Looks like I'll be contacting Triumph again, dang fiber laser anyway...

[Kev Williams]

heh heh... probably not what you thinking :D == No, the fiber hasn't messed up again, yet. It's still performing perfectly... :)

What's wrong with my 'dang fiber laser' is I have more work piling up for it than I or it can keep up with... I've been telling the wife, I really should get a 20 watter, I have the work for it and I NEED a backup machine...

So today one of my regular's walks in and says "we have [a crapload of parts] that need [some words] engraved on them, fast, and can you do them for [this price]?

Uh, Yeah! And it's a done deal, parts will be coming in this week. And this one job will net more than half the price of a new 20 watter...
http://www.engraver1.com/gifs/party.gif

I'm giving serious thought to checking out some better optioned and higher powered offerings for the near future. Suggestions welcome, as I really don't know the first place to look!

[Scott Marquez]

Kev,
It sounds like a good problem to have, if you currently have a 30 watt fiber, why would you want a 20 watt and not a 50 watt machine in the future?
Scott

[Bill George]

Because the dot size in a fiber is so small the concentrated power is about 5x the 30 watt rating. 50 watts won't give any more speed but may allow deeper one pass engraving but its also less portable. With my 20 watt machine I can warp stainless steel just fine!!

[Kev Williams]

The price difference between a 20 and 30 watt machine is around $3k-- I opted for the 30w machine first because I knew I could use it- Example, the job I'm running right now has a substantial amount of engraving that's required to have a .004" minimum depth in aluminum, and it's taking just over 7 minutes per part to reach that depth. With 10 less watts, I'd probably be looking at 8 or 9 minutes- not horrible, but we're talking hundreds of parts, so it adds up!

BUT, as Bill says, the 20w WILL do the job. Much of the work I do a 20w machine will accomplish just as well as a 30w. While having issues with my current machine I had to deal with the dreaded dead-in-the-water feeling. A big reason I have so many machines is I always have a backup machine, I can always get the work out. So for the moment my immediate need is for a backup and 'overflow' machine more so than a Tim Allen special! ;)

And since the job coming in today (A) will pay of a good portion of the machine, (B) HOG the machine time from everyone else, and (C) can be done just fine with a 20w machine, it makes perfect sense...

I want to check into higher powered machines because I need to be able to deep engrave metals MUCH faster than a 30w and maybe even a 50w machine can do. Right now I do this type of work with my rotary machines. I'd much rather have a laser do it. Lasers are much quieter, and you don't have to keep sharpening the laser beam... ;)

[Gary Hair]

and you don't have to keep sharpening the laser beam... ;)

So you opted for the self-sharpening beam as well? Money well spent!

[Kev Williams]

After doing a little ebay research, one laser seller, Agiltron (who's in Massachusetts) had an interesting Q&A section about MOPA lasers, some tidbits:


2 - Is a bigger Lens means less Fine Print compare to small 100mm x 100mm Lens?
Ans: Yes, simply changing to a bigger lens increases spot size. Although this does not affect the quality since the eye cannot see the difference, but the energy level is reduced, that could be a major problem. However, Laserwares has a solution for this by reconfiguring the optical system with more lenses so that the spot size remains the same for both small lens and large lens. The cost is an extra $850.

6 - What is the maximum laser power can I get for laser marking or engraving?
Ans: The average power does not translate into the result. Laser marker uses pulse mode that generates high power in a short time and on a smaller spot. The power of each pulse and shape of it as well as the ability to focus limit the quality and speed of the marking operation. More average laser power gives you more pulses thus higher throughput, but you must have the laser pulse quality to achieve what you want first. 60W MOPA is the best on the market. 100W trades off the pulse quality and energy.

7.- Why the large price difference for the 20W laser makers?
Ans: This is similar to carving knives of the same size and shape, but one is made of regular ion (Q-switched), and another one is made of special ion (MOPA). Therefore one is much sharper than the regular one. If you only mark serial numbers on Al and Steel, then buy our Q-Switched machine at $5500. If you want good looking marking on many material surfaces, then buy our 20W MOPA at $8400 which is the best performance and price.



As for #2, I assume they're talking about a collimator?
Opinions about #6 that a 60w MOPA is 'best on the market', and that 100w machine would be a trade-off?
I'm reading that MOPA lasers are better suited for a larger variety of materials, but I don't find much info on deep-engraving...

30w MOPA's can be had for $15k, a 60w is available for twice that... all ebay of course, but, all are US sellers...

[Ross Moshinsky]

The price difference between a 20 and 30 watt machine is around $3k-- I opted for the 30w machine first because I knew I could use it- Example, the job I'm running right now has a substantial amount of engraving that's required to have a .004" minimum depth in aluminum, and it's taking just over 7 minutes per part to reach that depth. With 10 less watts, I'd probably be looking at 8 or 9 minutes- not horrible, but we're talking hundreds of parts, so it adds up!

BUT, as Bill says, the 20w WILL do the job. Much of the work I do a 20w machine will accomplish just as well as a 30w. While having issues with my current machine I had to deal with the dreaded dead-in-the-water feeling. A big reason I have so many machines is I always have a backup machine, I can always get the work out. So for the moment my immediate need is for a backup and 'overflow' machine more so than a Tim Allen special! ;)

And since the job coming in today (A) will pay of a good portion of the machine, (B) HOG the machine time from everyone else, and (C) can be done just fine with a 20w machine, it makes perfect sense...

