Cabinet Saw or European Slider

[Russ Webb]

I have a small shop I built and having completed the construction work I am ready to upgrade from a Bosch 4100 table saw to something with greater precision and capabilities.

I have been planning to purchase a Sawstop 36" 5hp ICS. But, having read a number of threads about European saws I've begun to wonder if something like a Hammer K3 31x31 might better suit my needs.

I will use the saw primarily for milling stock, etc. as I prefer to do hand work whenever possible. I would like to be able to dispense with a sliding compound miter saw in the shop because it takes up too much space and produces too much dust (despite a dust hood, etc.) I will be doing some work with plywood panels (cabinets, etc.) but hope to move away from that and primarily focus on hardwood lumber projects when I've finished some home renovation/remodel projects.

I'm interested in hearing from those of you who have experience with both cabinet saws and European sliders to help me understand the pros and cons, differences in style of work, which does what best, etc. I'd also be interested in advice regarding the value of a longer sliding table as the 31x48 Hammer K3 seems to take up only a bit more space. The features and methods of work I've seen illustrated for the European saws seem inherently safer in some respects but I am unsure if these methods would serve my purposes. I do admire the precision and thoughtful design of the European saws but don't know if they would be right for my purposes. Dust collection is a critical element for me. I want to minimize dust as much as possible.

I'd like to avoid re-starting the inevitable debate regarding the merits of Sawstop vs other cabinet saws. I've read the numerous threads here and elsewhere on that topic and have made the decision that if I get a cabinet saw it will be a Sawstop.

I long ago concluded that no matter how careful I am and how methodical I try to be I WILL make a mistake someday that will put me at risk of injury. I have done so in the past despite my best efforts. I am obviously far less competent and careful than many others who have avoided mistakes over lengthy periods and are certain that they can continue to do so in the future. I am not that skilled or diligent. I am imperfect and the additional cost of a safety device is of no consequence to me - particularly in comparison to the potential injuries that can be avoided. I know this single safety device will not forestall all possible accidents and injuries and that I have to remain vigilant but it will remove one type of risk and that is worth it to me.

Thanks for any information and advice you may have that will help me make the best decision.

[glenn bradley]

The eternal question. Cab saw fans will mostly say cab saw. Slider format folks will praise the wonders of the slider. The answer to the format question is easier answered when we know what kind of things you do. Lots of large panel crosscuts? Slider, most definitely. Lots of smaller detailed parts like joinery and the like? Cab saw all the way. It is when it becomes a mixed bag that the strengths or weaknesses of each format start to show. Let's see what the brain-trust has to say . . . .

[Martin Wasner]

I long ago concluded that no matter how careful I am and how methodical I try to be I WILL make a mistake someday that will put me at risk of injury.

Then you need to take up something that doesn't involve power tools. You're ill equipped no matter what you get

[Bill Space]

Then you need to take up something that doesn't involve power tools. You're ill equipped no matter what you get

Sounds like the words of a man who has concluded HE WILL NEVER make a mistake that will put him at risk of injury...:eek:

[Jim Becker]

Cabinet saws and Euro sliders each have their strong points and weaknesses. I used the former early on and have been using the latter for a number of years now. I'd be hard pressed to give up the slider at this point. I just plain like the precision and repeatability as well as some of the safety aspects that come with the tool, itself, moving the wood through the cut. There's a continual learning curve for sure, but I enjoy every learning experience that comes my way. The slider and J/P are the complimentary "heart" of my shop. But that's "me"...your needs and desires may be different, so consider all of the angles, costs, benefits and down-sides to both choices before you select what to buy. You only want to do that once!

[Russ Webb]

Then you need to take up something that doesn't involve power tools. You're ill equipped no matter what you get

I had hoped to avoid precisely this type of asinine comment that adds nothing of substance to any discussion. But apparently there is no avoiding those, like you, whose idea of achievement is to make what they believe are witty comments on internet forums to puff up their ego by attempting to denigrate others.

I have been using power tools since grade school. I also engage in many other activities that present much much higher levels of risk of both injury and death - out in the real world and not sitting behind my keyboard. I've been doing these things for 60 years. Unlike you, I've actually learned from life experiences and understand that despite my greatest effort to take every possible precaution I cannot control every element of risk and that human error is inevitable.

Please do me and others a favor and troll elsewhere. I am interested in information from intelligent people who have something of substance to share. You clearly do not meet that criteria.

[Rick Potter]

I had a Felder slider for about 10 years and it was a very nice saw. I kept my Unisaw for dados and other work, and found that when I wasn't doing sheet goods I still preferred the cabinet saw.

