Your Lie-Nielsen plane is not a collectable. They still make them. Please stop.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

It's like the "Beanie Babies" trend, only much more costly. Here are a few of the latest eBay attempts at making a giant profit off a Lie-Nielsen tool. At least with the white bronze limited editions they are actually limited, but come on- stop the madness. $1250???

348762348763348764348765

Even the empty box is collectable. Great news- I have enough boxes to pay for a new No. 8. I'd better get those posted.

348766

Rosewood handle- I get it- and they don't make that handle any more, but is the handle worth the additional $200? I'm going to say no- no it isn't.

348768

End rant.

[Jim Koepke]

Oh come on, let them waste their money how ever they want. In 100 years our grandchildren's grandchildren might be able to pick them up at a yard sale for cheap because know one knows what it is.

My 'collectable' tools tend to get sold off and the good users stay in the shop. Yesterday some time was spent cleaning up a 1/2" Stanley 750 chisel. It is a nice chisel and tempting me to keep it as a user even though my shop runneth over with 1/2" chisels.

jtk

[Jebediah Eckert]

So true Malcolm, so true......I share in your amazement on the prices.

[Glen Canaday]

That's just the tip of that iceberg.

Grab a beer, sit back, and have a chuckle as you read the search results for "rare plane."

One of my favorites was the back half of a #4 billed as a "rare chisel plane," ....and it actually got two bids!

[Malcolm Schweizer]

That's just the tip of that iceberg.

Grab a beer, sit back, and have a chuckle as you read the search results for "rare plane."

One of my favorites was the back half of a #4 billed as a "rare chisel plane," ....and it actually got two bids!

To be fair, there aren't many back half of a #4 converted to a chisel plane- they may be on point calling that "rare." :D

[John T Barker]

I learned a little while ago that the custom on ebay is to price things way above what they are worth in the hope that a fool will buy it or close to the ridiculous price.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I learned a little while ago that the custom on ebay is to price things way above what they are worth in the hope that a fool will buy it or close to the ridiculous price.

A fool and his money are soon parted on eBay. (Old saying with a modern twist.)

[Mike Brady]

Those two white bronze planes are actually special editions and theoretically should increase in value. These ads are primarily for foreign markets. The chisel plane is an earlier model, but I find that that has no positive effect on value. If Lie-Nielsen ever does go out of business, then you might find values increasing considerably, but let's hope that never happens. Its not all​ about the dollar value.

[lowell holmes]

My three Lie Nielsen planes are "collectibles" to me. They are not the bench planes though.

I have Bedrocks for bench planes except for my #3 Bailey, which is my go to plane for most tasks.

[Bill Houghton]

One of my favorites was the back half of a #4 billed as a "rare chisel plane," ....and it actually got two bids!
I wonder what the front half sold for? Somewhere in here there's a joke involving the value of the different ends of a horse...

The bidders may have seen the plane corpse as a source for parts they needed.

[Jim Koepke]

I wonder what the front half sold for? Somewhere in here there's a joke involving the value of the different ends of a horse...

The bidders may have seen the plane corpse as a source for parts they needed.

My recollection is it sold for more than a parts plane would sell. I recall this one from a couple of years ago.

jtk

[Joe Williams]

Ebay is a weird phenomenon, I am noticing I can sell most of my Lie Nielsen tools for more than I paid. Also, the jointer planes for 3k are insane. I realize they stopped making that one but still.

[James Bosley]

I was looking for a source for prices of Lie Nielsen planes that are out of production that I have sold this past year and found this thread. Most of my LN planes were bought at 3/4 of new price as used, typically in like new with box condition. I need to deduct the cost of these asset sales from income tax as reported by eBay sales (over $20K, not all LN.) No one can see the future clearly, and maybe some of the posters were hoping people would not drive up the prices of LN merchandise thinking them collectable thus making them less affordable. Most of my LN sales were at 2x to 4x, or more, of new original prices. I have kept LNs that make the end of the process of wood prep easier and use restored Stanleys for less demanding work. I have not gone away from LN. I just bought a #51 new from LN and would like to buy a new #6 now that it is again in production, but I'll wait til the market makes them available as used for less. And so it goes, round and round.

[Derek Cohen]

I use all my planes, and have not ever considered selling them just because they have risen in value. Here are a couple. Curiosity asks what they might command ...

