Finishing cherry that will live like a vampire?

[Andrew Wayland]

Hello all,

I seem to have made a "fatal" error in my first real hardwood project. I've dabbled in cheap pine before, but now I've moved into big-boy stuff.

Im building a bar in my basement. Being a sucker for cherry, I went ahead and ordered all kinds of cherry plywood and boards. I didn't take into account finishing, and now I'm worried.

I'm looking for that deep reddish brown "cherry red" color. After reading, it seems that only comes with time due to sunlight exposure.

This bar will be located in a dark basement room, without any sunlight to speak of. And being in the northeast: suntanning the cherry is practically out of the question at this point (rain/snow/lack of sun).

I know staining is considered sac religious but I don't see what other choice I have? Can anybody suggest options for me? I don't want to go too crazy finishing this, and the budget won't allow for any fancy spray tools at this point.

[Dimitrios Fradelakis]

A quality gel stain will work best for cherry versus a liquid stain. A few coats of a good polyurethane will help protect the wood without the need to purchase spray equipment to apply it.

[Prashun Patel]

I would just finish it in Waterlox original dealer finish and not bother with dye or stain. Cherry looks great new or old.

[Dennis Peacock]

Andrew,
I clearly understand your budget concerns and your finishing concerns. I would use this on the "new" cherry to help give it that "old" cherry look:
TransTint #6010 RED MAHOGANY - for dark red cherry colors. Great for the "Bombay" dark mahogany look when mixed strong (1 oz. dye to 1 pint solvent).

Then you can clear coat with your finish of choice and be happy with your color. As with any "wood colorant", start lighter than you want and build to the color you do want.

[Sam Murdoch]

I would just finish it in Waterlox original dealer finish and not bother with dye or stain. Cherry looks great new or old.

Agree - and it will darken over time. Additionally staining cherry can be challenging as it can end up blotchy which is way worse (to my mind) than light. Speaking of lights - you can enhance the effect with strategically placed red lighting :D. It is a bar after all.

[Bill McNiel]

I did a cherry Boot Stand for a country club a few years ago that needed to match 20 year old cherry wainscoting. I wanted to age the material and did a fair amount of investigation. Options included taking the pieces to tanning salon, laying them out in the sun, staining or getting UV lights (http://www.solacure.com/ ). The guy at Solcure was very knowledgeable, informative, understanding, articulate but unfortunately I just couldn't make the numbers work for a one time use. Check out the site and give him a call, it can't hurt.

BTW-I highly recommend Charles Neil's Blotch Control before applying any finish on cherry.

[Chris Padilla]

Dense hardwoods like cherry and maple are hard to stain/dye with blotching UNLESS you spray the stain because spraying gives one a lot more control over the amount of applied stain PLUS there isn't any physical contact that a sponge, brush, rag, what-have-you provides. All that does is serve to move the stain around uncontrollably. However, adding a thinned coat of shellac (SealCoat by Zinnser is my favorite easy-to-use shellac) can help with blotching but your mileage may vary.

So with that in mind and your budget, I'd skip the staining and just clear coat it as Prashun suggested. Cherry will still darken over time as sunlight isn't the only thing that darkens it--air/oxygen does as well albeit at a much slower rate than sunlight.

[Andrew Wayland]

Oops. My first post and I already messed up by putting it in the wrong sub forum!

Sounds like users here aren't as opposed to stain as my google searches suggested most are.

I had had considered a gel stain: and it sounds like that may be an option.

I had read elsewhere that BLO is a good choice? But will that allow the color to continue darkening? And how can that be protected?

Another person recommended Spar Varnish: but I wasn't sure how well that would work.

[Bruce Page]

Andrew, welcome to SMC. I wanted the "aged" cherry look on a cradle I made for my daughter's first born. I finished the cherry with a light coat of Seal-Coat & de-natured alcohol, two coats of Bartley’s Pennsylvania Cherry gel stain and 3 coats of Bartley’s wipe-on varnish. I like the way it turned out.
I think finishing something the size of a bar would be challenging but certainly doable. It would be a good idea to do some practice pieces first.

[John TenEyck]

Transtint Brown Mahogany gives cherry a very nice aged look. However, to prevent blotching you really need to spray it on. If you can't spray I suggests either using Charles Neil's Blotch Controller first, or forget about using dye and go to a gel stain as others have recommended.

