Table Saw Advice, Right vs Left Tilt

[Paul Richard]

Hey Folks,

It's been a while since I posted, but I lurk fairly often. Some of you may remember me as the guy who got some great advice and turning service for my Jet JJP-12 from John C. After a tiny bit more tuning of the outfeed roller it is working like a champ and I'm very happy with it. Anyway, on to this post...

I have an old 1.5HP Delta contractor saw that has served me very well. I've been saving my pennies for a new cabinet saw and have had my eyes on a new Grizzly, but also snooping around on Craigslist for a used Unisaw. I found an example of the latter (2.5 hours from me though) that I think would be a contender, but wanted some advice from the collective good will of SMC. Here is a link to the saw, I hope to go look at it this weekend ==> http://lancaster.craigslist.org/tls/5886930275.html

My questions are...
1. That saw in the above link; anyone have one? Any thoughts on the price and model? It looks immaculate from the pics, but I've not spoken directly to the seller yet, nor have I seen it in person.

2. My current saw is a right tilt that has never worked all that well (the tilt, not the saw/motor). After hours of puttering I've never been able to get it to cut bevels at 45 degrees, close, but not at 45. I want to be able to do that, but I'm not sure how much I'll actually do it. On shorter stock I've played with a 45 degree bit in my router/table and that does a very nice job. Question is, if I intend to do more 45 degree bevels, should I be looking more for a left tilt saw? I've read the left vs right version of War and Peace the last few days and am wondering if anyone has gone from a right tilt low end contractor saw like mine, to a mid-grade left tilt cabinet saw and found a new religion. Or, if the War and Peace Cliff Notes, stating that it's personal preference, is all I need to know. :-)

Comments? Thoughts?

Thanks all!

- Paul

[Eric Rimel]

That's a nice saw. I'm sure some will say it's too much. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I've never owned any newer Unisaws myself, but I've used quite a few. No complaints. For comparison, I bought a Grizzly 1023 at auction, bought a VSCTools fence, built my front rail assembly, built side tables, welded the leg sets for the side tables, bought a motor cover......I'm easily at $1,000. I was able to do this in smaller bites of cash over time so it worked for me and I'm happy as a clam with my saw. But if I'd had the cash at one time, It would have saved me a heck of a lot of work/time to just drag that saw you linked to home, plug it in and use it.


Right Vs. Left? All marketing as far as I'm concerned. I've had left tilt Powermatics and Sawstops and right tilt Unisaws. I've had both at the same time. I can't think of a single instance where I HAD to have one over the other and there was no way around it. You do have to be aware of which one you have and what your order of operations needs to be when cutting angled pieces, regardless of which you have. I have 4 left tilt saws at work and I have a right tilt in my shop. In almost 10 years I've never had to take material home or to work to make a cut.

if I had to choose? Left.

[Cary Falk]

Asking way too much if you ask me. I had a 1970 Uni that I restored and I sold it and bought a G1023RL. To me a riving knife is more important than right vs left tilt.

[Dan Friedrichs]

So that dust collector that comes with it is worth $200. So he's asking $1550 for the saw.

For less money, you could have a new Grizzly with warranty and riving knife. As Cary said, that's a big deal.

Right tilt also pinches the cut between the blade and the fence. My impression is that most cabinet saws used to be right-tilt, until someone said, "Hey, wouldn't it be way safer if it were left-tilt?", and there was a shift towards that. Perhaps it's just marketing, but...

In any case, I think that Unisaw is worth less than half of the asking price...

[Jim Andrew]

I have a 04 unisaw, left tilt. The 45 was set perfectly when it was delivered, can cut 45 degree rips, and they come out a perfect 90 without gaps. Do use biscuits when I glue up the joints. Helps with alignment.

[Cary Falk]

To answer your second question. I went from a Craftsman bench top, to Delta contractor, to Uni, to the 1023rl. The 1023rl is the only left tilt. The move from the Uni to the grizzly was a lateral move as far as quality of cut and ease of adjustment. That move was mainly for the riving knife although there were some minor annoyances with the Uni. The other upgrades were definitely wow moments. You can make an offset fence to do 45s on a right tilt so that would not be a deal breaker. You can also move the fence to the left of the blade.

