Do you lend out your hand tools? [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Craig Regan

12-02-2016, 5:58 PM

Frederick Skelly

12-02-2016, 6:08 PM

Some folks do. Some dont. Im in the "dont" camp.

One good idea is to keep some beater tools to lend, instead of your good ones. Another approach is to let him work under your "guidance" in your shop. That way you dont have to say no. Or, you could buy him his first tool as a gift and suggest another few he should buy.

Dont loan good tools. You'll regret that and resent him when it happens.

Jim Koepke

12-02-2016, 6:21 PM

In short, the answer is usually no.

The long answer is I do have a bunch of second rate tools I will consider loaning. They are usually tools that will not cause me deep regrets if they do not come back.

You could get a copy of a Lee Valley catalog or even print out a few pages from various web sites to let him see the cost of the tools he wants to borrow. He should also know you can not carve your project if he has hold of your tools. This is an especially bad time of year if you carve projects for gifts. What will happen when he wants to carve his next project?

How many tools does he need? If it is just a few to get started perhaps finding a few, inexpensive used carving tools might be a good gift from you to him. Does he have a way to sharpen them?

My best friend 'borrowed' a screw driver from me once because he didn't want to wait for me to get an allen wrench. Of course he messed up the screw driver's tip. It was a cheap screwdriver, but he never did replace it. He is still a good friend, but he knows I will not loan him a tool again. I will go to where the work is an do it for him in some cases, but I will not loan him a tool that is easily misused.

My final point with people who feel there shouldn't be a problem with loaning out my best tools is to tell them, "to me it would be like loaning out my wife."

jtk

Glen Canaday

12-02-2016, 6:25 PM

When I was last working at the last shop where I used my own tools, I had one simple rule abou borrowing my tools (especially without asking): it was OK as long as I never found out about it.

That means that they did four things:

1. Returned the tool
2. Returned the tool clean
3. Returned the tool unbroken
4. Returned the tool where they found it

If I never found out about it, no harm was done.

Shawn Pixley

12-02-2016, 6:30 PM

I will loan commodity tools (cheap users that I care less about) and some power tools. I will not loan out anthing that I couldn't stand being ruined. I will not loan out tools that are too dangerous for the borrower (Chain saw, etc...).

Oddlty enough, I won't loan most hammers. I spent a lot of time dressing the faces for smithing, I'd rather not do it again.

Malcolm McLeod

12-02-2016, 6:31 PM

I will loan a tool if it can be replaced. Most of my tools are not collector's items, and were given to me by my father when he sold his shop space. Many were given to him. He used them for 50yrs and I plan the same - - and I have little fear that I or the borrower will wear them out.

Depending on the tool, I may make them listen to my spiel about tool care and feeding. A small price to pay.

James Pallas

12-02-2016, 6:47 PM

Always a difficult subject. I don't know how it ever got to the point where the tool owner should feel guilty about not lending tools. For myself I buy tools as I have the need or the urge to try some new project. I have tried new things and not continued on the path and either kept or sold the tools. The person who wants to borrow should go buy their own tools. If they decide not to pursue the task they won't loose much by selling the tool or tools if they bought good stuff to begin with. Don't lend tools be the selfish bad guy looking at your destroyed tool will be worse than the beating you will take for not lending.
Jim

Bill Houghton

12-02-2016, 7:01 PM

I guess I'm lucky: the only people I know who would know what to do with my good tools already have their own.

I did put together a basic toolbelt "kit" for a friend who was part of a sweat equity house build, but that's different; they were excess tools, not "my" tools.

Mike Henderson

12-02-2016, 7:08 PM

I have a friend who is a very good woodworker - in fact, he has taught me quite a number of things. But he didn't know how to carve. He signed up for a class and asked if he could use my tools for the class since I have quite a number of carving tools. I taught him how to sharpen carving tools and lent him the whole set of tools for several months.

After taking the class, he decided that he was not a really good carver and was not gong to pursue it. He returned the tools in good condition. I did a bit of touching up but not much.

But for anyone else, highly unlikely.

Mike

Craig Regan

12-02-2016, 7:29 PM

Thanks for the response. My main concern is with sharpening the carving tools; its possible damage could be done in the hands of a beginer. I think the old beater tools (and a Woodcraft catolog) might be the best idea. If he wants, he can still use mine tools but only under supervision.

Chris Fournier

12-02-2016, 7:35 PM

Under special circumstances I would and by special I mean special people, otherwise never.

