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View Full Version : 2006 Trotec Speedy 300 60W (Synrad) with Jobcontrol X - laser randomly not firing.



Brock LaCroix Jones
12-19-2016, 9:28 PM
Hello,

I have heard there is a savvy group of Trotec users on this site. I have a 2006 Trotec Speedy 300 60W (Synrad) with Jobcontrol X. I bought it used within the last few months and have been learning to use it when I have time. It need a tune up when I got it and worked fine for a month or so of playing around here and there, then it began to randomly quit firing the laser. It will sometimes engrave for 5 to 10 minutes and then nothing, although it goes through all of the motions the laser does not fire. Some times it won't work upon startup but restarting the machine is acting as sort of a reset to get it working. Tech support at Trotec had me check the power supplies which seem to be working fine and play with the tickle power which did not help. They thought that maybe the issue was with the tube and not having any other good advice at the time I began to believe this may be the case. I have subsequently sent the tube off to PhotoVac and they recharged the tube and checked it along with the RF exciter and cable that are used with it. After getting the tube back and re-installing it my hopes of resolution for this problem were quickly shattered. I spent some time doing some mis-guided work adjusting power supplies and checking continuity on the serial cable so I have ruled those out for now. I am out of town for at least another week and then I can get back to the troubleshooting. I cannot get anything done with it the way it is and would really appreciate any suggestions or experiences that you are all willing to share.

Scott Anders
12-20-2016, 1:19 AM
Switch off any features in your material database / advanced settings like IPC, Raster correction and High quality. Also which version of windows are you using and is it a serial cable or USB?

Brock LaCroix Jones
12-20-2016, 12:11 PM
Hello Scott, thanks for the reply. I will give the suggestions you made about the material database settings a try when I get home. I have a USB between the Computer and the Laser. The serial cable that I had previously referred to checking the continuity of was the one between the RF exciter and the laser tube. My computer is running on Windows 7 Pro. I hope that I get some other great suggestions to try between now and when I return home after Christmas.

Scott Anders
12-20-2016, 2:27 PM
Ok if it's usb I've got another suggestion, go into your power settings in Windows and switch off "usb hibernation " go into Device Manager, navigate down to Universal Serial Bus controllers. On each USB Root Hub item, right-click and choose Properties. Click on the Power Management tab and un-check the box for Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power.

Also just to clarify, I had an issue where the laser would skip cuts at times randomly and it turned out I had switched on ipc, switched it off and never had the problem again.

Hopefully one of these solutions works for you. I would also make sure your firmware is up to date

Steve Morris
12-20-2016, 3:52 PM
Second the firmware update suggestion, it should be matched to your version of JCX as a rule or can cause some unusual behaviour by all accounts.
Best bet is to contact Trotec technical to find out what it should be.

John Lifer
12-20-2016, 9:42 PM
Scott, thanks for this information, I've got to try this, but I'll bet that USB hibernation is what is causing me problems with an old laser paper printer! Can reset and make work when I unplug and replug into USB. Thanks!

Brock LaCroix Jones
12-21-2016, 6:27 PM
Scott Anders, Thanks for the new suggestions. I will work through those when I get back along with re-checking my firmware as Scott Morris suggests. I have already been planning to re-flash my firmware but I have been attempting other solutions first. After I try everything hopeful that others suggest here I will mess with the firmware. I have wondered if this might have anything to do with the safety switches on the doors. I had heard once that sometimes the switches will allow the mechanics to work but not allow the laser to fire. If that is the case and a hall switch is registering intermittently the easiest way to find out would be to use a technicians bypass in order to rule that out without needlessly replacing them. I plan to look into getting my hands on one of those, if anyone knows how then please share.

Mike Null
12-22-2016, 7:12 AM
Your machine, your decision but I would use Trotec tech support.

