Finally Made a Handle for Ron Bontz Saw Plate

[Jim Koepke]

It has been almost five years since my last saw handle build:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?180712-Back-Saw-Build

Seems like just yesterday.

Currently my doctors do not want me doing full blown woodworking for a few more weeks. But what the heck, even though it is below 40º in the shop, a little light work shouldn't be too bad.

A friend gave me a couple pieces of rosewood that came from a table. My recollection is the table was in an Afghani restaurant before becoming broken. It seemed like a good candidate for a saw handle. Maybe being in a restaurant and being cleaned all the time may have dried it out a bit. It seemed very easy to chip out at times.

Anyway here is the handle on the saw:

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It will likely get a bit more refinement as it gets used, but so far it feels pretty good.

The plate is 15ppi. I filed it at 12º rake with the intention of finishing it off as a crosscut saw. Currently it has no set and saws like a champ rip or crosscut, just a bit slow.

jtk

[James Pallas]

Nice job Jim. Good looking rosewood too. Watch out for those spies the docs have they're everywhere.
Jim

[Brent Cutshall]

Nice one Jim! You didn't have to get me that for Christmas!:p

[Stew Denton]

Jim,

Good to see a post from you. Glad it cuts well, should be a great addition to your shop. Nice to see you post a project, but be careful, don't overdo. Look out though, your doctor may spy on you right on this site! How much longer do you have to wait before you can get back to normal?


Stew

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks all for the kind words.


How much longer do you have to wait before you can get back to normal?

Not sure, I have an appointment with my doctor tomorrow. My guess from paying attention to my recovery is likely a week to a month. Light work isn't out of the question. Ripping long sections would probably be overdoing it.

jtk

[george wilson]

Jim,your handle looks great,except for the too wide "hump" on the back of the handle. If you file off wood on each side of it,the hump will become more narrowed down and "concentrated" in the center of the handle as is more usual.

However,if you like the way the handle feels to your hand,I'm sure it will work just fine.
Many,many,many years ago,when I was El Mucho younger, I thought the pronounced hump looked a little bizarre. But,after using such handles,and finding how they did fit into the hollow of my palm better,I saw why they did it that way. By now,I have long since just taken it as a matter of course to have this hump in saw handles. Perhaps,in a few more years,I'll have a hump in my old back to match it!!!!:)

Excellent "timing" of the screw slots,a detail often not known by builders. The "scratches" seen on the top saw are just hastily wiped on wax !

Your friend,George.

[David Eisenhauer]

Nice looking saws and handles Jim and George. It seems like a handle can be a "work in progress" over a period of time. Jim, other than the chipping, how was the rosewood to work with?

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,your handle looks great,except for the too wide "hump" on the back of the handle. If you file off wood on each side of it,the hump will become more narrowed down and "concentrated" in the center of the handle as is more usual.

Thanks George, My feeling is this is still in its early stages. It will most definitely get more shaping over the next few weeks to years. Even some of my older saws get a bit of reshaping to feel better in hand.


Nice looking saws and handles Jim and George. It seems like a handle can be a "work in progress" over a period of time. Jim, other than the chipping, how was the rosewood to work with?

Most of my saw handles are a "work in progress." If it feels like there is a bit of pinch in the grip it gets a bit of rasping and sanding. Amazingly this handle feels big in my hand. It does feel a bit bulky in the palm in the area George mentioned.

The rosewood wasn't too bad to work. My apple handle was a bit easier to work, but the difference may be the ages of the wood made a lot of difference. The apple was fairly fresh compared to the rosewood being salvaged from a previous use. Keeping the tools sharp did make a big difference with the rosewood.

I couldn't find my white china marker to use on the rosewood. Today if my white colored pencil doesn't leave a good mark I may look for a china marker while in town.

For what it's worth, the only 'finish' on the handle so far is some furniture wax. Bare wood is fine with me.

BTW, a recent FWW has an article on making saw handles.

jtk

[Mel Fulks]

Mr. Maker does good work!

[george wilson]

Buffing rosewood or ebony with white buffing compound leaves a nice finish. The white compound doesn't stay white,or show up at all.

Buffing should be kept to a minimum so as to not sluff over crisp edges and details.

[Pat Barry]

Jim,your handle looks great,except for the too wide "hump" on the back of the handle. If you file off wood on each side of it,the hump will become more narrowed down and "concentrated" in the center of the handle as is more usual.

However,if you like the way the handle feels to your hand,I'm sure it will work just fine.
Many,many,many years ago,when I was El Mucho younger, I thought the pronounced hump looked a little bizarre. But,after using such handles,and finding how they did fit into the hollow of my palm better,I saw why they did it that way. By now,I have long since just taken it as a matter of course to have this hump in saw handles. Perhaps,in a few more years,I'll have a hump in my old back to match it!!!!:)

Excellent "timing" of the screw slots,a detail often not known by builders. The "scratches" seen on the top saw are just hastily wiped on wax !