Stanley Covington

12-02-2016, 9:07 PM

My lending policy is based on two principles.

1. Never lend anyone anything they might hurt themselves or others with. An example is chisels. A most dangerous tool, perhaps second only to axes. Anyone can hurt themselves badly, and even fatally, with an extremely sharp chisel. They themselves may be careful, but will they leave it laying around where a small child might pick it, run, and trip? This rule applies to circular saws, guns, motor vehicles, and thermo nuclear devices. Of course, I would not hesitate to lend an axe to someone I knew to be trustworthy, and a conscientious and accomplished axeman.

2. Never lend anyone anything that MUST be returned whole and in good condition. If I lend it, I assume it will not be returned at all. Even if it is returned, I assume it will be busted, chipped, and useless. Or it will at least be rusty and dull requiring a lot of work to get back into condition. This mindset makes it possible to lend without resentment and without risking a damaged relationship. If the person's need is great enough, and I can do without the tool entirely, then it would be less than Christian to not lend it.

Regarding borrowing tools, a wise man once said that, if he borrowed an axe from his neighbor, he always returned it on time, cleaned, with the haft oiled, and the blade sharper than when he borrowed it. Anything less is theft, he asserted. People were eager to lend him tools.

steven c newman

12-02-2016, 9:27 PM

Simple answer? NO. But, IF I can come along with the tool.....then it is a "maybe"

Unless it is one of my Grandsons, that I know he knows HOW to use the tools. Might take a while to get a tool back, but, I know where they are....

Patrick Chase

12-02-2016, 9:50 PM

This is sort of a "Dear Abby" post. Just wondering if there is any unwritten rules with lending out handtools? I taught a friend how to carve using my tools. Now he wants to borrow them for a his next project!? I'll lend out a garden hose or shovel but these things are expensive and can be ruined under the wrong hands. Of course, I dont want to be a jerk and say "no"....
Does anyone here lend out tools? I would never ask a skilled craftsman to lend me thier tools but this guy doesnt understand what the big deal is.

Thanks!

Yes, but not my best ones and not to any random schmuck. It also depends on how difficult the tool will be to fix if they mess it up.

I've loaned out my Narex chisels but not my LVs or RIs. I've likewise loaned out my (few) WoodRiver planes and ECE jointer, but not my LVs or LNs.

In the case of carving tools I only have one set (Pfeil) and wouldn't loan those out. In that case it's not so much because of cost but rather the degree of effort that has gone into optimizing each of them. I vary inner/outer bevels from center<->edge as described in Leonard Lee's book, and that would have to be largely redone if somebody banged them up.

Patrick Chase

12-02-2016, 9:53 PM

My final point with people who feel there shouldn't be a problem with loaning out my best tools is to tell them, "to me it would be like loaning out my wife."

Hey, some people are into that (not me, but some)...

Sean Hughto

12-02-2016, 9:54 PM

Awww, hells nawww!

Patrick Chase

12-02-2016, 9:57 PM

You could get a copy of a Lee Valley catalog or even print out a few pages from various web sites to let him see the cost of the tools he wants to borrow. He should also know you can not carve your project if he has hold of your tools. This is an especially bad time of year if you carve projects for gifts. What will happen when he wants to carve his next project?

For me it's not about the money, and I have no doubt that the friends to whom I would loan stuff would (over)pay if I pointed out damage. Even if they do that I'm still out all of the time I spent getting that tool to work for my technique and preferences. That's particularly a concern with carving tools as discussed here.

Jim Koepke

12-03-2016, 1:57 AM

For me it's not about the money, and I have no doubt that the friends to whom I would loan stuff would (over)pay if I pointed out damage. Even if they do that I'm still out all of the time I spent getting that tool to work for my technique and preferences. That's particularly a concern with carving tools as discussed here.

This is a good point. Back before I knew much about such things a coworker said he could sharpen my knife for me. He took it too the grinder and it came back worse than before he 'sharpened' it for me. The time it takes to get a good edge on a tool is often not appreciated by someone who doesn't have to sharpen a tool.

Maybe before allowing someone to borrow a tool hand them a dull tool and tell them to take it home and sharpen it. Them bringing it back sharp could be the first prerequisite before being able to use another tool. If they can't sharpen a tool, it will not be long before they have to use more force with a dull tool and that is when accidents happen.

jtk

Kees Heiden

12-03-2016, 4:26 AM

To the kids I loan almost anything and don't mind to get it back in bad shape. That's part of being a father I guess.