Steve Morris
12-22-2016, 11:13 AM
yeah don't mess with the firmware coz if you brick it Trotec will want an arm & a leg for a new board.
The telephone support to walk you through this update usually great and they can even do it for you with remote access.

Brock LaCroix Jones
12-22-2016, 10:05 PM
Yes, of course. They are very helpful and already helped me upgrade to JobControl X when I bought the machine. Flashing firmware is still a risk with or without their help and I don't want to brick my Trotec. I do work with Trotec support while I am with the machine but we have yet to come up with a definitive reason. I thought I might benefit from the collective knowledge and experience on the internet to come up with any new theories. I suppose it is the most I can do while I am away is to research, study and inquire about my issue until I am able to start trying out all of the possible solutions. Thank you for the advice, I agree about the firmware. I do not see any reason why I would be reluctant to use a safety bypass as opposed to the magnets that already bypass the hall sensors. If they are malfunctioning then a magnet may not have the same effect as an actual bypass device.

Mike Null
12-23-2016, 7:23 AM
I would probably buy a new USB cable and switch usb ports. Many years back I had that issue with my Universal and the cable seemed to take care of it.

Brock LaCroix Jones
12-23-2016, 4:01 PM
Mike, thank you, was your laser moving the optics around going back and forth pretending to engrave "going through the motions" and not firing the laser? It really surprises me that the USB cable fixed that. My machine is supposed to be able to do a test fire whether it is connected to the PC or not and even the test fire performed from the lasers keypad will randomly not work. I'm gonna be back home the beginning of next week. Any other ideas to try when I get there?

Bill George
12-23-2016, 4:29 PM
Mike has had his laser equipment for years.... and long enough on here to post over 11,000 times. I think I would trust his advice.

Mike Null
12-24-2016, 9:42 AM
Brock
My memory is a little vague but, in addition to corrupted files, as I recall I had laser power interruptions as you described. In any event, the first part is just to try a different port so there is no cost involved.

I'm sure cable technology has improved over the last decade plus so your cable may be just fine. BTW, my Trotec is the same age as yours. I also had my tube remanufactured by Photovac about 2 and a half years ago. Just popped it into place and its been engraving like new ever since.

Brock LaCroix Jones
12-24-2016, 4:28 PM
Thanks Mike, It's nice of you to share a little more. I'm just hoping to get a little smarter before I get back home and start putting time and money into solving this. It is quite often embarrassing how simple solutions often turn out to be. I hope to get a longer list of the simple in-expensive things to try such as USB cable swapping and what not.

Hi Bill, thanks for looking, do you have any ideas about this?

Brock LaCroix Jones
01-04-2017, 5:22 PM
Hello and Happy New Year. I have given the suggestions made previously in this thread a try including doing a shop re-arrange so I could use a shorter USB Cable. My Laser is still randomly working and seems to work less than ever, as in hardly at all. The RDY light is coding 3 blinks and according to the manual for T60 Synrad tubes that is an RF drive DC fault. The Lase light also turns off when this occurs and the laser does not work. I have already checked the Power supplies repeatedly and then corrective action for code three is to cycle power to RF and then to call them if problem is persistent. I have left a message with Synrad support and intend to try and work with Trotec some tomorrow if they are available. Any new suggestions are welcome.

Scott Shepherd
01-04-2017, 6:37 PM
I'd be looking at the motherboard next. Either the signal to fire isn't reaching the tube or it's failing in the tube. Since the tube was just rebuilt, I'd assume that's good, so I'd be looking further back in the process. What's sending the signal to the tube? The motherboard, I believe (could be wrong). Having said that, over the years on other brand lasers, I have gotten brand new tubes from the manufacturer that were defective out of the box, twice. Then send replacements and they worked fine. Just keep that in mind.

Mike Null
01-05-2017, 7:47 AM
Brock
Did you consult with Chris or one of his guys at PhotoVac. I believe you have a one year warranty on the rebuild so they may be able to offer some support.

