Analysis Paralysis - CURED

[Ken Fitzgerald]

My old Delta sliding compound miter saw finally gave up the ghost. My wife gave me a budget and said buy it for my Christmas present. Initially I determined I wanted a Hitachi C12RSH for a replacement but...they aren't manufactured anymore. Though one retailer advertises they have less than 20 new ones in stock but they shipped me a Hitachi C12RSH2 which isn't what I ordered or wanted. So I returned it without even opening the box.

Now the analysis paralysis. I looked aa a couple dozen reviews, read the information about the products at the manufacturer's website and even went to the local HD to dry fire a couple models.

In the end it came down to two saws would meet my needs and they both showed in stock at my local HD. The two saws were the Bosch GCM12SD and the Dewalt DWS780.

Online both saws were the same price delivered to my home. At the local HD, the Bosch was $50 more but the Dewalt DWS780 was the same as the online price. Last night I drove to my local HD and tested both saws side-by-side. In the end I paid sales tax and brought my first major Dewalt tool home. I chose it over the Bosch for several reasons, 1) I just wasn't comfortable having to use the safety switch on the Bosch every time I wanted to start the saw. It may get easier to use after some normal use but it wasn't that convenient. 2) The Bosch just had more lateral movement in it's action than the Dewalt, noticeably more movement. 3) I wanted to try out that light/shadow system to see if it's as accurate as many reviewers claim.

A lot of the reviews I read indicated the early Dewalt 780's had rough movement issues in the slide. There was none that I could experience in the display model or in the one I took out of the box in my shop last night.

Last week when I thought I was going to have a Hitachi 12" in the shop, I ordered a 12" blade from Infinity. It is supposed to deliver today. With the cost of a good blade I exceeded my wife's budget. She's normally very forgiving. I did give up the idea of a new miter stand for now but I think I know which one I want when I get into 2017's tool budget. LOL!
This morning I will begin removing the old Delta and installing the new Dewalt on my existing miter stand. I will probably play around with using my shop vac and my DC on it to see which gives me the best results for dust collection.

[George Bokros]

My BIL has a DeWalt miter saw with the shadow light. I saw it last month when I went down to their house in KY to help him hang a bunch of drywall. Though I did not use his miter saw, I did see it in use and I think I would like the shadow light much better than the laser on my Hitachi miter saw. It shows the exact width of the blade cut so it is accurate not matter which side of the blade your good piece is. I cannot adjust the laser on my saw to equal the width of the blade so it is never accurate on both sides of the blade.

[Van Huskey]

The 780 is a good choice.

The question is are you still ruminating on drum sander options?

[Ben Rivel]

The issues with the DWS780 that people had were with the first version. While I was researching them I called DeWalt and they were able to tell me the part numbers that had been changed with the first version and how they were improved on the latest one. So in the one I have I do not see the issues people were complaining about in the first version.

That said in my garage right now I actually have BOTH the DeWalt DWS780 and the Bosch GCM12SD. I bought the DeWalt not too long ago (even still have the box!) and jumped on the Black Friday deal AcmeTools ran for the Bosch. I am in the middle of comparing the two but Im planning to keep the Bosch simply for the fact that it's design doesnt need near the room behind it for the sliding mechanism that the DeWalt needs. Thats a big deal to me since I dont have much room in my shop.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The 780 is a good choice.

The question is are you still ruminating on drum sander options?

Yes but that expense is out a ways! I have to sneak those bigger items into a conversation and get m CFO used to the idea while I play up the importance!:D

[Van Huskey]

Yes but that expense is out a ways! I have to sneak those bigger items into a conversation and get m CFO used to the idea while I play up the importance!:D


I understand that process.

[Bruce Wrenn]

HD has a 90 day (I think it's a year now) return policy. Unhappy, take it back. While I don't have a newer saw like yours, my old 705 has been a work horse.

[julian abram]

Ken, congrats on the new Dewalt slider, now you have to report back on how well it makes sawdust. I've eyeballed that saw several times a the local HD and something has always puzzled me about it, not smart enough to figure out. It has a decal that advertises a 16" max crosscut capacity but looks that requires removing the fence and resting the board on the swivel base. Don't know how you would cut a board square or support it properly in that configuration. Almost seems like false advertising. I don't know of any 12" slider that will crosscut greater that about 13.5-14" at 90 degrees. When you get it set up and start playing with it, figure that out and let me know how to get a 16" crosscut.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Julian, I can assure you there won't be any 16" crosscuts on that saw even.....EVEN.....I mean "Even" if it does it.

