Repairing loose joints in a piano stool

[John K Jordan]

A friend, under the impression that I can fix anything, brought me an adjustable piano stool with a turned central column, four legs, and four stretchers, all apparently made of maple.

She said one of the rungs was loose. I found all of the stretchers, all four legs, and the central screw mechanism loose. Someone had attempted reinforcement of several joints by circling the tenons with hot melt glue. Ha. I was able to disassemble the entire bench with my hands. It looks like it may have been assembled with hide glue. All the wood is sound.

I don't make or repair chairs but this stool was from her mother. What is a good way to approach repairing this? Would a good epoxy hold? She said the stool will not get heavy use.

JKJ

[Lee Schierer]

I use woodworkers glue for similar repairs on chairs. However, if the tenon make a sloppy fit in the socket, I use my hand plane to make a thin shaving from maple. I coat that shaving with glue and wrap it around the tenon. For a clamp I wrap a large rubber band around the glued shaving multiple times. While the glue is drying, I clean out the corresponding socket to make the hole round and to remove old glue. I let the glue dry and then remove the rubber band. I use a flat file to trim the beefed up tenon to fit the cleaned out socket. Then I apply glue to the hole and the tenon and reassemble the chair. I've had chairs that I've repaired in this manner go for 10 years or more before additional work is needed.

[roger wiegand]

Use hide glue. It's good for another 50-100 years at least and makes the repair process straightforward for the next guy. You can slightly wedge the tenons if you like, or add a shaving per Lee's suggestion. I'd take as little wood away as possible.

[John K Jordan]

Use hide glue. It's good for another 50-100 years at least and makes the repair process straightforward for the next guy. You can slightly wedge the tenons if you like, or add a shaving per Lee's suggestion. I'd take as little wood away as possible.

This reminds me of advice I got from a guy who rebuilt player pianos before I did mine some 30+ years ago. He said if I used modern glues it was the end of the line - the piano could not be rebuilt by the next guy some day. Much of the player mechanism had to be disassembled by heating the wood and softening the old hide glue. A month of quality time and the player went from unusable to like new. Good fun!

Lee, all the tenons on this stool are tight enough that I don't think I need the shaving but I'll remember that. The mild wedge sounds like a good idea, at least for those joints that were obviously stressed the most.

Thanks.

JKJ

[Robert Engel]

Epoxy or hide.

I have attempted repair on several chairs and not had good luck with wood glue probably because the mortise in leg is almost all endgrain.

There's a reason why many chairmakers use hide glue with through tenons and wedges.

[Mike Cutler]

John

Skip the epoxy and use hide glue. If you had split or broken members, epoxy would okay for those, but you want to maintain the ability to repair the joints down the line
If nothing is broken or split, clean the joints up really well and do some of the tricks Lee suggested.

[roger wiegand]

This reminds me of advice I got from a guy who rebuilt player pianos before I did mine some 30+ years ago. He said if I used modern glues it was the end of the line - the piano could not be rebuilt by the next guy some day. Much of the player mechanism had to be disassembled by heating the wood and softening the old hide glue. A month of quality time and the player went from unusable to like new. Good fun!



That's funny-- I rebuild player pianos and mechanical organs. I think those of us who do that all think there should be a special place reserved in you-know-where for people who use "modern" glues on things that are going to have to be taken apart and rebuilt at some point in the future.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

For 99% of the repairs we do today, we use west systems epoxy thickened as to provide a superior strength joint, gap filling and I guarantee for life to my customers.

We repair/refinish a lot of furniture. Especially chairs and table bases. I used to use woodworking glue, and various means of tightening the joints - which for many jobs did the trick. However, we had enough call backs a year, two or more later - and I realised that with any deformation of the tenon, it is hard for a traditional non gap filling, non structural adhesive to work well. If the joints are still very snug after cleaning off the old glue, yes, wood glue works great. But most furniture we fix has been loose and used for years. So the joints are now all loose and many broken pcs etc.

With epoxy, I have never had one come back.

That being said, I keep some hide glue granules around for that special piece, or that family heirloom, etc. SOmething you dont want to devalue. Very rare I get something like that, though. But I agree - you dont want to use a modern glue on a piece that is valuable. Or if you get a request to stay as original.

But pretty much all the stuff we repair is run of the mill factory made furniture that doesn't have any intrinsic value past the function. So what is most important is fixing it to last as long as possible. And, epoxy will certainly do that. Use a GOOD epoxy though. Never hardware variety 5 minute crap that stays rubbery, etc. A good industrial resin, and slow hardener. That allows you to modify with various additives to make what you need to repair any wood/metal etc joint.

[John K Jordan]

That's funny-- I rebuild player pianos and mechanical organs....

That is funny! Do you do that for fun or a living or both? Could you use my leftover bellows cloth and any spare parts I still have in a box? Send me a PM if you do. (BTW, the pump and reservoir cloth was perfect for making a fireplace bellows!)

I hauled this player from my parents house in PA to TN in a U-haul trailer and rebuilt it in my 10x12' basement "shop", er, laundry room. (Soon after that we built a detached shop!)

I found a gentleman in middle TN who rebuilt players for a living. Player piano rebuilders were rare 30+ years ago - I can't imagine the odds of running into one today, even on a woodworking forum! The last I checked, it looked like even the player piano company in Kansas where I bought bellows cloth and such is no longer in business.

This guy had at a dozen or more pianos waiting and said he usually ran about two years behind. He seemed thrilled to talk to someone interested in this and spent most of a day showing me how the vacuum regulator and motor worked, all about the paper centering mechanism, how to best take things apart - a great education!

I rebuilt every bellows and replaced the lead tubing with rubber. A piano technician/tuner friend got me a set of new hammers, felts, real ivory keys to replace some missing, and helped me restring the piano. This is the piano we all practiced on and played as kids and the player was so leaky it would exhaust an energetic 15-year-old boy pumping. When I got done I could literally play a roll by pressing on one pedal with my thumb!

The piano is still working fine today. (So is the fireplace bellows!) When we moved I loaned it to several families and finally gave it to one of my own sons. Today, his stepson is using it to learn to play. Life is good.

JKJ

[roger wiegand]

I do it as a hobby and to keep my big organ running (see www.carouselorgan.com"), though with more time post retirement we'll see how things go. I've never been able to keep up with my own projects. I'm mostly fascinated with organ building now.

Unfortunately old rubber covered cloth has a shelf life, so I'm not sure I'd suggest installing 30 year old cloth in a piano-- too much work. Should be great for fireplace bellows though!