I sold the Felder, and bought a SawStop PCS, which I also like very much. I also kept the Unisaw for dados. It is really nice to have two saws, and I use the SS for most everything.

Both the slider and the SS have their points, and I found the slider to be very safe, as I left the guard over the blade all the time, set at about one inch for most cuts. In my case, I simply preferred the cabinet saw and got the safest one. I know I could have made various jigs to use on the slider, but I was already set up for a cabinet saw, and saw no reason to change work habits.

Old dog, new tricks, I guess.

You will probably like either one. I guess the big question is how much sheet goods do you use? I have a track saw now for sheet goods. Real handy.

[David Zaret]

i was a cabinet saw guy for a few decades... and still am, have a canadian-made General 650 that i'll sell only when i'm dead. a few years ago i got a Martin slider to do large-scale furniture and casework. i'll never go back. i've heard people say that sliders are only good for plywood, and if you build furniture, better to have a cabinet saw. i wouldn't give up my cabinet saw, because there are tasks it excels at that simps aren't suited for the slider, but 97% of my cuts, hardwood or plywood, are done on the slider, with a degree of precision, speed and safety that i never thought possible. YMMV, but i'm definitely sold on having a slider in my shop.

couple of things to keep in mind (apologies if these are self-evident):

1) sliders are big. really big. the footprint is huge, and "virtual" footprint to accommodate the sliding action is enormous. plan accordingly, and don't shove a big slider in a tiny shop.

2) you have options with sliders. the ability to turn on/off the saw right at the operator's position (rather than on the case), "normal" or "two-point" fence systems, digital scales and gauges, parallelogram vs. fixed miter table, etc. if you're buying a new slider, think carefully about each option and determine what makes most sense for you and what you can afford.

3) for me, one of the best features of having a slider in a furniture shop is the ability to quickly prep rough stock - straight lining and ripping is a breeze. now, of course, having a SLRS would be better, but i don't have one, and i'm not getting one - the slider provides a much faster option than a track saw or router...

4) different blade types make a huge difference on a slider. use a rip blade for ripping, use a high-tooth crosscut for clean crosscuts. use a high quality plywood blade for hardwood plywood.


good luck with your decision!

--- dz

[David Zaret]

one more thing i just thought of... ripping on a slider is .... different. it's neither good nor bad, just different. takes practice. to qualify this - ripping WITH THE RIP FENCE is different. ripping with the slider is obviously straightforward, as long as you can parallel the stock via offset fences and clamp, easy as it gets.

for things such as face frame stock, i find myself ripping just over final size and then bringing the material to run on the planer, on edge, to get to final and a near-polished finish. i'm sure others have better technique and can achieve this directly off the slider rip fence, but i don't yet have that skill.

bottom line, sliders require a change in technique, learning a new way to use the machine. it's a bit of a dance, but fast, safe and accurate once you learn.

--- dz

[Russ Webb]

Cabinet saws and Euro sliders each have their strong points and weaknesses. I used the former early on and have been using the latter for a number of years now. I'd be hard pressed to give up the slider at this point. I just plain like the precision and repeatability as well as some of the safety aspects that come with the tool, itself, moving the wood through the cut. There's a continual learning curve for sure, but I enjoy every learning experience that comes my way. The slider and J/P are the complimentary "heart" of my shop. But that's "me"...your needs and desires may be different, so consider all of the angles, costs, benefits and down-sides to both choices before you select what to buy. You only want to do that once!

Thanks for your response. It appears that the sliders would be clearly superior for panel work and crosscutting and may be more capable of allowing me to eliminate a sliding miter from the shop. What is your perspective on this?

Do you find the slider to function as well or at least nearly as well for rip cuts in dimensional lumber?

Do you find a cabinet saw or slider to be more space efficient?

Did you find the slider to be superior in terms of dust collection?

Initially I will be using the saw for a good bit of cabinetry involving panel work. I expect that will diminish over time and my work will likely end up being 60/40 or maybe even 70/30 milling lumber/panel work. In that scenario do you find the benefits of a slider to outweigh those of a cabinet saw?

Thanks for any additional perspective you can add.

[David Zaret]

i think i hit on most of your questions.. as for dust collection, the slider is far superior. at least on my martin, the vast majority of the above and under-table dust is caught, unless i'm doing a dust cut which is just messy no matter what you do.

