Bandsaw/Hand Plane milling question

[Alex Gauthier]

Hey all,

I'm still very early on in the learning curve and I have used some machines in the past (jointer/planer,ts, shaper) but now that I'm building out my own tools I don't want to spend the money on all those machines so I've been studying hand tools and have procured a few planes, chisels, and various other things. I've learned to sharpen them well (I think) but I struggle a little with time investment.

I was considering getting a planer at some point but the ones worth having seem to be really expensive so I've kind of gone back to the idea of milling stock with hand tools instead. I was reading somewhere about how one can use a bandsaw speed this process up quite a bit and then nudge it into perfection with a plane or two.

Could someone kindly explain how that would be done?

[Jim Koepke]

My bandsaw is often used to resize a piece of wood from a 12x to a 6x or whatever is needed for a particular project. A hand plane is then used to remove the saw marks.

Sometimes a 1X, 2X or 4X is resawn to thinner pieces. A hand plane is also great for removing saw marks on these pieces.

The size plane used is determined by the size of the work piece and the preference of the user.

jtk

[Chuck Nickerson]

A band saw can rip wood to width and resaw to thickness. These are the two prep steps some HT woodworkers find most ornery.

[Mark AJ Allen]

As a primarily hand tools guy, I find the bandsaw is still worth the expense. As poster above mention, it does the ripping AND the resawing, which is most definitely one of the more heavy tasks for using handtools. The other thing it will do nice for you is cut curves and shapes in thicker boards, which requires a whole different set of hand tools than ripping and resawing would. I'm willing to say that if you don't mind some dust, noise and setups, the bandsaw could possibly replace some hand tools operations for you, depending on the size and kind of work you do of course.

[steven c newman]

I use mine because with the COPD I have, I am not going to get very far using just a handsaw to resaw and to do rips. Mine does a decent enough job, but....I need to plane off the saw marks, and to flatten out the "waves" where the blade tends to go off track...and then back on. I size the handplane used to match the length or width of the work being done.

[Alex Gauthier]

Thanks for your answers so far. I think I should have been a little more detailed in my question.

I guess that my perception is that a band saw blade being flexible and affected by tension of stock moving through wouldn't result in the resulting milled stock being square. I have no issue adding a bandsaw and based on what you guys have already said and what I've read elsewhere I'll probably get one. I just was hoping I could depend on it to do most of the grunt work of milling the stock. If all I need to do is plane off the saw marks that would be spectacular.

[Ray Selinger]

Bandsaws can do amazing things and do them well. The but is the set-up, there have been some books written on just that.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Alex

These pictures were taken a goodly number of years ago. THe bandsaw is a very basic 14" model. I have since upgraded it to a more powerful machine. Still, it did a pretty good job and, in fact, I am currently using the same technique to resaw boards for kitchen doors I am building in Hard Maple.

There are no "shoulds" or "should nots", no rules that must be followed in your shop ... specifically, no betrayal of some code when it comes to choosing tools. Get the ones that you find useful and fit with your budget. In my shop I find a bandsaw especially important.

Rough sawn She-oak. THis will be used for a box.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Preparing%20a%20board%20without%20a%20thicknesser_ html_m5e7fd2bc.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Preparing%20a%20board%20without%20a%20thicknesser_ html_m2ca80244.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Preparing%20a%20board%20without%20a%20thicknesser_ html_m4454074a.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Preparing%20a%20board%20without%20a%20thicknesser_ html_161cebf3.jpg

The box made ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Preparing%20a%20board%20without%20a%20thicknesser_ html_9bf3573.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John K Jordan]

I guess that my perception is that a band saw blade being flexible and affected by tension of stock moving through wouldn't result in the resulting milled stock being square. I have no issue adding a bandsaw and based on what you guys have already said and what I've read elsewhere I'll probably get one. I just was hoping I could depend on it to do most of the grunt work of milling the stock. If all I need to do is plane off the saw marks that would be spectacular.