To others: only the beaters and powertools. I don't care about those.

James Pallas

12-03-2016, 7:42 AM

Joe A Faulkner

12-03-2016, 8:38 AM

Really depends on the tool and the person. I think clamps are one of the hardest tools for beginners to invest in in sufficient quantity if they are people of modest means. So for someone who is building their first bookshelf or cabinet or even a cutting board I'd likely loan out clamps, but would only loan edge tools to some one who I know well and trust.

Frederick Skelly

12-03-2016, 8:45 AM

A few years back I refused to lend tools to a relative. There was some discussion about this with my wife. A short time later this sign appeared on my bench. It was hung up immediately over the bench and remains.
Jim

Jim, that's too funny. I have a sign that says exactly the same thing! (Given to me by someone who also wanted to borrow a good tool.)

Joe A Faulkner

12-03-2016, 8:51 AM

This thread reminded me of one of my all time favorite threads here

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?179188-Who-wants-to-try-a-Veritas-Bevel-Up-Smoother&highlight=Plane

glenn bradley

12-03-2016, 8:52 AM

Awww, hells nawww!

Bingo. One of the best ways to mess up a relationship is to loan treasured tools or money. I just say no and I don't apologize for it. I'm not a crusty curmudgeon but, when it comes to my special tools, the answer is no.

A Craftsman circ-saw, a Harbor Freight socket set, sure. My Millers Falls No. 14 from the 1950's, my new Veritas shooting plane or Grandpa's egg-beater drill . . . No way.

Dave Anderson NH

12-03-2016, 9:19 AM

I will lend even my best tools to a select few. I can count those folks on the fingers of one hand. The list does NOT include my son who is rough on things and considers tools a disposable/consumable item. Just a about a year and a half ago I loaned out a complete kit of Windsor chairmakers tools to a member of our woodworking guild who was taking one of the last Mike Dunbar classes. They were returned clean, undamaged, and sharpened.

Kevin Hampshire

12-03-2016, 12:10 PM

Call me selfish but...Absolutely not!

When I was young, my Life support tech insisted you never ever loan out certain things:
Your oxygen mask, spouse, fine tools and any book or petty cash that you really want back.

I like the idea of providing a catalogue with prices marked. Of course, that doesn't even begin to account for all the time invested into preparing and maintaining carving chisels. That's an easy "no" for me.

Dave, You mentioned your son but I'd go even further. I have someone I won't even give Tools to until they "grow up" and take care of things. As my Dad would say, "that kid would ruin an anvil" which may be what you're saying.

Simon MacGowen

12-03-2016, 1:26 PM

Absolutely yes, and my neighbors have borrowed many times from me, except the bulky tools like tablesaw. Tools are not a collection to me and how wrong could they become after use, even by a less-skilled hand. A dull blade can be quickly honed back or a blemished plane restored.

These people I know are reasonable DIYers and know what they are doing. All my Veritas tools are returned in pretty much the same conditions as they were. I bring my tools to classes I teach and let the students use freely. After more than 15 years of loaning tools, I lose no sleep over what would happen if my loaned dovetail saw is damaged or if my rabbet plane is dropped. Touch wood, they have never happened.

Simon

Stew Denton

12-03-2016, 10:44 PM

Hi All,

This is a tough one for me. I don't have an answer that I am satisfied with. I have loaned tools and have been burned more than once in the past. I think I will still lend, but will be more careful to ask questions and explain safe techniques, correct handling, etc. In some cases, I might just ask if I could just do the repair with the borrower, or for them.

Maybe I need to set up some "loaners." Good enough tools, but ones that won't be a painful loss if ruined. An example of a painful loss would be my dads 605 Bedrock plane that I have spent bunches of hours restoring, and very much want to leave to my son in law to be eventually passed on to one of the grandkids, or one of my few tools that were my grandfathers....again I intend to pass them on to a grandsons or son in laws.

I think it is more important to care about the person than the tool, but at the same time it is important to use discernment.

Stew

Brian Holcombe

12-03-2016, 11:20 PM

Depends, there are a few people who I would honored to loan a tool to.

Chuck Hart

12-04-2016, 4:28 AM

There are very few people I know that I would trust with a good tool. So my answer would be no. On occasion I have loaned a tool to someone I know who knows how to use and borrow a tool. Return it the way you got it. I would never borrow tools.