(a dust cut is taking a tiny amount off a factory edge of a panel to create a reference edge - if you cut enough that you leave a bit of offcut, dust isn't an issue)

[John K Jordan]

I've never used a real European sliding saw. However, I have a Powermatic PM66 cabinet saw and added a Robland (European) sliding table attachment. This gives me, I think, the best of both worlds for my purposes. If I ever decide to make cabinets (unlikely) I'd get a panel saw.

The Robland is a heavy cast iron table on a very good bearing system. It replaces the left table extension. It's not in the way and the saw is normally just a cabinet saw, but it is oh, so nice for crosscutting and trimming plywood panels. It has a great clamp built in. I bought it used in a benefit auction.

I have no idea if something like this is available new but if so, it might be another option to consider.

JKJ

[John Lankers]

Russ, I admit I'm not unbiased.
There are several reputable manufacturers of sliding tablesaws, however I'm only familiar with Felder.
The sliding table is designed to accept clamps and holddowns to secure even the smallest (or largest) and most delicate pieces and your hands will never be near the blade while performing the cut. Ripping on the slider is a breeze with one extra stop mounted to the sliding table. The "Fritz and Franz" jig helps with narrow rips for edgebanding / rips or to hold odd shaped pieces or to cut tapers - your hands will never be near the blade. The Felder sliding table accepts the Incra miter gauge without modification.
I have cut many, many boxjoints on my slider.
Most sliders I'm aware off come either standard or as an option to accept dado blades.
Working with a slider is different and usually takes time to get used to, don't be fooled by people trying to tell you a slider is only good for sheet good and cabinet construction. You are not supposed to and you don't have to stand in the kickback zone ever when performing a cut.

Watch theses YouTube videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVYUss6pJqQ&t=130s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj4gSMdaaxE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj4gSMdaaxE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8c9-BGJLeM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_vd-T3hqk





(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_vd-T3hqk)

[Peter Aeschliman]

My $.02... I have a 3hp sawstop PCS, and it's a great machine. But in hindsight, I wish I had bought a slider with 8ft of stroke.

With 8ft, you can use the fritz and Franz jig and the sliding mechanism for your parallel rip cuts, which gives it a safety advantage over the sawstop. By my estimation, hand-fed rip cuts have the most potential for kickback and for blade contact. The slider keeps your hands away from the blade and your body out of the line of fire for a kickback. But you need the sliding table to have enough stroke to handle your rips.

And not only does the slider have the safety advantage, it also has more capability (crosscuts without a giant sled, etc).

Hope that helps. I think the SS is a great innovation and a well made saw, but I wish I knew then what I know now.

[Robert Engel]

No idea what kind of ww'ing you're doing and I've never used a Hammer or any slider but I have an opinion :D

First, a 3HP saw will suffice for vast majority of ww'ers. You'll never need the extra power and if it takes 12" blades, the extra expense.

As far as a slider, yes, they are handy, but once again, that's a value decision vs. the quantity of work you're doing. If you're not a commercial shop but are blessed with good funding, then go for it. A good sled will suffice. If you're doing a lot of sheet good work then a track saw is a good option.

[David Kumm]

Middle ground. Short stroke saw.350115 Crosscuts >36" and does everything a straight cabinet saw will do. The small Hammer is similar but much lighter duty. The SS slider is not a very good table design but a great blade stop design. There are a few older short stroke Euro saws that are a heavier build but few new ones. The key to a practical short stroke is for the sliding table to lock flush with the front of the fixed table. If it protrudes in the front it might as well be 10' and then do everything. Dave

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for your response. It appears that the sliders would be clearly superior for panel work and crosscutting and may be more capable of allowing me to eliminate a sliding miter from the shop. What is your perspective on this?

I still use my CMS, but largely to break down long rough stock and sometimes for other detail work where the miter cutting specialty is convenient.



Do you find the slider to function as well or at least nearly as well for rip cuts in dimensional lumber?

As another community member mentioned, ripping is "different" on a slider. Most of my ripping is done on the wagon after flattening and thicknessing on the J/P. It totally eliminates "edge jointing" on a jointer since the cut is perfectly perpendicular to the faces of flattened lumber and there isn't the minute variability in straightness that's inherent with running a board along a fence. With the slider, you're also not limited to indexing to the edge of the board that the sawyer created. If the grain is better suited with the new first edge not being parallel to the sawyers' edge, it's extremely simple on a slider to just rip a new edge along any line you want to. I use a parallel rip jig to bring lumber to width as long as they are 4" or so or wider. Narrow stock still gets done with the fence, but I often use the fence in the lower position (only about 3/8" tall) which makes for a less constricted space to move the wood with a pushbock/pushstick.