John

[Stan Calow]

Andrew, unless all the wood is from the same tree, I find it necessary to dye or stain cherry almost always, in order to even out the color differences. If you want the dark color right away, you almost have to.

[Andrew Wayland]

Agree - and it will darken over time. Additionally staining cherry can be challenging as it can end up blotchy which is way worse (to my mind) than light. Speaking of lights - you can enhance the effect with strategically placed red lighting :D. It is a bar after all.

Red Lights may be an option! Hahaha


I did a cherry Boot Stand for a country club a few years ago that needed to match 20 year old cherry wainscoting. I wanted to age the material and did a fair amount of investigation. Options included taking the pieces to tanning salon, laying them out in the sun, staining or getting UV lights (http://www.solacure.com/ ). The guy at Solcure was very knowledgeable, informative, understanding, articulate but unfortunately I just couldn't make the numbers work for a one time use. Check out the site and give him a call, it can't hurt.

BTW-I highly recommend Charles Neil's Blotch Control before applying any finish on cherry.

The UV lights are just a bit overkill.... although I guess I'd have a sterile basement!

The blotch control: is that a homemade concoction? Or is it available someplace? I know I've seen wood conditioners for pre-stain use (general finishes etc).


Andrew, unless all the wood is from the same tree, I find it necessary to dye or stain cherry almost always, in order to even out the color differences. If you want the dark color right away, you almost have to.
Do you have a product/technique that you recommend?

[Stan Calow]

Andrew, I've used transtint red mahogany dye on cherry, and sometimes Behlen's cherry non-grain raising dye (liquid), but I wasn't trying to match an existing piece, or get the dark deep red that people identify as cherry. I have used lye as well, but hesitate to recommend it as an option because its dangerous.

[Jim Becker]

Andrew, unless all the wood is from the same tree, I find it necessary to dye or stain cherry almost always, in order to even out the color differences. If you want the dark color right away, you almost have to.
This is where something I've said many times comes into play...the first step in finishing is when you initially choose your material. It's absolutely true that cherry (and any other species) will vary tree to tree, so I'm always careful when I'm at the "candy store" to take a lot of time to select boards that are relatively consistent in color and grain pattern so that the end result works well. Obviously, having larger, well stocked suppliers helps with that a great deal, especially if they will allow you to examine every potential board carefully and side by side.
-----

OP, it's possible to "instantly age" cherry chemically, but that comes with it's own challenges just like dying the material does. The good news is that UV from sunlight isn't the only thing that causes cherry to darken...simple oxidation is still at work. I typically oil the cherry as a first step which provides a little darkening in itself and that's followed by de-waxed shellac to seal it (and darker shades of shellac can help here, too) before I use a water borne finish for top coating. It still darkens nicely...it just takes a little longer.

[Lee Schierer]

I would just finish it in Waterlox original dealer finish and not bother with dye or stain. Cherry looks great new or old.

I agree, cherry will darken with age anyway. If you want it a bit darker to start use some Watco Clear danish oil and then finish with whatever else you had planned. Try your finish on some scraps before doing the whole project.

[Andrew Wayland]

So let me ask a really stupid question: when I buy furniture made of cherry, and it comes with that nice reddish brown: is that how cherry actually ages? Or do you think they stain it to be that color?

And say I do stain the wood: does the color continue to darken still? Or does the stain keep the color for time

I'm looking to get a jump on this project tomorrow

[Jim Becker]

Production "cherry" isn't always cherry (they use other species to save money) and it's likely been colored regardless to get a nice, even shade of what folks thing cherry looks like. Take a look at what Thos Moser (http://www.thosmoser.com/) offers...that's what real cherry looks like after building and a short time aging. It does get darker over time naturally, regardless of the light.

If you choose to stain/dye, yes...the underlying cherry will still darken over time...

[Bill McNiel]

The blotch control: is that a homemade concoction? Or is it available someplace? I know I've seen wood conditioners for pre-stain use (general finishes etc).