What I read said it would cut a little over 14" IIRC.

[Al Launier]

Impressive looking saw Ken! Congratulations. Don't know how you could go wrong with a Deawalt.

[Justin Ludwig]

Yes but that expense is out a ways! I have to sneak those bigger items into a conversation and get m CFO used to the idea while I play up the importance!:D

It's worth it if you love a dependable, accurate, and durable saw.

I zero'd my two years ago. It gets taken all over the place for installs. I double checked it last weekend because I'm making some x-mas gifts that require zero tolerance. It's still dead-nutz on everything.

Spend the money. Use the saw. Be happy.

Also, I don't have a clue why there is a debate on what's better for accuracy: a movable laser or a shadow. Shadows don't lie.

[Justin Ludwig]

Don't know how you would cut a board square or support it properly in that configuration. Almost seems like false advertising. I don't know of any 12" slider that will crosscut greater that about 13.5-14" at 90 degrees. When you get it set up and start playing with it, figure that out and let me know how to get a 16" crosscut.

You have to pick up on the board to get last couple of inches. It raises into the arc of the blade. I've done it hundreds of times when building closets because the ply is ripped at 15-7/8".

[julian abram]

You have to pick up on the board to get last couple of inches. It raises into the arc of the blade. I've done it hundreds of times when building closets because the ply is ripped at 15-7/8".

Hmm, I've picked up boards to cut maybe the last 1/2" on a miter saw crosscut but to move it up into the blade to cut the last 2" would be a little "scary" for me.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

It's worth it if you love a dependable, accurate, and durable saw.

I zero'd my two years ago. It gets taken all over the place for installs. I double checked it last weekend because I'm making some x-mas gifts that require zero tolerance. It's still dead-nutz on everything.

Spend the money. Use the saw. Be happy.

Also, I don't have a clue why there is a debate on what's better for accuracy: a movable laser or a shadow. Shadows don't lie.


Justin....that post of mine was in response to Van's asking about me getting a drum sander not my new saw.

[Justin Ludwig]

Yeah, I reread the full thread and realized my post was in vain. But I do stand behind my endorsement in that post. ;) Congrats!



Hmm, I've picked up boards to cut maybe the last 1/2" on a miter saw crosscut but to move it up into the blade to cut the last 2" would be a little "scary" for me.

It's not for the faint of heart. Though it doesn't pose serious risk, other than ruining a peice, it does take some practice. Biggest issue is having a fence that supports the piece you're cutting that is at least greater than half the length of of the piece. Example: if trimming a 15x96 rip of plywood, the fence needs to be >=48" from the blade if you're trimming the end. And please note: the lift method does NOT work with bevels or miters. 90* only.

[Jim Dwight]

Congratulations! I never considered that saw and didn't realize the Hitachi is not in production any more. I like my DeWalt track saw and sanders, I don't see anything wrong with the brand.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim,

Only the original version Hitachi C12RSH isn't in production. The new version Hitachi C12RSH2 is in production but things have changed. On the C12RSH2 they removed the micro-adjustment knobs for the bevel and miter cuts and changed the base arrangement.

[Chris Hachet]

My old Delta sliding compound miter saw finally gave up the ghost. My wife gave me a budget and said buy it for my Christmas present. Initially I determined I wanted a Hitachi C12RSH for a replacement but...they aren't manufactured anymore. Though one retailer advertises they have less than 20 new ones in stock but they shipped me a Hitachi C12RSH2 which isn't what I ordered or wanted. So I returned it without even opening the box.

Now the analysis paralysis. I looked aa a couple dozen reviews, read the information about the products at the manufacturer's website and even went to the local HD to dry fire a couple models.

In the end it came down to two saws would meet my needs and they both showed in stock at my local HD. The two saws were the Bosch GCM12SD and the Dewalt DWS780.

Online both saws were the same price delivered to my home. At the local HD, the Bosch was $50 more but the Dewalt DWS780 was the same as the online price. Last night I drove to my local HD and tested both saws side-by-side. In the end I paid sales tax and brought my first major Dewalt tool home. I chose it over the Bosch for several reasons, 1) I just wasn't comfortable having to use the safety switch on the Bosch every time I wanted to start the saw. It may get easier to use after some normal use but it wasn't that convenient. 2) The Bosch just had more lateral movement in it's action than the Dewalt, noticeably more movement. 3) I wanted to try out that light/shadow system to see if it's as accurate as many reviewers claim.