Do you find a cabinet saw or slider to be more space efficient?

Heck no. As was already mentioned in another post, sliders inherently require more space because you need to account for the full travel of the wagon. For my 8'6" MiniMax slider, that's 19' end to end. A 10' slider needs a couple feet more in either direction for full travel.

Did you find the slider to be superior in terms of dust collection?

Dust collection is generally good with a slider because most designs have a shroud that surrounds the blade(s) as well as overhead collection available when cuts allow it. The primary port on my saw is 120mm, which is similar to a 5" port. Most cabinet saws only come with a 4" port and most don't have any OEM way to direct air flow (which is what moves the dust) from the blade to the port.


Initially I will be using the saw for a good bit of cabinetry involving panel work. I expect that will diminish over time and my work will likely end up being 60/40 or maybe even 70/30 milling lumber/panel work. In that scenario do you find the benefits of a slider to outweigh those of a cabinet saw?

Sliders clearly excel in processing sheet goods and for those few projects I do that involve sheet goods, it's been a pleasure in that respect. Most of my woodworking is with solid stock, however. What I love is the repeatability and not having my hands anywhere near the blade for a large percentage of cuts.


Thanks for any additional perspective you can add.

Always a pleasure. Again, working with a slider is often a different experience and there absolutely is a learning curve for anyone moving from a traditional North American style saw. (cabinet, contractors' style, etc.) It's not for everyone. Most folks who have one tend to really like them, however, so that's a positive factor.

[David M Peters]

I have a "small format" slider, the now-discontinued Grizzly G0700 (http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Sliding-Table-Saw-with-Scoring-Blade-Arbor/G0700?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com) and like it. I have a smallish basement workspace and didn't want to wind up building all the jigs I see people using. Watching how Andrei (https://www.youtube.com/user/mtmwood) uses his slider for easy ripping/cross cutting convinced me to get one and I'm happy that I did. I have exactly zero table saw jigs. My wedgie sled consists of two boards with lock knobs that fit into the slider slots.

I do have two main complaints about the sliding format though:
* Standard 3/4" miter slot accessories will not fit into the metric slots.
* Ripping a wider panel against the fence sometimes requires that you take the miter gauge off this losing whatever calibration you had done before. However I think this is mostly a problem with my Grizz because the Hammer has an adjustable 90 degree stop on the side of the table.

[Martin Wasner]

I had hoped to avoid precisely this type of asinine comment that adds nothing of substance to any discussion. But apparently there is no avoiding those, like you, whose idea of achievement is to make what they believe are witty comments on internet forums to puff up their ego by attempting to denigrate others.

I have been using power tools since grade school. I also engage in many other activities that present much much higher levels of risk of both injury and death - out in the real world and not sitting behind my keyboard. I've been doing these things for 60 years. Unlike you, I've actually learned from life experiences and understand that despite my greatest effort to take every possible precaution I cannot control every element of risk and that human error is inevitable.

Please do me and others a favor and troll elsewhere. I am interested in information from intelligent people who have something of substance to share. You clearly do not meet that criteria.


I make a living with my tools, and know full well what happens if I screw up. Guess what? I don't screw up. No troll, just know your limitations, which it sound like you do but aren't willing to accept.

[Darcy Warner]

I just drug out my holzher 1243 yesterday to cut some small beveled pieces for a project. My Whitney and Greenlee were set up for other tasks so dragging out the big slider was easier.

I have a short stroke Fortis that is a nice saw too.

It's nice having multiple saws, if I could only have one, it's a tough choice between my Whitney 77 with a rolling table or something like my fortis or even an older t75.

I still don't think I could live with something like my 1243 or my scmi w16 as my only saw though. I don't rip much lumber on a table saw, slr does all of that, but those big sliders just don't seem viable as an only saw option with how they are set up.

