Pie Making

[Mark Blatter]

Any one out there do pie baking? I have long enjoyed baking bread, almost exclusively whole wheat (I grind my own wheat so I know it is truly whole wheat), and am now interested in making pies. Love to hear any stories, thoughts or recipes.

[Kelly Cleveland]

I just started getting into bread and pie making a few months ago. I have mostly been using recipes from Julia Child's The Way to Cook. The pie in that book comes out very flaky and buttery, the ratio of flour to fat is about 2:1. Last week I made a very delicious chicken pot pie using that crust recipe.
As an experienced bread baker maybe you could answer a question I have. Lately I have been trying very long rises using starters instead of instant yeast. The problem is on the second rise the loafs form a thin dry crust, which usually didn't happen when I only let the shaped loaf rise for 45 mins. Is this a problem? The crust on these loaves has been quite a bit softer than my other breads, which is fine but I wasn't sure if there was something I should be doing to prevent this.

[Jim Becker]

Although I don't bake pies often, I truly love fresh ones. I'm also very thankful that my mother taught me how to make a proper, flaky crust from scratch so many years ago, although these days, the packaged, pre-rolled crust is pretty darn good when time is a problem.

[Nick Decker]

Jm, what brand of pre-rolled crust are you using?

A good friend got me into making pies about 10 years ago, and I got to the point that I could make a damn good crust. Just takes a bit more time than I like to spend at it.

[John K Jordan]

Although I don't bake pies often, I truly love fresh ones. I'm also very thankful that my mother taught me how to make a proper, flaky crust from scratch so many years ago, although these days, the packaged, pre-rolled crust is pretty darn good when time is a problem.

Hey, your mother and mine might have something in common - mine taught me how to make a flaky crust from scratch too. Maybe it's a PA thing, although we lived on the west end of the state.

JKJ

[Shawn Pixley]

I am a cook, not a baker. However, I am thinking of taking up a bit of baking. However, I want to make the dough too. I used to help my grandmother (she is the one who taught me to cook) make tarts after the main Pie(s) were made. I have heard vodka helps to make a flakier crust.

Currently, I am studying "The Professional Chef" and focusing on sauces. I have worked through most of the meat and vegetable sections.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I'm a pie guy! Make my crusts using either shortening with food processor, or oil in mixing bowl. For food processor, look up "Four Ingredient Pie Crust." Food processor cuts in shortening and water. When dough becomes a ball, STOP. Forget putting into fridge for 30 minutes. Roll out crust between two sheets of wax paper. Place ball of dough between two sheets of wax paper, then using pie plate press into a circle before starting with roller. For oil crust look up "Nana's Pie Crust." Again roll out between two sheets of wax paper as above. For wax paper, I find that "Cuts Right" works better than store brands, and costs very little more. To keep filling from saturating crust, do an "egg white wash" on crust, and bake for five minutes to set egg white before adding filing. My favorites are : Buttermilk Coconut, Sweet Potato, and Japanese Fruit Pie. I make both lemon and chocolate meringue, chocolate cream (made with whipping cream and chocolate syrup,) pecan, lemon and chocolate chess. I don't care for pumpkin pie. For perfect meringue, look up "Never Fail Meringue," which uses corn starch and sugar along with water instead of sugar when making meringue. A KitchenAid Mixer makes the tallest meringue. I also make a "mean" banana pudding, using recipe on box of Vanilla Wafers.

[Jim Becker]

Jm, what brand of pre-rolled crust are you using?

A good friend got me into making pies about 10 years ago, and I got to the point that I could make a damn good crust. Just takes a bit more time than I like to spend at it.
Since we primarily shop at Wegman's, it's typically their house brand, but Pillsbury is quite usable. It's still not the same as my mother's technique, but as you note...sometimes time just isn't there to fork some dough. :)

[Bradley Gray]

I make a lot of 2 crust fruit pies. I totally agree with Bruce about the Cut-rite.

I make crust with canola oil: 2 cups four sifted with 1/2 tsp salt. stir in 1/2 cup oil with 5TBS water added in the measuring cup but not mixed. I usually have to use a rubber spatula to get all the oil/water out of the measuring cup. knead until smooth-about a minute.

Very quick and easy.

[Lee Schierer]

I'll take a blackberry pie from any one of you gents..

[Bruce Wrenn]

I'll take a blackberry pie from any one of you gents..


Let me know when you are coming this way, and I will bake you one.

[Stan Calow]

I am a pie eater, not baker. Fortunately my mother makes great pies from scratch. Her tip for apple pie is to use fresh apples (not canned filling) and to not pre-cook them, but let the apples cook in the pie. That way the apples don't turn into gluey sugary mush. For peach pie, her tip was to bake the halved peaches for awhile on a cookie sheet, to get them to dry out some, otherwise they are too wet for good pies. Now I'm hungry.

[John K Jordan]

One of my favorites is cushaw pie. (Cushaw squash, also called cushaw pumpkin) For those not familiar, cushaw pie is something akin to pumpkin but better, I think.