A lot of the reviews I read indicated the early Dewalt 780's had rough movement issues in the slide. There was none that I could experience in the display model or in the one I took out of the box in my shop last night.

Last week when I thought I was going to have a Hitachi 12" in the shop, I ordered a 12" blade from Infinity. It is supposed to deliver today. With the cost of a good blade I exceeded my wife's budget. She's normally very forgiving. I did give up the idea of a new miter stand for now but I think I know which one I want when I get into 2017's tool budget. LOL!
This morning I will begin removing the old Delta and installing the new Dewalt on my existing miter stand. I will probably play around with using my shop vac and my DC on it to see which gives me the best results for dust collection.


Enjoy, my Dewalt compound Miter saw has given me a decade of faithful service, with nary an issue....

[Mike Holbrook]

Hi Ken,

My old Dewalt 12" chop saw survived for around 20 years cutting untold amounts of lumber, building a 60x30' 2 story building, finishing a basement....The Depot was running a special on the DWS 780 and a work stand. I could not resist a total solution that saved me having to build a tool cabinet/stand, at least for a while. I am in the process of moving to N GA and a mobile but stable package with wheels was very attractive. I have the new saw and stand together. This PM I will be zeroing all the adjustments. I found the tolerances and light over the blade very attractive too, having compared the same two saws side by side. Later I will start processing the lumber for my new bench, and several other projects.... 8/4 x 8-10" European Beech, Ash and South American "Mahogany" should test the new saws abilities.
I am happy with my purchase and hope you are too.

[Bill McNiel]

Ken,
About 6 years ago I bought the DWS780 with the roller stand (everyone needs 4 chop saws, right?). I have been very happy with it but be warned it took a lot of work to get it squared up. Once tuned properly it has stayed true and I have been pleased with its performance. The "Shadow Knows"!
Regards - Bill

[Leo Graywacz]

20 years ago I got the 8 1/2" Hitachi slider, awesome saw and I still have it. Since I like that so much and I needed to upgrade to a larger blade saw for the shop I picked up the C12RSH without even trying it out. Saw is sub par in a lot of respects. It's relegated to rough cutting in my shop now.

I bought the Bosch Axial Glide saw and it's been a great saw after I tuned it in. Out of the box the tune sucked. Now it's dead nuts and I can do a lot of things that I couldn't do with the Hitachi. I'm more than pleased with the Bosch.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Ken,

If you haven't done so yet, you might consider the Colliflower Zero Clearance Insert (http://www.colliflower-zci.com/all-products/copy-of-zero-clearance-plate-dewalt-miter-saw) for your DWS780. These are also available from Infinity Tools (https://www.infinitytools.com/saw-blades-accessories/miter-saw-blades-accessories/miter-saw-zero-clearance-inserts/z-c-i-for-dewalt-miter-saws), Item 100-333, but I bought mine from Colliflower since it was on continuous backorder from Infinity Tools.

The stock DWS780 insert is two pieces and is adjustable, but I was still seeing tear out. After installing the Colliflower insert, the tear out is gone.

[Justin Ludwig]

Ken,

If you haven't done so yet, you might consider the Colliflower Zero Clearance Insert (http://www.colliflower-zci.com/all-products/copy-of-zero-clearance-plate-dewalt-miter-saw) for your DWS780. These are also available from Infinity Tools (https://www.infinitytools.com/saw-blades-accessories/miter-saw-blades-accessories/miter-saw-zero-clearance-inserts/z-c-i-for-dewalt-miter-saws), Item 100-333, but I bought mine from Colliflower since it was on continuous backorder from Infinity Tools.

The stock DWS780 insert is two pieces and is adjustable, but I was still seeing tear out. After installing the Colliflower insert, the tear out is gone.

If you do any amount of bevel and compound bevel cuts an insert is gonna get chewed up. That Colliflower looks nice but I'd have to be making 10 inserts at a time to take with me. Best method with a SCMS to not get tear-out: score the top of piece then "slide out" and cut through the material at full depth. If you have material so wide that you cannot get the blade out past it's width, I use a scrap board underneath. YMMV



I like that Colliflower site. Seems anything he/she owns - they will make quality replacement parts/accessories for it.

[Mike Kreinhop]

If you do any amount of bevel and compound bevel cuts an insert is gonna get chewed up. That Colliflower looks nice but I'd have to be making 10 inserts at a time to take with me.

I have simple needs, but bought two packs of the replacement inserts (eight total) just in case. So far, all I have needed are the 90 and two 45-degree cuts.