[Van Huskey]

Here is something to consider, not a lot of fine furniture makes that move to a slider seem to ever move back to a cabinet saw. The key seems to be putting in the time and thought to wrap one's head around different methods of operation. Things like replacing years (or decades) of fixtures and jigs designed for a cabinet saw are one of the examples of time and effort involved in the changeover. If I were in my 20's again I am pretty sure I would go the slider route. At this point I have fewer years to "perfect" that huge list of techniques that I thought in my 20's I would have mastered by now so the idea of diverting attention to relearning a core machine, for me, seems like a poor allocation of my time. It is like my nephews try to drive me to getting a CNC machine and a 3D printer (since they want the "free" capability) and while I do have an interest in them I still prefer to spend that learning curve time getting better at other tasks. In my view the less time you have using a cabinet saw the better one is poised to make the change unless they are simply interested in learning something new. I know pretty much for a fact it would take me a long time to translate my decades of using a cabinet saw to using a slider and I simply have better things to do with that time. Understand this is coming from a person that although I have used sliders it has only been for sheet goods and I have never watched someone use a slider in person for fine woodworking. I have always wanted to take one of Sam Blasco's classes demonstrating the use of a slider for "our" kind of work but figure it isn't in my best interest since I would probably get hooked and it would be what I consider adding a new hobby which is the LAST thing I need to do.

While I know I haven't offered much of the concrete info the OP is looking for I say if they are willing to put in the time to adapt their techniques and learn new ones for the basic cutting of wood then go for it, as again I have never seen anyone say they regretted the move.

[James Zhu]

The Felder sliding table accepts the Incra miter gauge without modification.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_vd-T3hqk)

John, can you post a picture? I just do not see how is that possible to install the Incra miter gauge on the Felder sliding table without modification. The slot on Felder sliding table is too wide, and miter bar on Incra miter gauge is not wide enough.

[John Lankers]

John, can you post a picture? I just do not see how is that possible to install the Incra miter gauge on the Felder sliding table without modification. The slot on Felder sliding table is too wide, and miter bar on Incra miter gauge is not wide enough.

James, it does work. I will post a picture tomorrow.

[Robin Frierson]

In my last shop I had both a cabinet saw and a very nice Felder slider. To keep my answer short I'll just say I used the cabinet saw a lot more. The slider was a thing of beauty when it came to using plywood. If I was a cabinet maker I would definitely have a slider. But I don't use very much plywood except for a building shop cabinets.

And like some have said, I learned on a cabinet saw and found myself going back to it rather than using new techniques on the slider. I did spend a lot of time on the Felder forum and found you could do pretty much everything on the slider. But most of my work involves smaller pieces of hardwood and I just felt better on the cabinet saw. Plus The slider took up an acre of space and I had to buy a phase converter. One plus of the slider was I used the overhead guard and with the cabinet saw I go guardless. I had to buy a new saw it would definitely be the SS.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

Here's my take. Im 46, been working full time in our custom woodworking business (even mix of cabinetry, furniture and millwork) since 1995. Grew up in the shop for many years previously. We've always had at least one cabinet saw (several unisaws) and one full size slider. So, I have extensive experience with both - for many years - of daily use.

That being said, every person's particular product(s), comfort, bias, etc will govern what opreration is preferred on what saw. There is no definite right or wrong to me. I have changed what I do on what saw, several times over the years.

Currently, we run a 10' Griggio C45 slider (a 9.5Hp saw with a 10' carriage) - outfitted with two pneumatic hold downs, and a few other accessories - and a 5HP Sawstop cabinet saw, stock except it has one extra cast iron wing on the left side and a 2nd set of outrigger legs.

Both saws get used each day, several times. Since we cut a lot of solid wood and sheet product, its a pretty even mix. I process 99% of panel products on the slider (much safer, more accurate and as equally important in a working environment, its faster and much easier on the operator). However, I also dado on the slider, cut wooden panels, straighten long stock, process thicker material due to the 4" cut height, etc. If we have a lot of lumber to rip, the higher Hp is also a benefit. The cabinet saw gets used constantly though - for general ripping, some cross cutting, grooving, etc. I find it much easier to cut smaller stock, rip narrow pieces, etc on the smaller saw. The guard is easier to work close up to vs the slider's fairly large overhead unit. With some shop made accessory fences and such, the cabinet saw is quite a versatile machine.

In a nutshell, both saws are what I'd consider mandatory in our shop. If I had to choose one, I guess it would out of necessity be the slider. Everything can be done on it, and more - and with a selection of some different diameter blades, small work would be as doable.

If I were not processing much sheet goods, I'd select a shorter machine. I know one guy that was a former employee for 18 or so years, and is running the shop we sold to him in 2010, has just added a Felder short slider to his shop. He has a Unisaw, a 10' Italian slider and now the Felder slider. He loves it, and it seems to be a good addition to his shop (4 guys trying to use two saws was a bottleneck). He also does the same mix of work we do.

It took me several years working to adapt from the cabinet saw, to do more on the slider. At one time, all we did use the slider for was processing sheets. Now, with a drawer full of various blades for it, and far better hold downs etc, the slider is extremely valuable.

