Festool Pro 5 sander

[kevin nee]

Hello, I got my Festool Pro 5 $99 Sander. I could not believe it came with no dust bag. I will have to order one $30. My plan is to use the $50 coupon and jump into the Dominio world. Probably the 500. My question is what size vac will I need to work with the Dominio? Are there any alternatives to the Festool Dust Extractors? I thought Woodturning was expensive, but this Festool world is scary. Is it worth it?
Looking forward to your comments, Kevin

[Jim Finn]

I have this sander and I like it. I thought the only dust bag available for this sander is a paper, disposable one. Is that still true?

[James Zhu]

Any Festool dust extractor will work with domino. You can use shop vac for your domino, not necessary Festool dust extractor. Festool dust extractor has auto-on which means you turn on/off the domino, the dust extractor will be turned on/off automatically, besides it has HEPA filter (0.3 micron). And it is a lot quieter than the shop vac.

Festool product is not cheap. Pro 5 sander is a promotional product, that is why you can get it at $99, terrific value. You are the exact customer (never owned any Festool product before) Festool wants by offering Pro 5 sander at a steep discount.

Festool definitely makes quality product, and I would say domino is a true game changer. You definitely need dust collection for both sander and domino. I would definitely recommend Festool dust extractor or a shop vac with HEPA filter for the sander, cause sanding generates lots of fine dust. With Festool dust extractor, you can literally sand in your bedroom and do not have to worry about dust all over the room, cause the dust extractor pretty much captures all the dust, maybe just a tiny trace of dust left on the table when you sand close to the edge of the board.

It is a slippery slope once you buy the first Festool product :)

[Hoang N Nguyen]

Not all Festool sanders come with a dust bag. My $500 Festool sander didn't come with one, even if it did I wouldn't use it.

If you intend to get the domino, dust extraction is a most have or else you run the chance to breaking the bits more easily.

[Ben Rivel]

Just FYI if you go the Festool vac route the CT 26, 36, and 48 all use the same motor.

Also most Festool owners already have one of their vacs, so the dust bags are useless. I would never use one. I use my tools connected to a vac every time.

[Victor Robinson]

Is it worth it? I think it's very easy to be sucked into the Festool world. Many here will attest to that. IMHO, it is the mobile craftsman who stands the most to gain from a very complete kit of Festools. For the rest of us, the appeal and the worth depends on the value you place on Festool's engineering and solutions. Long story short, evaluate each tool on its own merit, what it will give you vs. what you're spending, and take a careful look at the alternatives, if any. It becomes very easy to be sucked down the Festool rabbit hole and buy Festools just because they're Festools, and suddenly a hobbyist who would have done fine with one or two RO sanders has spent $2,000+ for seven of them, as if they were a professional painter. I'm not saying that's wrong; if it brings someone joy that's all that matters. But if you can guard against the "collect 'em all!" allure, your wallet will probably thank you and you might have money leftover for wood. DAMHIKT.

As far as vacs, the previous generation of Fein vacuums (the round ones) used to have a comparable feature set to the Festools (variable suction, HEPA, low noise, tool-triggered start). However, the new Fein vacs are no longer made in Germany and have eliminated the variable suction. Hands-down they seem to be a downgrade in terms of features and reliability. So if you're looking for a quiet, tool-triggered HEPA vac, Festool is really your best bet. There are a few other brands that make similar vacs, e.g. Nilfisk, but there is less information or experience easily available on those.

[Dave Haughs]

As said above and I believe even said by Festool is that you must have a vacuum for the Domino. I've used mine without it on occasion when the hose was in the way and it will plug up fast.

That said though, you don't NEED a Festool vacuum. I have the CT26 and I have had the Midi. I would not go smaller than the CT26 for tools other than sanders. They just fill up too fast. That said, I got along well with a standard shop vac for quite some time before spending $500 on a vacuum.

With a standard vacuum you won't get the auto on. But the real downside is the variability of suction. That small 5" sander doesn't like a lot of suction. The suction and sanding friction over power the little sander. At least it does on my ETS125. To get around that when I was using a non variable speed vacuum I put "bleed" holes in the hose. When I needed full suction I would cover them with tape or a slip fitting. It's not ideal and it's far noisier than a nice Fein or Festool variable speed vacuum, but it allows you to put your money elsewhere and still enjoy the tool. For $40 you can get the Dust Right Universal Small Port hose from Rockler that works really well. Hook that to your <$100 shop vac and you're in business.

I do love my Festool dust extractor but there are options and those options work just as well, they just lack some of the convenience.

[John K Jordan]

...IMHO, it is the mobile craftsman who stands the most to gain from a very complete kit of Festools...

I can believe that. I have a friend in northern Italy who meets that description - he's quite a craftsman, hauls everything to the job site. For him it is "Festool, only Festool!" I've never seen so many Festools, some specialized that I've never heard. He likes the quality and the ease stacking the systainers together to transport. He said he buys them only when on sale - do Festools ever go on sale in the US?

