gallon of thinner with the black crud.

[Tony Wilkins]

Got my sole 'somewhat' polished smoothing a white pine doe's foot on my bench. Is wax - renaissance wax for instance - the best way to keep tarnish from reoccurring if I can't use it for a little bit?

[george wilson]

I suppose the wax would be o.k.. For longer term protection of UNHANDLED objects,they use a lacquer in Williamsburg. But,a plane is handled,and the lacquer would soon wear off unevenly,and not look nice.