My father ran the shop early on though (70's and 80's) with 5 guys and two cabinet saws only, until he purchased the first slider. And they made a whole lot of product on those saws, so It can be done. If I were looking at a new cabinet saw, Sawstop industrial 5 or 7.5 Hp would be my choice. I love mine. 6 years strong, daily use and its like the day we set it up.

[Andy Giddings]

Russ, am another user that has migrated from cabinet to slider and would not go back. Jim and David have summarized the pros and cons very well. I use the slider for panel work and for solid wood projects - small or large scale. As others have pointed out, your work methods will need to change but small scale work is easy to do on a slider.

On the question of a sliding miter - mine has been dormant even when I had a cabinet saw. The only reason I haven't put it on Craig's List is I've been lazy.

Dust collection for a slider tends to be better IMHO as the dust port is bigger and most have overhead collection built in.

[Erik Loza]

I have been planning to purchase a Sawstop 36" 5hp ICS. But, having read a number of threads about European saws I've begun to wonder if something like a Hammer K3 31x31 might better suit my needs...

My 2-cents, feel free to accept or reject as you like:

1.) If you're going to spend $5K-ish, I would get sliding table saw over a regular cabinet saw. No matter how safe it is or how much you pimp it out with add-ons (regardless of brand), your cabinet saw will still only be really good at ripping straight, not squaring sheet goods.

2.) If I were going to buy a sliding table saw (again, regardless of brand), I would make absolutely sure that no matter how else it was spec'ed out, it would be able to crosscut a 4X8 sheet through the blade and that it had a frame table and outrigger support. I realize that some mfr's offer "small" sliders with sub-48" table lengths but if you go that route, what you end up with is just a regular cabinet saw with a mitre gauge, since it is incapable of squaring up a panel on the slider, except you probably will pay "Euro pricing", not "regular cabinet saw pricing".

FYI that you should take a look at the Minimax SC2 Classic. Great machine, highly underrated, and in your price range as long as you can live without dado. Best of luck in your search.

Erik

[John Lankers]

John, can you post a picture? I just do not see how is that possible to install the Incra miter gauge on the Felder sliding table without modification. The slot on Felder sliding table is too wide, and miter bar on Incra miter gauge is not wide enough.

Here are pictures of my Incra miter gauge on my Felder KF700 S Pro

[Jim Becker]

John, I'm curious about how (and why) you're employing the Incra miter gage on the slider. Don't you have a native miter gage that moves with the wagon? Are you fixing the location of the Incra on the wagon so it stays in one place or are you sliding it in the slot like you would do on a cabinet saw? 'Just curious... My MM slider has an extremely accurate miter gage/fence that I keep on the right end of the wagon. This is separate from the outrigger that would support larger and longer stock.

[Richard Zimmerman]

Unlikely to be as precise as a true slider, but SawStop does offer a slider attachment. The sliding table is not adjacent to the blade as in a true sliding saw, so unless you configure a jig, no sliding cuts for small pieces. However it would allow you to clamp work to the slider, stand out of the kickback zone, and keep your hands away from the blade. As far as accuracy for holding the crosscut fence square to the blade, I'm not sure why it would be more or less prone to change with use, assuming the initial setup with a fixed stop at 90 degrees was done well. I do not believe it has the stroke capacity of a full length slider, but more closely approximates a short slider.

[Chris Fournier]

I use a cabinet saw for almost twenty years then I lucked into a large Euro combo machine with an 8.5' slider. If I had the space I would have kept both as I miss the cabinet saw for several tasks. It's true that you have to relearn to use the saw when you make the transition as I did. For me it has been worth it. You need the same amount of space if you are running a board or sheet over either blade but the slider occupies a larger fixed footprint.

You have two real choices in my opinion: cabinet and track saws or the slider. Buy the best you can afford!

[John Lankers]

John, I'm curious about how (and why) you're employing the Incra miter gage on the slider. Don't you have a native miter gage that moves with the wagon? Are you fixing the location of the Incra on the wagon so it stays in one place or are you sliding it in the slot like you would do on a cabinet saw? 'Just curious... My MM slider has an extremely accurate miter gage/fence that I keep on the right end of the wagon. This is separate from the outrigger that would support larger and longer stock.

Don't get me wrong, my Felder has the 1500 outrigger with 2600 mm crosscut fence, "dead on" for cutting any miters and I use it for 99 % of all cuts.
I got the Incra as a Christmas gift from my youngest son 2 years ago and if I had a cabinet saw this is the miter gauge I would have bought.
When I use it I either clamp it to the slider and push the whole wagon or lock the slider in place and just use the miter gauge like I would on a regular tablesaw. The only advantage is that the Incra miter gauge is (due to it's small profile) easier to set up tight against the blade.