Andrew,
Goggle "Charles Neal Blotch Control". He sells the product online, also has a YouTube video on using it.
Regards - Bill

[John TenEyck]

Cherry isn't really red. Definitely not when it's new and even when it ages it usually has a brownish tint. What you see offered at most furniture stores has been dyed/stained/shot with toner or, as Jim said, isn't even made from cherry. Most people don't know what real cherry looks like and wouldn't want it if they did because the color varies so much.

Take a look at real cherry with a natural finish:

http://vermontwoodsstudios.com/products/cherry-double-pedestal-table#.WD805Fxv7Kg

Or one of my humble pieces, finished with oil and wax, and several years old:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dG5R86-_iXAUi7SWsvBH5jmZNi7ms4xmqf_9ej88EmGOKVE8uY1iVsUgm btvnadwRqveMPtyeHfjBkaCJ3r5oNB83iXzDwuPTj4NwK6tgJF tXfzOO6R8L-qOthBrgcbHhTarBhINyrwcFJu_YFLWG5SxYz0FBqFm7816vsak EJK1AM2WV-Fdq8hweF8BSyb0IQC79eV9JpRsNSWjRYQ5rnaaPXhf-klCNglQSvAWvCLqgc0L1eFHmlZix4nSgzKuGWZoftl3yIVOl-DImu-mxAKrE7JNnvCWiFLI3yApSIO0diic01aFaDXjIp_DL4z3lQKs2 sChyOXq_hGeBsFpDqXCTgFMUiTdoc1lrVKrQma28VAP8_vevcY tJMaADioYg-NtcZlYkg7CHWCrWvyi8qrBzJIo4v-CaruqaYRX13Cn8GvGrXA2EI0DuK3BeRSvraIgym9cPMVR8Bjlw eO7H7Y_m7G4O3kCDQxv6-7-6nh8ZG2M1Er_AIRqbUBwyt__vP-gDhdVaoMSN52WEjNiYT7xwrC_Jx0RjlGRzw8tZiXkGGI_hJ_QG FGldeApuwJQ23NYpXB9SzpyZP3VgB-YSddXRYADlzIvgMbstGO5ALUqdMsceQ=w471-h628-no

and another one, again finished with oil and wax, which was more than 10 years old when I took this picture:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dkc8X_20noT2UtHDxTUHrzUjf7PjSvGjkWJ-_xJyJLt4RqfRDb5rXjZ0Yhu44vc1KYQg9FBd1Ey5_JRhz0MtHH D-zCOYovX7d2sfefm-CyPZkMwhDwsWprkGZSOjUIB96bHb8G1YWCFqIvqFeNtW-AXMmFSSVvkDI4CxLYaQjkbL4r5-kouxGpGscSumISJ1YZu__pbSRB2KDrbsRW-GuyIpxSASrVe22jXSwfT6vnatnURa-4_qncdWWlinWkOAuW4zAzvbj3Zg_f4z4HkI5-aQJym7HZsglCs7r0p_OGK7sUNNEORNH61e8SBs3N_REk97GHhM KE4a_WOMlUxGHnbBypFvBawtSJwOwnki0-TLQ5F2R9N2AiGFhjgTy9UXcsO_NJNtxNxSljL5vaNCr3Fy_Ilh hMCGVGzrQ-N58diYzIbq1SWEFtfRyuar4j6T5h_XrVIJLUWDhXJAXRCyhvZf dfeQutqKEcK3c4gZVlpPby-Jjd4CzINvccI4wfoE9QOQ3iaNE8uqCAqSwz4KQQrufs_4vNQ6f g_qRWG9MtQppa5jIb-TbEIkcyVTiEhXEWuNLGI5YiXsdRD6pmhg-yxvjtEysi-FI7Y1F6OaLXwmXH_Pjw=w471-h628-no



John

[Andrew Wayland]

Do you recall what oil and wax you used? That's the color I want!

[John TenEyck]

Do you recall what oil and wax you used? That's the color I want!

I used a couple of applications of Watco Danish Oil and Johnson's paste wax a few days later. I've never waxed them again. Keep in mind that these photos were taken several years after the pieces were finished. They weren't this dark when first finished. In fact, I remember finding a light spot under something I had left on the little table for several months.