Your friend,George.
Hi George, The handle on the bottom saw looks much like Jim's. The handle on the upper saw doesn't look quite as finished to me - maybe its the way the wood grain interacts with the physical intersections of the flats and curves, particularly in the humped area you referred to. The 'corners' look a bit wavy. I do see that you have taken more effort to blend the roundovers though and that lloks good but I see lots of handles that are more squared off looking too. All those are personal preferences in my mind. The important thing is that you can grip it easily and firmly without having to squeeze too hard.

[lowell holmes]

George,

Why did you have to mention timing the slots. I have five saws with handles I made. Now I have go back and time the slots.:(

[george wilson]

Excessive OCD!!! And,good craftsman's practices!!:)

[David Eisenhauer]

The main bulk of us are crawling, a few of you are walking, George and a couple-three others are running. I was not even aware that one is supposed to check saw screws (or others for that matter) for clocking. Always a step ahead George. Don't never stop.

[Jim Koepke]

Spent a little time today working on refining the shape of the saw handle:

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Will likely continue refining the shape a bit, but that is usually done over time.

jtk

[Glen Canaday]

I need someone to give ME a broken rosewood table!

[lowell holmes]

I need someone to give ME a broken rosewood table!

No Kidding. :)

[Kees Heiden]

Jim, maybe I don't see it very well in the picture, but the handle looks very flat. Almost no round over. When you look at George's handles you'll see that he rounds over way further. The area you grip "should" be about a semi circle, fading away into the horns. It's easiest to draw the line where the roundover goes over into the flat with a pencil and then grab an agressive rasp and start to remove a serious amount of wood. I use a finer rasp to smooth, then strips of sandpaper in increasing grit to make it really smooth.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, maybe I don't see it very well in the picture, but the handle looks very flat. Almost no round over. When you look at George's handles you'll see that he rounds over way further. The area you grip "should" be about a semi circle, fading away into the horns. It's easiest to draw the line where the roundover goes over into the flat with a pencil and then grab an agressive rasp and start to remove a serious amount of wood. I use a finer rasp to smooth, then strips of sandpaper in increasing grit to make it really smooth.

Thanks Kees,

The handle is still a work in progress. With some medical restrictions I am still trying to do a little at a time to not mess up my healing process.

My satisfaction with even a small accomplishment at this point has me excited.

jtk

[Pat Barry]

Jim, maybe I don't see it very well in the picture, but the handle looks very flat. Almost no round over. When you look at George's handles you'll see that he rounds over way further. The area you grip "should" be about a semi circle, fading away into the horns. It's easiest to draw the line where the roundover goes over into the flat with a pencil and then grab an agressive rasp and start to remove a serious amount of wood. I use a finer rasp to smooth, then strips of sandpaper in increasing grit to make it really smooth.
Interesting comment. I suppose this is something that is more user preference than anything else. If the tool fits your hand and is comfortable then that's all that is necessary. I recently received and assortment of handsaws, passed down from my wife's grandfather. As I recall, most all of them are Disstons, rip and cross-cut. I noted that the newer saws have more 'squared off' grips - much like Jim's = less roundovers like you noted about George's, and wonder why? Maybe its so that the user can adjust these newer handles as needed to fit their own personal needs. After all everyone's hand is different and each person has their own sense of what feels good. What if you got a saw with a really rounded over style and didn't like it. You can't just add material back to square it off.

[Kees Heiden]

Thanks Kees,

The handle is still a work in progress. With some medical restrictions I am still trying to do a little at a time to not mess up my healing process.

My satisfaction with even a small accomplishment at this point has me excited.

jtk

Good on you Jim. Heal up well!

[Phil Mueller]

I belive the more squared off newer saw handles are more a product of production cost than end user customization. But either way, it does leave the flexibility for a custom fitting.

[george wilson]

Pat,I don't understand where you got your observations in your rather bizarre post #11.

The top handle is a straight reproduction of an antique Groves closed handle saw I have,except curly maple. The corners are not "wavy". The handle is quite fully finished. Are the curls in the wood confusing your observations? The last thing I ever do is make "wavy" edges.

[Pat Barry]

Pat,I don't understand where you got your observations in your rather bizarre post #11.