[jack duren]

Unlikely to be as precise as a true slider, but SawStop does offer a slider attachment. The sliding table is not adjacent to the blade as in a true sliding saw, so unless you configure a jig, no sliding cuts for small pieces. However it would allow you to clamp work to the slider, stand out of the kickback zone, and keep your hands away from the blade. As far as accuracy for holding the crosscut fence square to the blade, I'm not sure why it would be more or less prone to change with use, assuming the initial setup with a fixed stop at 90 degrees was done well. I do not believe it has the stroke capacity of a full length slider, but more closely approximates a short slider.

You would be surprised how many true sliders aren't that precise.

[Chris Fournier]

You would be surprised how many true sliders aren't that precise.

That's why I suggest buying the best that you can afford! I would rather use a great cabinet saw than a crappy slider any day.

[jack duren]

I used the sc2. I'd pass on its purchase... Used Altendorf is 10k...

[Russ Webb]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for all your perspectives, advice, and for the abundant information to help guide me in making a decision. I haven't yet been able to fully grasp all you've provided and it will take a good bit more consideration but you've provided exactly what I needed and hoped for when starting this thread.

Your thoughtful, informative, and constructive responses are what make this and similar forums so valuable. They provide access to knowledgeable, experienced, skilled and creative people who are incredibly generous with their time and thoughts. Without such forums I'd never be able to tap into a knowledge base this broad and deep.

[Rich Riddle]

I have both but find the sliding European slider gets more use than the traditional cabinet saw. I also kept a cabinet saw for dados but Rod Sheridan talked me into purchasing a dado set for the Hammer K3 and it works well. I prefer the Hammer K3.

[Marty Schlosser]

The best advice I have for you is to find someone who lives near you, who has a slider, and take the time to try it out yourself - for as long a period as possible. That's the only way you'll know if one is a worthwile investment for you or not.

So what do I have? For approximately 15 years I used only a Unisaw in my one-man studio woodworking shop, crafting one-off furniture pieces of my own design. Plus, I took on the odd kitchen job to help the cashflow along. I then made the plunge and purchased a Felder K700S and sold my Unisaw. Every once in a while I wish I had kept the Unisaw, but then I don't have the space necessary for both... and besides, it's only every once in a blue moon that I miss the tablesaw.

Again, try a slider so you'll be able to make a learned decision, and not one based solely on speculation or the experience of others. You're the one in your shop, not us.

[Ray Newman]

Marty Schlosser: BINGO! I believe that Felder has a list of referrals.

[Jim Becker]

Don't get me wrong, my Felder has the 1500 outrigger with 2600 mm crosscut fence, "dead on" for cutting any miters and I use it for 99 % of all cuts.
I got the Incra as a Christmas gift from my youngest son 2 years ago and if I had a cabinet saw this is the miter gauge I would have bought.
When I use it I either clamp it to the slider and push the whole wagon or lock the slider in place and just use the miter gauge like I would on a regular tablesaw. The only advantage is that the Incra miter gauge is (due to it's small profile) easier to set up tight against the blade.

Thanks, John. I appreciate the explanation...it makes perfect sense! 99% of the time, I've use the standard miter fence on my MM slider for normal "dead nuts" 90º cuts, but for a commission I'm currently building, I needed to actually use it for angled cuts at 15º. Like I do when I have the blade tilted, I utilized a sacrificial fence clamped to the unit to provide perfect registration to the blade path. (something I always did with the cabinet saw and the Incra miter I used with it) I suspect you'd do the same with the Incra on the slider wagon. The miter unit I'm referring to can be seen on the right side of this photo...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/a-j-adopt/shop/IMG_6771_zpsqzr99bdj.jpg

[Jim Becker]

Marty Schlosser: BINGO! I believe that Felder has a list of referrals.

Yes, MinMax does that, too...a company almost cannot sell this kind of machinery without having customers do the "Vanna White" thing. I've had a number of folks come visit to see the tools up close, even when it's not the specific machine they are considering. Felder, MiniMax, etc., all provide high quality stuff and looking at any "similar" machine in the line can give a prospective customer a good feel for what it will be like when they make their own choice that best fits their needs. Since this is not "mass market" product, other than an extremely limited number of corporate show rooms around the world, existing customers and occasional trade show events are pretty much the only way to see and fondle the gear up close and personal.