John

[Dan Hulbert]

10 or 15 years ago I built a sewing center for my wife our of a mix of solid and veneered cherry plywood. I followed a finishing schedule from a Jeff Jewett book. Unfortunately, I loaned out the book and have never seen it again. The finish process actually started with a TransTint yellow dye. The several coats of other stuff that fails my memory but top coated with amber shellac. It was one of the most complicated finishing schedules I've ever used, but the results were great. The cabinet had that great aged cherry look right from the start. It still looks great after living in no sun environments for all these years.
I think the yellow dye to start things off really helped to even out the color variations.

[Stan Calow]

Here's my version of the apparently the same table in cherry. Its about 10 years old. A couple of coats of BLO, then four coats of Waterlox OSF, wiped on. As you can see the top and sides/legs don't match in color, so if doing it again I would dye/stain just a bit.
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[Dave Haughs]

A quality gel stain will work best for cherry versus a liquid stain. A few coats of a good polyurethane will help protect the wood without the need to purchase spray equipment to apply it.


Agree - and it will darken over time. Additionally staining cherry can be challenging as it can end up blotchy which is way worse (to my mind) than light.


Dense hardwoods like cherry and maple are hard to stain/dye with blotching UNLESS you spray the stain because spraying gives one a lot more control over the amount of applied stain PLUS there isn't any physical contact that a sponge, brush, rag, what-have-you provides.

I've had VERY good luck with gel stains and cherry. I've never had an issue with blotching and gel stains on cherry. The last cherry piece I did, i used General Finishes gel stain. Brushed it on with a foam brush and wiped it off with a shop towel. Practice on scraps.

As others have said though, it WILL darken over time even once it's stained and sealed.

[Andrew Wayland]

I've tried a few samples so far. BLO looks good, albeit a bit light. I just tried some General finishes Gel stains too: Georgian Cherry (looks to have a purple hue) Candelite (not terrible) and Brown Mahogany (still drying). I'm not thrilled by any of them in particular.

Id be tempted to try and mix some colors, but I'd have to make one large batch to keep, which may be a bit too daunting.

[Prashun Patel]

Coming out of my corner here: Don't do it.

What are you using for your topcoat? If it were me, I'd use Waterlox Original Sealer Finish and be done. It's a tad darker than other top coats, but not as dark as staining. The two times I stained cherry, I regretted it.

[Andrew Wayland]

Coming out of my corner here: Don't do it.

What are you using for your topcoat? If it were me, I'd use Waterlox Original Sealer Finish and be done. It's a tad darker than other top coats, but not as dark as staining. The two times I stained cherry, I regretted it.

Waterlox is an expensive gamble: I think it's $35 to purchase.... which is a bitnmore than I'd like to spend for a sample. Do you have any pictures of your results?

also; I have several different sources of cherry: so I'd hate to have a ton of different colors showing...

[Sam Murdoch]

Here is a cherry bench with Waterlox Original Sealer Finish on it. This was about a week old at the time of the photo. It has certainly darkened since then but only in value. The color is the color - not anywhere near as red as what non woodworkers think of as cherry. I love it ! :)

[Andrew Wayland]

That's not a bad color. Think It'd be darker if put on top of BLO (if you can even do that)?

[John TenEyck]

BLO on cherry leads to blotching, at least it did on this comparative set of samples:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/liBw3iYerfSXgsJ1EGEAjCkacedyQkTX8u5arGkfZETFctb4bI umwvh3z13Bg3vTraCBajipYlY_tFzkvKQSYD0hJdxET4Gf7FVB A4sTBW3E1ovLSydY31oJyxAf8cBuhd2hm78Cw2mQDw4NOg6h--MMMloYLml0kInaZkgiJo7tJ9SedwvC3vE4xNUsaIyPqcEzHEYB qhNQk7BbHo-7P03k_NC12PvK8BXBNFN2jx1xTWdR_5l79QAKOx40rAkPhqMup PV1mJHCx9Hu9PwniH2gTgzinB35X5v5IqkyS0Hezok6ofRp_5t hB9Lv20lKPMVv9ejNOz_F-8wJLvv_KJTYI1ejMZ4y4wKn1KiLmTsu2eK95vWkX23LBhqBY4H pjBFmnG5jT7uYdZwZp7svevp0jldyDvN8rnbv-VvzvZChxATv5bGGQnWnQ0AHZtIPlfAQWgCRNsxEj6J7cC_iAEe f7PaWGxcXGYGykNbPC5tvUJMn0CLw-NYiM5Me8tyjxFoDTdyr7oIxnwwxUnbVbfrc7SccmHAUc-cJVmLn5p49rFx3_LtH763SahoW0MUGT6J2HpGijqj_oy63xTl4 ZbS00Sy7VhhYJqFhaexDwpNdQHmEKfH_=w838-h628-no