We grow cushaws, cook and freeze packages with enough for one pie each. They are easy to grow, hardy, not bothered by squash borers. Vines might grow 30' long and the cushaws can be large. I gave two cushaws to a friend who made 16 pies for a senior luncheon.

You can do anything with cushaw that you can do with squash, soup, for example. You can also use it anywhere you use pumpkin, i.e. cushaw cookies, cushaw bread.

JKJ

[Conrad Fiore]

LARD!
And it's better for you than butter.

[Lee Schierer]

Let me know when you are coming this way, and I will bake you one.

I might just take you up on that. Which way is that? I am retired and we do travel from time to time.

[roger wiegand]

Practice, practice, practice. A good crust takes way more practice than hand cutting dovetails or carving shells. Make a pie every day for three or four years and, if you pay attention, you will get pretty good. It's all about feel and doing each step just enough, but not too much. Recipes are not terribly helpful because the dough changes with the particular batch of flour, the particular butter (if you use butter) as well as temperature and humidity. That said even a mediocre homemade crust beats the heck out of any commercial pie crust I've ever tasted.

I like a 50/50 mix of butter and crisco, cutting the crisco in until it is like very coarse sand and leaving the butter like small peas (lentils, maybe). Lard is way better if your consumers don't give you the "yuck, gross" reaction. The art is in blending in just enough water with the absolute minimum of handling. A halfway decent result can be obtained with a food processor, but only ever halfway and only if you are incredibly ginger with the amount of pulsing you give it. A hint is that if you can manipulate your dough after rolling it out without it breaking into pieces it is way over-blended, with too much water.

Apple pie is my favorite. Apple choice is critical, with some of the hard winter apples either alone or in combinations being best. Cortland is my go-to for taste, but apples like Baldwins, Northern Spy, 20 oz pippin, and Rhode Island Greenings also being great and having better texture. The Cortlands don't hold their shape very well. Blends work well. if you only have access to grocery store apples, Macs are OK. For the love of God, do not use a "Delicious" apple in a pie.

The pursuit of great pie is a worthy endeavor, one which, I fear, is in great danger. I'd guess that 95% of Americans at this point have never tasted a well-made pie, and thus have no idea what the goal of pie-making is. My own pies are decidedly mediocre (not nearly enough practice), but get raves that are very embarrassing, knowing how far off the mark they still are. My grandmother, who did make a pie pretty much every day for 60 years, would tell me to go back and try again, with a lighter hand.

[Mark Blatter]

As an experienced bread baker maybe you could answer a question I have. Lately I have been trying very long rises using starters instead of instant yeast. The problem is on the second rise the loafs form a thin dry crust, which usually didn't happen when I only let the shaped loaf rise for 45 mins. Is this a problem? The crust on these loaves has been quite a bit softer than my other breads, which is fine but I wasn't sure if there was something I should be doing to prevent this.

I have only used instant yeast. Sorry I cannot help with the issue.

[Mark Blatter]

Practice, practice, practice. A good crust takes way more practice than hand cutting dovetails or carving shells. Make a pie every day for three or four years and, if you pay attention, you will get pretty good. It's all about feel and doing each step just enough, but not too much. Recipes are not terribly helpful because the dough changes with the particular batch of flour, the particular butter (if you use butter) as well as temperature and humidity. That said even a mediocre homemade crust beats the heck out of any commercial pie crust I've ever tasted.

I like a 50/50 mix of butter and crisco, cutting the crisco in until it is like very coarse sand and leaving the butter like small peas (lentils, maybe). Lard is way better if your consumers don't give you the "yuck, gross" reaction. The art is in blending in just enough water with the absolute minimum of handling. A halfway decent result can be obtained with a food processor, but only ever halfway and only if you are incredibly ginger with the amount of pulsing you give it. A hint is that if you can manipulate your dough after rolling it out without it breaking into pieces it is way over-blended, with too much water.

Apple pie is my favorite. Apple choice is critical, with some of the hard winter apples either alone or in combinations being best. Cortland is my go-to for taste, but apples like Baldwins, Northern Spy, 20 oz pippin, and Rhode Island Greenings also being great and having better texture. The Cortlands don't hold their shape very well. Blends work well. if you only have access to grocery store apples, Macs are OK. For the love of God, do not use a "Delicious" apple in a pie.

The pursuit of great pie is a worthy endeavor, one which, I fear, is in great danger. I'd guess that 95% of Americans at this point have never tasted a well-made pie, and thus have no idea what the goal of pie-making is. My own pies are decidedly mediocre (not nearly enough practice), but get raves that are very embarrassing, knowing how far off the mark they still are. My grandmother, who did make a pie pretty much every day for 60 years, would tell me to go back and try again, with a lighter hand.


My wife makes what I believe is a great pumpkin pie. Took a few years of testing and adjusting the recipe, but it finally has a great taste. We did Costco for a few years, but just could not take the sweet bland taste anymore. That is when my wife started trying her own hand at making them. I simply want to expand and create more options. We have used various commercial pie shells and finally settled on two that we like. Mrs. Smiths and Marie Calendar. I will give the handmade crust a few tries, but am concerned it may not be possible with my time constraints.

