TS cut=final

[David Ragan]

After setting up a VSC Tools Fence on my TS, and verifying, that finally, it is perfectly straight, and perfectly aligned w the blade.....I recalled a thread here that a fellow was talking about setting up the scale on the saw so that the wood was perfect dimension/finish right off the saw; no fiddling around, etc. Specifically, the poster was referring to the distance from the fence to the blade-in regards to accuracy. At the time, I knew that would be futile for me.

However, now, it may be possible.

So-my questions are:

-Is this what the enlightened crowd has been doing all along?
-Different blades, even the same model, will be slightly different distance to scale, right?
-Do you all rely on the stock scale on the saw?
-Would a rigid scale be more accurate? (factory tape doesn't have great resolution, and has parallax; doesn't an after market tape stretch;etc?)
-it is horrifying to think that my blades could wobble-but even w, like WW II professionally sharpened-doesn't that happen?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[Jim Becker]

You ask about a lot of things, but the one thought I can provide immediately, is that yes, there can be variances between different blades relative to actual cut width and if you require super-exact measurements, adjusting for blade width can come into play. But consider this...if you are pushing material along the fence by hand (which includes using the requisite push block for safety) you are always going to have some slight variability in the edge just due to the fact that you are human and cannot exert force in exactly a straight line, etc. So a few thou plus or minus of blade width isn't going to factor much into the accuracy of your cuts. With a good sharp blade and great alignment of the fence to the blade, you will generally get a good cut surface. The only way to get a better cut is with a slider and the material clamped to the wagon through the cut.

I do use the scale on my saw and don't have any concerns with accuracy, especially since it's a relatively narrow range. I can always use actual material to match a rip width for narrow stock, too, by using the fence and the edge of a tooth on the blade to do the setup.

I do find value in "standardizing" on blades (which for me actually is the WW-II in its variants) but part of that is because my saw also has a scoring blade and I have things setup carefully to insure that both blades are perfectly aligned and the same cut width.

[Charlie Velasquez]

-Different blades, even the same model, will be slightly different distance to scale, right? The blades may be different widths, but if your measured stick is from the fence, then it will always register to the arbor washer. The only variation should be the degree of set your blade tooth has; should be negligible

-Do you all rely on the stock scale on the saw? Yes, but it has been checked hundreds of times.

-Would a rigid scale be more accurate? (factory tape doesn't have great resolution, and has parallax; doesn't an after market tape stretch;etc?) Depends on how accurate your OEM tape is. Measure and check. If there is any deviation, it will be constant, so from that point on you will know what the discrepancy is so I guess it would now be accurate. They sell magnifiers.

-it is horrifying to think that my blades could wobble-but even w, like WW II professionally sharpened-doesn't that happen? Buy a good blade, check the runout. If it is excessive the major brands will stand behind the product and satisfy you.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Just my opinion....

[Andy Giddings]

On top of Jim's comments about blade width causing variation, the most precise rip fence I ever had on a cabinet saw was the Incra TS-LS. The indexing allows for an accurate and repeatable positioning without any judgement or parallax error. There's no nudging the fence to get the right measurement (which you get even with something like a Wixey digital read out). Just works.

[Mike Cutler]

David
Congrats on your new fence system. I think your wood working is going to get much easier and you're going to have an exponential increase in ability, now that you won't be fighting that previous fence.



After setting up a VSC Tools Fence on my TS, and verifying, that finally, it is perfectly straight, and perfectly aligned w the blade.....I recalled a thread here that a fellow was talking about setting up the scale on the saw so that the wood was perfect dimension/finish right off the saw; no fiddling around, etc. Specifically, the poster was referring to the distance from the fence to the blade-in regards to accuracy. At the time, I knew that would be futile for me.

However, now, it may be possible.

So-my questions are:

-Is this what the enlightened crowd has been doing all along?
The material comes off my saw ready to go.
-Different blades, even the same model, will be slightly different distance to scale, right?
Yes, but within the realm of statistical accuracy, you won't see the difference unless it's pretty dramatic, like thin kerf versus full kerf.
-Do you all rely on the stock scale on the saw?
I never do.I use either a 1', or 6', Starrett machine rule. Using the same measuring device ensures repeatability. If it's longer than that , I always use the same tape measure.
-Would a rigid scale be more accurate?
Yes and no. What you're really after is repeatability. If all your measurements for a project fall within the range of the fence, you're good. If not, a dedicated rigid scale might be better.
-it is horrifying to think that my blades could wobble-but even w, like WW II professionally sharpened-doesn't that happen?
If you're blade is wobbling, you need to get that taken care of. Run out on a blade should be as close to zero as possible. A wobbling blade is generally a sign that something is amiss with the arbor.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[David Ragan]

David
Congrats on your new fence system. I think your wood working is going to get much easier and you're going to have an exponential increase in ability, now that you won't be fighting that previous fence.

this is what I am hoping.

for my birthday in March, they got me the JessEm TS guides. Am very satifsfied w them; however, much to my dismay---still produced a dang gap down next to the stock fence (SS).....a lot of money there-for that result?? Unacceptable. SS had already sent me a new face. I just did not want to spend anymore time screwing those fence bolts in and out and in and out....

So, yesterday-after it was all set up, and I ripped a 4' piece of scrap, and it went all the way down the fence w zero gap.....that is a thing of beauty. thank heavens.

I also made a crosscut sled (way too heavy, though), to give better results.

Next target is going over my old shooting board. I really like the one on a FWW video (Tim Rousseau)-it is very simple http://www.finewoodworking.com/2013/08/02/become-a-shooting-board-master

Maybe I should start a thread on how to get accurate, reproducible work-straight edges, precise lengths, and spot-on angles.

[David M Peters]

David, your realization about the inherent inaccuracy in measuring things is an important step in becoming a more accurate woodworker. Any use of a numbered scale will never be dead-on accurate. The most obvious example of this is using a pencil to make a mark off a tape measure.

Let's say you're building a simple hall table with a drawer. We'll cut some 28" legs so we set up the stop on our (insert saw of choice) to that length and cut all four legs to length. Those legs are certainly not exactly 28.000" but who cares they're all the same. Same goes for the aprons and material for the top; we batch out the cuts for consistency. But now let's saw we mess up the tenon on an apron and need a new one and our measuring stop has now moved. At those point we take Jim's advice and use the apron's sibling as a reference. One side against the blade teeth and the other against the stop. Using the numbered scale would not be accurate. You could cut the apron long and then sneak up on a matching length but that's a fiddly and time consuming.

The final step in our table project is making the drawer to fit in a rectangular hole that we earlier put into the apron. How wide to we make it? Measuring with a tape and then moving your stop to that number is introduces two compounding errors. Instead you could use a bar gauge to get the actual inside width of the opening, and then use the gauge to set the cut stop.

So certainly do your best to calibrate your saw's scale but once it's zeroed out it still only plays a partial role in measuring your work. Even an indexed TS fence only solves the repeatability problem, it doesn't let you measure to arbitrary lengths.