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Ron Philman
12-21-2016, 9:45 AM
Does anyone have any insight or performance review of Full Spectrums latest hobby laser 'Muse'? Found out its $5,500-6,500 for a 40watt glass tube desktop - seems high. That's about 2-3x more than the Glowforge which FS looks to be emulating. But, pretty slick lookin!

http://fslaser.com/Muse

Keith Downing
12-21-2016, 3:06 PM
Does anyone have any insight or performance review of Full Spectrums latest hobby laser 'Muse'? Found out its $5,500-6,500 for a 40watt glass tube desktop - seems high. That's about 2-3x more than the Glowforge which FS looks to be emulating. But, pretty slick lookin!

http://fslaser.com/Muse

Looks like trying to emulate Glowforge is exactly what they are trying to do. Unfortunately, glowforge hasn't exactly been a success story so far.

I personally would not buy a laser that doesn't have: external exhaust, true air assist, a moveable z axis, or a pass through of some type.

You just aren't going to be able to do much of anything without those features even if it does work as advertised (which I highly doubt at this point in time). I got a good laugh at them including cutting acrylic as a feature. Good luck doing that with no way to vent the fumes out of the room.

Clark Pace
12-21-2016, 3:16 PM
Well that is a kick. Fs sued hurricane laser back in the day for copying thsm. Now fs seems to want to copy gf.

David Somers
12-21-2016, 4:01 PM
Ron,

If you are truly interested in what the Glow Forge is supposed to be offering I might wait until it is out and been running in consumers hands a bit. Let others be on the bleeding edge with this. As for Full Spectrum....you may want to search for them on this and other forums and see what experiences people are having. I do not have an FS machine so I can't personally attest to their product good or bad. Others have written at length about their direct experiences though. I agree with Keith on his requirements for a machine. But then you may have more specific interests in what you will do with a machine. For a 40 watt machine though the price seems high to me.

Have you considered what you want to do with it? Hobby use? Small business? Mostly cutting? Mostly engraving? A mixture? What materials and what thicknesses overall? What kinds of throughput do you need if this is a business? Is time to completion a big factor? Any work on cylinders planned?

Folks will help if you want to answer. But I was mostly asking that all rhetorically in case you hadn't gotten that far yet and were just intrigued by the overall features listed for the Glowforge and FS machine.

Jerome Stanek
12-21-2016, 6:12 PM
If you are waiting for the Glowforge you will have to wait till late next year at least if they start shipping when they said

Bert McMahan
12-21-2016, 6:30 PM
I own a couple FSL machines, their 4th gen and 5th gen hobby lasers. Their hardware isn't great but it's reasonably solid, and the 5th gen is an in-house design, not a retrofit of a Chinese K40 (like their gen 4).

They are apparently selling the Muse along with their gen 5 hobby laser, which is around $3500. Still expensive compared to a Chinese unit but it is an American company so you'd expect to pay more. Whether it's worth the premium or not is of course up to the individual- I know enough about lasering now to get a Chinese unit for my next one, but I don't regret learning on those as the software is actually pretty good. I believe the Muse is supposed to be their "premium" hobby line, and I have no idea how they can justify such a high cost. The camera thing is (IMHO) no way worth a $3000 premium.

Keith are you saying this about the Glowforge or the Muse?


I personally would not buy a laser that doesn't have: external exhaust, true air assist, a moveable z axis, or a pass through of some type.

I don't know much about the Glowforge but the Muse has external exhaust. The Z axis is a lens adjustment not a bed adjustment so not great but not too bad. The base also comes off, so while it's not a "pass through" you can operate on larger pieces without too much trouble. Air assist is fine for fire suppression but it's not a close-range directed blast so you don't get the speed benefits offered by close nozzles on nicer machines.

Regarding their support, apparently they have done much better in the last year or two. Most of the people that had really bad experiences were telling their stories from a few years back. I don't know if they've changed since then or not, but I don't see a lot of "fresh" angry stories from FSL users.

John Lifer
12-21-2016, 8:19 PM
Really? Your going to turn your laser over and remove the bottom each time you want to laser an object that is over a coupe of inches thick? NOT! That is what turned me off of the FS lasers.

Kev Williams
12-21-2016, 8:53 PM
I have to pull the 50# or so table out of my Triumph to do anything over 2" tall- While that is somewhat of a pain, I've gotten used to it. And because it's removable with no table-raising apparatus in the vicinity, I'm able to engrave items with it most other machine's can't.