Arm-R-Seal gloss on the left, the middle is Sealcoat shellac then ARS, and the right is BLO then ARS. To me, the BLO one looks bad.

John

[Andrew Wayland]

BLO on cherry leads to blotching, at least it did on this comparative set of samples:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/liBw3iYerfSXgsJ1EGEAjCkacedyQkTX8u5arGkfZETFctb4bI umwvh3z13Bg3vTraCBajipYlY_tFzkvKQSYD0hJdxET4Gf7FVB A4sTBW3E1ovLSydY31oJyxAf8cBuhd2hm78Cw2mQDw4NOg6h--MMMloYLml0kInaZkgiJo7tJ9SedwvC3vE4xNUsaIyPqcEzHEYB qhNQk7BbHo-7P03k_NC12PvK8BXBNFN2jx1xTWdR_5l79QAKOx40rAkPhqMup PV1mJHCx9Hu9PwniH2gTgzinB35X5v5IqkyS0Hezok6ofRp_5t hB9Lv20lKPMVv9ejNOz_F-8wJLvv_KJTYI1ejMZ4y4wKn1KiLmTsu2eK95vWkX23LBhqBY4H pjBFmnG5jT7uYdZwZp7svevp0jldyDvN8rnbv-VvzvZChxATv5bGGQnWnQ0AHZtIPlfAQWgCRNsxEj6J7cC_iAEe f7PaWGxcXGYGykNbPC5tvUJMn0CLw-NYiM5Me8tyjxFoDTdyr7oIxnwwxUnbVbfrc7SccmHAUc-cJVmLn5p49rFx3_LtH763SahoW0MUGT6J2HpGijqj_oy63xTl4 ZbS00Sy7VhhYJqFhaexDwpNdQHmEKfH_=w838-h628-no

Arm-R-Seal gloss on the left, the middle is Sealcoat shellac then ARS, and the right is BLO then ARS. To me, the BLO one looks bad.

John

Is it just me, or is the ARS quite blotchy too?

im starting to wonder if it's time to cut my losses and go with Mahogany the rest of the way? Or does that have similar finishing issues?

[Jim Becker]

BLO on cherry leads to blotching, at least it did on this comparative set of samples:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/liBw3iYerfSXgsJ1EGEAjCkacedyQkTX8u5arGkfZETFctb4bI umwvh3z13Bg3vTraCBajipYlY_tFzkvKQSYD0hJdxET4Gf7FVB A4sTBW3E1ovLSydY31oJyxAf8cBuhd2hm78Cw2mQDw4NOg6h--MMMloYLml0kInaZkgiJo7tJ9SedwvC3vE4xNUsaIyPqcEzHEYB qhNQk7BbHo-7P03k_NC12PvK8BXBNFN2jx1xTWdR_5l79QAKOx40rAkPhqMup PV1mJHCx9Hu9PwniH2gTgzinB35X5v5IqkyS0Hezok6ofRp_5t hB9Lv20lKPMVv9ejNOz_F-8wJLvv_KJTYI1ejMZ4y4wKn1KiLmTsu2eK95vWkX23LBhqBY4H pjBFmnG5jT7uYdZwZp7svevp0jldyDvN8rnbv-VvzvZChxATv5bGGQnWnQ0AHZtIPlfAQWgCRNsxEj6J7cC_iAEe f7PaWGxcXGYGykNbPC5tvUJMn0CLw-NYiM5Me8tyjxFoDTdyr7oIxnwwxUnbVbfrc7SccmHAUc-cJVmLn5p49rFx3_LtH763SahoW0MUGT6J2HpGijqj_oy63xTl4 ZbS00Sy7VhhYJqFhaexDwpNdQHmEKfH_=w838-h628-no

Arm-R-Seal gloss on the left, the middle is Sealcoat shellac then ARS, and the right is BLO then ARS. To me, the BLO one looks bad.

