Build Kitchen Base Cabinets In Place?

[Bill Space]

Hi Guys,

I am just wondering if building kitchen base cabinets in place is a crazy idea or not...

Years ago, before I had any real woodworking skills beyond house building carpentry work, I built the base cabinets in our kitchen in place (along with the rest of the house from the ground up But that is a different story...).

Several years ago I bought the property next door, which has a ranch style house on it that I have been renovating in my spare time as a retiree. I bought the property to ensure that an undesirable would not end up living there, if you know what I mean.

Now i am getting close to worrying about what to do in the kitchen. Don't have to start tomorrow but I like to think about things before I get to them.

I will build the upper cabinets in my shop and hang them as is the normal case. But my gut feeling is that I might be better off building the base units in place. I know this is not the commercial way to do things.

Is this a crazy idea? It worked pretty well for me the first time...when my skill level was much less than it is now. Does anyone ever do this?

Appreciate your thoughts and experience!

Bill

[George Bokros]

Why not just assemble in place. Build them in your shop except for the final glued up assembly, do that in house next door. easier to carry the components than fully assembled cabinets. Why not even do that with the uppers?

That is what I would do.

[mark mcfarlane]

I had a custom kitchen built for us about 30 years ago and the carpenter built lowers and uppers in place. He put up 1/2" plywood on all the walls, floor to ceiling, then secured the plywood well to the studs, then just nailed everything into the plywood. The existing walls were lathe and plaster. It went extremely fast, maybe 3-5 days for the carcasses, another 3-4 days for the face frames (milled using an old Delta bench top planer). He contracted out the drawers, doors and finishing. Finished in place beautifully.

[Jim Andrew]

I built some cabinets in place about 40 years ago. Just nailed everything together. Now I cut grooves in my plywood, and glue and use power nails. The grooves make cabinets much more durable, but there is one downside to installing prebuilt boxes. That is using shims to align the boxes. In the old days, I nailed the pieces to the wall as I went, and cut blocks to fill under low places as I went. Now I have to glue shims under the boxes as I go, if the floor is out of level. One thing that might help a little, is just to install the boxes as you go, and put the doors and drawers in later, after you get all the boxes installed and fastened together.

[John Lankers]

House next door, you're not up against a deadline - why not do what works best for you.

[Bill Space]

Why not just assemble in place. Build them in your shop except for the final glued up assembly, do that in house next door. easier to carry the components than fully assembled cabinets. Why not even do that with the uppers?

That is what I would do.

George, I think in my mind "assemble in place" and "build in place" are about the same thing. No doubt I would cut a lot of the pieces in my shop as the tools are better there.

I had great results building new upper cabinets (to replace the original ones I built for our house years ago) using a modular approach, based on an 8' length, which yielded three sections each 32" wide, with six doors 16" wide. I would like to duplicate this design for the uppers (next door) and found the installation easy (if I remember right, it's been about ten years).

As an aside, the house next door is about 300 or 400 feet away. Takes some time walking back and forth...😀

Bill

[Bill Space]

Mark,

Glad to hear that you were satisfied with the results of the build in place approach!

Bill

[Jim Becker]

I'd still build the carcasses in the shop because it's more convenient. But I'll also suggest you make your base/toe kick separate from the boxes so you can level it first and then fasten the boxes to it, especially for a renovation where things might not be, um...straight and level. ;)

[Jim Dwight]

The last house we lived in was built for my late wife and me in 1999 when we moved to SC. The trim carpenter built the cabinets in place. That was handy when my wife wanted a cabinet over the toilet in the kids bathroom and the helper threw one together from scrap in about 15 minutes. They were all butt joints glued and pneumatic nailed. Materials were 3/4 birch plywood and softwood shelving boards. Drawers were made of the softwood. Doors were built by somebody else. They put nice moldings on them and they looked pretty good - as long as you didn't look too close. They held up just fine.

If that is what you are comfortable with, I don't see why you can't do it. It could save a bunch of walking to use a track saw to cut up the plywood at the house you're working on. It's nice to have table saw too but to make basic boxes our of plywood, all you really need is the track saw (and nails or screws to put them together with).

