Block Plane Woes

[Bill Adamsen]

Lost my LN Small Block Plane (bronze) on a trim job last week. I'd had it for 20+ years so the loss is distressing.

In the interim I'm using my LN Rabbet Plane, but it drives home how different "small" planes with a 12° cutting angle can feel. Also, I'm a bit terrified I'll hit a pin when planing crown assemblies or other, and I'll have to more than hone the blade which will ruin it for its intended purpose.

Looking at alternatives for a replacement. One of the things I likes about the LN Block was the lack of Norris--type adjuster (fewer parts, simpler setup) to lose, and the assurance that as long as I sharpened or honed correctly and maintained the setup, it cut consistently and beautifully. It was also reasonably light at just 15oz. Note, I have numerous (a reasonable complement of) bench planes so this solution is very purpose driven.

I'm assuming the reasonable alternatives are the somewhat similar Veritas low angle block, or shifting to an adjustable mouth with either the LN 60-1/2 or the Veritas XX60. They both seem a bit "over the top" (especially the latter) for my needs from a complexity and feature perspective. They are all almost double the weight at 800+/- gams versus ~430 grams for the LN Bronze Block. And I suspect that is perhaps the most important consideration. Forty years ago I was thrilled when I bought my first Stanley low angle Bailey and remember that working like a charm.

What is the sense of folks using a small, simple block plane? Am I missing considering important alternatives?

[Patrick Chase]

Lost my LN Small Block Plane (bronze) on a trim job last week. I'd had it for 20+ years so the loss is distressing.

In the interim I'm using my LN Rabbet Plane, but it drives home how different "small" planes with a 12° cutting angle can feel. Also, I'm a bit terrified I'll hit a pin when planing crown assemblies or other, and I'll have to more than hone the blade which will ruin it for its intended purpose.

Looking at alternatives for a replacement. One of the things I likes about the LN Block was the lack of Norris--type adjuster (fewer parts, simpler setup) to lose, and the assurance that as long as I sharpened or honed correctly and maintained the setup, it cut consistently and beautifully. It was also reasonably light at just 15oz. Note, I have numerous (a reasonable complement of) bench planes so this solution is very purpose driven.

I'm assuming the reasonable alternatives are the somewhat similar Veritas low angle block, or shifting to an adjustable mouth with either the LN 60-1/2 or the Veritas XX60. They both seem a bit "over the top" (especially the latter) for my needs from a complexity and feature perspective. They are all almost double the weight at 800+/- gams versus ~430 grams for the LN Bronze Block. And I suspect that is perhaps the most important consideration. Forty years ago I was thrilled when I bought my first Stanley low angle Bailey and remember that working like a charm.

What is the sense of folks using a small, simple block plane? Am I missing considering important alternatives?

The other obvious option for a small fixed-mouth block plane is the Veritas Apron Plane. It has a Norris adjuster, but it's a very nice plane IMO.

The Veritas LA block has an adjustable mouth and is basically equivalent in size and function to the 60-1/2. The XX60s are functionally similar to the LA block but much more refined and expensive. I have the LA block and the apron plane, but not the XX60s.

[Jim Koepke]

I have a few small block planes. My most used is an old Stanley #102. There are also a couple of squirrel tail planes, a small Millers Falls and another no name plane about the same as a Stanley #101.

Search > small block plane < on ebay.

jtk

[george wilson]

I have both the LN 60 1/2 and the LV NX60 block plane,with a PM VII blade. I love them both ! The LV model is a great piece of original, artistic design and function, and the LN is a very improved Stanley from the standpoint of machining tolerances and better materials.

[Ray Selinger]

The Veritas low angle block and a Stanley 60 1/2 are very different. Look at the blade widths. Sorry about your block.

[Dave Cav]

95% of the time I use my Stanley 60 1/2 that is probably older than I am. I'll probably upgrade it with a Hock blade one of these days, but if it's kept sharp and well adjusted it works fine for me. Occasionally I'll use my Veritas Medium Shoulder Plane for block plane duty if it's laying on the bench.

[Mike Henderson]

Just a question: You said you like the bronze LN 102, why are you looking at alternatives? Why not just purchase another bronze LN 102?

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

Just a question: You said you like the bronze LN 102, why are you looking at alternatives? Why not just purchase another bronze LN 102?

Mike

Lie Nielsen stopped making the #102. The current line up includes a contemporary model of the #103. Though the OP did suggest he doesn't want the extra bits offered with the #103.

Note: it appears the above is in error. Sorry for all the confusion it has caused.

jtk

[Warren Weckesser]

Lie Nielsen stopped making the #102.

The Lie-Nielsen web site currently has this: https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/block-planes/small-block-planes?node=4072
Is that the block plane you are talking about?

[Patrick Chase]

The Veritas low angle block and a Stanley 60 1/2 are very different. Look at the blade widths. Sorry about your block.

The 60-1/2 is 6" long with a 12 deg bed and 1.5" blade.

The Veritas Low-Angle Block is 6-1/2" long with a 12 deg bed and 1.625" blade.

I guess that "very" different is in the eye of the beholder, but I'd personally lump those in the same class/category, the 1/8" width difference notwithstanding.

[Jim Koepke]

The Lie-Nielsen web site currently has this: https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/block-planes/small-block-planes?node=4072
Is that the block plane you are talking about?

The original #102 didn't have an adjuster. The current model in your link is more akin to the #103.

The OP stated:


One of the things I likes about the LN Block was the lack of Norris--type adjuster (fewer parts, simpler setup) to lose

That is my reason for looking at alternatives. Currently there is one of the original LN #102s listed on ebay. It is located in the United Kingdom.

jtk

[Andy Nichols]

If you don't mind waiting LN will make many of their discontinued models, might be worth a call....