[Mike Heidrick]

Many of the saws recommended here are far and away different from a $4k-$5k slider new. Go put your hands on the saw you have space for and can afford. Huge differences in a $4k vs a $15k slider. The 700series and up Felder is a sweet machine and some like the Alt, Martin, and high end SCMIs are just dream saws. No matter what slider I get someday, I will prob never sell my ICS. I am just programed to like the NA cabinet. First step was building a shop large enough for the full motion of a 10' slider and keep a full cabinet saw.

[jack duren]

Powermatic sliders can still be found on the cheap. The company I work for will eventually sell ours for a new beam saw. Hopefully this year...

[Jim Andrew]

I planned to sell my unisaw after purchasing a K3 Winner, but wound up keeping it, and enjoy having both a small slider and a cabinet saw. Have not picked up a dado for the Hammer, as I have an 8" Oshlun set that fits the unisaw. Find the slider works great for cutting a straight edge on a piece of solid lumber, glue ready in one cut. Also recommend you order some Tenryu blades from Carbide Processors. And my slider crosscuts amazingly square. Can measure diagonal distances across a panel and it is near perfect.

[Martin Wasner]

Powermatic sliders can still be found on the cheap. The company I work for will eventually sell ours for a new beam saw. Hopefully this year...


If we're talking about the same saw, its a Robland. Meh saw.

[John Lankers]

Thanks, John. I appreciate the explanation...it makes perfect sense! 99% of the time, I've use the standard miter fence on my MM slider for normal "dead nuts" 90º cuts, but for a commission I'm currently building, I needed to actually use it for angled cuts at 15º. Like I do when I have the blade tilted, I utilized a sacrificial fence clamped to the unit to provide perfect registration to the blade path. (something I always did with the cabinet saw and the Incra miter I used with it) I suspect you'd do the same with the Incra on the slider wagon. The miter unit I'm referring to can be seen on the right side of this photo...



Absolutely, occasionally I even use blue tape when a backer board won't work :).
The Incra is just easier to set for small picture frames or other intricate cuts, especially for compound miters - not necessarily more accurate.

[Alan Trout]

I recently moved from a small slider that I had since 1997 to a Sawstop PCS. There were things that I just could not do with the small slider that I wanted to do. I could not cut dados or larger panels etc. I have not regretted my decision. For what I make and the way that I work the cabinet saw just is a better fit. If I had the room for a full size slider. I would have one. They are great at what they do especially if you are cutting tons of sheet goods. I have friends with full size sliders and they are awesome. Now I just use my track saw when I need to cut sheet goods and happily use my PCS for everything else. While I agree that a cabinet saw is not great at many things it is plenty good and super versatile for most task that a hobby, or one man shop furniture maker needs. I like to say I am a Semi-Pro. I have a day business that pays my bills and at night I make wood art for sale that pays for most of my shop, I also make some furniture and cabinets for myself so the amount I use my saw I will never wear it out and it serves my needs perfectly. The grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence.

[James Zhu]

Here are pictures of my Incra miter gauge on my Felder KF700 S Pro

I see, nice! You do have a little modification :) Thanks for sharing.

James

[marty shultz]

Like many of you I used a unisaw for 25 years before buying a felder 741 combo machine. I was planning on selling the unisaw but decided to keep it since I had the space. I now use the unisaw, equiped with a power feeder, for ripping/dados. The slider is used for everything else. For the most part this combination saves changeover -time of the blades and fences.

I purchased the slider used and my complaints are:

1) the slider won't handle a 8' long board
2) the smaller cross cut fence is very difficult to square to the blade so I keep the long fence mounted.

I also have a track saw. If I could only have one saw I would take the slider (space permitting).

[Jim Becker]

2) the smaller cross cut fence is very difficult to square to the blade so I keep the long fence mounted.
I have the exact opposite situation with my MM slide...the smaller cross-cut/miter fence is dead-nuts on no matter what or how many times I remove it and re-install it. The fence on the outrigger takes effort to get and keep square. :) So I stopped removing the outrigger to avoid that.

[Chris Parks]

1) the slider won't handle a 8' long board


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--M-Iz2pw1k

[Rod Sheridan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--M-Iz2pw1k

Another location is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL54SR0nXgM

at the 1:59 mark, it shows the Hammer accessory for straight lining longer boards..............Rod.

[Jim Andrew]

I bought the 79x48 Hammer slider so I could straight line rip longer boards, but think for most use a 48x48 would be the way to go. Like others, I kept the old Unisaw.