Jim Ritter

12-04-2016, 9:47 AM

For me it depends. It depends on two things, the person and the tool. I make my living with my tools so if something is out of service due to a loan or damage my life could be more difficult. That said I would lend a common tool that is easily replaced to almost anyone, most other tools to only close friends that I know will treat the tool properly. Only a handful of tools I would almost never lend. That said I have a couple of friends that have compete access to my shop at any time and I there's. Early in my woodworking life people lent me tools and knowledge freely and I try to do the same. The forums are a decent outlet to share knowledge, but if anyone stops in my shop with questions I will take the time to answer or demonstrate. As many tools as I have there are still some I don't have and may only need but once a year or less, hence a friendship with other craftsmen with mutual respect.
Jim

Bill White

12-04-2016, 10:53 AM

I have borrowed on rare occasions, and have made an extreme point of returning the tool(s) in better shape than when borrowed. I would clean, sharpen, tune, etc.
That being posted, I am VERY selective when asked to loan a tool.
Bill

Rich Riddle

12-04-2016, 5:00 PM

I keep a set of marginal tools just in case one needs to borrow tools. I let a person use a good Japanese chisel at my house the other day and now need to repair it for nail damage. He was very apologetic. Every time I deviate from the not lending nice tool policy, it bites me. This incident does offer the opportunity to get out the new Tormek that wasn't going to be opened until Christmas.....

Bill Jobe

12-04-2016, 6:39 PM

You know, depending on the person asking I perhaps might, that is, if I could find the tool he requested.

paul cottingham

12-04-2016, 6:49 PM

I have two friends who lends me tools without hesitation and to whom I lend tools without hesitation. One is a professional woodworker and carpenter, the other is not. The non professional has MS and terrible tremors; I own all his saws now, so he can't damage any tool he borrows, but you know, he is a damn good friend, and a tool is not more important than a friendship. If he destroyed a tool of mine, I would be fine with that. Besides, he would replace it, but even if he didn't, who cares, it's just a tool.

george wilson

12-05-2016, 8:52 AM

I loan tools to Jon,my journeyman when we were toolmakers. We worked together for many years,and he knows how to take care of things. The last time I loaned out a tool to another person was a lipped adze. Sharp as a razor. The HEAD of the furniture conservation shop borrowed it. I got it back dulled from use,and with sap and other crud all over the cutting edge. I really had thought that a 100% bonafide "museum weenie" would give me back the adze in the same condition as when he borrowed it. A lipped adze is more trouble to resharpen than a plain one,due to the bent up corners of the cutting edge. Oh,another guy borrowed my $50.00 piano wire nippers and broke off half of a jaw. Pulling nails with it!! He got to keep those nippers!! At least,the museum paid for those nippers as they belonged to the shop.

john zulu

12-05-2016, 9:58 AM

I have 2 types of tools. Not replaceable and cheaper tools. I don't mind lending tools that are cheaper or repairable. LN and Veritas are not replaceable in my book as I stay in Asia.
Some of the power tools I don't lend out as it can be damage due to operator error.

Pete Taran

12-05-2016, 10:45 AM

I don't have any local friends that would ask to use any of my old tools, but I do have quite a few other tools which are electric or air powered. Everyone in the neighborhood knows about my handy nature, and requests are frequent. When someone asks, I always tell them the same thing. I'd be happy to loan you my tool, but if it comes back in any condition other than the one it left it, do you have the money to replace it? Usually the answer is no, because they wouldn't be asking in the first place if so, they just would buy one for themselves. There are a few neighbors who say yes, they do, and have never had to test the rule. It's a pretty straightforward concept, and it's not personal. It gets the message across without causing hard feelings. Worth a try for those who can't say no. :)

Prashun Patel

12-05-2016, 10:57 AM

I'd loan mine to someone with higher standards than mine. I have done that on occasion, and the tools have come back in BETTER condition when I've loaned them.

I've had a few Creekers offer me to SEND me their tools to use. I'm similarly happy to take a chance and share the wealth with people I trust.

Andrew Pitonyak

12-06-2016, 10:27 AM

Neighbor: Hey Andy, can I borrow your chain saw?

Me: Have you ever used a chain saw?

Neighbor: No

Me: You can borrow me with my chain saw

I do loan my tools, but I try to keep my friends and neighbors safe. Some people can borrow the good tools, some can't. If it is family and the wife objects to a "no" answer, just tell her the cost and explain that a replacement might be purchased in the near future.