Alex,

If the bandsaw is properly set up and the tension right, it will cut incredibly straight and square. If the tension is right the blade will be incredibly stiff. If you get a vertical bowing then the tension is probably too low or the blade is dull on one side or maybe both. Also, the guides need to be adjusted correctly or you might as well split the wood with a froe. (Just kidding!)

Once a friend brought over a 12' long 2x12 of Douglas fir, if I remember correctly. Using my 14" Delta bandsaw with a riser block we resawed that board into four pieces so he could skin a rough beam in his house. No bowing, no problems. A few light passes through the planer for all 4 boards and he went home happy.

That said, before I got the saw set up correctly I had terrible problems with the blade wandering from left to right, bowed cuts on thick green stock, crazy drift, and other problems. I bought bandsaw books by Mark Duginske and Lonnie Bird, shimmed the wheels to make them coplaner, learned to adjust the guides correctly, and most importantly, set the tension correctly. The tension marks on these and most bandsaws are horrible, even the 18" bandsaw I use the most now. I got a quality tension gauge from Iturra Design, handy for all my bandsaws, even the sawmill. My bandsaw problems have been close to nothing for the last decade+.

BTW, one huge problem people have is trying to use a blade that is too wide for the saw. This ties back to insufficient tension. I used to try to use wide blades myself, 3/4" and even 1" on the 14" saw. No, no, no. I found it a lot easier to use a narrower blade since the tension needed is so much less. These days I do almost all of my bandsawing with 1/2" 3-tpi or 4-tpi blades, mostly cutting thicker wood (up to 12"), green and dry, for woodturning. If I do thinner work where I want a smoother cut I use one with more teeth/inch.

Also, the blade needs to be sharp. I usually sharpen my blades 2-3 times before getting out a new one. I use a Dremel tool to sharpen. It takes a while for the bigger saw but saves me a lot of money on blades.

JKJ

[Prashun Patel]

It's possible to do what you are hoping, but it's not as simple as planing off marks. A bandsaw capable of resawing straight enough and tall enough will cost more than the thickness planer you could buy.

AN average benchtop planer will cost less than 500. That's about the starting point for a reasonable bandsaw new or old.

[Eric Schmid]

If the stock going in is square and straight, your resawn boards should come out square and straight. Better/bigger bandsaws will improve results. Tuning your bandsaw is also critical to getting consistent results. The variation from optimal results is directly proportional to these factors, combined with the skill of the operator.

With a well designed and tuned saw you still want to start with straight/square stock; at least two sides.

On the flip side there is going to be a lot of hand plane work if the saw is not up to the task (or the material isn't joined before). I recently threw an 8x8 rough sawn beam up on the saw, being too lazy or impatient to do all of the planing work required first. Needless to say there was a lot of work to do after the 3x8 slabs came out the back side. Fortunately I had plenty of machinery to do the heavy lifting so that I could enjoy finishing with hand tools.

[Derek Cohen]

I'd rather have a bandsaw than a thicknesser (planer in the USA). Much greater versatility. Incidentally, the bandsaw in the photo above is a generic Chinese 14" machine. It was about the same price as a thicknesser/planer. That was some years ago and I have since upgraded to a Hammer 4400. Nevertheless, the 14" did a perfectly decent job, albeit a little slower and with less resaw capacity than the Hammer.

If one already owns a bandsaw, given a choice of thicknesser vs a wide jointer (10" or greater), I'd go for the jointer every time. A jointer will make short work of removing cupping and levelling a board - which takes up much of the time when jointing by hand. It is a simple matter to resaw a jointed board and then smooth off with handplanes. A few months ago, Pop Wood published back an article I wrote on this. Having noted this, my recommendation is to avoid power jointers under 8" - aim your budget at a combo jointer-planer. Wait until you can afford one.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dan Barr]

The bandsaw gives you so many options! If you're willing to joint/smooth after rip/resaw then definitely get the bandsaw! Planer/thicknesser is only going to do one job. Bandsaw can do many.