The one kitchen I've made was not built in place. I made the boxes out of 3/4 oak plywood without face frames. Doors were solid oak and full overlay. I built the cabinets a few at a time in my workshop in the basement and then took the old cabinet out and replaced it. That kept the space required lower so I could manage. I screwed and glued those cabinets together and plugged the screw holes where they would have showed. My wife like them and they worked well for us. If I was building more, I would probably make them the same way. I'd add a face frame if the current wife wanted one but I don't think they are necessary when you use 3/4 for the boxes.

[Gregory King]

So we're assuming the floors are not level. Which they probably are not. Sounds like building them in place would require a lot of scribing to the backs and bottoms. Part way thru the build, you might wish to rethink the plan. Why not build them in the shop and leave any exposed end panels to add after the build. You can scribe them on site for a nice neat fit. Greg

[Bill Space]

I'd still build the carcasses in the shop because it's more convenient. But I'll also suggest you make your base/toe kick separate from the boxes so you can level it first and then fasten the boxes to it, especially for a renovation where things might not be, um...straight and level. ;)

Jim,

I like the idea of making the base separate from whatever is mounted above it, especially because I am bringing the heater duct up under the cabinets and the heated air will enter the kitchen via the toe kick area. So I need to deal with ducting issues.

Doing what you suggested would allow me to produce a flat, level surface to which the cabinets could be mounted to, regardless of whether I build them as boxes in my shop or on location.

One issue I have is my shop is so full of tools that I don't have much room to work in it! Before retiring three years ago I decided I was going to buy every woodworking and metal working tool that I could, before I quit working (98% used, the tools not me). Happy to say I accomplished my goal, ha ha! But the net result has made working in the shop rather difficult…

Great input. Thanks!

Bill

[Bill Space]

So we're assuming the floors are not level. Which they probably are not. Sounds like building them in place would require a lot of scribing to the backs and bottoms. Part way thru the build, you might wish to rethink the plan. Why not build them in the shop and leave any exposed end panels to add after the build. You can scribe them on site for a nice neat fit. Greg

Gregory,

It seems that if I made a flat surface base, then scribing in the vertical direction would be minimal. Granted, the vertical surface of the toe kick might very along the length of the cabinets, due to the nature of the floor. But due to the setback I don't think this would be noticed much.

Initially in my mind I was comparing doing separate boxes, which would include the toe kick, and which would be joined together in a line up, against something along the lines Jim described above.

At this point I am tending to conclude that it might be best to first build a flat base, to which I could either build-in-place boxes, or set shop made boxes on top of it.

This discussion is a great help to me! Thanks for all the input so far. Please keep the ideas coming they are highly appreciated and very helpful!

Bill

[Ed Edwards]

+1 for Jim's way of doing it. That's the I did it, build on a flat deck, install them on a grid the height of the toe kick

Ed

[Robert Engel]

Bill, I wouldn't build them in place for a few reasons. 1) Any faults or variations in the walls might reverberate into your cabinets and you won't know it till you start mounting doors and find there is a twist somewhere. 2) If your going to precut the parts and tote them over to the house, what are you saving?

In summary, building in your shop will be faster, more convenient, and result in a better install.

Couple other things to consider:

1) I really like the adjustable levelers rather than building bases. They really make levelling cabs a snap.

2) We have a couple construction salvage type places where I live and cabinets can be bought for a dime on the dollar. Of course you have to fit the kitchen to the cabs, so it depends on your layout but if you can find something suitable it can save you quite a bit of money.

3) Home Depot & Lowes actually carry some decent lines of cabinets (no I would never put them in my house, but this is a rental). Even though they may be 3-4 X the cost vs building them yourself, if you're doing cope and stick doors, by the time your done, you may change your mind.

[mark mcfarlane]

...

3) Home Depot & Lowes actually carry some decent lines of cabinets (no I would never put them in my house, but this is a rental). Even though they may be 3-4 X the cost vs building them yourself, if you're doing cope and stick doors, by the time your done, you may change your mind.

FWIW, I checked out the entry level cabinets at Lowes and Home Depot a few weeks ago. I couldn't even bring myself to putting them in my garage. Thin particle board carcasses, really cheap hardware, the drawers racked, the drawer guides were mounted to the back of the cabinets, which were something like 1/8" hardboard, with staples. I doubt they will hold up once you put 20 pounds of utensils in the drawers.