Brock LaCroix Jones
01-05-2017, 4:46 PM
Scott,

After flashing firmware with Trotec this morning the problem still continued. They suggested that the Mainboard or IO board could be my problem. Unfortunately these are rather pricey and I am not eager to start swapping costly parts before attempting to exhaust other efforts.

Mike,

I spoke to PhotoVac at one point and followed through with their suggestions at the time but it did not help. and I may give them another call.

I also got a voicemail from Synrad and then left one with them that provided more information that they requested and I am interested if they have any suggestions.

Brock LaCroix Jones
01-06-2017, 5:21 PM
Hello,

Synrad said that if the problem wasn't so random then it would almost for sure be an issue with the T-60 tube or exciter system as long as the power supplies have been confirmed to be operating properly. They recommend I work with Photovac more to see if they may have more suggestions that have to do with the machines integration with the laser and what not. Photovac reassured me of there process to assure that my laser tube and RF system are functioning very well and I do not have any reservations about crossing those off my list after doing the two checks that they highly recommended I do. I made sure my power supply is hovering between 30.50 and 30.70 VDC and make sure that the RF cable is beautiful, clean and well grounded with no charring, black marks or signs of an electrical disparity of an sort. So........

Brock LaCroix Jones
01-07-2017, 5:36 PM
Here is a copy of another conversation I am having to keep this thread up to date.

3 Blinks normally indicate a RF fault. You can try to reset the fault by removing the 2 power cables from the RF supply, wait a couple of minutes for complete discharge (usually around 10-15minutes), reconnect the power cables and try again. If this error just reappear, you will have to get one of the local Trotec Support guys to come and check. Or if you close enough to Synrad you can try them.
https://scontent.fsjc1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/c4.2.32.32/p40x40/13102678_109746672767180_6730699308923010124_n.jpg ?oh=e7bf50a43d8893ae30fb548241776811&oe=58E797E9 (https://www.facebook.com/brock.jones.58555?fref=ufi)

Brock Jones (https://www.facebook.com/brock.jones.58555?fref=ufi) Yes, thank you Pieter Kleynhans (https://www.facebook.com/pieterjk?hc_location=ufi), that is what it means. Cycling DC power has been done many times, so has talking to Synrad, Trotec and PhotoVac. At this point I have not been given any options outside of replacing the IO board and/or CPU board. I am interested to see if anyone here can think of anything else, especially if this exact thing has happened to them and they resolved it somehow. Sadly for someone, I can only hope they have been here and done that.
https://scontent.fsjc1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/p32x32/15698212_10154785749492208_4734740365445938336_n.j pg?oh=02abdfd13dcbd89f06a32fcbaa27f131&oe=591D6BD0 (https://www.facebook.com/pieterjk?fref=ufi)

Pieter Kleynhans (https://www.facebook.com/pieterjk?fref=ufi) Brock (https://www.facebook.com/brock.jones.58555?hc_location=ufi), before replacing the I/O board, have you tried changing the Coaxial cable (TTL Signal) to the other output on the board? You can also measure the voltage on these outputs with a multimeter. Should be around 5v if doing a 100% power test pulse. These laser sources tend to be very sensitive to power related issues. Had one here which gave endless problems until we took it of from the UPS (which was tested by the manufacturer to be up to standard - apparently just not high enough standard for the Synrad T60/T80 https://www.facebook.com/images/emoji.php/v6/f57/1/16/1f609.png��) and put it on an Innovolt (active surge protector). The Innovolt works much better than any other UPS/surge protector I've come across. Since then we had no issues again with the RF.
https://scontent.fsjc1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/p32x32/15698212_10154785749492208_4734740365445938336_n.j pg?oh=02abdfd13dcbd89f06a32fcbaa27f131&oe=591D6BD0 (https://www.facebook.com/pieterjk?fref=ufi)
Pieter Kleynhans (https://www.facebook.com/pieterjk?fref=ufi) Another option (and this all depends on the Trotec Technical Team in your area) is to upgrade the machine to a new Iradion laser source which get rid of the RF supply all together and is off course much newer technology. Might be cheaper this way than to replace the current source with a new one and your I/O & CPU boards... However, there is sometimes a bit op politics behind upgrading equipment.
https://scontent.fsjc1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/c4.2.32.32/p40x40/13102678_109746672767180_6730699308923010124_n.jpg ?oh=e7bf50a43d8893ae30fb548241776811&oe=58E797E9 (https://www.facebook.com/brock.jones.58555?fref=ufi)