The top handle is a straight reproduction of an antique Groves closed handle saw I have,except curly maple. The corners are not "wavy". The handle is quite fully finished. Are the curls in the wood confusing your observations? The last thing I ever do is make "wavy" edges.
Bizarre? Wow. Sorry. No offense intended. I just felt the handle didn't look as finished. Here is a closeup of the area I was referring to. Maybe its just the grain pattern but it looks wavy to me.
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[george wilson]

I think the grain is confusing you. That saw has no waves in the work. Many have seen this picture of that saw,and no one else has ever commented that it looks wavy. As simple as it is to make smooth curves,I'd never leave wavy,unfinished work on a handle like this. Especially when it is a saw modeled from one of my all time favorites for myself,or anyone else. Actually,I'm even more particular if it is for a customer. I have customers who drive everyone ELSE nuts,they are so particular!!! And,by everyone else,I mean other master craftsman in the museum. Some will not even work for my customers,one in particular,who I have made many things for. Especially ivory,brass and iron spinning wheel parts for super high class mahogany,inlaid spinning wheels for the wealthy's hobbies in the 18th. C..

Things like the ones below. The thimble is a repro from an original dug up at the Geddy site. The acorn houses it on a "equippage" that a wealthy woman wore on her apron around the house when sewing. One of the items in the other picture is the original.

[lowell holmes]

It looks crisp to me. :)

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks all for the comments, it helped to get me back to work on this some more today.

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Nothing like a picture you can blow up real big to help spot the places where things could be a bit better.

Maybe a bit more work in the future if it doesn't feel right in use.

I love the feel of rosewood in my hand.

jtk

[Pat Barry]

I think the grain is confusing you. That saw has no waves in the work. Many have seen this picture of that saw,and no one else has ever commented that it looks wavy. As simple as it is to make smooth curves,I'd never leave wavy,unfinished work on a handle like this. l.
Pictures can be misleading at times. The lighting always has a big effect. I noted in my first post that the apparent waviness I was seeing might be the grain pattern. Its very nice work

[Pat Barry]

Looks good Jim. Are you planning to leave it as bare wood or seal it / oil it / etc? What would be the traditional finish for a saw handle?

[Ray Selinger]

I'm glad to read and see your progress, Jim. On fine rifles, the screw slots are clocked ,too. Nowadays rifles have hex head screws and plastic stocks.

[Stewie Simpson]

Nicely done Jim. Being an open handle design, you have the grain direction through the neck of the handle spot on.

With the coarseness of thread on saw bolts, imo, its a waste of time focusing on the final clockwork alignment of the saw nut slots.

regards Stewie;

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks all for the kind words.


Are you planning to leave it as bare wood or seal it / oil it / etc? What would be the traditional finish for a saw handle?

Most likely it will be only oiled with Howard's® furniture polish, a mixture of oil and wax.


Nowadays rifles have hex head screws and plastic stocks.

How hard is it to make rifle stocks? May be a source of income for someone who can make them.


With the coarseness of thread on saw bolts, imo, its a waste of time focusing on the final clockwork alignment of the saw nut slots.

Funny thing is the screws settled pretty much close to being clocked. Just took a little bit of coaxing to be together. Not much waste of time. Besides, it only needs to be done once.

I made a split nut screwdriver out of a tool that came with a hose end fitting. Turned it with a crescent wrench.

jtk

[Ray Selinger]

How hard is it to make rifle stocks? This isn't an exact quote , maybe George will correct me, " It's pretty easy , just remove the wood that looks like it doesn't belong." I think Al Beisen (sp) said that. He lived on the other side of the mountains from you.

[george wilson]

Making DECENT rifle stocks is a skill that does not come out at once. The way the barrel is bedded affects the accuracy considerably on high power rifles. They are powerful enough that the barrels whip some when fired.

Some guys glass bed them after cutting away too much wood,but I think ,unless neatly done,that looks cheap. I mean,you CAN SEE how much extra wood was chunked out.

I used to have a Ruger #2(?) rifle in the 60's. Those are neat falling block single shot rifles. Very nicely designed. Fairly short fore stock,no wood around the actions. But,those rifles shot quite differently from each other,depending upon how their barrels were fitted to that forestock. Some shot very accurately and some did not. The forestocks were fitted by women in their factory at that time. Some did excellent work,and I guess some needed improvement. It is a job that women can get quite good at versus men,involving detail.

[Ray Selinger]

I consider rifles to be art of an industrial age, the fine walnut and the polished blued steel. Sadly ,we're in a post industrial age. Current custom stocks are very high tech but fit worse than suits off the rack at country department store. One size fits all.

[lowell holmes]

Did I ever show you my 4"x 20" tenon saw that I made from a Ron Bontz kit?
It was special order.

[Jim Koepke]

Did I ever show you my 4"x 20" tenon saw that I made from a Ron Bontz kit?
It was special order.

Not sure if you did.

If you did it is likely special enough to show again.

jtk