Maybe they have a better quality, the stuff I was looking at was around $250-300 for a 30" base cabinet.

Depending on how wavy the walls are, if you put up 1/2" or 3/4" plywood on the walls you may be able to even them out enough to build in place, or not...

[Gregory King]

I like shop built units for the simple reason that you can attach a sturdy back to them. The back keeps the gables from racking and shifting their position, obviously. Can't install a decent back on site when you are stick framing the gables. Greg

[Peter Aeschliman]

FWIW, I checked out the entry level cabinets at Lowes and Home Depot a few weeks ago. I couldn't even bring myself to putting them in my garage. Thin particle board carcasses, really cheap hardware, the drawers racked, the drawer guides were mounted to the back of the cabinets, which were something like 1/8" hardboard, with staples. I doubt they will hold up once you put 20 pounds of utensils in the drawers.

Maybe they have a better quality, the stuff I was looking at was around $250-300 for a 30" base cabinet.


I happened to walk by those cabinets in my local HD the other day. I took about 3 seconds looking at them before I concluded that they were absolute garbage. Then I saw the price tag and said "what the [bleep]?" under my breath.

Blew me away that they were selling that garbage for such an insane price. I mean, if they had decent hardware I could start to understand. Ikea cabinets are many leagues above that junk.

/rant. :)

[Kevin McCluney]

I built the kitchens at my previous and current houses in place. It took less wood than building them in the shop and installing them - there are no backs (just the wall), and they're contiguous for long stretches (fewer sides). That also helps maximize storage space.

[Jim Becker]

For those few times when I couldn't or didn't want to build interior cabinets for utility purposes...I chose those from Ikea. Why? Their kitchen cabinets are pretty well designed and the Blum hardware they provide (including metal Blum drawers) is nice, soft-close, high-quality hardware. My only complaint is that unlike building my own, the grain matching for doors and drawer fronts isn't to the liking of my anal mind. I much prefer to build, but sometimes life intervenes. ;) No way would I buy the lower end, but still pricy stuff from the homes centers. 'Just not "impressed" with the quality.

[Jim Dwight]

We're deviating a bit but Ikea are still particle board. I'm thinking of Lily Ann knock down stuff (like Ikea) that use plywood. Sides are 1/2 but they have a face frame so it should work. My wife won't wait for me to make the cabinets (in place or otherwise) so these look like the best alternative for us. There are other brands of the Chinese plywood knock downs but the sizing of the Lily Ann seems to work better for what we have in mind. If I go this way, I will probably buy the sink base - or another base - first to make sure I can live with the construction.

[Bill Space]

I appreciate all the helpful ideas!

In my case the back wall studs are exposed and the back wall is plum and straight. The floor is irregular, as to be expected in a house that is almost 70 years old.

I don't think that I want to buy cabinets, although that would be the faster approach. I am going to leave that option open in my mind though, since I won't be at the point of doing anything on the cabinets until spring at the earliest.

Another thing is that I have about 300 board foot of 4/4 Ash that was cut from a tree on the property, and I'd like to make the cabinet faces using that wood. It cost me a little time and about $.60 a board foot to have it cut and kiln dried a couple years ago. So the price is right and it will feel good using that wood...

Bill

[Jim Dwight]

Already having the wood is a great reason to make it yourself! You might want to make he doors out of the ash too. I did one kitchen with a router to make the rails and stile joints and raise the panels. I would prefer to do flat panels if I did it again but if my wife was patient enough, I'd build this one too. A decent router table and table saw are about all you need to make doors.

[Jim Becker]

Already having the wood is a great reason to make it yourself!

I 100% agree with this...such a significant break on material cost truly helps make up for the time required if the time is available.

[Ken Combs]

built in place cabinets where the norm in my area through 70s and into the 80s. I've done several usually over drywalled walls. As others have stated, a separate base set level makes the best install. I always used a ply or lumber strip 12" wide on the wall set at the correct height and level as the starting point. That provides a solid mount for the rear of the top drawer slides and assures the top is level.

I used to do these for builders when they found the walls as framed by their crews were just too wavy for out of the box cabs to look halfway decent.