John

And for me...like happen to like the BLO version the best. :) Very subjective. :D

[Andrew Wayland]

I've read a little more: and one avenue I may try is lye.

it seems to offer lots of benefits: natural cherry look... no blotches.... inexpensive.

Anybody have any input?

[Sam Murdoch]

I have finished quite a few cherry pieces with foam oven cleaner. The resulting color is more brown than red. You will find it very challenging to finish all parts to an equal color. The length of time and the specific board effect the color. Andrew - if I may - you sound too particular to be happy with the results of the lye coloring. As you suggested earlier - maybe cherry is the wrong species for your project.

[Andrew Wayland]

I have finished quite a few cherry pieces with foam oven cleaner. The resulting color is more brown than red. You will find it very challenging to finish all parts to an equal color. The length of time and the specific board effect the color. Andrew - if I may - you sound too particular to be happy with the results of the lye coloring. As you suggested earlier - maybe cherry is the wrong species for your project.
I appreciate your honesty!

Do you feel the extra chemicals in the oven cleaner had any effect on that color? I suppose I could also try the Lye and if not happy, I could try and stain after the fact...

[Sam Murdoch]

I appreciate your honesty!

Do you feel the extra chemicals in the oven cleaner had any effect on that color? I suppose I could also try the Lye and if not happy, I could try and stain after the fact...

I couldn't know. I do like the effect so I did not consider the subtleties.

Here is a cherry cabinet with the oven cleaner treatment top coated with Watco oil. The drawer fronts are Carpathian Elm burl veneer not treated. Otherwise the cabinet is all cherry. At the client request I did some distressing and some charring too but the overall color is the brown oven cleaner cherry. You can see some blotchiness but I did not consider that a distraction. "It's the beauty of the wood." :)

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[Andrew Wayland]

I couldn't know. I do like the effect so I did not consider the subtleties.

Here is a cherry cabinet with the oven cleaner treatment top coated with Watco oil. The drawer fronts are Carpathian Elm burl veneer not treated. Otherwise the cabinet is all cherry. At the client request I did some distressing and some charring too but the overall color is the brown oven cleaner cherry. You can see some blotchiness but I did not consider that a distraction. "It's the beauty of the wood." :)

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I actually like it. I'm going for an "old English pub" feel, but with a little more class. I enjoyed the color of our "cherry" furniture which is why I started with cherry before I started researching.

That piece is very nice: and I love the idea that the wood is "natural" in you simply age it without adding stains.

Would you care care to share the steps you took? I'm going to try a lye concoction on some samples today, but I'm curious if the oven cleaner would be easier? I'm most interested in what you used (if anything) to neutralize the oven cleaner, and how long you left it on to work.

[Sam Murdoch]

You are exactly right. Aged cherry without the need to stain. Still, in my experience, cherry that has been finished with oil or varnish does not develop this "brown" but more to the amber/red a likely result of the finish aging along with the cherry. I have another small table in my living room that was finished the same way.

As for my process: (As I recall) :rolleyes:

• Spray foam Easy Off.

• I did multiple test runs to watch the time as the dark effect developed.

• Once I decided on 3 or 4 or 8 minutes I applied the foam liberally and spread evenly with a foam brush.

• After the time was up I wiped off with old t-shirts. You can watch the color develop and as I noted earlier some boards respond differently or at different rates. You just need to pay attention and wipe off accordingly. You can always recoat and wipe off until you see what you prefer.

• Rinse off was with a vinegar water solution. I think more vinegar than water but worth the google to be sure.

• After all was thoroughly dry I sanded as needed and finished with several coats of WATCO. Any oil or varnish finish would do. Waterlox is exceptionally durable as a bar finish. I have now started to use MONOCOAT rather than Waterlox and I am very very happy with how that looks and feels THOUGH I can not say if it develops a more durable finish than Waterlox. I have not tested. Still, MonoCoat was developed as a one coat floor finish - seems very tough. It is now my favorite oil finish - VERY EXPENSIVE - but I have experimented with using it OVER Watco with great results. That's for another thread.

