1/8 inch blade on Laguna 1412

[David Sloan]

I was under the impression that one could use a 1/8" blade on the 1412. Needed 1/8 scrolling blade for a project that my little scrollsaw couldn't handle. Saw after the fact in the manual that ceramic guides not designed for blades less than 1/4" and that was apparent when I tried (using a Laguna 1/8" blade). Able to do what needed to be done but it wasn't ideal. Does anyone have experience with using blades smaller than 1/4" on the 1412? I know Carter makes a guide designed for 1/8" blades but it looks like that is not an option with the Laguna. I have enjoyed this forum very much. This is the first time I have posted a question though. Happy New Year everyone.

[Van Huskey]

First, you really can't use a 1/8 or usually a 3/16" blade with a saw where the guide is a similar or harder substance than the teeth of the blade since you will almost certainly get tooth to side guide contact at some point and dull the teeth. Bandsaws with phenolic/cool blocks or ones with Carter Stabilizer grooved thrust bearings (like the larger Powermatics) can use a narrow blade from the factory, all others need to be adapted.

Call Carter and see if they have something for the 14/12 if they say no you can usually use the line drawings of the stabilizers to find one that will work, if you can't find the line drawings let me know and I will track them down, they aren't on the Carter site, or didn't used to be. (nevermind here is the link http://www.pswood.com/band-saw-stabilizer/ ). I have found several stabilizers to fit non-listed saws by using the drawings.

If that is a no-go then cut a block of hardwood and shape it to fit the rounded opening in each half of the Laguna guides so it can be squeezed and held between the guides. Start a very shallow kerf with the blade to be used in each wood block and then hold them between the guides and tighten. Now you have a guide system for narrow blades, use only the top or both. I suggest hard maple that is soaked for a couple of days in oil or Lignum Vitae.

The final option is buying the Laguna cool blocks...

[David Sloan]

Thanks Van for your detailed response. Much appreciated.

[Larry Frank]

I wanted to use small blades and bought a Rikon 10" bandsaw on sale. I have the Carter Stabilizer on it and will cut very tight curves.

[David Sloan]

I wanted to use small blades and bought a Rikon 10" bandsaw on sale. I have the Carter Stabilizer on it and will cut very tight curves.

Larry, I had wondered if that might be the best solution ie buy a benchtop just to put a 1/8" blade on. Have looked at the small Rikon in Woodcraft and it looks significantly better built than the two "toy" benchtops I once had before buying first an old 15" Grizzly and now the 1412. Had also wondered about getting a better scrollsaw like the dewalt or new Jet. Can anyone tell me how well a good scrollsaw works when cutting 1 1/2" or 2" hardwood?

[Van Huskey]

Larry, I had wondered if that might be the best solution ie buy a benchtop just to put a 1/8" blade on. Have looked at the small Rikon in Woodcraft and it looks significantly better built than the two "toy" benchtops I once had before buying first an old 15" Grizzly and now the 1412. Had also wondered about getting a better scrollsaw like the dewalt or new Jet. Can anyone tell me how well a good scrollsaw works when cutting 1 1/2" or 2" hardwood?

A scrollsaw is too slow for most people to attempt thicker wood more than a one off. While you may indeed be fine with one of the better small bandsaws watching CL for a decent deal on a cast 14" saw is usually a better option if you have the space to push it in the corner. In my book more bandsaws is always the answer.

[David Sloan]

Now I'm regretting selling my old 500lb Grizzly which when I bought it used had an 1/8" blade on it! I put a 1/4" blade on it and used it mostly to cut bowl blanks. It had been abused and I could never tune it properly. I have enjoyed the vibration free precision of the Laguna.

[Larry Frank]

I have a Hegner scroll saw and use it a lot. It is a very robust scroll saw. I also have a 16" Jet Bandsaw used mainly for resaw. I make some toys and other things and bought the 10" Rikon as an in between saw.

[David Sloan]

That's a very good scrollsaw so the fact that you bought a 10"Rikon answers my qustion I think. I also have made and continue to make a lot of toys so your input is most helpful Larry.Thanks.

[David Sloan]

I communicated with Carter and the JET1 stabilizer 79.00 fits the Laguna 1412. This allows use of blades less than 1/4 inch in the 1412. I will probably go ahead and order it. Hope this helps any other 1412 owners that want to use a scrolling blade.

[Glenn de Souza]

First, you really can't use a 1/8 or usually a 3/16" blade with a saw where the guide is a similar or harder substance than the teeth of the blade since you will almost certainly get tooth to side guide contact at some point and dull the teeth. Bandsaws with phenolic/cool blocks or ones with Carter Stabilizer grooved thrust bearings (like the larger Powermatics) can use a narrow blade from the factory, all others need to be adapted.


Van,
Not to challenge your bandsaw expertise, but what you are saying has not been my experience.

I have a 16" Italian Meber saw, marketed for a few years by Laguna here in the US. I would say it's considered to be a lower grade than the Italian saws Laguna sells today. It has the standard Euro guides. Some time back, I started using this bandsaw to cut out the names of my kids' friends that would come over to visit. They get a big kick out of it and it's great to see how excited they can get over a piece of scrap wood. Maybe I'll inspire a future craftsperson.