Lie Nielsen Anniversary #4 1/2 alongside a bronze #3 with Rosewood handles ...

https://i.postimg.cc/6qJXfgBW/2-zpsivpduglr.jpg

Lie Nielsen #140 skew block plane. This was the first made. I discovered this when I was restoring it with the assistance of Thomas LN. It is slightly longer than the current model, and has a W1 blade.

https://i.postimg.cc/cLfqs5hD/LNSkew-Rabbet-Block-Plane-Restoration-html-2e54e39f.jpg

Taken before the addition of a Rosewood knob (a gift from LN Australia many years ago when I would demonstrate for them at tool shows) ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/LNSkewRabbetBlockPlaneRestoration_html_m299a290a.j pg

What about a 1882 Miller Patent Plough Plane by Paul Hamler?

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/1882MillerPatentPloughPlane_html_m1daa1689.jpg


One-of-a-kind Veritas BU Smoother (okay, I modified it ..) ..

https://i.postimg.cc/4drWNWNT/BUSMOD2.jpg

Can you get the NX60 any longer? One of the most beautiful planes ever.

https://i.postimg.cc/qRfFpcb8/Block3-zpseb1yzo2f.jpg

There are many more. I could never part with them. They all have a story and fond memories.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rob Luter]

I'm just glad I got my core kit before the prices got insane. On the flip side, I did well on all my vintage stuff when I sold it and that provided a generous subsidy for the new gear.

[roger wiegand]

Worrying about what other people pay for stuff is amusing, I guess. I'd rather go to the shop and build something.

I'm reminded by the then crazy prices people were paying for 45 and 55 combination planes a couple decades ago when they were the "must have" item. Most people who bought them discovered that they were nice to look at in their boxes and not a whole lot more. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure a few people actually learned to use them and get good use out of them, but I'm guessing most are display items.

I'm contemplating buying a very pricey rasp. Talk about an item that will get thrown in the "$5 a box" pile at the auction!

[Adam Grund]

I'm just glad I got my core kit before the prices got insane. On the flip side, I did well on all my vintage stuff when I sold it and that provided a generous subsidy for the new gear.

Maybe it’s just me, but speaking to the selection of planes- it just seems crazy to me for all the work that goes in to milling a plane and the human touch in the process, in 2023 and still maintaining a profit, they seem cheap to me. I can’t tell you what I think they should be, but for a 4 1/2 for example- $360 just doesn’t seem like it leaves a lot on the table.
Maybe I’m overthinking it 🤷🏼*♂️

[Jack Frederick]

As ME was one of my biggest markets in my business I was up there all the time & used to stop at LN pretty regularly. Actually I got so I wouldn’t drive the coast road and stuck to Rt95 to slow down my buys;) Probably 25 yrs ago I had a conversation with Tom in the showroom and asked why he didn’t number them and he was polite but emphatic stating that he made tools to do work and not be simply “collectibles.” The market in some respects is nuts all ready. Imagine if they had Ser #’s.

[Adam Grund]

Probably 25 yrs ago I had a conversation with Tom in the showroom and asked why he didn’t number them and he was polite but emphatic stating that he made tools to do work and not be simply “collectibles.” The market in some respects is nuts all ready. Imagine if they had Ser #’s.

I don’t remember where I read it, but recently someone had commented about lie Nielsen should charge more for something (can’t remember) as to not undercut the collector market. It made me chuckle a bit that someone would think a maker of new tools would be interested in preserving the 2nd hand tool market values.

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

that is quiet the flex there Derek. Ill send you my doctors bill, I may have slipped on a puddle of my own drool...

[James Bosley]

I swore they would have to pry my colds dead fingers from my 4 1/2 Anniversary plane, but....I sold mine for $1,786 last year. Priorities change.

[john jesseph]

I was an early adopter of Lie Nielsen planes. I’ve sold them off though, keeping only the low angle jack and the 102 as users. The Stanleys get by just fine for benchwork.

I do have one of those anniversary number 2 planes in a pile to sell, when I get around to it.

[Derek Cohen]

that is quiet the flex there Derek. Ill send you my doctors bill, I may have slipped on a puddle of my own drool...

Apology Assaf :)

I understand the point made originally by Malcolm. Here I have some stupendous tools which, with the exception of the plough, all get used. The plough is a work of art, and is the only tool I have on display, and is in my living room. The other planes were aspirations which came to fruition when funds permitted. They bring pleasure in use, and I do not need (or care) to make excuses that I build furniture with nice tools.

