What Joinery Would You Use on This?

[Paul Richard]

Hey All,

I'm making a mission style frame for a buddy that will house a stained glass pane. Because the top rail is so narrow I can't use a biscuit to join it to the stile. I have a dowling jig too, but those things can be a little fiddley.

What would you guys do here?

Thanks!

- Paul

PS - First time posting pictures, so please be patient with me if I screwed it up.
350265350266350267350268

[Prashun Patel]

If it's cut already, then I'd do my best with the dowels.

If not yet cut, then consider a half-lap joint.

[Earl McLain]

If already cut, pocket hole screws would be an option as well. (though they seem to telegraph their presence more in cherry than any other wood I've put them in--not sure why but they tend to leave a dimple on the front side).

earl

[Paul Richard]

Great minds think alike. :-). I actually made a prototype using half laps out of plywood. They plan to hang this in a window, so both sides will be visible. He didn't like the look of the back of the half lap.

And, yes, it is cut already.

[Don Orr]

Do you have a way to make a mortise on each piece and us a loose tennon, maybe made by you to fit the situation? Kind of a large version of a dowel.

[Prashun Patel]

Dowels, then.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned a Domino yet.

Doc

[Prashun Patel]

If he was considering a biscuit, he must not own a Domino.

[Lee Schierer]

If you have a drill press you can drill a 3/8" diameter counter bore into the stile and then add a wood screw or two into the rail on each joint. Plug the holes for the counter bore with plugs cut from scraps of cherry. If you orient the grain in the plugs to align with the grain in the stiles the plugs will be all but invisible when you sand and finish. Noting will be seen from the room or from outside.

If you don't have a plug cutter, buy one as you will find lots of use for it in the future.

[pat warner]

Dovetailed (14° ) 1/2 lap. (http://patwarner.com/images/dovetailed-lap.jpg)

[Buck Williams]

If you have a drill press you can drill a 3/8" diameter counter bore into the stile and then add a wood screw or two into the rail on each joint. Plug the holes for the counter bore with plugs cut from scraps of cherry. If you orient the grain in the plugs to align with the grain in the stiles the plugs will be all but invisible when you sand and finish. Noting will be seen from the room or from outside.

If you don't have a plug cutter, buy one as you will find lots of use for it in the future.

Good $15.00 solution, that will come in handy in the future, not necessarily "fine" woodworking, but a quick solid solution. Great idea

[Rod Sheridan]

Hey All,

I'm making a mission style frame for a buddy that will house a stained glass pane. Because the top rail is so narrow I can't use a biscuit to join it to the stile. I have a dowling jig too, but those things can be a little fiddley.

What would you guys do here?

Thanks!

- Paul

PS - First time posting pictures, so please be patient with me if I screwed it up.
350265350266350267350268

Hello Paul, I always use mortise and tenon joints on this sort of frame, strong, invisible, traditional.

Another choice would be a bridle joint, also very strong and traditional, with an exposed joint to show your workmanship.......Regards, Rod

[Matt Day]

What size biscuit is that in the picture? It looks like a 20 which is the biggest. There are smaller ones which should work.

[Van Huskey]

I like the idea of a bridle joint and also think a smaller biscuit would work.


Funny from just reading the title I was betting my answer was "Domino" and indeed that would be what I would use if no joinery was to be visible.

[John TenEyck]

You need one of these:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/K0Dm7RrQiPyzGOALU4AbuHT-XN7zx4zLVhFADbYlEBAYuF3JEmpiuSsUdcawEKGTnaJo-hWBQVnLwIA_Q-mIHavY0xN7aZB4CE13ambbXNkK0ZKyYGUHb3xJE_YRu5mn_3DW uemb56EqnQ2nb1YENQh54jEjTgs-shS8EPH98xMWFlrjmqlX0gZyHLVOGwpBTxPY9oo7qRWsxzYAMZ NRgK3oVBdZQ4lz7Jnwu5uenDl0XhRkufGXUwbVMalvGRe63sIj I7rgSBdbM53_24LWGbxcpfiY5VFOU085H9dq0LYKPy0MrXUhCI F4qWS5W0P9Hiw9A_YudfFFi_xRqGG13BE2r0y6c52NYLtDifmH PaJojM2ci3vXp4BQ6mFKbu_ms65IRfw8PGEoKZ7dWZ5OvQmki9 hejPryX6Q_6tfr0n35_Ks71LcFr6rEjRqxmiFnw32YR_khJiVt _GA96q3uHsI2Vk_aHnlpvf1PuUi4SoJAsaNLfbzwqjtx3rXlCD vahCqmkeKVaTfiJK1yFAHJKWUzbQXhsxMMSaPOlfgYx0uUITsn DadfAWTk9Zb2IxTAgGWctotmDmqLi3HlKnV4HZ4O6kgKrtEAAq x5MAYKZluDO4SLixYcrA=w640-h480-no

