Repairing Hand Plane Tote Question

[Mark R Webster]

Hi guys looking for a little help. I am repairing a few totes for some old hand planes. The dilemma is this, I have a couple where the whole top end will have to be replaced. I will need to re-drill the hole for the rod through the new section of wood starting from the bottom existing hole. The problem comes when trying to center the counter sunk area for the brass nut. Any suggestions. The perfect solution would be a 29/64 forstner with an unfluted 9/32 pilot to center it. I know I know… good luck with that. Ideas? How have you guys solved this?

[Jim Koepke]

Hi guys looking for a little help. I am repairing a few totes for some old hand planes. The dilemma is this, I have a couple where the whole top end will have to be replaced. I will need to re-drill the hole for the rod through the new section of wood starting from the bottom existing hole. The problem comes when trying to center the counter sunk area for the brass nut. Any suggestions. The perfect solution would be a 29/64 forstner with an unfluted 9/32 pilot to center it. I know I know… good luck with that. Ideas? How have you guys solved this?

Here I thought a 7/16 forstner was hard to find...

If you have a drill press the easy way is something that was in the instructions with my Ron Bontz saw plate, use the smaller bit to set up the piece clamped or in a vise on a drill press, then remove the bit without moving the work. Insert the larger bit and it should be on the hole's center. With this method, the small hole can be drilled from the bottom and then the tote flipped and lined up with the bit, power off of course, and then the bits changed.

Without a drill press it will be a bit of a trick to get one hole centered on the other. In this case it is easier to drill with the forstner first and then center the smaller bit on the center mark left by the forstner bit.

jtk

[Mark R Webster]

Hi Jim, that sound like a pretty good solution. I have a drill press so I should be ok. Yea ...forstner first would have been better but the small hole will already be there.
Thanks
Mark

[Jim Koepke]

You are welcome Mark, it is something I learned because I read the instructions before making a saw handle this week.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Have been known to regrind an old spade bit to match the brass part's size. The tip would go into the shaft's hole nicely. I have had to tilt the table on the drill press to match the angle, as well. Had to mark on the spade bit a stop line, so I didn't go too deep.

[Mark R Webster]

Fortunate for me :)

[Mark R Webster]

Thought about that as a solution, but I was concerned about tear out. Thanks Steven.
Mark

[Greg Wease]

If you plan to do a lot of these you might want to invest in a piloted counterbore. The closest I found is 7/16" with either 9/32" or 1/4" pilot. I don't recall the price but Victor Machinery was the source. You might spring for a #12-20 tap from Victor as well to chase the threads in a Stanley base for the handles and frog screws.
.

[Mark R Webster]

Hi Greg, I is the piloted counterbore the solid type or the counterbore interchangeable pilot?

[Jim Koepke]

I have dealt with Victor in the past. They had good phone support help when I bought from them. A quick look at their pages indicates they have many of the counter bores in steps of 1/64". They also have a $25 minimum last time I bought from them, so look through the site and see what else you need. I bought some extra 12-20 taps from them so one could be ground down for a bottoming tap. For plane taps you need to have that.

jtk

[Greg Wease]

Hi Greg, I is the piloted counterbore the solid type or the counterbore interchangeable pilot?

I have the interchangeable type.

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Jim and Greg, after looking at the Victor site, as best I can tell I want a 7/16"High Speed Steel Interchangeable Pilot Straight Shank Counterbore and a 9/32" Pilot Diameter x5/32" Shank Pilot for Counterbore

[Mark R Webster]

Sorry we were posting at the same time.

[Mark R Webster]

I ordered a piloted counterbore today and in doing so discovered that you can in most cases get them in 1/64 increments up to an inch I think. So I was able to get a 29/64" Pretty cool.

[Stew Denton]

Mark,

I am fairly sure you already know this, but though to post it anyway, just in case of the slight chance that a quick reminder would be appreciated.

When you repair the tote by glue up of an added piece to the top, drilling out, and then shaping, be sure to cut the added piece so that when you glue it on, that the flat surface of the added piece ends up facing up at a 90 degree angle to the long axis of the bit, that is at a 90 degree angle once you have it secured in the drill press.

I know Forsners will cut at an angle, but life is easier if you don't have to. After you have the hole bored for the brass nut, then work the top down to the needed profile, and as you know, this approach will also reduce tear out.

Like I say, not meaning to offend by mentioning the obvious, but thought to add it anyway just in case. Hope the repair turns out nicely for you.

Regards,

Stew

[Mark R Webster]

Good reminder Stew, appreciate it, it is very hard to offend me :D

[Kevin Hampshire]

Hi guys looking for a little help. I am repairing a few totes for some old hand planes. The dilemma is this, I have a couple where the whole top end will have to be replaced. I will need to re-drill the hole for the rod through the new section of wood starting from the bottom existing hole. The problem comes when trying to center the counter sunk area for the brass nut. Any suggestions. The perfect solution would be a 29/64 forstner with an unfluted 9/32 pilot to center it. I know I know… good luck with that. Ideas? How have you guys solved this?


Mark, Are you going to drill from the bottom of the tote up through the top of the totes?

[Mark R Webster]

That was the plan.

