Delta 14" BS - help troubleshooting

[Justin Ludwig]

I've read and read and read. Watched vids. Read some more.

I bought a 14" Delta bandsaw from my best friend, whom I used to work with and was working with when he bought it new in '08. It's been a great saw even when we (and then myself) didn't have it dialed in. I'm starting to do a lot more work with it and I'm having trouble getting it where I'm happy with the cut results - and it doesn't sound smooth.

Wheels are balanced. Wheels are NOT coplanar - normal for this bandsaw. I've set this saw up using the Snodgrass methodology. With a 1/4" blade or smaller I can barely get the upper wheel adjustable so the blade rides center of gullet. The camber maxes out with the adjustment knob screwed all the way in for <= 1/4" blades. >=3/8" blades I can not get the camber adjusted before the wheel starts rubbing the "cowling". I can barely get the blades to ride center of wheel, let alone center of the gullet.

Now - here's a kicker and hopefully a hint to my problem. I had to install the upper wheel backwards to get the <=1/4 blades to center over the gullet. With it installed as from factory, I could get the camber set before the wheel rubbed the cowling. The upper bearings are not centered in the wheel, but are maybe 1/16" difference front to back. I have new bearings on hand if I have to pull those.

The upper blade guide adjustment can not come far enough forward to put the "cooling blocks" 1/16" behind the gullet.

The attached photos don't show much. You can see the rub marks on the upper cowling and that the wheel is installed backwards. The bottom wheel shows how far forward the blade rides. That blade is a
Timber Wolf® 1/2" x 3PC. The urethane upper tire starts to come off after resawing material with this blade. I may have the tension too tight and as the blade tracks forward after pressure is released from cutting it's "pulling the tire" with it.


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Condensed question: 1) Why is my camber adjustment maxing out on small blades and not able to get 3/8-3/4" blades properly set? I think if I can solve this problem, then the blade guide problem with be solved.

Possible solutions: Shim upper wheel out (if this is done, then I HAVE to shim out lower wheel and now by blade guides are even farther away from gullet. Buy Carter's band saw guides to remedy (an expensive solution).

Yes, I emailed Delta and never heard back.

[Geoff Crimmins]

You might check out the triangular bracket that the upper wheel axle is attached to. Sometimes this bracket gets bent, making it difficult to adjust the tracking. The tires should have a convex crown to them, or the blade won't track well. The wheels on the bandsaw are crowned, so the tires should follow that crown, but it's possible they are worn flat or have grooves worn in them. In any case, the fact that you've had the tire move/slip is a sign that there's something wrong with the tires. You might consider replacing them. I think the Delta 14" bandsaw has great guides, and I would consider the Carters a downgrade. In any case, the guides are the cause of your problem. You also might check to see if the upper arm of the saw has moved sideways out of alignment with the lower half of the saw. You can see the upper arm is attached with a large bolt. It's possible it was assembled out of alignment, or somehow got out of alignment later.

--Geoff

[John TenEyck]

I could never get my 14" Delta to track a narrow blade w/o the upper rubbing on the back of the wheel housing, just like yours. Moreover, the saw would never cut parallel to the miter slot, no matter what blade was on it. All that changed when I finally wised up and shimmed the upper wheel out enough to be coplaner with the lower wheel. As if by magic (not really, just simple mechanics) blades can easily be centered on the upper wheel, the wheel doesn't rub on the housing, and it cuts straight and parallel with the miter slot.

Snodgrass, IMHO, does people a huge disservice when he says that you should not even consider checking whether the wheels on the saw are coplaner; that the manufacturers know more than you and have set the saw up properly. I say a saw with coplaner wheels can't be bad, whether or not it was set up that way originally. My new Grizzly cuts beautifully straight. Guess what? The wheels are coplaner.

Shim the wheels coplaner. I think you will be happily surprised. You can always put it back the way was if not.

John

[Carroll Courtney]

Justin with the blade off does the upper wheel feel normal,just in/out(top/bottom) movement and not any sideways movement?Guessing the tires have crown in them.

[Lee Schierer]

First off, a 14" delta BS cannot properly tension a 3/4" blade. Second problem. You are not supposed to have the blade so that "the blade rides center of gullet" on the crown of the wheel. The proper way is so the blade is centered on the upper wheel. That way the teeth do not touch the wheel surface and cause excessive tire wear. Basically you are over adjusting the upper wheel.
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I own a 14" Delta BS and it cuts just fine with the blade centered on the upper wheel. Here is a pretty good guide for tuning up your bandsaw (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/american-woodworker-blog/tune-bandsaw).

[Chris Fournier]

While a Delta 14"er may not properly tension a 3/4" blade I resawed plenty for guitar backs and sides with exactly this set up for years. I adjusted the blades so that the teeth were forward of the centre of the wheel, not touching it. Once I had it tracking like this I adjusted the blade guides to the blade. Never failed, perhaps you can try this?

[Justin Ludwig]

You might check out the triangular bracket that the upper wheel axle is attached to. Sometimes this bracket gets bent, making it difficult to adjust the tracking. I'll check it. The tires are convex and look fine. They are tight. I think I have that 1/2 blade tracked too far back and too tight of tension. I'll play with it tomorrow.


I could never get my 14" Delta to track a narrow blade w/o the upper rubbing on the back of the wheel housing, just like yours. Moreover, the saw would never cut parallel to the miter slot, no matter what blade was on it. All that changed when I finally wised up and shimmed the upper wheel out enough to be coplaner with the lower wheel. As if by magic (not really, just simple mechanics) blades can easily be centered on the upper wheel, the wheel doesn't rub on the housing, and it cuts straight and parallel with the miter slot.