[Russ Ellis]

I have this sander and I like it. I thought the only dust bag available for this sander is a paper, disposable one. Is that still true?

Not exactly. I'm fairly certain this will fit on the Pro 5 since the dust connections are the same. I'm not sure about the current ETS 125.
https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tool-accessories/sanders/abrasives/rts-400-abrasives/longlife-dust-bag-for-rts-400-req-and-dts-400-req-201693

[Jim Becker]

John, there are occasional sales of refurb, etc., but Festool limits discounting otherwise to keep the playing field with resellers even and based on customer service. (Why I buy from Bob Marino (http://bobmarinosbesttools.com)) I am an admitted Festool fan and tool user. I don't regret any Festool machine I have in my arsenal at this point. (I did buy a detail sander a number of years ago and found it wasn't really useful ... for what I do ... and resold it for almost what I paid for it) This stuff holds up, too. The only maintenance I've had over the years were a few replacement hook and loop pads for my 150/3 sander (normal for any sander) and I upgraded the batteries on my drill/driver to higher capacity LiON batteries when the original NiCad batteries got to "end of life".
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OP, you do want a vac. While Festools extractors are ideal, they are not required. Some folks have already stated the benefits. You can use alternative higher end products like Fein or opt for relatively inexpensive "shop vac" type units with the down side being much higher noise level and generally less control over air flow. Since you're going towards a Domino, remember that you can generally get a "package price" for a tool and an extractor from the Festool reseller that sweetens the deal a little. I happen to like my CT-22 (older Festool extractor) and only use it for tools. Any cleanup work is done with a sub-$100 Ridgid shop vac. Why? I don't want to pay for the Festool bags for cleanup debris. :)

[Mike Henderson]

I'm one of those people who went with a shop vac. I bought a Ridgid that's fairly quiet and added one of those devices that turns it on when you turn on your tool - I forgot the brand and I'm not home right now. I also added a "router speed control" device that controls the speed of any universal motor.

With that, the vac turns on when I turn the tool on, and I can control the amount of air flow. The total price was quite reasonable.

I agree that you should use dust collection on the Domino.

Mike

[Victor Robinson]

I'm one of those people who went with a shop vac. I bought a Ridgid that's fairly quiet and added one of those devices that turns it on when you turn on your tool - I forgot the brand and I'm not home right now. I also added a "router speed control" device that controls the speed of any universal motor.

With that, the vac turns on when I turn the tool on, and I can control the amount of air flow. The total price was quite reasonable.

I agree that you should use dust collection on the Domino.

Mike

Mike that's really interesting about controlling flow with a router speed control. Perhaps also another way to quiet those louder cheaper vacs in addition to the muzzle when you don't need full flow. Wonder if it harms the motor, but at the price some of those things are sold at, you could buy 10 of them before touching the Festool/Fein on price.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike that's really interesting about controlling flow with a router speed control. Perhaps also another way to quiet those louder cheaper vacs in addition to the muzzle when you don't need full flow. Wonder if it harms the motor, but at the price some of those things are sold at, you could buy 10 of them before touching the Festool/Fein on price.
Those speed control devices are made for universal motors and have been used for many, many years. If there was a problem where they damaged the motor, we'd have heard about it by now.
Second data point: I've been running my vac for years that way and it works just fine.

Look at this page (http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/mikes_projects07.htm), part way down. I have a picture of my setup.

Mike

[Jack Lemley]

Worth the money? In my opinion yes. I have the Domino 500, Pro 5 sander, RO90 sander, RO125 sander, CT 22 with boom arm, vav sys, TS 55 saw, HKC contractor saw, and various Festool rails among many other tools. Woodworking is my only hobby and I enjoy using quality tools. If you are buying a Domino 500 (serious game changer as someone else has said) then you can gt a 10% discount by buying the Domino and CT vac at the same time. I have bought most of my Festool stuff through Toolnut over the years, great service, free shipping and no sales tax. You might also look at the Fein Turbo vac. It has the auto tool switch and runs about $399 I think (sometimes on sale unlike Festool). I have one dedicated to my Bosch 10" Gluide saw. Quiet and efficient.

Jack


Hello, I got my Festool Pro 5 $99 Sander. I could not believe it came with no dust bag. I will have to order one $30. My plan is to use the $50 coupon and jump into the Dominio world. Probably the 500. My question is what size vac will I need to work with the Dominio? Are there any alternatives to the Festool Dust Extractors? I thought Woodturning was expensive, but this Festool world is scary. Is it worth it?
Looking forward to your comments, Kevin

[Cliff Polubinsky]

I have the Fein Turbo I. It has a mode that will turn the vac on and off with the tool. And the hose has a variable opening near the end to adjust the amount of vacuum. I use it with all my sanders, Domino, band saw and it even works fine with my Performax 16-32. More expensive than some shop vacs but much quieter.