[lowell holmes]

Or contact Highland Woodworking

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/rosewoodplanehandleset.aspx

[Kevin Hampshire]

Mark, There is a method that gunsmiths use to avoid runout of the exit hole and to place the top (or show) hole exactly where you want it. It's pretty simple and almost fool proof but any error would be hidden in the tote.

Let me know If you're interested and I'll sketch up an explanation. I've used it but never taken any pictures.

[Mark R Webster]

Sounds interesting, if you have time. The first primary hole I tried to drill from the bottom (to my surprise) didn't come out in the center new top portion, even though the majority of the original hole was present to act as a guide. The bit diameter was as close as I could get it to the size of the existing hole.

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on interest in the method of getting more accurate hole drilling. I have tried drilling from both ends with varying success.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Somedays, the repair doesn't quite need drilled,
350095
On this one, the new Walnut just misses the old hole. Sometimes, I just get lucky....
350096
Fulton #3 (Sargent 408)

On the times where I have to drill a new hole, I use a smaller bit to chase the hole from below. then come back with the correct sized bit from the top. IF I need to, I can plane down a bit, and make the patch a bit thicker than needed. What I try to avoid is where a patch only covers a part of the top hole.....almost a guaranty to end ugly. The one in the pictures stopped right behind the top hole.

[Mark R Webster]

Sounds like an option :)

[lowell holmes]

I have ground spade bits to side with good results. It is a quick task to accomplish. Try drilling the hole on a waste block of wood.

You could make the handle long, leaving a thick portion at the top of the handle. Then drill the expanded hoie to depth.
After drilling the expanded hole, then shape the handle top.

[Kevin Hampshire]

Sorry I haven't posted that explanation yet. Family and friends are making Christmas and the time pass too quickly!

I should be able to post by Tuesday. I think you will find it to be a helpful technique.


EDIT:
I found the source for the tool I use. I highly recommend it if you have the need to drill a hole that must precisely enter and exit from specific points. I've found it to be an extremely accurate method. It has to be perfect whenever you're drilling into wood and metal bits that you have thousands in.

It will work equally well for a plane tote. If you understand how it works, you don't need the tool and knowing how to use it solves the problem. You do need a drill press.

350130
This is the bottom of the tool. Some all thread with a point on the end. Could be made with a drywall screw or a bolt. The tip could be sharpened or for repairing a tote, it can be a bolt that you find the center of the end on. The tool uses a concentric cone mounted in the drill chuck to align everything. Not essential, but very handy.

For my last tote repair, I think I drilled a hole into a block of wood (clamped to the drill press table) with the size drill bit I was going to use. I then placed the bit upside down into the block of wood. I used a second (same size) bit to drill the hole in the tote.

The key is that the lower bit (in the block of wood) and the chucked bit should now be in perfect alignment. Place the tote on the bottom bit. Check that your hole from the top of the tote is on center and drill. Don't drill so deep that you drill into your lower bit!


Here is the info and directions for the guide I use and can highly recommend.

"Center to Center Drilling Guide" item #0883
R. E. Davis Company
http://www.redaviscompany.com/0883.html

Disclaimer: I have no connections to this company

[Skip Helms]

I fixed a tote like yours. I found it was a lot easier to make the patch with the 7/16" hole already drilled. To get the surface of the tote level, I bolted it to a sled and ran it through the table saw first. Then all I had to do was align the patch with the tote and glue it in place.

Attached is a picture that just needed a partial tip. For that, I left some material on the cocobolo patch for tearout. Then I chucked the biggest aircraft bit that would still slide in the channel and slipped the tote on upside-down. I clamped that in a screw-clamp, clamped the assembly to the table and turned on the drill press. To align the nut hole, I flipped it right-side up, chucked a shorter bit with the same diameter as the aircraft bit and realigned it the same as before. Then I replaced the bit with a 7/16" brad-point bit (with spur sides) and reamed the nut hole. You can still see the seam but Brazilian -- even scraps -- is too precious for totes.

Good luck, sh

350141

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks Kevin for taking the time to share this method.

jtk

[Kevin Hampshire]

Jim, You're too kind. I'm afraid my explanation was more rambling and less coherent than I intended it to be. I was rushing to get an explanation out before things got busy around the house.

If Mark or anyone else would like further clarification, I'll try to clean up
The explanation.

[Mark R Webster]

Very helpful thank you very much Kevin!

[Mark R Webster]

Very nice Skip!! thanks
Mark

[steven c newman]

I used to "chase" the old holes up through the top with just an old screwdriver tip. I had a LONG Phillips #2 that the plastic handle had split off. I reground the end into a more pointy affair. I could set the handle upside down on the Drill Press, and run the bit down the existing hole. When the tip just barely pokes it's way through the other end, it shows my where the center of the top hole is. The shaft of the old tip would not cut a new hole, but it did great at following the existing hole. I could even slip the handle onto the tip, run the handle up until it hits the solid wood part. Clamp it in place so the handle wouldn't move, turn the dp on, and finish the hole. Flip the handle upright, chuck in the reground spade bit, and drill the nut hole. The tip of the spade bit would follow the existing hole. Kind of slow, but there wasn't any need to rush...

[Mark R Webster]

Food for thought, nothing beats hands on experience!! Thanks Steven