No doubt we all develop a connection with our selection of tools, and they become family. I imagine that those who do not use them much would not invest as much emotion and are more likely to see them as objects. They are also more likely to sell them off dispassionately for a profit. The only investment I see in tools is for the spirit, not the bank account.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark Gibney]

it just seems crazy to me for all the work that goes in to milling a plane and the human touch in the process, in 2023 and still maintaining a profit, they seem cheap to me. I can’t tell you what I think they should be, but for a 4 1/2 for example- $360 just doesn’t seem like it leaves a lot on the table.

I very much agree with you Adam. I look at the complexity of these tools, the quality of the fit and finish, and I'm amazed they aren't up near the $800 - $1,000 mark.

[James Bosley]

Didn't mention that the figure of $1786 is what I netted after eBay and taxes. The new owner paid approx a third more than that~ $2300.

[Rob Luter]

Maybe it’s just me, but speaking to the selection of planes- it just seems crazy to me for all the work that goes in to milling a plane and the human touch in the process, in 2023 and still maintaining a profit, they seem cheap to me. I can’t tell you what I think they should be, but for a 4 1/2 for example- $360 just doesn’t seem like it leaves a lot on the table.
Maybe I’m overthinking it 路*♂️

It's the magic of mass production. Once you get a product tooled up properly it can be very economical to produce even in small (<100) lots. It's all about getting the process dialed in.

[Matthew Eason]

Derek,

I think I've mentioned on another forum those planes you have are worth a small fortune. It's great that you don't see them in terms of their value though. If it were me, I'd probably sell them and buy their iron equivalents (i.e. that 4 1/2) and use the excess funds to buy yet more tools. After all they are just tools and the iron one cuts just as well as the bronze.

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Also, I think there is a bridle plow in your collection that deserves to be on that list

[Warren Mickley]

I very much agree with you Adam. I look at the complexity of these tools, the quality of the fit and finish, and I'm amazed they aren't up near the $800 - $1,000 mark.

The Lie Nielsen planes have lower quality plane irons, vestigial cap irons, and are quite a bit heavier than optimum. All that polishing is not helpful if the result is a plane that is subpar.

[Derek Cohen]

Derek,

I think I've mentioned on another forum those planes you have are worth a small fortune. It's great that you don't see them in terms of their value though. If it were me, I'd probably sell them and buy their iron equivalents (i.e. that 4 1/2) and use the excess funds to buy yet more tools. After all they are just tools and the iron one cuts just as well as the bronze.

Thanks Matthew. It is true that they are just tools. But now I am 73, and have settled with a small collection, and hope to be using these for another decade, at least.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Keegan Shields]

When you want to sell your LN small T&G plane, just let me know Derek...

[Matthew Eason]

I can certainly understand that. You likely have all that you will need so no desire to change things up. I have a Festool vacuum clamping system that's worth over 3 grand according to eBay. But good luck convincing me to part with it. I did consider it, briefly.

[Derek Cohen]

The Lie Nielsen planes have lower quality plane irons, vestigial cap irons, and are quite a bit heavier than optimum. All that polishing is not helpful if the result is a plane that is subpar.

Warren, what you write may be true, however there are many excellent furniture makers building excellent furniture with LN, Veritas, and other heavier-than-desired "premium" planes. The bottom line is that they work, perhaps not at the level you expect, but they do, modern cap irons and all. Gene Landon, an avid plane collector if there ever was one, even owned a Holtey or two.

There are those than can, and do, and those that seek to connect to them. Owning a set of fine hand tools aids in joining the world of the artist and craftsman. I will not criticise them and take away their pleasures.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

When you want to sell your LN small T&G plane, just let me know Derek...

Keegan, are they no longer available? I a am sure they will be again. Just wait a year.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Also, I think there is a bridle plow in your collection that deserves to be on that list

Aaah Assaf, you recall our competition! :) That was a fun time. 11 years ago ... time flies. Here is a link to the build: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BridlePloughBuild.html


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BridlePloughBuild_html_m9a17a9c.jpg




http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BridlePloughBuild_html_m4eb20c71.jpg






http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BridlePloughBuild_html_493e86d5.jpg

Truth is, I prefer using the Veritas Combo as a plough plane.