Al Launier

12-06-2016, 10:57 AM

Usually not - only if I feel really confident that he/she really knows how to use these tools & intends to return them promptly so I don't have to chase them down to get the tools back. I've loaned out tools that have taken far too long to return, even after inquiring of several neighbors that I might have loaned them too (forgot who I might have loaned them to) only to have one person suddenly call a year later to say he ran across a tool that didn't look like his & asked if I had loaned it to him? This was after I bought a replacement - my bad. I've even had people who moved away that I believe still had a tool. Again, my bad.

John K Jordan

12-06-2016, 11:07 AM

For me it depends. It depends on two things, the person and the tool.

When I started reading this thread that was my exact thought.

When nearly anyone wants to borrow something to do a task, I usually offer to bring the tools and do it for them. Besides shop tools, that includes the tractor, bobcat, and the chainsaws, three things to never, ever loan.

JKJ

Pat Barry

12-06-2016, 12:35 PM

Neighbor: Hey Andy, can I borrow your chain saw?

Me: Have you ever used a chain saw?

Neighbor: No

Me: You can borrow me with my chain saw

I do loan my tools, but I try to keep my friends and neighbors safe.
Maybe you should just pass on the manufacturers safety instructions to the lendee. That's all they will get if they buy the chainsaw at HD or their local hardware store.

Jim Koepke

12-06-2016, 12:45 PM

Maybe you should just pass on the manufacturers safety instructions to the lendee. That's all they will get if they buy the chainsaw at HD or their local hardware store.

Does everyone religiously read the instructions?

My chain saw was bought at a local store, of which there are a few, who specialize in the logging and rigging trades. I was given a short course on safety and use. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have such resources in their areas. The local chain stores tend to not carry larger size chainsaws nor do they employ people who are knowledgable about many of the products they sell.

jtk

Andrey Kharitonkin

12-06-2016, 1:54 PM

I would loan tools if it would help the one that gets them to become better at something using them. If it would help to improve oneself to be a better self. That usually justifies the cost in my view. I always help in that case even at my own expense to some bearable limit. In other words, loaning is not a goal, it is means to, but there should be a good goal.

I would say loan those carving tools, the best of them, and perhaps spend some time showing how to use them. That is of course if he or she is willing to learn and gives enough attention to learning.

Otherwise, it is like giving a chisel to someone who needs a screwdriver.

Pat Barry

12-06-2016, 2:01 PM

Does everyone religiously read the instructions?

My chain saw was bought at a local store, of which there are a few, who specialize in the logging and rigging trades. I was given a short course on safety and use. Not everyone if fortunate enough to have such resources in their areas. The local chain stores .... nor do they employ people who are knowledgable about many of the products they sell.

jtk
Exactly my point Jim.

Jim Koepke

12-06-2016, 4:52 PM

Exactly my point Jim.

I would feel responsible if they injured themself or created property damage after handing them my chainsaw and instruction booklet. Fortunately in my case most of my neighbors have their own chainsaw(s).

jtk

Andrew Pitonyak

12-08-2016, 1:12 PM

I would feel responsible if they injured themself or created property damage after handing them my chainsaw and instruction booklet. Fortunately in my case most of my neighbors have their own chainsaw(s).

A friend of mine once told me that his neighbors never really appreciated living nextdoor to a "redneck" until a tree fell down in their yard and went through their front window in the middle of the night. Something about a chainsaw, a truck, a strong back, and a little know how had the neighbor patched up in the morning.....

Tom Vanzant

12-09-2016, 11:14 AM

On the very rare occasion that I lend a tool, I come with it! I know how the tool works, and any damage to the tool is my fault. That can easily save a friendship.

Daniel Rode

12-12-2016, 1:49 PM

I don't often borrow or loan tools. If I borrow a tool I return it in at least the same condition; better if possible. That means I will return it clean, sharp, lubricated, etc. If it breaks, I will repair or replace it. More often than not, I find it's better to buy or rent a tool.

I expect the same treatment if I loan a tool but the borrowers do not seem to share this sense of responsibility.

My wife loaned a RO sander to our new next door neighbors. After a couple of phone call requesting it (after a month), it was returned back utterly destroyed. Not a word. I replaced the pad so it sort of works but there's more damage that will eventually lead to it's untimely death. So, I'm out another $100 to replace a tool that should have lasted 20 years or more. It doesn't get much use but when I need it, I need it :(

The upside is that I know my neighbors, while friendly, cannot be trusted.