Silver lining thing ;)

David Somers
12-21-2016, 8:56 PM
Bert....I do see the air assist photos in the Muse photos on the FS site. But the Exhaust? looks like a standard computer fan grid in the photo. No connection for an external hose with a decent fan to draw air out and send it out of the room? Or am I no looking at the photos quickly enough?

I do hope FS is doing better. I dont wish them ill. Just havent been impressed so far.

Matt McCoy
12-21-2016, 8:58 PM
Really? Your going to turn your laser over and remove the bottom each time you want to laser an object that is over a coupe of inches thick? NOT! That is what turned me off of the FS lasers.

Some have removed the floor and placed onto a base or riser. You can buy one for rotary use/tall pieces or homebrew one that also allows passthrough.

Matt McCoy
12-21-2016, 9:02 PM
Bert....I do see the air assist photos in the Muse photos on the FS site. But the Exhaust? looks like a standard computer fan grid in the photo. No connection for an external hose with a decent fan to draw air out and send it out of the room? Or am I no looking at the photos quickly enough?

I do hope FS is doing better. I dont wish them ill. Just havent been impressed so far.

There's a 4" port in the back. The computer fan is on the side by the power supply.

Ron Philman
12-21-2016, 9:49 PM
Looks like trying to emulate Glowforge is exactly what they are trying to do. Unfortunately, glowforge hasn't exactly been a success story so far.

I personally would not buy a laser that doesn't have: external exhaust, true air assist, a moveable z axis, or a pass through of some type.

You just aren't going to be able to do much of anything without those features even if it does work as advertised (which I highly doubt at this point in time).

Yes, those features I know I'd want too. Without pass thrus you're stuck working inside a big shoe box.

Like GlowForge software it appears Retina Engrave 2 is simple to use but seems more geared for moms/daughters etching Christmas cookies in the kitchen.

Just revisited the Boss LS1416 with 4 pass-thrus, 60W, auto z, air asst, exhaust, etc at around $4k. Ideally I'd like to really cut thru material as well and 60w is a good start.

David Somers
12-21-2016, 10:44 PM
Thanks Matt! Their photos didnt show the exhaust port which scared the heck out of me. My wife would be REALLLLLLLY unkind to me if I vented acrylic fumes into the kitchen.

Dave

Matt McCoy
12-21-2016, 10:54 PM
Thanks Matt! Their photos didnt show the exhaust port which scared the heck out of me. My wife would be REALLLLLLLY unkind to me if I vented acrylic fumes into the kitchen.

Dave

I am surprised she let you set up your lathe in there. Upside is that you could always use it for making gyros.

Keith Downing
12-22-2016, 1:42 AM
Yes, those features I know I'd want too. Without pass thrus you're stuck working inside a big shoe box.

Like GlowForge software it appears Retina Engrave 2 is simple to use but seems more geared for moms/daughters etching Christmas cookies in the kitchen.

Just revisited the Boss LS1416 with 4 pass-thrus, 60W, auto z, air asst, exhaust, etc at around $4k. Ideally I'd like to really cut thru material as well and 60w is a good start.

I think Boss got a new line of lasers from their manufacturer late this year so I'll have to go back and look at that model. But I can tell you that as a company I've been impressed. Things don't always go smoothly with the Chinese hardware, so it's really nice to have someone who will pick up the phone and help with any issues. They've been great about handling the two or three small problems I've had.

Matt McCoy
12-22-2016, 10:49 AM
Like GlowForge software it appears Retina Engrave 2 is simple to use but seems more geared for moms/daughters etching Christmas cookies in the kitchen.

Like the GF, it appears the Muse will print directly from most CAD software using a browser-based interface (Mac/PC).

To be fair, there are skilled members at SMC that also might happen to be moms with daughters which might take offense at your comment.

Bert McMahan
12-22-2016, 11:36 AM
Really? Your going to turn your laser over and remove the bottom each time you want to laser an object that is over a coupe of inches thick? NOT! That is what turned me off of the FS lasers.

Yeah it's definitely not ideal, but it's designed to be a benchtop unit. That said I took the bottom out of mine and just didn't reattach it. Personally I only used it for cutting anyway so I rarely needed the extra height, but I can see how it'd be a pain if you did need to do thicker things.

Bert Kemp
12-22-2016, 12:35 PM
I'm not aloud to talk about FSL but look into a rabbit if you want a decent laser with USA support and parts.

Ron Philman
12-22-2016, 1:50 PM
I think Boss got a new line of lasers from their manufacturer late this year so I'll have to go back and look at that model. But I can tell you that as a company I've been impressed.