If FWW had not done a bit of a feature on it, I would consider selling it.

https://i.postimg.cc/Qt2RgGb0/Box1-zpsaba881ce.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/FztCwywZ/Box3-zpsb9c88913.jpg


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Richard Coers]

It's like the "Beanie Babies" trend, only much more costly. Here are a few of the latest eBay attempts at making a giant profit off a Lie-Nielsen tool. At least with the white bronze limited editions they are actually limited, but come on- stop the madness. $1250???

348762348763348764348765

Even the empty box is collectable. Great news- I have enough boxes to pay for a new No. 8. I'd better get those posted.

348766

Rosewood handle- I get it- and they don't make that handle any more, but is the handle worth the additional $200? I'm going to say no- no it isn't.

348768

End rant.
What's your opinion on any of the high end hand made tools? Why should anyone pay extra for Auriou Rasps, Barr Forged Tools, Woodpeckers Precision Tools, Bad Axe saws, Blue Spruce tool works, etc?

[Peter Schussheim]

What's your opinion on any of the high end hand made tools? Why should anyone pay extra for Auriou Rasps, Barr Forged Tools, Woodpeckers Precision Tools, Bad Axe saws, Blue Spruce tool works, etc?

Richard, from my reading of Malcolm's rant (which I fully agree with), he is simply venting what he sees in these auctions. While I do not want to speak for him, he doesn't suggest that high end tools are not worth their premium. Rather, he is focused on the resale of coveted tools by users and collectors.

[Peter Schussheim]

Derek, once again I am so impressed and inspired by that plow and its handsome box...I might have to use a similar design for my own tools :)

[mike stenson]

So it seems that the complaint is that other people are paying too much for stuff. That's a weird complaint IMO, but it has been common recently.. On every board I'm a member of, across multiple hobbies.

[Keegan Shields]

Welcome to the free market folks... :)

[Rob Luter]

What's your opinion on any of the high end hand made tools? Why should anyone pay extra for Auriou Rasps, Barr Forged Tools, Woodpeckers Precision Tools, Bad Axe saws, Blue Spruce tool works, etc?

I have an Auriou rasp and felt it was worth the investment. I have a drawer full of Nicholsons that don’t work anywhere near as well.

[Rafael Herrera]

If I may be allowed to add my opinion to the discussion. Some of us come from a life where we did not have access to as much wealth as others, maybe later in life we do better, maybe we do rather well. A lot of us keep a frugal attitude even after we have more disposable income. I would consider myself pretty stupid if I were to spend thousands of dollars on a hand plane, even if access to the money wasn't a problem. It'd stupid on my part if I were to spend £50 for a cup of coffee, too (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/apr/11/foodanddrink.consumeraffairs).

Perhaps others are happy to own that one special tool and a few thousands is not an issue, that's fine.

What is not ok is to suggest that these tools are so good that they are needed to make fine furniture. Videos of a furniture making company showing somebody taking a few shavings off of pieces of furniture that have obviously been machine processed doesn't show a correlation between boutique hand planes and high end furniture.



Rafael

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

I on the other hand, live in a country that is poor in woodworking history (and tools). And started committing to building a workshop in the last 3 years. Between prices (usually double what you pay for in America, and unavailability, its been rough.

[Charles Guest]

Availability is still spotty throughout the line is it not? Still lots of unfilled backorders? Tools are being sold in secondary markets as if the company were functionally out of business, and if you don't want to wait a long time then to you it is.

[Rafael Herrera]

I on the other hand, live in a country that is poor in woodworking history (and tools). And started committing to building a workshop in the last 3 years. Between prices (usually double what you pay for in America, and unavailability, its been rough.

My cranky post got edited, we're supposed to be nice.

I don't know how easy trade with the UK, Europe, Japan, China or Australia is for you, the USA is not the only source of old or new tools. Have you tried using mail proxy services? A friend of mine uses a proxy to get tools from Japan, the shipping cost is not outrageous.

If you really want it, whatever it is, I guess you'll just have to pay for it.

[Ivan Skof]

Warren: which plane (model/maker) is optimum (good quality plane iron, good cap iron) ?


The Lie Nielsen planes have lower quality plane irons, vestigial cap irons, and are quite a bit heavier than optimum. All that polishing is not helpful if the result is a plane that is subpar.

[George Yetka]

https://i.postimg.cc/qRfFpcb8/Block3-zpseb1yzo2f.jpg

There are many more. I could never part with them. They all have a story and fond memories.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I dont think they do. But I dont know how it can get better than the DX. I love mine

[Edward Weber]

Any price beyond the MSRP is artificial. it's what people are willing to pay.
Factoring in things like quality, scarcity, collectability, endorsements and emotional attachments, tools can fetch some ludicrous prices. To each his own

[Warren Mickley]

Warren: which plane (model/maker) is optimum (good quality plane iron, good cap iron) ?