[Alex Gauthier]

Incredibly detailed and useful answer. Thank you so much.



Alex,

If the bandsaw is properly set up and the tension right, it will cut incredibly straight and square. If the tension is right the blade will be incredibly stiff. If you get a vertical bowing then the tension is probably too low or the blade is dull on one side or maybe both. Also, the guides need to be adjusted correctly or you might as well split the wood with a froe. (Just kidding!)

Once a friend brought over a 12' long 2x12 of Douglas fir, if I remember correctly. Using my 14" Delta bandsaw with a riser block we resawed that board into four pieces so he could skin a rough beam in his house. No bowing, no problems. A few light passes through the planer for all 4 boards and he went home happy.

That said, before I got the saw set up correctly I had terrible problems with the blade wandering from left to right, bowed cuts on thick green stock, crazy drift, and other problems. I bought bandsaw books by Mark Duginske and Lonnie Bird, shimmed the wheels to make them coplaner, learned to adjust the guides correctly, and most importantly, set the tension correctly. The tension marks on these and most bandsaws are horrible, even the 18" bandsaw I use the most now. I got a quality tension gauge from Iturra Design, handy for all my bandsaws, even the sawmill. My bandsaw problems have been close to nothing for the last decade+.

BTW, one huge problem people have is trying to use a blade that is too wide for the saw. This ties back to insufficient tension. I used to try to use wide blades myself, 3/4" and even 1" on the 14" saw. No, no, no. I found it a lot easier to use a narrower blade since the tension needed is so much less. These days I do almost all of my bandsawing with 1/2" 3-tpi or 4-tpi blades, mostly cutting thicker wood (up to 12"), green and dry, for woodturning. If I do thinner work where I want a smoother cut I use one with more teeth/inch.

Also, the blade needs to be sharp. I usually sharpen my blades 2-3 times before getting out a new one. I use a Dremel tool to sharpen. It takes a while for the bigger saw but saves me a lot of money on blades.

JKJ

[Alex Gauthier]

I believe this is the direction I'll go, actually.



I'd rather have a bandsaw than a thicknesser (planer in the USA). Much greater versatility. Incidentally, the bandsaw in the photo above is a generic Chinese 14" machine. It was about the same price as a thicknesser/planer. That was some years ago and I have since upgraded to a Hammer 4400. Nevertheless, the 14" did a perfectly decent job, albeit a little slower and with less resaw capacity than the Hammer.

If one already owns a bandsaw, given a choice of thicknesser vs a wide jointer (10" or greater), I'd go for the jointer every time. A jointer will make short work of removing cupping and levelling a board - which takes up much of the time when jointing by hand. It is a simple matter to resaw a jointed board and then smooth off with handplanes. A few months ago, Pop Wood published back an article I wrote on this. Having noted this, my recommendation is to avoid power jointers under 8" - aim your budget at a combo jointer-planer. Wait until you can afford one.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

I have recently added a bandsaw to my repertoire and it has enabled me to take on many tasks I would be weary of using only handsaws; namely resawing wide stock.

I joint a face, and edge then mark with a gauge and cut to the gauge line, exactly like I do with handsaws but this time employing my electric pit sawyers ;)

[steven c newman]

IF someone is close enough to my shop, I could use a bit of help with a few resaws. Then I can get down a hand plane or two and finish things up. I am limited to lifting less than 10 pounds right now. Between hauling the board to the bandsaw, and pushing it through.....weight limit will be exceeded very quickly. Until I get the Med Clearence, I am stuck just sitting here.

Oh,BTW cross cutting a board would involve placing a knee on the board......right now, that isn't going to happen...