Keep the ideas and comments coming. It seems I have struck a vein of gold here with all the thoughts and suggestions. I would love to get more ideas on types of pies that people love the most. I have heard about a cream pie made in the mid-west that is something like sugar cream pie. Perhaps a different name.

[Jim Becker]

LARD!
And it's better for you than butter.

Crisco was my mother's choice for the shortening in pie crusts and when I do make from scratch, that's what I continue to use.

[Nick Decker]

I agree with Roger about mixing/handling the crust as little as possible. Those little chunks of butter or lard or whatever fat you use are crucial for flakiness. When you roll out the crusts, those little fat balls become encased in flour, hence the flakiness. Also important to keep everything as cool as possible during the process, otherwise those little fat balls melt into a floury goo.

I do use a food processor (sorry, Neanders!), partly because it's easier, partly because it's quicker and I don't want everything coming up to room temperature. I use flour with a combo of unsalted butter and Crisco and ice water. Three or four pulses with the steel blade, then run it only long enough to pour in the ice water. Then 3 or 4 more pulses to get to a consistency of a very coarse cornmeal. If you mix it long enough that it looks like dough or forms a ball, goodbye flakiness.

Once you master the crust, the world of pies is yours. Sweet pies, savory pies, whatever you like in the filling.

[michael langman]

My mother in law made a strawberry rhubarb that was just heavenly. I started making pies and bread right after moving in with my wife, as she didn't. Her mother would make homemade raised donuts on Sundays when they were growing up too.

I like a light flaky crust and prefer grapeseed oil in my crust. It is also very healthy for you too.

For a more flavorful crust, coconut oil is the next best thing. I used to make Pork Pie in a 4qt. cast iron pot with a double crust on top, and would add celery seed to the crust. I would use potatoes, celery onion, turnip, carrots, 1 1/2 lbs. of pork sirloin braised, garlic, thyme, sage ,salt&pepper.

I also make a completely homemade Banana Cream Pie, with homemade vanilla pudding, bananas, homemade whipped cream on top, with coconut oil in the crust. Now I'm getting hungry!

Homemade bread with 50% oat flour, and applejuice instead of water, gives the bread a suttle sweet flavor.
I could go on and on, but..

[Prashun Patel]

I don't care for pumpkin pie.

You had me until this bit of unnecessary roughness. I have to check with Keith whether this kind of pumpkin-pie-bashing is against the TOS ;)

I think pumpkin pie is possibly the world's best invention. Better than the wheel or sliced bread.

[John K Jordan]

You had me until this bit of unnecessary roughness. I have to check with Keith whether this kind of pumpkin-pie-bashing is against the TOS ;)

I think pumpkin pie is possibly the world's best invention. Better than the wheel or sliced bread.

I love pumpkin pie. Did you see where I wrote about cushaw pie? I like it better than pumpkin. A lot of people have never heard of cushaw.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

I am unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view :) ) the only one in this household who will eat pumpkin pie. (or any form of "winter" squash...

[Bruce Wrenn]

LARD!
And it's better for you than butter.


If you notice, most of the premade crusts contain lard

[Bruce Wrenn]

For a real "Gotcha Pie," make a Pinto Bean Pie. Recipe comes from Idaho Pinto Bean Growers Assoc. Just don't do like one fool did and use pintos cooked with onions and ham and expect it to taste like a pie. This is the pie that I never tell what's in it till they have eaten the pie. Pinto Bean Pie: 1 cup mashed cooked pinto beans, 1/2 cup sugar, 1/2 cup brown sugar, 1/2 cup butter (softened,) 2 eggs, and 1 tsp vanilla ext. Blend sugars, butter, eggs and vanilla till creamy. Add in cooked mashed pinto beans and blend well. Pour into 9" pie shell, then bake 20 minutes at 375, then reduce heat to 350 for 25 minutes. Two hints, brown sugar is just white sugar with molasses added to it. Two TBS per cup of sugar is light brown and three TBS per cup is dark brown. Dollar Tree sells TWO pound packages of pintos for a buck

[Tony Zona]

. . . A lot of people have never heard of cushaw.

JKJ


I never heard of cushaw.

[John K Jordan]

I never heard of cushaw.

I never heard of them either until I moved from PA to TN in the '70s. My future mother-in-law had made a cushaw pie and I basically said "what, what?"

I grow the green striped cushaws (I save seeds every year). Very hardy. This has some info if you are interested: https://www.slowfoodusa.org/ark-item/green-striped-cushaw

(I see this article says they get to 18" long. Occasionally we get them larger - I had one last year that was over 24" - quite heavy!

JKJ

[Brian W Smith]

I sell them,usually for party's.

Crusts are almost exactly like trying to "tell" someone how to mix brick/block mortar.The ingredients change with the weather,and are effected by mixing time.So,you get a dz guys,each trying to mix mortar by hand in a wheelbarrow.....there might be one,that "gets it".It's art AND science.