I decided without trying straight lye that the Easy Off was a more safe product. Of course - gloves and eye protection and a long sleeve shirt and maybe a rubber shop apron, are essentials in any case. I have not RECENTLY studied the ingredients of oven cleaners so can't say with any certainty that Easy Off is the current go-to product for this purpose. Others might know more than I. Has been at least a decade since I did this last.

[Andrew Wayland]

Let's see if I can post photos (let me know if you don't see them...)

I did a little trial run this afternoon with some of the scrap cherry ply I used. I'll admit, I didn't do any prep at all, so results may vary:

Here's the before (you can see the Board labeled Lye is quite dirty on one end)

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Here's the after: the middle is the Board labeled Lye from above. The left is another board from the same piece of ply that I quickly sanded with 220. The Right board is a piece I quickly hit with Danish oil.

I did this all at 2pm today, applied my Lye solution, and let air dry in my garage. Nothing more. I took this photo at 4:30pm today.
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The middle is exactly what I'm looking for... so I may try a few more samples. I'm intrigued as to why the left came out so brown, when it's really from the same cut!

[Sam Murdoch]

I'll admit, I didn't do any prep at all, so results may vary:



I think you know the answer :). Try doing the lighter piece again. I do think it's a good idea to prep to - ready to receive finish - knowing that after the treatment you will need to sand again. At the least you want every thing to the same level of prep.

[Andrew Wayland]

I'm repeating the experiment today, this time with 100% lye crystals (I thought I had 100% lye, but it had some other ingredients for drain cleaning). I figured using 100% lye will take out some variables that other chemicals add.


Im still letting it air dry after applying with a rag. I did try adding a vinegar solution 5 minutes in to one piece just to see if it stops the reaction? (I'm curious if "open time" on the wood has any effect on how dark it becomes).

Its also very cold today (30*F).... so I'm curious how that will affect the reaction too.

Finally I'm curious if the Lye solution will have any effect on the plywood?

I'm hoping this works well. The idea of not staining and letting the wood speak for itself is really becoming attractive to me.

[Stan Calow]

Andrew, I've used lye (drain cleaner) on cherry three times, mahogany twice. I like the color, but there is a challenge in laying down the solution quickly and evenly so as not to show lap marks. So use a big enough test piece that you practice the technique as well as the color. For me, I thought the reaction was instantaneous, so that contact time was not a factor, concentration was. But practice till you feel comfortable. Please be careful that stuff is nasty.

[Andrew Wayland]

Andrew, I've used lye (drain cleaner) on cherry three times, mahogany twice. I like the color, but there is a challenge in laying down the solution quickly and evenly so as not to show lap marks. So use a big enough test piece that you practice the technique as well as the color. For me, I thought the reaction was instantaneous, so that contact time was not a factor, concentration was. But practice till you feel comfortable. Please be careful that stuff is nasty.

Interesting. How did you apply it? Nylon brush? I've honestly been applying it pretty heavy so it can absorb evenly.

At what point, if any, did you neutralize the Lye solution?

[Stan Calow]

Andrew, I wiped it on with a rag, and did not leave on for more than a few minutes. I was concerned about the impact of the water on raising grain, so wiped off quickly, a water rinse, then weak vinegar, and another water rinse. I am hoping you'll get more experienced "lyers" to share with you.

[Andrew Wayland]

I played around today with a larger piece of cherry ply: it certainly didn't look as great as I had hoped! It was very blotchy.

Ill have to to try again tomorrow with a brush to see how that does. I'm also considering a pressure garden sprayer to get it on evenly, but that could be a bit hairy with overspray and fine mist (I do have a respirator, but still...)

[Andrew Wayland]

I found my best results were with a nylon paint brush (for those following).
I may try one more application to see if I can darken a few pieces any more.

I'm also on the fence about neutralizing the wood? So far I've just applied the solution and allowed it to air dry. I plan on covering it with Arm R Seal for protection, but I'm wondering if it's work adding a vinegar solution beforehand.... any thoughts?

[Sam Murdoch]

As I understand it - if you don't neutralize the lye will keep on working. :eek: Like trying to apply a finish to a slow moving avalanche and expect no changes to the color of the snow cap over time. Why risk all this effort to avoid one more step?