Cliff

[Van Huskey]

Those speed control devices are made for universal motors and have been used for many, many years. If there was a problem where they damaged the motor, we'd have heard about it by now.
Second data point: I've been running my vac for years that way and it works just fine.

Look at this page (http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/mikes_projects07.htm), part way down. I have a picture of my setup.

Mike

Zero issues electrically but there is the potential heat dissipation issue with VERY extended runs time, something you would never see with a router but just MIGHT with a vac, this of course is due to the fan being sized and shaped for full rpm, that said I wouldn't think twice about doing it keeping in mind not to run it for hours at a time non-stop.


To the OP, as stated there is no magic to the Festool vacs, the move air like the rest of them. You indeed do need to use a vac with a Domino, not a suggestion but an absolute for ship removal, unless you like replacing bits.

Even though they aren't magic the Festool extractors do have a lot of benefits some of which are available in other brands.

Very quiet
Auto on off
Variable suction (mainly useful with sanders)
Full unit HEPA certifications (a big one in my book)
Systainers stack on them or the CT SYS which is in a Systainer
A cornucopia of accessories and add ons that can make life easier
high quality hoses that if you use mostly Festool tools connect without the need of a bunch of adaptors and jury rigging

My opinion is if budget allows buy a Festool DE you will likely never regret it and buying with a tool gets that small but useful discount. Also I suggest getting the Domino assortment, while it looks overpriced at first glance it is actually a very good deal that is hard to come by with Festool.

[Mike Henderson]

One thing that helps with a fan (which a vacuum is) is that the power consumed by the motor goes up by a power factor as the speed of the fan increases. I'd have to check sources, but my memory is that the power is 3. So if you cut the speed by two, the power drawn by the motor goes down a significant amount. And when you reduce the power drawn by the motor, the heat goes down significantly.

If I'm right about the power factor being 3, the watts consumed would go up by 8 when you doubled the RPMs. But even if the factor is 2, the watts consumed would increase by 4 if you doubled the RPMs. And watts in is directly related to heat.

There are some really good motor people on the forum so I hope one of them will chime in with the correct information.

Mike

[Here's (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/fan-rpm-vs-power-consumption.788965/)a web page that discusses it.]

[Van Huskey]

One thing that helps with a fan (which a vacuum is) is that the power consumed by the motor goes up by a power factor as the speed of the fan increases. I'd have to check sources, but my memory is that the power is 3. So if you cut the speed by two, the power drawn by the motor goes down a significant amount. And when you reduce the power drawn by the motor, the heat goes down significantly.

If I'm right about the power factor being 3, the watts consumed would go up by 8 when you doubled the RPMs. But even if the factor is 2, the watts consumed would increase by 4 if you doubled the RPMs. And watts in is directly related to heat.

There are some really good motor people on the forum so I hope one of them will chime in with the correct information.

Mike

You are correct that need for heat dissipation drops dramatically at lower rpms BUT the fan efficiency (for a motor designed for a fixed speed) usually drops much faster. The blade size and pitch is designed for a certain rpm and for a universal vac motor the speed is HIGH. Again, it would only be an issue if the vac was run for very long periods of time, far longer than most home shop situations would call for, but I think it is a fair caveat to keep in mind but it may be a more hypothetical vs practical concern, but thermal management is not a strong point for universal motors to begin with, which is why you almost never see a TEFC universal motor.

[Mike Henderson]

You are correct that need for heat dissipation drops dramatically at lower rpms BUT the fan efficiency (for a motor designed for a fixed speed) usually drops much faster. The blade size and pitch is designed for a certain rpm and for a universal vac motor the speed is HIGH. Again, it would only be an issue if the vac was run for very long periods of time, far longer than most home shop situations would call for, but I think it is a fair caveat to keep in mind but it may be a more hypothetical vs practical concern, but thermal management is not a strong point for universal motors to begin with, which is why you almost never see a TEFC universal motor.

Again, I'm going from memory, but I think the efficiency of universal motors is fairly constant over a wide RPM range. Not that it doesn't drop but the drop is not precipitous.

I'm not a motor guy and there are some people on the forum who are - I hope they'll chime in.

Mike

[Van Huskey]

Again, I'm going from memory, but I think the efficiency of universal motors is fairly constant over a wide RPM range. Not that it doesn't drop but the drop is not precipitous.

I'm not a motor guy and there are some people on the forum who are - I hope they'll chime in.

Mike

I am not suggesting the efficiency will drop significantly (at least in the rpm range I suspect we are discussing) nor am I suggesting the amount of heat from the motor will not reduce significantly, what I am suggesting is the amount of airflow from the motors fan may well drop at a faster rate than the heat produced. The blade size, shape and pitch will be optimized for full rpm. Again, this is hypothetical and may have little impact in practical use, and even if it does a specific motor may be able to handle a significant increase in operating temperature without ill effects, it is the one potential issue that is usually raised in discussions when using speed controls on equipment designed as fixed speed, this extends to the routers they were developed for but again sustained full load on a router for long periods of time is extremely rare.