Snodgrass, IMHO, does people a huge disservice when he says that you should not even consider checking whether the wheels on the saw are coplaner; that the manufacturers know more than you and have set the saw up properly. I say a saw with coplaner wheels can't be bad, whether or not it was set up that way originally. My new Grizzly cuts beautifully straight. Guess what? The wheels are coplaner. I have the same problems. I was going to shim the wheel last week but didn't have any washers. The problem with this is that it takes my blade farther from the side guides which already don't reach the gullet of a 1/2" blade.


Justin with the blade off does the upper wheel feel normal,just in/out(top/bottom) movement and not any sideways movement?Guessing the tires have crown in them. The bearings are tight, but not so much to cause noise, excess heat or worry. I have spares. No side play in the wheel. Yes, the tires are crowned.


First off, a 14" delta BS cannot properly tension a 3/4" blade. Second problem. You are not supposed to have the blade so that "the blade rides center of gullet" on the crown of the wheel. The proper way is so the blade is centered on the upper wheel. That way the teeth do not touch the wheel surface and cause excessive tire wear. Basically you are over adjusting the upper wheel. And here is where there is so much conflicting information. I think a person should experiment with their saw and do what feels/cuts best. I'm not opposed to anything at this point, as I'm in full-blown "I'll try anything mode". My saw will tension a 3/4" blade just fine. I've resawn 5" QSWO and made several custom curved posts (cutting the meat out) with it. I bent it while resawing a 72" log of bois d'arc. the 1/2" works just as well, so I'll stick with it. So, I guess we agree in sorts.


I adjusted the blades so that the teeth were forward of the centre of the wheel, not touching it. Once I had it tracking like this I adjusted the blade guides to the blade. Never failed, perhaps you can try this?That's where I'm attempting to get the blades which is centering the gullet on the crown.

I can get my 1/4" 8TPI blade tuned in nicely and it cuts great (though not parallel with miter slot), BUT the camber is almost maxed out.

I'll play with it tomorrow and take a video of the camber adjustment and show how the blade guides are maxed out and still not behind the gullet of a 1/2" blade.

[John TenEyck]

If moving the wheel forward takes the blade further forward of the guides, and you can't adjust the guides forward far enough to match the blade, then the upper frame is likely twisted out of alignment with the lower half of the frame. This is why you need to check the wheels for alignment. Simple to do. Take the table off and put a straight edge across the wheels. Tilt the upper wheel until it aligns with the lower wheel. Check on each side of center. That will tell you if you have to shim the upper wheel and/or readjust the frame alignment. Also the edges of the upper wheel need to be in the same vertical alignment.

John

[Van Huskey]

You might check out the triangular bracket that the upper wheel axle is attached to. Sometimes this bracket gets bent, making it difficult to adjust the tracking.
--Geoff


That is the first thing to determine, the upper support hinge is the weak point of that saw (remember is was designed 80 years ago for use with a 1/4" blade). They get bent (or break) from over-tension and screw everything up. When the wheel rubs the cover that is the first thing to rule out.

PS if you actually tensioned a 3/4" blade properly on that saw (~15,000 psi for a standard carbon steel blade) you likely did it with either an aftermarket spring or by bottoming out the stock spring, in either case you were asking too much of the stock wheel hinge (the reason Iturra used to manufacturer a beefier hinge) and it may well be the root of the problem.

[glenn bradley]

I also found nirvana as John did when I took the time to get my wheels co-planner. I know many people pooh-pooh this but it worked for me and all my saws are set up this way. Blade drift is a myth in my shop.

[Van Huskey]

I also found nirvana as John did when I took the time to get my wheels co-planner. I know many people pooh-pooh this but it worked for me and all my saws are set up this way. Blade drift is a myth in my shop.

Co-planer is such an issue because it doesn't matter (within reason) on some saws (flat tires) but can matter a lot on saws with tall crowns (like you find on 14" Delta and clones). Add to this when Alex's video becomes the "standard" for setting up l small saws and he discounts the issue almost entirely. On high crowned saws if the wheels aren't co-planer the crowns compete pulling the blade in different directions so reasonably co-planer is important BUT shouldn't be the first place people look since Alex (Snodgrass) is correct that some saws are built with a particular level of offset by design. This is all compounded on the 14" Delta saws since they weren't designed for larger blades and wide blades are where co-planer is important.

[michael langman]

Just last night I was reassembling a Rockwell 28-240 band saw for the first time. The upper wheel was a 7/32" behind the lower wheel. The saw ran fine when I bought it last summer, but I hadn't looked at thet racking of the blade.

Never the less, I took 2- 3/8" steel washers and drilled the inside hole out to 5/8" on the driil press. Pulled the top wheel off and installed the wheel. The top wheel is now right on coplanar with the lower wheel.

The blade tracks fine o the middle of the wheel, top and bottom.

[Justin Ludwig]

The wheels were out of co-planer by the thickness of one 3/4" flat washer. The bottom wheel needed to come out. The upper wheel still has to be installed backwards to get a 1/2" blade properly tracked with tension. The saw is cutting great. I cheated and removed the adjustment knob on the upper side guides so I could move them into proper place, but this doesn't fix the underlying problem (of which I'm still baffled).

348944 348945 348946 348947 This pick shows the remaining issue.

Here's a couple pics of a short board of QSWO that is 4-1/2" wide. I did a quick freehand resaw. The table was 1/32" out of square when I started and the piece was track to the right. Once I leveled the table, the piece fed easily and square to the miter slot.

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Never the less, I took 2- 3/8" steel washers and drilled the inside hole out to 5/8" on the driil press. Pulled the top wheel off and installed the wheel. The top wheel is now right on coplanar with the lower wheel. I considered shimming out the upper wheel. If I do that, then the bottom wheel needs two shims and I'm even farther from the side guides current capabilities.