Yes not sure when but Boss did their own design/engineering with this new line (Gen5) in house. Very different now.

Jed Lawrie
01-05-2017, 10:22 AM
Anybody know if they started shipping units yet? I think I remember reading that they were going to start in January.

Doug Hoffman
01-05-2017, 6:43 PM
I think they said November earlier. I hope they aren't trying to emulate GF in that aspect also!

Lee DeRaud
02-28-2017, 4:58 PM
Just got an ad flyer from Rockwell showing the Muse. It's a "special order" deal, but Rockler generally shies away from vaporware*, so I'm inclined to think they're shipping now. They're having a demo week after next...if I remember I'll wander by and report back.

(*After their experience in the early days of CarveWright, I can understand why. :-))

Clark Pace
02-28-2017, 5:34 PM
I know a guy that is going to be a reseller. I might get a chance to see one in person. He has not gotten his hands on yet though.

Bryan Spiegel
04-17-2017, 12:01 PM
Ive got a much upgraded 5th gen.

Short list of pros and cond.
Pro:
RE is decent engraving software. 3D engraving is handled very well.
Its a simple enough machine to work on yourself, although, you will be doing so.
Parts can be cheap if you know where to look. Its mostly chinese laser parts, and ebay can be the best source for replacements. Ive been through 2 sets of mirrors, 3 lenses, and on my second tube.

Con:
Their tube ratings are bunk. the 45 is a 40. The 35? A 30. Even the chinese sellers are honest about this, not sure why they have to hide behind peak start wattage.
They dont fix bugs with old software. They go forward generations, leaving bugs out there, and no path to fix for older users. Over at the unofficial forum, they pegged us for a lot of suggestions that seem to have made it into the Muse, but never addressed the issues we stated, for 2 generations of the 5th gen hobby machine.
Materials in the hobby machine are poor. I wore out an X axis in less than 3 months (replaced it with a real linear bearing setup after that)
The Muse has no hard e-stop. Just a touch screen. No idea how that blew past their lawyers or UL listing.
Support and parts can take no time (10.5 hours to my door for one, 2 weeks for another) and seems to have no rhyme or reason.
No real upgrade path for engraving operations. Glass tubes can only go so fast, and there is no upgrade path for the smaller machines to move to RF. Even if they could, the motors and rails are anemic, and doubt they would hold up.

Lee DeRaud
04-17-2017, 12:23 PM
The Muse has no hard e-stop. Just a touch screen. No idea how that blew past their lawyers or UL listing.Doesn't it have a door interlock that keeps the laser from firing? If not, then you may have a point.
Otherwise, note that my ULS doesn't have a hard e-stop for the motion system either, and I'm not sure I've seen a small-bed machine that does. (Unplugging the USB kills it, but all of the control panel buttons have software in the loop.)

Bryan Spiegel
04-17-2017, 12:56 PM
My 5th gen (1.5 gen 5th gen... so confusing) has a hard stop, and all of the FSL machines to date have a big rd button that kills power. A safety interlock to the control board is not good enough if your control board, made for pennies by a toddler in a chinese factory has shorted somehow, or if your stepper has started to slam the gantry into your work because something moved...

Im old fashioned like that. I havent needed to use one in a while, but the lack of one on my flatbed printer has given me grief once.

Kirk Quesnelle
04-17-2017, 6:58 PM
I had a 5th gen to start my business. 8 finally moved to an Epilog. It was a long road of bad tubes and issues. I would give it 3 out of 5

If you can, save for an epilog zing or something. Full spectrum is over priced in my opinion and a lot of headaches

Terry R Peterson
07-11-2017, 6:29 AM
To bring this thread back to current, does anyone have anymore hands on experience with the Muse? For 5 years we ran and sold a business with 3 Epilogs. Now that it's sold, my wife and I decided we want another laser for hobby projects but not at the $12K+ cost of another Epilog. Considering a 5th Gen or Muse. Thoughts? Experiences?

Ron Philman
07-29-2017, 10:51 AM
To bring this thread back to current, does anyone have anymore hands on experience with the Muse? For 5 years we ran and sold a business with 3 Epilogs. Now that it's sold, my wife and I decided we want another laser for hobby projects but not at the $12K+ cost of another Epilog. Considering a 5th Gen or Muse. Thoughts? Experiences?

FS Muse review good/bad after few months use

https://youtu.be/wHMryq17oX8

Matt McCoy
07-29-2017, 12:00 PM
FS Muse review good/bad after few months use

https://youtu.be/wHMryq17oX8

There's another video 5 days later, where his issues were resolved by FS as well.