Anyway, to use a narrow 1/8" blade I set the guides so they are behind the teeth but still stabilizing the blade body, and then pull the thrust bearing forward where it is basically pushing against the blade ever so slightly but not so much that it would push the blade forward on the wheel (whereas normally I would set the thrust bearing about 1/64 or 1/32 back). I set the guides pretty tight, probably just .001 or .002 but I open up the lower guide completely and basically don't use it with this blade. So the thrust bearing is what keeps the teeth away from the guides and prevent any damage to the teeth or set. I do the same with a 3/16" blade. It cuts very well set up like this.

A 1/8" blade by it's very nature is for very fine scroll work, and I don't use it where I am subjecting the blade to a lot of forward pressure, this may be why having the thrust bearing pulled a little forward works out okay and doesn't cause it to spin like a dervish.

I don't doubt that the Carter Stabilizer works very well and possibly better. My point is - even though this saw was probably intended for resawing and larger scale work, it can work with 1/8" and 3/16" blades with the stock setup.

Glenn

350814

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[Andrew R Miller]

laguna sells "mini guides" I have the 14/12 I have yet to take my resaw king off of it........ lol

[Van Huskey]

Van,
Not to challenge your bandsaw expertise, but what you are saying has not been my experience.



Glenn, first I am not a bandsaw expert just a guy that loves bandsaws and likes to talk about them, but as a result some attribute to me more insight than maybe they should. This puts me in an awkward position of having to be careful what I say about bandsaws where I feel comfortable saying anything that comes to mind about other machines. As a result I tend to try to be conservative to a degree and recite conventional wisdom in many situations.

I agree with you 100% that it can be done but it requires very meticulous setup, something you are obviously very capable at. My post was based on not contravening manufacturers recommendations and recommending the most fool proof ways to accomplish what the OP wanted to do and to keep me off the hook if he were to junk a blade. I like to recommend the Carter stabilizer since it is near foolproof (as long as you preload the blade, similar to what you are doing with the thrust bearing) and it actually decreases the minimum radius a given blade will cut so it is sorta the best of both worlds. Cool Blocks also provide a big safety net for user error.

To some extent I often do the "do as I say not as I do" dance with bandsaw questions. I do the same thing with the "why is my bandsaw doing this questions" usually I (as well as many others) pretty much know what the issue is but I still feel it is important to start at the beginning and do a full diagnostic workup, my wife hates this about me (secretly she appreciates it) but it is the teach a person to fish approach and/or Socratic method both of which I hold very dear.

In the "not as I do" vein my personal answer to this issue is to have a separate bandsaw setup and optimized for narrow blades. :D


BTW don't sell the Meber short, there are things I like about it better than the current ACM saws.

[Glenn de Souza]

Van,

All good points. You've now got me thinking about the separate-bandsaw-for-narrow-blades idea..... not that I needed more help with feeding the tool addiction!

Changing subjects but staying on the topic of 1/8" blades. The only source I know that sells and welds 1/8" blades to order is Timberwolf. Their one offering in the 1/8" size is 14tpi. Does anyone know of another source, ideally one that offers a lower tooth count?

I can get a 3/16 blade in a 4tpi skip tooth or hook tooth, but cannot find something similar in 1/8"

[Geoff Crimmins]

Changing subjects but staying on the topic of 1/8" blades. The only source I know that sells and welds 1/8" blades to order is Timberwolf. Their one offering in the 1/8" size is 14tpi. Does anyone know of another source, ideally one that offers a lower

Supercut sells some 1/8" blades, but I don't know if they have anything courser than 14 tpi. Maybe that's reaching the limits of what will work on narrow band.

--Geoff

[Andrew R Miller]

only thing about hte 14/12 the 115 blade size is an odd size

[John Aperahama]

A 1/8 blade is, in my experience only available as 14 tpi or 18 tpi.
I buy 1/8 Supercut bands by the dozen last me about 3 months.
You have to call them to order.

[Van Huskey]

Van,

All good points. You've now got me thinking about the separate-bandsaw-for-narrow-blades idea..... not that I needed more help with feeding the tool addiction!

Changing subjects but staying on the topic of 1/8" blades. The only source I know that sells and welds 1/8" blades to order is Timberwolf. Their one offering in the 1/8" size is 14tpi. Does anyone know of another source, ideally one that offers a lower tooth count?

I can get a 3/16 blade in a 4tpi skip tooth or hook tooth, but cannot find something similar in 1/8"


You need another bandsaw... or 3.

I use Starrett 1/8 and 3/16" blades (Lenox quit making the smaller than 1/4" blades years ago). Starrett's offerings are 14 and 18 TPI for the 1/8" and they are regular tooth form so you have to see them as nearly a scroll saw blade. Take note the 3/16" blade will cut very similar radii to a 1/8" blade with a Stabilizer. Louis Iturra is where I got my last batch of 1/8" and 3/16" blades.

[Van Huskey]

only thing about hte 14/12 the 115 blade size is an odd size


The only real issue with that is trying to buy one at the local BORG where you shouldn;t buy blades anyway or need one that day if you haven't found an industrial supply near you (there almost always is one). I can't say it often enough, if you are buying your bandsaw blades in prepackaged boxes or cards you are almost certainly overpaying. Find some place local or order from one of the many great saw sellers that weld the blades from bandstock coils.

[Trevor Mulb]

I own a 14/12 and have both the standard ceramic guides as well as the cool block guides that Laguna sells for small blades. The cool block guides are great for 3/8 to 3/16 i wide blades but you need the Carter Stabilizer roller guide for a 1/8 inch blade. It is the "jet1 stabilizer." If you want to do scrolling with a 1/8 inch blade, that is the only way to get consistently good results.