Regards,
Andy

mos maiorum

[Bill Adamsen]

Just a question: You said you like the bronze LN 102, why are you looking at alternatives? Why not just purchase another bronze LN 102?

Mike

I just wanted to see if in the past 20 years something new had come out that I should consider. I really like the LN 102 and the fact that it is solid (compact) yet weighs so much less than the 60-1/2 style planes means that is likely the direction I will go.

Edit: I realize from reading the additional posts that I can't get a 102 ... but a slightly different 103. Makes the selection more complicated.

[Bill Adamsen]

The current small block plane listed on the LN site under "block plane" is the 102. And looks like the one I had.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/small-block-planes

There is a description at the Highland Tools web-site ... "The Lie-Nielsen #103 Standard-Angle Block Plane (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/lie-nielsenno103bronzestandardangleblockplane.aspx) is the brother to the #102 Low-Angle Block Plane (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/lie-nielsenno102bronzelow-angleblockplane.aspx). The #103 plane has the iron bedded at 20 degrees, which along with the 25-degree bevel that comes on the iron, presents a 45-degree cutting angle to the wood (being a bevel-up plane)."

I don't see the 103 listed at the Lie Nielsen web-site.

[Ray Selinger]

Patrick, no. The irons on my wartime Stanley 60 1/2 and the late 1960s English Stanley 60 1/2 are both 1 3/8", My Stanley 103 is 1 5/16 " In my hand, those are big differences from the 1 5/8" block planes. BTW the Record 60 1/2 is a 1 5/8".

[Patrick Chase]

Patrick, no. The irons on my wartime Stanley 60 1/2 and the late 1960s English Stanley 60 1/2 are both 1 3/8", My Stanley 103 is 1 5/16 " In my hand, those are big differences from the 1 5/8" block planes. BTW the Record 60 1/2 is a 1 5/8".

As with many things Stanley, it depends on the year. http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan9.htm.

The ones I've seen were apparently earlier types.

[Mike Henderson]

Lie Nielsen stopped making the #102. The current line up includes a contemporary model of the #103. Though the OP did suggest he doesn't want the extra bits offered with the #103.

jtk

I have the LN 102 and it looks exactly like the one on LN's web site. Looks to me like LN still offers the 102 - says $115. I, also, don't see a 103 on LN's site.

Mike

[Glen Canaday]

I have a Millers Falls 56, extremely similar to the Stanley 60 1/2. It has the 12 degree pitch, adjustable mouth, and screw adjuster. The irons are decent steel, and the weight feels negligible in my hand. It pretty much just fits.

I have the 7" #57 as well, but the 56 has both the smaller width and length. They are also often found in spectacular condition. Get a 56 and not a 56B as they can also use the Stanley irons if you'd like to replace one later. The B models use a different adjuster.

They're a contender alternative if you're open to vintage items in the $25-$35 range.

[Derek Cohen]

Lie Nielsen stopped producing the #103 block plane. They continue to sell the #102 in bronze. I believe that they also dropped the iron version of the #102.

If the lost plane was a #102, and this was a favourite user, then simply replace it. I have the #103. And it is one I pick up much of the time for easing edges. The higher bed is better in this regard. This may be replicated in the #102 by honing at a higher angle. My money is on another #102 (and I have both the LN #60 1/2 and the Veritas NX60 block planes - great for the workshop but too large and heavy for an apron pocket).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

I have the LN 102 and it looks exactly like the one on LN's web site. Looks to me like LN still offers the 102 - says $115. I, also, don't see a 103 on LN's site.

Mike

My mistake, the small block plan the OP mentions did not have an adjuster from what can be derived from his post.

The original Stanley #102 didn't have a blade adjuster. That is where my mistake originates.

There are small block planes without adjusters available on ebay in used condition.

There are also a lot listed at Lee Valley.

jtk

[Chris Fournier]

If I could have only one small block plane it would be my 102 hands down. Get another!

[john zulu]

I have the Veritas Block plane(s). For trim job I found LN 102 uncomparable till today. I still have my LV block planes when heavier cuts are needed.

[don wilwol]

My favorite apron plane is the Sargent #206. It sounds like it has all the features you like in your original LN.

[Bill Adamsen]

The other obvious option for a small fixed-mouth block plane is the Veritas Apron Plane. It has a Norris adjuster, but it's a very nice plane IMO

Thanks Patrick. I found this plane via search - interestingly it was overlooked when searching via navigation on the Lee Valley site - though I see now that it is there. That is a worthy contender and I like the blade replacement (and ordering) options. It is the lightest of the "premium maker" blocks at 14 oz (~400 grams).

Regarding the 102, LN doesn't callout the type of steel though on the Highland web-site Lee Laird indicates the following: "The blade is made from A2 Tool Steel hardened to Rockwell 60-62."

Apologies for moving this thread back up to the top.

[lowell holmes]

Thanks Patrick. I found this plane via search - interestingly it was overlooked when searching via navigation on the Lee Valley site - though I see now that it is there. That is a worthy contender and I like the blade replacement (and ordering) options. It is the lightest of the "premium maker" blocks at 14 oz (~400 grams).

Regarding the 102, LN doesn't callout the type of steel though on the Highland web-site Lee Laird indicates the following: "The blade is made from A2 Tool Steel hardened to Rockwell 60-62."

Apologies for moving this thread back up to the top.

I have the apron plane. I use it a lot. It lives in the pocket of my apron. It does cross grain quite well.