This is why I don't load tools. The result most often is ruined tools and ruined relationships.

Brian Henderson

12-12-2016, 3:07 PM

I rarely loan anything out, after having some bad experiences never getting things back. If you'd like me to come and help you and bring some tools, fine. I get to use them. You get to clean up. My uncle borrowed my RAS close to 20 years ago, he still has it sitting in his garage. Granted, I don't really care if I get it back or not because I find RAS generally useless, but it's the principle of the thing.

Simon MacGowen

12-12-2016, 6:27 PM

The upside is that I know my neighbors, while friendly, cannot be trusted.

This is why I don't load tools. The result most often is ruined tools and ruined relationships.

Sorry about your bad experience. I loan tools often and never have come close to your experience. May be I am just lucky, but neighbors who break borrowed things and never say a word or make a gesture are not friendly in my books and certainly not trustworthy as you said. One time, my neighbor borrowed my ROS and returned it with a new pack of sandpapers (even I still have tons of them, not to his knowledge).

It has never happened, but if someone borrowed a saw from me and damaged it AND said nothing, I would knock on his door the next morning and told him if he would share the repair/replacement cost. His answer would tell me what kind of person he is and if I would ever want to deal with him -- on anything.

If he returned a damaged tool and apologized for it, even if he offered to replace it, I would say no (after all I have several saws).

Again, none of the above has happened to me and I have always been happy to loan anything that one can find in my shop -- tailed or tail-less.

Simon

Brent Cutshall

12-12-2016, 8:26 PM

Two words, NOPE! Too many bad experiences.

Andrew Hughes

12-12-2016, 10:24 PM

I only loan out my left handed tools since in right handed.:)

bridger berdel

12-13-2016, 12:42 AM

The corollary to lending policy is borrowing policy.

My borrowing policy is that if I need to borrow (or rent) a tool 3 times in a year I need to own it.

Pete Taran

12-13-2016, 2:33 PM

Bridger,

That's my view. If I take on a project and don't have a tool that I need, it's an opportunity to buy a new tool! I've got a lot of stuff I only rarely use, like a transit with laser plummet, but if I ever need it, I have it ready to go!

Daniel Rode

12-13-2016, 3:27 PM

Pete,

Since you are close by, if I need a laser transit, I know who to call :)

Pat Barry

12-13-2016, 4:56 PM

This is sort of a "Dear Abby" post. Just wondering if there is any unwritten rules with lending out handtools? I taught a friend how to carve using my tools. Now he wants to borrow them for a his next project!? I'll lend out a garden hose or shovel but these things are expensive and can be ruined under the wrong hands. Of course, I dont want to be a jerk and say "no"....
Does anyone here lend out tools? I would never ask a skilled craftsman to lend me thier tools but this guy doesnt understand what the big deal is.

Thanks!
Yes - I do and will lend out my tools. I don't feel like they are anything more than tools and, I figure, if they are of use to someone, they can use them. Of course, I'm sometimes holding my breath that they don't get ruined. More often than not its the subsequent return of the tool that slips the borrowers mind and they need a gentle reminder. I really don't see why people are so dead set against loaning a tool to someone in need. Lets say your neighbor is installing a door and needs to shave a bit off to get it to fit on a Sunday afternoon. Are you not going to lend him a block plane or other small handplane so he can get the job done? You don't have to give him your treasured LN #4 for example, but a useable and suitable tool? Are you really going to make such a fuss as to insist on doing it for him? Seriously I find that attitude ludicrous and am thankful none of those sorts are my neighbors.

Jim Koepke

12-13-2016, 5:17 PM

Yes - I do and will lend out my tools. I don't feel like they are anything more than tools and, I figure, if they are of use to someone, they can use them. Of course, I'm sometimes holding my breath that they don't get ruined. More often than not its the subsequent return of the tool that slips the borrowers mind and they need a gentle reminder. I really don't see why people are so dead set against loaning a tool to someone in need. Lets say your neighbor is installing a door and needs to shave a bit off to get it to fit on a Sunday afternoon. Are you not going to lend him a block plane or other small handplane so he can get the job done? You don't have to give him your treasured LN #4 for example, but a useable and suitable tool? Are you really going to make such a fuss as to insist on doing it for him? Seriously I find that attitude ludicrous and am thankful none of those sorts are my neighbors.