[Randall J Cox]

You can always lift up the fence and move it to the other side of the blade and you have opposite tilt (away from the fence) for a specific cut if needed. Thats what I have done on occasion when the cut seemed a little to dangerous with the blade tilted 45 degrees. Randy

[Ken Combs]

I like the rt tilt saw for another reason not often mentioned. Most cuts on a table saw are fence guided with the fence on the rt side of the blade. When changing blades using blades of different thicknesses, a right tilt doesn't change the blade to fence dimension. so, the rip width indicated by the tape on the fence front rail is still accurate, with any width blade.

My most often used blades are a thin kerf rip and really wide full kerf triple chip grind so that is important to me.

45s can be an issue but with a good hold-down (or careful operator practice) to keep the piece firmly against the table and fence it can be safely done.

[David Helm]

I have had both in Cabinet saw configuration. My old Jet cabinet was right tilt and my current Grizzly G1023RLX is left tilt. Both worked well but I think my preference, given that most of my bevel cuts are cross cuts, is left tilt. Both have their pluses and minuses. Get what feels right to you.

[John TenEyck]

I have a right tilt Unisaw and a left tilt Sears. Guess which one I prefer? I have no issues cutting perfect bevels with it. You just make a raised fence like this to run your stock against on the left side, so the blade is tilted away from the stock. It's elevated so the cutoff doesn't get pinched.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KFyXxIz14ZG0DCdVJNNs_odSM675yKeVuKWSNCElE8nHhuledb NZjBEqxKnydptUelHkhMM7QRV5lVn-oAFgf_hnCQlRmtXjn0hn6xW8Abuuq-uruIyo425836AZa8NqzXezpGLCgCgJWhy6AKW_yoz3xykUr5C_ OvD1rq0zu-nLKJGkY2mSqdBb8ve6AnHFdp4jETd7JIwv9lnbaXdhJswB_YQN CXXEYygaRvtf7TPwEOaugHlUDoheWvCghLKt6Slj40X1zbykqB bxFaHquwgJLjVUsEqxjGWtYopV-q0BAkcssF2VW-xyYw7f4lUT5cVSSGEMFImEMX0tN5GNejx8fYBlhYxLfolkL5F5 K5hLVsXGx3T2JOM1uDJkNokqPZlh4sbvA-HK3J7z_gyWQDbLCkOOfyBacMQ0ySwHx20E7i6CQ5wZDv-UmHKFiyhpAJJ8AS1zzgKwfUgYkomt5Yz4e6ZR5YJUrC0BWU74u XOWCYpZUnlz4uuCkQeAqjzXriKFFyhMhK-9grMDmh8z9hTIIRFuHr38N5TWlk7U5mamcxQGNdxVEPBsJCu5j-n7E15zvcWA0E4mWS2bAZ0D7fBr71tMu0QKvxKpMor28bLqgE68 =w640-h480-no

But that's way too much for that saw, as nice as it is outfitted. I don't know if that's one of the Unisaw's where replacement arbors are impossible to get, but if it is .... Anyway, I wouldn't spend more than what a new Grizzly costs for any used cabinet saw. I have less than $500 in my 1954 Unisaw.

John

[Darcy Warner]

My Whitney 77, Greenlee 495, Fortis short stroke and my old T-75's are all right tilt. Had a couple pm66's, don't really care either way the blade tilts.

[Jim Dwight]

I'd get the Grizzly for better safety features. A riving knife and blade guard that go on and off easily are more likely to be used. My saw tilts right and cuts miters fine but I wish it tilted left. I move the fence over but it's a hassle.

[Jim Becker]

My first table saw (not including the crappy jobsite saw that I mistakenly bought "first first"...was a right tilt contractors' style saw. When I upgraded to a cabinet saw, I went left-tilt and it was heaven for so many reasons. My slider is right-tilt, but because the workpiece is most often supported by the wagon rather than a rip fence, that's not an issue. The only time it's cumbersome is when I do need to do a narrow, beveled rip and I often look for other ways to accomplish that if I can.

So in my opinion, if you're buying a "North American" style saw, left tilt is "usually" a better choice for safety.

[Bruce Wrenn]

My first saw (Craftsman) was left tilt, and both my Delta CS and Uni are right tilt. Only time I have ever missed left tilt was making replacement jamb for customers windows. Easy peasy on left tilt, but doable on right tilt. I only done this jamb style twice in the last 20 years

[Guy Belleman]

+1 for new Grizzly with a riving knife. I had 1023rl and now a 0690, and love both.