Brock Jones (https://www.facebook.com/brock.jones.58555?fref=ufi) Pieter (https://www.facebook.com/pieterjk?hc_location=ufi), Thanks for the continuing effort here, I really appreciate it! So to be sure the 2 coaxial plugs on the I/O board are interchangeable? Is this coaxial plug where the I/O board sends out the signal from 0-5 volts to control laser power? That is really good to know as I am trying to become familiar with the machine and troubleshoot the problem. I don't run the machine through a UPS but I did install a dedicated circuit for it. How seriously do you think I should be considering installing a UPS? Can you specify the model of the one from Innovolt that is working well for you? I think for the most part I will be thankful to get this working as it was originally designed. These type things have a lot of issues to resolve when you start swapping systems and I'm no engineer that's for sure. I would much rather just get some good use out of it as a solid stock machine and then buy a another machine as needed. It really is a great machine as is anyways.
https://scontent.fsjc1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/c4.2.32.32/p40x40/13102678_109746672767180_6730699308923010124_n.jpg ?oh=e7bf50a43d8893ae30fb548241776811&oe=58E797E9 (https://www.facebook.com/brock.jones.58555?fref=ufi)

Brock Jones (https://www.facebook.com/brock.jones.58555?fref=ufi) Just had a rare opportunity to cut a couple things before the fault light came on. This time while the laser was in the fault mode I checked that 5V was being sent from both coaxial plugs on the board. They both put out 5V with a 100% test pulse.
https://scontent.fsjc1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/c4.2.32.32/p40x40/13102678_109746672767180_6730699308923010124_n.jpg ?oh=e7bf50a43d8893ae30fb548241776811&oe=58E797E9 (https://www.facebook.com/brock.jones.58555?fref=ufi)

Brock Jones (https://www.facebook.com/brock.jones.58555?fref=ufi) Does anyone have some good ideas where I might look for ground issues on the machine? somewhere that they have seen faulty connections that may be triggering this code. Also does anyone know what question I should be asking, lol?

Brock LaCroix Jones
04-16-2018, 6:52 PM
Hello,

It has been quite a while and I have not used my laser much. I did not return and update this as I should have and meant to keep it up as a matter of public service. I eventually discovered that my laser not firing was less random than I had thought. The RDY light was actually blinking when I had left the door to the machine open longer than 50 seconds. I taped magnets over the door sensors and defeated the interlocks and have been able to use the machine since then. Recently while I was cutting a job the laser stopped firing in the middle of the job. Now the yellow RDY light begins blinking after the machine has been on for 80 seconds. I have replaced the I/O board, Motherboard and a little interlock timer circuit to no avail. Sadly I did not actually use it much after having the tube and RF checked by Photovac partially because that did not resolve the issue and It took a while to get it working and I also had to continue my focus on things that actually made me money, lol. Now Synrad is telling me that it seems likely something is wrong with the RF exciter and that both will need service together. so even though this tube has been recently charged and should last ten years I may have to re-do it again. I would use Photovac again but if there is something wrong with the exciter then I am disappointed they did not discover it before and also I would choose to be blameless when further diagnosing the machine by sticking with OEM from now on. I am getting a quote from Synrad to purchase a quick start plug that should help me to rule out the machine as a cause for the default by bypassing it altogether.