Hide Glue details

[David Ragan]

Got me a LV small glue pot (holds 3-4 oz of glue) heating plate, keeps glue right about 142-4*.

Using the 251gm stuff-more is better?

As everyone knows, it sets up pretty quick if the substrate is cold. When I put my small project in a plate warmer/blanket-it heated thoroughly, had to clamp it, and I thought it would never solidify. Shoulda used my handheld laser thermometer to not overshoot the temp.

Did some stringing-have to work real fast, right?

Then, some of the veneer got cock-eyed, so I reversed w an iron (special purpose-$10 WM). Now-that was gratifying indeed. Little water, heat, and a roller did the trick.

Here's my questions:

-The 192 gm would be better, allow a little more open time?
-Got some urea from Homestead Finishing to increase the open time. You all satisfied w that, for when the parts can't be heated?
-Two other things I read was the glycerin can be added to increase flexibility-I don't see me needing that. Thoughts?
-And, vinegar can be added to increase wetting properties; is this for oily woods?

Thanks

[mike holden]

David,
I use the 192 gram strength for everything.
Live in SE Michigan and never found open time to be an issue, my shop is in the basement and 68 to 70 degrees year round.

To get the best info on hide glue, check out Patrick Edwards site and/or Don Williams "Barn on White Run" for the most accurate info out there.
Patrick is the supplier of Old Brown Glue, and Don Williams was a conservator at the Smithsonian.

I see you are in Atlanta. There is a very active chapter of Society of American Period Furniture Makers there. Contact them and you can probably get some direct help in using hide glue.

Mike

[Allen Breinig]

I use the 192 as well. The urea should work fine, I usually use a little bit of salt to increase the open time. I thought the vinegar was used to increase the initial tack when veneering. ?? I use hide glue for everything, I don't know how many years it's been since I brought yellow glue.

[Ryan Mooney]

http://toolemera.com/bkpdf/KeystoneGlueHandbookSecured.pdf

http://www.toolemera.com/bkpdf/DoingTheGluingKeystone_secured.pdf

[David Ragan]

Ryan, thanks for the above links.

The second one is a small book I got from somewhere online.

I will print the first one and have a look!

Just ordered some 192. Hopefully, that will give me more open time. this batch of 251, before I chuck it (it aint much) I'll play around w some salt added, and urea to see about open times, and ultimate strength.

[Ryan Mooney]

Yeah those are handy information sources, a bit thin on the details in some of the more specific areas unfortunately. It would seem that the shortest path to success is generally having the "proper" working environment.. unfortunately I feel your pain there, its been cold as the dickens here as well :)

The other trick I've seen used (and borrowed myself ;) ) for keeping a more convivial temperature is to hang a few heat lamps like they sell for chicken brooders over the workbench. They do a pretty good job of directed localized heat.

[Jeff Ranck]

The other trick I've seen used (and borrowed myself ;) ) for keeping a more convivial temperature is to hang a few heat lamps like they sell for chicken brooders over the workbench. They do a pretty good job of directed localized heat.

and/or use a heat gun to heat the joint before you put on the glue. I've done that before. Picked up the trick on some video I was watching where they were assembling a very tricky joint with lots of pieces coming into one place.

[David Ragan]

So, when I read about vinegar increasing wetting properties-what is the usefulness of that knowledge?

[Ryan Mooney]

So, when I read about vinegar increasing wetting properties-what is the usefulness of that knowledge?

The really short version is that it reduces the surface tension of the glue allowing it to flow more easily over (and presumably into) the wood improving the amount of contact area that will bond and also easing the spreading of the glue (that is it should more easily flow over/into the wood without fuss).

[David Ragan]

The really short version is that it reduces the surface tension of the glue allowing it to flow more easily over (and presumably into) the wood improving the amount of contact area that will bond and also easing the spreading of the glue (that is it should more easily flow over/into the wood without fuss). Thanks Ryan- I am still curious about a situation where one would know to add vinegar
Normally when surface tension is too high- the liquid will not lay down right?

[Ryan Mooney]

Thanks Ryan- I am still curious about a situation where one would know to add vinegar
Normally when surface tension is too high- the liquid will not lay down right?

Good question, I haven't really tried it with hide glue (my knowledge of wetting properties is a bit more on the esoteric side) so this is entirely hypothetical in practice. While I've used hide glue I've never bothered with the vinegar trick (and in general it seemed to work just fine...). If the glue seems to be beading up a little instead of flowing out easily or perhaps not laying down flat that would be an indication it might help. I suspect the concept would be most useful on oilier woods...

[David Ragan]

First, a couple of pictures

Am shelving the 251 for now. Below pictures are w making a little of the 192......thanks for advising me to get the 192-much more open time.

The initial mix was too thin, so I poured some off, and just added some raw granules :eek:

Just after granules added, and then maybe 10 minutes:

350061350063

OK-this would not work in a full size pot with a huge amount, right?

Enough fun. Two things:

1) I picked up a $17 baby bottle warmer, it was horrendous. Just off and on-full on boil or off. Was supposed to cycle-magically, I think. Munchkin brand. back to WM w that. Any brand r
recommendations that are good, and big enough round to hold a 16 oz Bell jar?

2) Here's where I feel really stupid.......the above LV glue pot.....was overheating my glue and turning it dark brown. Up to around 165*.
So, it finally occurred to me that the thing does not operate via a thermostat. The way you control the temperature of the glue is the level of the hot water bath the pot's in.
This is correct?

Thanks all.