Obviously you haven't worked with a lot of engineers. I have seen them use a paper cutter to cut circuit boards. They feel they were rather smart about it and didn't care that it totally ruined the paper cutter. I worked with one who thought he was creative using an expensive die tool as a hammer because he didn't bother to take the time to find the hammer hanging on the wall.

There are many members here who subscribe to the minimalist philosophy of not having extra tools in their shop. If they have only top of the line tools, I wouldn't expect to borrow one without a bit of hesitation on their part. My philosophy is not of the minimalist. If anything there are spares of almost everything in my shop. There are even loaners for the occasion someone might want to borrow a tool. These are mostly good performers that are not as well tuned as my main users.

If someone were to come to me to borrow a tool, I would do something learned from one of the guys at my favorite auto parts store. He greets customers with a question, "What are you working on today?"

If a neighbor asks me for a chisel, I want to know if he is trying to work on wood, trying to break a chain or removing mortar from some bricks. It would not be a good feeling if he came back with a broken chisel and a patch over one eye telling me my chisel was no good because it shattered when he was using it as a pry bar. I have seen friends try to use a wood chisel as such, on metal no less, while insisting it was okay.

jtk

Stewie Simpson

12-13-2016, 6:20 PM

Tell them to buy their own tools and _____ off. :D

Pat Barry

12-13-2016, 7:49 PM

Obviously you haven't worked with a lot of engineers. I have seen them use a paper cutter to cut circuit boards. They feel they were rather smart about it and didn't care that it totally ruined the paper cutter. I worked with one who thought he was creative using an expensive die tool as a hammer because he didn't bother to take the time to find the hammer hanging on the wall.jtk
Sorry Jim, all I work with is engineers and I have never met, in 30 + years anyone like you describe. You are probably referring to some 'train' engineers - not real engineers. You know, folks like the ones that ran your trolleys.

Pat Barry

12-13-2016, 7:50 PM

There are many members here who subscribe to the minimalist philosophy of not having extra tools in their shop. jtk
This is laughable. Thanks Jim, I needed a chuckle

Jim Koepke

12-13-2016, 8:32 PM

Sorry Jim, all I work with is engineers and I have never met, in 30 + years anyone like you describe. You are probably referring to some 'train' engineers - not real engineers. You know, folks like the ones that ran your trolleys.

No Pat, on my last job the train drivers were referred to as 'Train Operators' or TOs.

The engineers with whom I worked before were actual degreed/credentialed electronics and mechanical engineers. They had vast knowledge in some areas but very little practical knowledge or what some might consider common sense. This often happens when a person embarks on a single minded pursuit of a specialized discipline without taking time to take in other parts of life.

There actually were some engineer in my experience who did have a background in doing the 'grunt' work. They usually knew better than to use a screwdriver as a crow bar.

This is laughable. Thanks Jim, I needed a chuckle

There are a few members here who have mentioned having a small shop and not wanting or feeling a need for anything extra. When the subject of chisels is brought up there are always some who say, "only buy the sizes you need." Not me, my philosophy is to buy all that come my way if they are of a good quality.

Even the Schwarz has written of lightening his tool box to what is minimally needed.

So chuckle if you like Pat, you are only indicating you lack understanding of life outside your own experience.

jtk

paul cottingham

12-13-2016, 10:58 PM

There are a few members here who have mentioned having a small shop and not wanting or feeling a need for anything extra. When the subject of chisels is brought up there are always some who say, "only buy the sizes you need." Not me, my philosophy is to buy all that come my way if they are of a good quality.

Even the Schwarz has written of lightening his tool box to what is minimally needed.

So chuckle if you like Pat, you are only indicating you lack understanding of life outside your own experience.

jtk

Yeah, I'm one of them. I only buy, and keep the tools I need.

Jim Koepke

12-14-2016, 1:50 AM

Yeah, I'm one of them. I only buy, and keep the tools I need.

Thanks Paul, I can fully understand and appreciate this philosophy or way of living. I blame my father for giving me a pack rat gene so my way is different. I do not suffer from having too much accumulation of oddities, I enjoy every minute of it. :D

jtk

paul cottingham

12-14-2016, 2:42 AM

Jim, strangely enough, my wife would laugh her butt off if she saw this thread. She regularly accuses me of being a pack rat, largely because I don't think she realizes that a person with "only" five chisels (albeit all very high quality ones) and "only" four joinery saws (again high quality) isn't a pack rat. All my hand saws were made before my dad was born (1923.) Same with planes. I have the a smoother, a jointer, a jack a plow a couple of shoulder planes and a couple of router planes. Bought over a 15 year period (those were new.) Almost all my marking gauges are ancient.