because it makes any version of these simple:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TxGrwzejGAluKYnCXG9RGNmVzLd4kjPQzEecpw759zDpaBB_bg 9ML9MV-nbjAt80w2TbK9AHNuQgngR3lDMMZbMKM2fNNblM8ogVtLaRj8n bAvEQs9i994woL9dlnnihgUNCwZ0WTqmk_8eUx-CAHHvUeoCbkOYgINtYdMHB8s-nQcBz4R2NfKN0IBt4Axag8rufzXvtxfa11Gzy_C-7OzvHnRbfR6yHvhVzOHAbaHg0RkZvruStyk4BpQVi3Cip4xwPO wdsOCf9UjoMK1ljgOIDuSoMWF5_y2nrgI-Chdkecq3ASPyeZrGXZUO-2VRHr94179eOymPwWqEJfyFW7tSXPh6l4mtsTqIBNu2oGE8QZk hPQ35_0DYthJguqu26taToIsUCFSaLj1HDsZPW0wzsXLkuufMG KKLbSdQ8G4ikeX2-nrbI86xcBLaB7YAK4FuQkJE-8dm6tFJRwc-vFzoAbE7WjB5yCZbmIWhNOFQNN1htC1dW-4g_am1_hvQm1mLgNk5zGucLbqG7yH-HzjZ40uoTYCELK_YzDlujWwUpglGHLliW3ewwIILWp4LrdVeVX j3X1SJbahbZqVWyQe4Ar7I8oU6O4uNFOjXgAEX_xMTVjKUoJg= w640-h480-no


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Er-sEJnD9vbgzvtUjQ5Jxd1_Ue8bB0RI_ZOcOjq5kfrHZKpE-gqA5IZFRD3Le7_9vu8z8MYioTbnoZelohK-2s9QTFe1PMddi6A9w-LcdL2ku5VLJO-46-76nwoZU9NpG7qfHINlO_fySSBnc5Nbjf61LoW1qhZkpZIpk8f1 ZgRP5Xc_fBdJGQN22U1LHpxmmsoqR6XNesUkAERBNTBi-719WsEdlpNf3HASp0vn75-KTymnkVO2keuuhnZkFgkh4DBlzlHfepTU1BaE0G7YrIPcyaU53 1OVfY8UpzbKLb1RjG57aMQYVUzZgQCmQsB0ESLs5JcplcyodhJ 0kKsRDeRjpNGEt1yWA5uAz2qJkdWd3oSowlaohRGrHtVobtl5W r3lTqZQQqwgYpY7avj-CZnhR9Exl6goPXDg7u7qkIRg6nDaMDaoM3Gx60XrXgMY8dL3zb SGJ7ZmamdcQaN1ODL3-mHCTb7Hen6fkGqWFYo3xWr-aYvCKIJgY3mOpjFMmnttszvcuMLUG1ZDw556P7yFnQ1kuRuvba Q4rTZibxUkT8rBzLlfXzksxz0DqIuVmVtQH7QQmgsEaWRfS2IP-vqcdx8FToI1BeBvLx2Cr_eJtawxHClMJA=w640-h480-no

or:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vdlqdcJlfAqrF_Uq5UsuVXj9XiFijXv4COU2o1G1PcgTDhmQWj ItsobLqHPnwTgs68AHBIwB8geAs-zZC-Yhz2nX9Q9m8nkXpwwOTeFuezU_PAFlBXNlpACLfYKCkv6iL5_h 9-hKVAvZKm9dhYIwfbMcKpxW798SaxPkEpAbjRkpu4-J_i_aMUkERym_wioeB3EN6yerVx9F3rFXqb31-b_KY3XJCN3RajKIWKYpXW1u-QJ1z1HgPnWeLtQunZhEOaxrymVCBp97jqYo0zAiEtOsUoM0afX UQrbEdqgQzTwcn-19eviOBxrV7uImBSGEUBwkDRPfL9-vmZ-jXURx2UO2OpJ9h6MC2tvacXR6eVS0o7h41B5efCKzSQhPA-d2o7b9lHI1tZ3xVYHn-s7Mm-x4ajP-e4wb5vBWZPOYPHmO5jgCnxr2ZBCVxR7vNAqrQZm6ylUzqNPEhv qWLqaGoTp0DnjNUDou2zVK6jNsQOcPzhWc-BJRV6ttY_aAt6m4C9tVITZr2q3-j99LsNsnIeCvyw33g7BuxDMlrLx1rGw8InQgilMTv1U1bmbH0q zwIKHnwK8YkjWb6NtjtFnJWitUUdHPy-rSYE0NozB2EtoIvU2lpJNc=w640-h480-no

