Delta Rockwell TS... good deal?

[andrew whicker]

Ladies and gents,

Here is an unknown specimen of a tablesaw (to me). A Delta Rockwell. I read they didn't make very good equipment, but the table itself looks pretty nice. I'll call and ask some basic questions Monday.

link: http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=1746284

[Cary Falk]

Looks like a Delta/Rockwell 12/14 saw. It's a 12" saw. A Uni on steroids. People see the peace sign era of Delta Rockwell as not as good as what was previous. Others will say it is better than anything you can get today. If you are interested it will be a fine saw. I can't remember but it might have a 1" arvor instead of the std 5/8". You might want to check that out before you bid. OWWM would be a good resource to check out. The auction will most likely not be able to answer your questions.

[Rollie Meyers]

Came close to pulling the trigger on one a few years ago, ultimately chose not to because do not have real estate for one, be aware that it is most likely a 3 phase machine but a 12/14 saw is a desirable machine, I did buy a former school machine, 1973 vintage Unisaw that am quite pleased with, while a much larger tool the 12/14 should not be sneered at they are a quality machine.

[Matt Day]

That's a nice saw and I'd be happy to have one. I believe Cary is correct that it does have a 1" arbor but you can have blades bored it for little money. You can use standard 10" blades then.

I think the blade opening is further forward than a Uni which is the location most of us are used to so it makes you lean more - if you're short that may be a deal breaker.

Also, you've got over a week before it closes so the bid will likely go up quite a bit.

[Charles Lent]

Thats a BIG saw. If you have the room and likely 3 phase power for it you will have a great saw. They have one where I work. I believe they were made with either a 5 or 7.5 hp motor and the one at work is a 5 hp. I can't imagine needing a larger motor than 5 hp. After running the saw at work, I come home to my shop and my 52" Unisaw is tiny by comparison. They are super reliable and every bit as well made and precise as a Unisaw.

This saw is quite likely going to need a good tear down, cleaning, and lubrication, likely also bearings and belts. Make sure the motor is good before buying it. I doubt that there will be many bidders, as most will want a smaller saw than this.

Good luck with your bidding. It's too big for my shop and way too far away.

Charley

[jack duren]

There just old heavy tools. Working there worth something. To a collector even more. Those prices will climb.

[Mike Cutler]

Ladies and gents,

Here is an unknown specimen of a tablesaw (to me). A Delta Rockwell. I read they didn't make very good equipment, but the table itself looks pretty nice. I'll call and ask some basic questions Monday.

link: http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=1746284

Delta Rockwell actually made some pretty good machines early on.
They were pretty robust machines that are worth overhauling and setting up as new. That one falls into that category. It may never have much "collector" value assigned to it, but as an every day table saw. It's going to be hard to beat. Delta kept the quality in their heavier machinery lineup for a longer time that their consumer prosumer lines.

Delta Rockwell went through various re-org's and changed the product line to meet market demand through the years, so knowing the vintage of the machine is somewhat important. There is a ton of info out there on Delta machines, broken down by serial numbers and years of production. The OWWM website will have more info that you can probably process in one sitting.

Make no mistakes that Jack is right, that the price will probably go up. There are many people that buy the Delta machines and "part them out". It's not uncommon to see that just one or two parts, are worth more than the machine was bought for by themselves. You'd be stunned at how much an OEM handle or knob can go for. ;)

[Jamie Buxton]

Does an old saw like this have any provision for dust collection?

[Cary Falk]

Does an old saw like this have any provision for dust collection?

Yes. The dust builds in the bottom of the cabinet and you scoop it out through the dust door.:D

[Justin Ludwig]

Yes. The dust builds in the bottom of the cabinet and you scoop it out through the dust door.:D

Laughed out loud at that one.