I want to check into higher powered machines because I need to be able to deep engrave metals MUCH faster than a 30w and maybe even a 50w machine can do. Right now I do this type of work with my rotary machines. I'd much rather have a laser do it. Lasers are much quieter, and you don't have to keep sharpening the laser beam... ;)


Why is the price difference 3k? I priced out some fibers earlier in the month thinking if we wanted to make a business purchase and I was quoted an ~$800 difference.

It's not my money to spend, but I'd think getting another 30W unit would be worth the money in time savings between running the jobs and figuring out settings. Being able to run both machines with the same settings has to be worth something.

[Gary Hair]

Being able to run both machines with the same settings has to be worth something.

Exactly why I have two of the same machine!

[Kev Williams]

Back when I bought this one (all of 6 months ago) the to-my-door price difference between 20 and 30 watts was just under $3k. I found that to be pretty close everywhere I checked at the time. Prices just keep coming down, it almost seems dumb to buy now, but prices have to be pretty close to bottomed out. And even if not, I can't afford to wait much longer--

but I may just get another 30w... After a little searching, I find that right now I can get an Ebay 30w machine nearly identical to mine with a rotary for around $800 less than a 20w would've cost me 6 months ago. Yeah ebay, however the seller is in China, which I almost would prefer over here 'n' gone USA sellers. These machines are all built with the same off-the-shelf parts, so I'm not too worried about who's selling it. The warrantee is only a year v 2 years Triumph gave me, but I can live with that too.

>edit< Just went thru my records which is much more reliable than my memory these days, price difference was about $2200, so a bit more than 'just under' $3k...

[Bill George]

Check with Ray Fine they use Raycus source, I do not know what your using now and if it makes any difference. I did think there was more than $800 cost between a 20 and 30 however.

[Kev Williams]

Mine's a "Max" which I assume is Max Photonic. I've heard of Raycus but have no idea if they're any better or worse in any way than a Max-

[Gary Hair]

Both of mine have Raycus but I can't tell you anything about any difference between Raycus and Max Photonic - they both seem to work...

[Rodne Gold]

The same settings is a BIG advantage .. why we bought 6 of the same machines from Longtai

Oddly enough , my fibre paid for itself in a month doing ONLY gold black plastic plates , We charge $5 for a 2" x 1" plate with 3 lines of text.. it takes under 20 seconds to engrave and cut one .. about 20x quicker than my other machines
We used the 220mm lens for that ..can do 40 up in a go.

[Gary Hair]

The same settings is a BIG advantage .. why we bought 6 of the same machines from Longtai

Oddly enough , my fibre paid for itself in a month doing ONLY gold black plastic plates , We charge $5 for a 2" x 1" plate with 3 lines of text.. it takes under 20 seconds to engrave and cut one .. about 20x quicker than my other machines
We used the 220mm lens for that ..can do 40 up in a go.

Is this Rowmark you are using? I've tried a few settings on Rowmark and don't get good results - care to share your settings?

[Bill George]

Is this Rowmark you are using? I've tried a few settings on Rowmark and don't get good results - care to share your settings?

Ditto, my Rowmark tag material looks like it just got melted and vector cutting was a joke. However I have used the Laser Mag stuff and it looks darn nice. One customer almost cried when I told her the new machine will not do those.... but it does. :)

Someone might say, why did you sell the CO2 machine? Preparing for a move to retirement living and all my CNC tools need to fit in a a spare room or basement corner.

[Kev Williams]

I was playing with plastic on mine one day, as usual I didn't have much time to experiment, but I did find in a couple of instances, wht/blk rowmark and blue translucent plex to be specific, that changing the power or frequency like 2 digits was the difference between 'nothing' and 'something'. Also found that to be the case with pure copper awhile back...

Rod's settings may be a good starting point, but expect to spend time tweaking... :)

[Jacob John]

Back when I bought this one (all of 6 months ago) the to-my-door price difference between 20 and 30 watts was just under $3k. I found that to be pretty close everywhere I checked at the time. Prices just keep coming down, it almost seems dumb to buy now, but prices have to be pretty close to bottomed out. And even if not, I can't afford to wait much longer--

but I may just get another 30w... After a little searching, I find that right now I can get an Ebay 30w machine nearly identical to mine with a rotary for around $800 less than a 20w would've cost me 6 months ago. Yeah ebay, however the seller is in China, which I almost would prefer over here 'n' gone USA sellers. These machines are all built with the same off-the-shelf parts, so I'm not too worried about who's selling it. The warrantee is only a year v 2 years Triumph gave me, but I can live with that too.

>edit< Just went thru my records which is much more reliable than my memory these days, price difference was about $2200, so a bit more than 'just under' $3k...

Do you guys have enclosed or open? If it's an enclosed one, can you link them to me? I'm ready to start looking again, and since you guys have tested them out, I trust y'all. I need it to be enclosed though, between 20-30watt.

[Rodne Gold]

I have closed down for the holiday season , till Jan 12th , so dont have the settings offhand..
Here is a gallery of fiber engraving with various plastics
I dont use rowmark, I import all my own engraving laminates from China
http://www.tokerbros.co.za/Engraving-laser-and-CNC/Fiber-laser-engraving/