Ivan, I use old Stanley/Bailey smoothing planes and beech jack and trying planes. I have been to about a dozen Lie Nielsen tool events, and their planes just don't perform as well as the older planes. I have tried the Lee Valley planes as well, but they are not as nice as the vintage models. I am not up on most of the other planes being made today.

I have been to Slovenia once, but I have no idea what is available to you.

[Ivan Skof]

I have been to Slovenia once, but I have no idea what is available to you.

Warren, thank you for answering. Locally we have mostly some cheap crap available. But we do have available stuff from Europe online shops and Ebay, so basically everything is available, even more if I'm willing to pay expensive shipping and customs.
I don't have any experience with Stanley planes, only LN and LV. I'm looking to buy LN #3 but I'm curious to try(buy) Stanley/Bailey no3 to see the difference. I guess I should be looking for specific version/year when it was made as far as I understand they are not all of the same quality but I don't know which one.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Ivan

Warren has strong views about steel type and the shape of a chipbreaker. I am not about to get into a debate here since it really begins to focus on the last 10th of performance. Can the steel in LN and LV planes be improved? It really depends on what aspect of performance is important. For example, a thin, high carbon steel Stanley blade made in the early 1900s will sharpen up quickly to an excellent edge. That is a big positive. However, an A2 or, especially, a PM-V11 blade will last times longer. That is an important factor for those working with abrasive woods. Pick your priority.

Chipbreaker design? I have yet to read or view any research pitting one design of leading edge (rounded or flat) with each other. I have used (and use) both, and they perform equally. The more important features are the angle of the leading edge (mine are around 75 degrees) and how close you get to the edge (that depends on the depth of cut and the angle of the leading edge).

In turns of weight, Stanley is clearly lighter than LN or LV. Is this better? From a personal perspective, I get along with both. But - and I think that this is the deciding factor - I do not use a smoother all day long. Does a professional do so? I struggle to imagine this being the case, except for some like Warren, who only use hand planes. So it is not as big a deal for me as it is for Warren. There is a history of British workmen (to whom Warren often pays credit for tool design) using heavy planes, such as Spiers, Slater, Mathieson or Norris infills. They also used thick blades. But rounded chipbreakers. Personal preference is the deciding factor?

The LN #3 you plan to purchase is an excellent plane. I have two #3 planes, one is the LN and the other is a Stanley. The LN is used with a PM-V11 blade and modified LN chipbreaker, and the Stanley with a Clifton high carbon blade and modified Veritas chipbreaker. They both work very well, but the LN is a little more reliable and sweeter to adjust, with tighter tolerances.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Bassett]

... but I'm curious to try(buy) Stanley/Bailey no3 to see the difference....

Vintage Stanley planes are well regarded by most people it seems. However the quality seemed to start slipping around WW2 and took a terrible turn in the late 60's or 70's. Opinions vary about a cut off date when they became unacceptable, but I certainly haven't seen a new one I'd bother with. (I don't really pay attention to the type studies, but I'm told the ones I have are late 20's to early 30's and they work well.)

[Rafael Herrera]

The latest Stanley Bailey no. 4s are being made in Mexico. They cost abiut $40 in the USA. I got one, prepped it and it turned out to be a decent plane. The mouth is a little too big, but one just needs to be careful. It weighs 4lbs, vintage no. 4 weigh around 3.5lbs. It feels a bit heavy.

It smooths this oak test piece, no tear outs, smooth finish.
499621

They're an option if you want to try them. I believe there is a no. 3 model, but those may be harder to get.

[Jim Koepke]

Vintage Stanley planes are well regarded by most people it seems. However the quality seemed to start slipping around WW2 and took a terrible turn in the late 60's or 70's. Opinions vary about a cut off date when they became unacceptable, but I certainly haven't seen a new one I'd bother with. (I don't really pay attention to the type studies, but I'm told the ones I have are late 20's to early 30's and they work well.)

Many folks like the Stanley/Bailey planes made between ~1910 to 1932. After that was the ogee frog that some do not like.

My own personal tastes include the low front knob so that ended after 1928 with a raised ring around the base of the knob to keep them from breaking at the base.

jtk