[Ronald Blue]

Here is a link to one and I Cary nailed it as to what it is. If you are close it looks like it could be a brute and it looks to be in pretty good shape. Get a VFD and you could be in business.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?170282-Official-gloat-Rockwell-12-14-table-saw

[mark kosse]

Just to show you the size of that saw here is a pic of a 12/14 wing and a uni wing. I would get it if it was close.

[Dave Cav]

They are excellent saws. I have a later model. This one comes with a Bies fence and the factory miter gauge which is a huge plus as the miter gauge slot is non standard and the miter gauges are highly sought after. It is the same height as a Unisaw, but the blade is considerably farther back so it takes some getting used to. It will have a 1" arbor, and 12" blades with a 1" hole are readily available. You can run a 14" blade as well, but it will not quite go all the way below the table when retracted. There is no point in having a 10" blade bored for 1"; the whole reason for this saw is to be able to run a larger blade. The saw and all of it's parts are pretty heavy, relatively speaking (over 600 pounds) and it will almost surely be 3 phase. The internals are identical to a Unisaw, just much bigger and heavier, and it's a right tilt. There is a great deal of information on these saws over at OWWM and Vintage Machinery.

I'll be moving to Logan this spring if you get it and need any help.....

[Dave Cav]

Laughed out loud at that one.


Actually it should have a 4" dust pick up connection on the back/bottom, but like most older design cabinet saws, it doesn't work very well. The way I use mine is to let the sawdust build up in the cabinet and then use a stick to shove it into the hose inlet. It's easier than shoveling it out.

[Rich Riddle]

I had one for a long time. It ended up being more saw than needed for the shop so it now lives at a friends shop. They're monsters but if you have the room, get it.

[andrew whicker]

Wow, you guys are awesome!

I have a 1993 Unisaw, I was actually looking at this for re-sale value. But it's so big that keeping it around for months to wait for it to sell (being that it's 3 phase) doesn't sound appealing to me. Sounds like an awesome saw though.

That wing comparison is wild.

I just installed 100A, single phase in my garage. Someday I'm going to get 3 phase because all the good stuff is 3 phase. And stuff gets a lot cheaper too.

Thanks again,

Andy

[Charles Lent]

A lot of power companies will not run three phase power to a residence, only to commercial buildings. If you want to buy 3 phase equipment, you may be better off adding a phase converter and a three phase breaker panel to your shop for those machines that require it. If only adding a couple of three phase machines, the solid state converters for each machine would be cheaper. A big rotary phase converter is nothing more than a big three phase motor with no output shaft, but it has a special starting circuit to get it turning with only single phase power going to it. I've built some using a standard three phase motor and used a smaller single phase motor and shaft coupling between their shafts. The single phase motor is on a timer so it shuts off in 15 seconds, enough time to get the 3 phase motor spinning at about the right speed. The output will run any three phase motor or combination of three phase motors of lessor total hp than the phase converter motor.

For resale, a large custom cabinet shop or furniture manufacturer would be the likely customers. It's too much saw for most home shops, even if they have three phase power. The one at my workplace is in the exhibits shop of a large museum that builds many of their own exhibits.

Charley

[andrew whicker]

Charley,

My plan is to make enough money making furniture to afford rent on a 3 phase commercial space. I already spent over a $1000 putting way more power into a two car garage than any home buyer is going to pay for. : )

Here's a guy selling a beefy 16" jointer, rotary converter and sliding saw for $2000: http://vintagemachinery.org/classifieds/detail.aspx?id=12125

[andrew whicker]

Charley,

How much horsepower gets lost when converting to 3 phase? So if the motor is 10 hp, 220 v 3ph (for example) and you convert electricity to 3ph from 1ph, what is your expected motor hp? Do you draw the motor rating plate amperage at your breaker box or do you draw more when converting 1ph to 3ph?

Cheers,

[andrew whicker]

Ah, I wikipedia'd it.

2/3*Total HP due to losing a 'leg'

[Matt Day]

You loose HP only when using a static phase converter. Rotary phase converters and VFD's don't loose horsepower.