It isn't just some noble thing. It's necessity, borne of my head injury, and subsequent existence on a pension, but I suspect I wouldn't be much different, frankly. I don't like debt.

She also thinks I'm a pack rat because I collect books. I was on a path to be an academic before my head injury derailed me. Books are not a pack rat thing!

its funny, when my dad sold our farm, he kept a fire burning for about a week to get rid of all the detritus he had gathered over the years.

William Fretwell

12-14-2016, 9:09 AM

If I consider the person asking is skilled I would lend them anything but that never happens as they have their own tools. I've lent out clamps to someone making a table. My son borrows things and I fix them after. Edge tools requiring skilled sharpening never! So generally no!
I would lend power tools if the risk of serious injury is low.

Jim Koepke

12-14-2016, 11:48 AM

Howdy William and welcome to the Creek. My curiosity always makes me wonder were folks are from. Your profile doesn't have your location filled in, so where on this planet do you call home?

jtk

Jim Koepke

12-14-2016, 12:46 PM

Books are not a pack rat thing!

One of the first things made in my journey through woodworking was bookshelves to hold my library. Had to make more for Candy's library. Still need to make more.

Pretty soon we might need a cabinet to house a card catalog.

jtk

Daniel Rode

12-15-2016, 9:01 AM

They had vast knowledge in some areas but very little practical knowledge or what some might consider common sense.

This is not unique to engineers. Software Development is filled with just such people. Brilliant, but sometimes lacking in practical knowledge.

Jim Koepke

12-15-2016, 1:33 PM

This is not unique to engineers. Software Development is filled with just such people. Brilliant, but sometimes lacking in practical knowledge.

Don't get me started on "programers." It amazes me how much is not or can not be done by the computer systems in use in many places of business.

One example is our billing for natural gas. Candy, my wife, was having trouble paying through their website. While talking to the service center about this the person on the other end of the line mentioned, "oh you need to put a zero in before entering your account number. All the account numbers start with a zero that isn't printed on your bill and no mention is made of this on the web site." Someone somewhere has their head stuck up a place where the sun don't shine. If this was my only example, it would be an exception. Believe me, as one who has a degree in microprocessor technology, it amazes me how negligent to real needs some software developers can be.

jtk

paul cottingham

12-15-2016, 1:43 PM

Steve H Graham

12-27-2016, 3:31 PM

A person who doesn't understand why you don't want to lend tools is EXACTLY the kind of person who will keep them or screw them up.

Osvaldo Cristo

12-27-2016, 6:02 PM

I balance the the tool replacement against the cost to say NO. Usually it means I will not borrow any of my main tools, perhaps some of the few spares (older or second line) I have. Basically I assume when borrow anything I am giving up it... if it returns, it is a plus!

It is the same for my books and records (yes, I have some hundreds of old vinyls).

Dave Lehnert

12-27-2016, 9:35 PM

Have this hanging on my shop door.
350232

Jim Koepke

12-27-2016, 10:24 PM

Quick aside about programmers. True story. I walked into a room where I could hear a bunch of swearing that another student told me had been going on for a fair while. The programmer in question had been literally pounding on the machine with his fists, "cause it wouldn't turn on."

Wait it for it.

The monitor was off.

I seriously wish I was making this up.

Back in the early days of personal computers I worked in a shop that sold KayPro portable computers among a few others. The thing was portable but about as big as a medium suitcase.

We had a lot of returns because of the way the sales people demonstrated the computer. They would plug it in and flip the switch on the back in one move. They never mentioned the switch to the customer. When the customer took it home and plugged it in, it wouldn't work... Back came the computer. One customer came back multiple times until one of the service techs helped the customer.

We had a chat with the sales people to make sure they told customers about the power switch after that.

jtk

Dan Barr

12-27-2016, 11:10 PM

It all depends... Who is borrowing, skill level with each tool, what purpose, relationship with that person, duration, character, etc. I have very few friends I would loan my nice tools to. I am blunt to those I have loaned to. I let them know up front replacement cost, how/how not to handle, time period, safety, etc. after they ask, few borrow. Nothing personal, just reality. Relatives; probably not, really good friend with experience and candor, yup.

Dan