S2S milling vs true and flat

[Adam Way]

I'm purchasing my first wood order from a hardwood supplier. I've always purchased S4S from the local big box store for small projects. In this project, I need to order some 8/4 x 4" and 8/4 x 6" boards, 6'-8' long. I only have a small 6" bench jointer (28" table) that I don't think would do much of a job for truing boards of this length. I am considering having the supplier mill the boards for S2S or S3S/S2SR1E.

My question is this: Will S2S+ milling produce 2 faces that are true and straight, or only parallel? They have described the S2S milling as running it through their planer. I know my planer wouldn't true faces, but is theirs capable of doing this or am I stuck buying S4S?

[Mel Fulks]

Going thru the moulder you have an offset base that allows for some real straightening. It's not equal to facing the stuff on a jointer ,but it's better than just planing. I know that I can produce better work with even a modest jointer and planer than what can be done with a moulder. And I'm betting you can

[Andy Giddings]

Think you'll find that a lot of woodworkers can manage without a jointer. As long as you have a planer to handle rough wood you can produce excellent projects - just need to be a lot more careful in the selection of the material. Even if you had a wide long base jointer, and used it to get the 6-8 ft long boards straight, they are unlikely to remain dead straight

[Tim Bueler]

Adam, I have a small custom cabinet shop (stress small) and order only a few hundred bdft at a time of whatever species the customer wants. I use mostly 4/4 stock but have my supplier mill it to 13/16" with SLR (straight line rip). I have a decent jointer and HH planer but for what little they charge it's just not worth it, to me, to do it myself. Out of a few thousand bdft used this year I think there's been maybe 5 boards that were problematic. I've been generally happy with thickness, straightness and flatness. I imagine that could vary from supplier to supplier.

[John TenEyck]

I used to regularly face joint boards at least that large on my Inca J/P which only had beds 32" long, total. Yes, my new MiniMax with 60" bed length makes it a lot easier, but I somehow I managed with the Inca for 25 years. If you need to set up an infeed and outfeed stand to assist you, OK, do it.

People did and still true really long boards with a hand plane. With good set up, your jointer should do the job, and a lot more easily.

John

[Darcy Warner]

Order them skip planed and r1e. That should do it. I use my jointers all the time, currently I have a 30", 20" and 16"

[Sam Puhalovich]

Before I got my 12" jointer ... I very successfully used a sled with the planer (thicknesser) for flattening boards up-to 4' long.
Having the sled ... I just bought rough-sawn.
There are several configurations for doing this.
Google 'planer flattening sled' for many 'hits'.

[Ryan Jones]

Everyone should have a good hand plane, at least #5 or higher, and learn how to use it to flatten boards. A hand plane doesn't care how long a board is, as long as the user's skill is there.

[Robin Frierson]

I thinks its always best to mill it yourself after its cut to rough width and rough length, Before I had a jointer I would order milled lumber and it got banged up, dents on the freshly milled surface and then it would move once it adjusted to my heated and cooled shop. You can plane lumber flat without a jointer by making it not rock or move as it goes through the planer, using a sled as many have suggested. What are you building that requires such long lengths? Or do you plan to cut up those 6-8fters.

[Jim Becker]

I'm very much a "flat and true" proponent, but it's a fact that many folks may not have the machine capacity to flatten wider and longer lumber in their home shop. So that means being a lot more careful in material selection, whether it's buying S2S stock directly, using alternative techniques for flattening or having someone else mill it that way. Robin's mention of using a sled with a thickness planer is a good one and it will support "reasonable" length material for general projects with no problem. Getting that one face flat first makes for a happy project that glues up easier than banana-boards will. :)

[Adam Way]

What are you building that requires such long lengths? Or do you plan to cut up those 6-8fters.

Robin,
It is a "Pottery Barn"-style dining room table, which requires 6 x 2x6" boards 63" long. I assume, to compensate for snipe etc., they need to be about 6' long. The rest of the boards can be cut to smaller sizes before milling.



If you need to set up an infeed and outfeed stand to assist you, OK, do it.

John,
I've tried setting up an infeed table, but I've never been able to really get anything that seemed satisfactory (straight, really level with the jointer, and stable while moving the stock). I think I may start a separate thread to see if anyone else has had any luck setting up infeed for a small bench jointer....or, justify that new jointer I've been looking at. :) Unfortunately, I run my jointer on top of a stand that puts its table about 42" high. I've also tried roller stands, but obviously they don't support the stock and keep it level as the board moves.

[Tim Bueler]

Adam, another method I haven't seen mentioned yet is to use a router. Tack/clamp a straight edge to your boards for "jointing" and use a straight bit in a router. You could then glue up your table top (assuming the boards you get aren't too warped) then build a "sled" to flatten the whole top using the router and straight bit. It's not fast but it works well in the absence of expensive machinery.

[Brian Brightwell]

The quality of my work went up when I got my 16inch jointer and then again when I got a wide belt sander. Just the facts.LOL.

[Jim Dwight]

I have an Inca jointer which is 8 5/8 wide but pretty short. When I try to flatten a face first, I usually end up with a board too thin for my project. Undoubtedly my technique could improve but I think most of the issue is the rough sawn boards have too much twist and bow to finish out at 3/4. Cutting to rough dimensions first helps a lot but I doubt I could get 6 foot long by 6 inch wide pieces truly flat. Smaller pieces, like for a door, are not an issue. So I just use my 10 inch wide (AP-10) lunchbox planner most of the time. For something like a table top, I put in biscuits (not because I think they are best but because they are easy) to help align the pieces during glueup. The resultant pieces are very usable but often have a bit of twist or bow that is removed when they are fastened into the project.

While I think traditional one face and one edge on the jointer is best I usually don't do it. So surfaced two sides lumber is at least as good as my work a lot of the time. But buying rough allows me to choose when I use just the planner and when I wheel out the jointer and do it right. I never get an edge ripped or planed. Track saw does that nicely and sometimes saves some wood (by cutting shorter first).

[glenn bradley]

I've also tried roller stands, but obviously they don't support the stock and keep it level as the board moves.

I use roller stands with my 8" jointer when I have to joint long stock. If the roller stands were not keeping the feed path true I would look to better stands. I guess I should say that my stands have an eccentric foot that allows me to stabilize them and level them on my uneven garage floor.

You have hit on the one thing I always look for in these threads. Trying to joint the whole board instead of breaking it down into manageable parts. Your half a dozen 63" long boards sound like the main challenge.

Perhaps you can knock out a couple of quick supports that would clamp to the work surface your planer is on(?). You could probably make them in just a little more time than it took to draw this and they would serve you for this project and others to come.

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