or maybe some really big ones for an entry door:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9HjeIZDX8zvwIwmbjl8rwk387Fs_4hf9BIQwrh5DSWsljmpsSo VgRSISTlS0A2WxS_7rTLvnkj68l-9JY0MkFy1tVY89onJVFlTm4X9Z9Lj4jntvKVMIjJhUPAkVWTeD CNY8Fklw-EiCokUGT0nuI05yDJK8G-3cKKhPoBYEeDU_JI_aCoTWncoAY3SggE70t6IYWhfRvUy_RK5d n0krxex0LXgEJgT6IJ9qzx7C_gK7Irvbgru_ih4bSy2K1jephu jedeiCB39WQW4-Z5nSMzkVEoYyE5pM0iLo3MPtitA_YMpZJ3j5j0MQOvNbs3kSC1 ipY9qJ1jXqltHKPZva-7fO_jSfPZ85qXCtIZSdjWpJPZoizQoUqT11fIR7-87u1Ezh3-76J5zovUkiErBow-6mHh4UnAVeAbZd6vGgxuz2PwTndAEQX0TcuKNR8_7-0_oer9810eIAHkdpmq85rBRc--Bm-OvTrqeYyTvycsm2u5u3i0OvJX7aPzlmVSqtp9hfnalxIy734Ua ahMX1mnOQyTck7fAPw9s90PSrPkJl-aLzSbmgsuOOw98IurRBhDNIGbN_uUJwIExOsAjLQN8zHdGoX9S Jr3gj-Et7oq4xf80gYu5YJNH888Yu8PAiqUatGi-obB0us5gEZ8h6gE07BgEX18nThjp2hz4OKsI=w838-h628-no

John

[Jim Dwight]

If you have a plunge router, a loose tenon would be the best. You can use a spiral upcut bit or a straight bit with a bottom cutter. I usually order router bits from MLCS. They have good prices and free shipping. You would need to use a jig and/or fence to cut the straight slots. Definitely more involved than other options but stronger doors and a good skill for the future, however.

Through screws plugged would also work and are quick and simple. Pocket screws will also hold fine, they are just ugly on the back side. Maybe if you plugged the holes with cherry...

[Paul Richard]

Do you have a way to make a mortise on each piece and us a loose tennon, maybe made by you to fit the situation? Kind of a large version of a dowel.

I do have a mortiser and could certainly make my own loose tennon. I did not even think of that. Thanks!

One of the things I love about biscuits is that you have some "play" in terms of getting things lined up. I guess I could do effectively the same thing with the mortise approach, depending on how I make the tennon.

[Paul Richard]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned a Domino yet.

Doc
I don't have a domino cutter. :-(

[Paul Richard]

If you have a drill press you can drill a 3/8" diameter counter bore into the stile and then add a wood screw or two into the rail on each joint. Plug the holes for the counter bore with plugs cut from scraps of cherry. If you orient the grain in the plugs to align with the grain in the stiles the plugs will be all but invisible when you sand and finish. Noting will be seen from the room or from outside.

If you don't have a plug cutter, buy one as you will find lots of use for it in the future.
This is a great idea! Very simple, plus it's an excuse to buy a plug cutter. :-) Going to order a plug cutter.

[Paul Richard]

What size biscuit is that in the picture? It looks like a 20 which is the biggest. There are smaller ones which should work.

It's a 0 biscuit.

[Mark Wooden]

I have a PC biscuit joiner that does the size FF biscuits and have used it in situations like this with good results. Another thing I have done is to cut a 3/32" slot with a router bit made for biscuits and cut the ends off the biscuit to fit.
Lots of ways to skin this cat.....