[Robert Engel]

I use hand tools as much as I can, but the milling tasks are just too time consuming as you've discovered a planer and jointer can become must-have machines. I have an 8" helical head jointer and wish I had a 12". I have a 20" jointer and really don't need it a 15" would suffice for 95% of what I do.

Start looking for used machines you may come upon a good value.

IMO a bandsaw cannot replace a tablesaw. I don't even know how one could use a BS to prepare rough stock for hand planing. I don't like ripping wood on a bandsaw because too much tendency to follow the grain.

For resawing IMO you need to make a hefty investment in a reasonably good machine with at least 9" of resaw capacity. They are not cheap machines. I have a 19" with almost 12" resaw capacity which is practically a dedicated resaw machine now. My little 12" is quite handy for the quick cutoffs and curved patterns (Its a Jet and I picked it up at a yard sale for $125) but I would never even attempt a resaw on it.

[steven c newman]

The last several of the projects i have done this past year, started out as resaws on a Sears Craftsman 12" Bandsaw. Used a 1/2" wide blade @ 6 tpi. Have sawn Oak, Walnut, Cherry, and Pine. I then go over each slab with hand planes to "dress" them up proper. What I have, works for what I do. That is all I ask of my tools.

[James Pallas]

If you are milling by hand a bandsaw is a great tool. Once you get use to using it and free handing it will do a lot for you. Since you can begin a cut anywhere along a board you can do things like cut the belly off of a curved board or cut the ends off of an inside curve. Beats planing 3/4 inches of a 3 foot belly. You should buy yourself a bandsaw book and get lots of ideas about the versatility of a bandsaw. I don't have a jointer or planer anymore I would like to but no room. I still have my bandsaw, an old 14" delta, and would think about giving up woodworking without it.
Jim

[john zulu]

Alex,

I was in the same position as you late last year. I have heard so many times we should get a jointer then a planer. Most of the comments comes from power tool wood workers. After reading http://www.rpwoodwork.com/blog/ on bandsaw and a few others I bought a bandsaw as my primary power tool for solid wood. If ply or mdf is your primary medium then a tablesaw/tracksaw is first in my books.

This is how I generally use my bandsaw. It is the Rikon 14" bandsaw OEM. The throat capacity is about 13 inches. Good enough for a lot of short stock. Cross cuts with a sliding jig is VERY accurate. I have slice up to 0.5mm thickness with accuracy.
So cross cuts are very good. Just need to be aware of the table size. If the stock is long you can extend the reach of the table, width length.

Next is ripping. The bandsaw is the only machine I am aware that can cut veneers. Book matching with a table saw can't do if the stock is too wide say 14"....

Curves are king on bandsaw.

Milling. As pointed out this can be SLOWER as one face and one edge needs to be flat. A hand jointer plane can plane down quickly the surface flat if it is not badly warp or bended or twisted.... Once it is planed down. Just move over to the bandsaw and slice off the waste of the opposite surface. A tuned bandsaw is very much needed here. It will remove the waste quick enough but be safe with push sticks.

In short you won't regret the decision. It is a worth while investment if you work with solid wood. Ply and mdf is another matter. As all work are different some tools are better with others. Bandsaw is not the best solution for crosscuts for 10 feet stock.....
Get the ryoba out :)

[Shawn Pixley]

I don't have a jointer and I seldom use a planer (I hate turning wood to chips / dust) so I resaw on bandsaw to get thickness. I then flatten and clean up with hand planes. However, I rip on my TS (blended woodworker). I don't care to rip on mybandsaw especially when I have a really good table saw. I spend a lot of time with component layout on the purchased lumber. If I need to straightline rip, I use my TS with a homemade jig, track saw, or hand saw (thanks to Mike A.). Everything is trued with handplanes. Your sequence of operations is important here. I prefer to break down to smaller components and good grain orientation before resawing. I have a big stack of thins and shop veneers from this. I enjoy flattening stock with planes.

Crosscutting & joinery are usually by hand tools.