[Peter Follett]

I have a 70's Unisaw, right tilt, and just move the fence to the left of the blade for bevel cuts. No biggee. I picked mine up for $200 and did nothing more than a tear down and clean up. 3 HP and it runs like a champ. No plans to replace it any time soon. I have been using the MJ splitter for a while now and it really does the job well. I would like to have a riving knife, of course, but the splitter is ok.

[Mike Cutler]

Paul
I have both in the shop,and to be brutally honest I don't see much difference.
My left tilt has a slider to the left of the blade, so the wood could get "pinched" by the blade on a bevel cut, but so far I haven't had any issues. I also don't do enough bevel cuts on a table saw to really be concerned about it.It makes sense that I should install the slider on my right tilt, to the left of the blade, but,,,,,,,

As to the price of the saw?
It's a nice saw. I have no idea what one sold for new, but by the time you add a mobil base, the extended wing, and an upgraded fence, and the cost of shipping for a new saw, to a similar Grizzly, you're probably about even, if not slightly ahead just for the saw. There are plenty of aftermarket riving knife setups available,and any machine shop could make a custom one. The seller doesn't mention blades in the ad, so maybe???????
If the DC hasn't been upgraded and is still a filter bag, you may want to factor the conversion to a canister into the equation, or converting it to a Thein setup.
As far as new machine warranties are concerned? It's never been an issue for me personally. It either works or it doesn't, and in a home garage setup it's likely that it will be out of warranty, before it gets used enough to encounter a problem. Generally I tear every machine down brand new and rebuild them anyway, adding better fasteners, and making sure that everything really is aligned properly.
Don't let parts support hold you back either. There are still plenty of OEM parts available and people routinely "part out" machines and sell the parts on eBay, or Craigslist. Additionally, most new manufactured saws are virtual clones of older units, and parts can at times be direct fit. Bearings usually are the first items to go, and any bearing distributor can find a replacement bearing for virtually any machine.
I guess my bottom line is that if you like that saw, go for it. Offer the seller a couple hundred less in cash and go from there. You'd definitely be up and running quick, and sometimes that can have a value associated with it.

[Chris Kiely]

1 vote for left tilt. I used to make a long post 'wraps' out of 1x material and found I always had better results with the finished side up as with a left tilt vs the tearout on a right tilt and finished side down.

[Jim Becker]

My left tilt has a slider to the left of the blade, so the wood could get "pinched" by the blade on a bevel cut, but so far I haven't had any issues.

True sliding table saws typically are right-tilt because of how the material is handled. Any chance you could switch the sliding setup you have over to your right-tilt saw?

[Mike Cutler]

True sliding table saws typically are right-tilt because of how the material is handled. Any chance you could switch the sliding setup you have over to your right-tilt saw?

Jim

I could switch over easily, and should, not just for the safety aspect.
My shop is only 9' wide, and having that Mast-R-Slide hanging off the left side of the saw get's in the way. When it's not in use, the slide and fence are off the saw and stored on top of the planer. My first table saw feeds onto a Delta shaper and then that feeds onto the second table saw, which is set up for cross cutting. It's a pretty big cast iron island in the middle of a 9'x19' area.
Now that I have had both shoulders and my knee fixed, I've been re-arranging things so that I can work more easily, so the Mast-R-Slide may move.

[scott spencer]

It really boils down to preference. Right tilt bevels toward the fence on a standard bevel cut, which is considered less safe than if it beveled away from the fence. You can move the fence to the left of the blade for safer bevel cuts, but that makes it a non-standard operation, which is still not quite as safe as a bevel cut on a left tilt saw. On Left tilt saws the blade bevels away from the fence with the fence on the right of the blade (standard location), which is considered safer.

The downside of a left tilt saw is that any changes in blade thickness will skew the zero reference on the tape measure because the left side of the blade registers on the right side of the flange (the same direction as the tape measure reads). This can be adjusted by recalibrating the cursor, always using blades of the same thickness, using shims as spacers, or just measuring by hand. Blade thickness changes make no difference with a right tilt saw because the right side of the blade registers against the left side of the flange, so changes in blade thickness don’t impact the tape measure. Here’s another difference that will also be a matter of preference – the arbor nut on a right tilt saw gets applied from the left side of the blade and uses a reverse thread orientation, which is typically done with your left hand. The arbor nut on a left tilt saw goes on from the right side (easy for right handers) and uses a normal thread orientation.

[Paul McGaha]

My Unisaw is a lot like that saw, except no mobile base on mine.

It looks to be in excellent condition.

Personally, I wouldn't pay more than $1,000 for it.

[Bill Bukovec]

I like left tilt. With 48" of table on the right side of the blade, I can miter big sheets if needed.

[Paul Richard]

Hey All,

Thanks for the great information! I had not even considered a riving knife as being a factor. I don't have one now, nor do I have a splitter. I'm very, very attentive when using any of my tools, but we all know it only takes once. Although I really like the machine in the listing, I'm leaning now toward the Griz 1023 because of the safety factors. Plus I've read a bunch of very positive comments on the Griz.

Are there any tricks or tips you folks can share on the issue of having to recalibrate the cursor with blade changes?

Thanks again - this is a GREAT collective resource of very knowledgeable people!

Regards,
Paul

[Cary Falk]

Hey All,


Are there any tricks or tips you folks can share on the issue of having to recalibrate the cursor with blade changes?



Regards,
Paul

Most of my blades are full kerf so i swap them out without issue. If i use a dado or some other blade I just measure. Recalibrating the cursor is no big deal. Rip a board, measure with a caliper. Loosen up the cursoe an move to the appropiate measurement. A couple minutes max.

[Keith Hankins]

Me, I think thats way too muc for that saw. A grand max. Myself I don't like my blade tilting into my fence never have. For that reason all mine tilt away. I'm sure others will prefer it the other way.

[scott spencer]

Hey All,

Thanks for the great information! I had not even considered a riving knife as being a factor. I don't have one now, nor do I have a splitter. I'm very, very attentive when using any of my tools, but we all know it only takes once. Although I really like the machine in the listing, I'm leaning now toward the Griz 1023 because of the safety factors. Plus I've read a bunch of very positive comments on the Griz.

Are there any tricks or tips you folks can share on the issue of having to recalibrate the cursor with blade changes?

Thanks again - this is a GREAT collective resource of very knowledgeable people!

Regards,
Paul

I think the 1023 is a lot of saw for the money. There are a few tricks I've tried for offsetting blade thickness changes - recalibrating the cursor, always using blades of the same thickness, using dado shims as spacers, or just measuring by hand. With a 3 hp saw, there's little need for thin kerf blade, so it's easiest to buy 1/8" full kerf blades, but if you still have some TK blades around, set the cursor for the full kerf blades and add an appropriately sized shim from a dado set against the flange when using the TK blades....worked out great til I replaced most of my blades with the same full kerf width.

If you need more rip capacity from the 1023, you can also very easily slide the front rail farther to the right by one bolt hole. No drilling, but you will want to fill the space between the front and rear rails to support the fence.

BEFORE:
http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/reviews/17041.jpg

AFTER:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Saws/original%201_zpsatdhilia.jpg

[jack duren]

If the saw is in excellent shape, I would buy the saw. Fence in great shape ,etc. Mobile base,dust collector and a power hookup and your set.

You can sit around looking for a perfect deal but it's not going to be easy. We are selling a Powermatic at work for $1700. I know it's in good condition but I would buy that Delta first as it's probably doesn't have near the miles on it. You can always make an offer on the spot.
348786

[Mike Cutler]

Hey All,
Are there any tricks or tips you folks can share on the issue of having to recalibrate the cursor with blade changes?
Regards,
Paul

Paul

I've never found them to very accurate across the scale. Repeatable, but not accurate. There are probably better aftermarket tapes available, but I've not found a need for them. If I set mine dead on for 12", it doesn't mean it's dead on at 24". It's just a silkscreened, plasticized tape.
Mine is set to get me within a 32nd or so and then I have a 6' Starrett machine rule to make my final measurement.
Best way to keep the adjustment repeatable is to always use the same kerf blades.

[Jim Becker]

HI had not even considered a riving knife as being a factor. I don't have one now, nor do I have a splitter. l

Riving knife would always be a priority with me...the fact that it stays on the saw 100% of the time and moves with the blade means it's always there doing it's job, whether the operation is a through cut or something embedded in the workpiece. Splitters work...when they are on the saw, but a "substantial" number of folks never put them back on after they remove them for a non-through cut.

[Art Mann]

Right tilt table saws are getting less and less popular. I don't know of any company that still makes them. That ought to tell you something.

[David Kumm]

The tilt direction is one of the least important things to worry about when looking at a machine. Just don't lose perspective. Dave