fixing broken Stanley frog adjusting screw

[Skip Helms]

Hi All,

I have a Stanley 4 1/2 Type 15 bench plane with a broken frog screw. I got it that way maybe 25 years ago and didn't think much of it at the time. Somewhere I got a wild hair to fix it more because I feel like it than because it would make a difference (I tend to set them and leave them). The plane is a nice, clean user and not worth much. That screw probably broke because it was frozen and someone used too much torque so I'm expecting a fight. My first thought was to punch a center mark, drill through it with an aircraft bit so I can dribble liquid wrench into both ends of the threads and use an easy out. Retapping the hole isn't appealing -- I'd get a new body first.

The best option is to ignore it for another 25 years but if someone has a better idea for removing the original screw, I'd love to read your thoughts. Thanks, Skip

[Jim Koepke]

The hard part is getting a bit into the screw. This is if it is the frog adjusting screw. If it is in the frog, then that isn't too bad.

My favorite helper in this situation is left hand drill bits. Especially if you have a reversible motor on a drill press. (Most AC motors have a couple of connectors that when a jumper wire is installed will make the motor direction reverse.) Often the heat and friction of the drill bit will back the broken screw out.

Left hand bits can be found at better well stocked hardware stores and tool supply houses. The can also be ordered on line, McMaster has them if my memory is working.

If it were mine, it would be left the way it is. My frogs usually do not need to be moved.

jtk

[Skip Helms]

Thanks Jim, I do have a reversible drill-press (1) but I think the leave-it-alone idea is still winning the internal discussion. At least half of my bench planes are either Types 9s and earlier or Sargents so adjustable frogs aren't mandatory -- heck, I have to physically look at each one to remember which way the depth knob turns. Cheers, Skip

PS McMaster Carr is a guilty pleasure.

(1) painstakingly assembled through help here at SMC. Came out great in the end.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?240868-Essential-VFD-controls-for-drill-press/page2

[Bill Houghton]

For the planes on which you do have working frog adjusting screws, how often do you use that feature?

Sometimes, when it's broke, it's better to leave it alone than to break something more important in the process of fixing whatever "it" is.

[John K Jordan]

The best option is to ignore it for another 25 years but if someone has a better idea for removing the original screw, I'd love to read your thoughts. Thanks, Skip

Are the parts such that you can apply heat? If there is enough of the screw to grip with something I've removed many with heat from a lowly propane torch. I usually try soaking in PB Blaster for a day or so, occasionally "shocking" the parts with a sharp impact. If that doesn't work, I go for the heat. (Called a "fire wrench" by the vehicle mechanic set - ain't much an oxy-acetylene torch can't persuade)

If there is nothing to grab, nevermind!

JKJ

[Tom Vanzant]

Skip, it's an adjusting screw, but most often used to assure the frog returns to the same place after removal for cleaning or whatever. Prior to about 1907, there was no frog adjustment screw. Question: how often do you actually move or remove the frog?

[Skip Helms]

I wouldn't fix it because I need it. I'd fix it because I like fixing things.

The screw is broken off flush with the frog base in the main body so superheating it would stress the flatness of the sole and I still wouldn't have anything to grab. If I do this, I'll need to rig a sled for the drill press and chuck an aircraft bit -- something close to the inside diameter of the hole -- and then pick the threads out. An easy-out would probably snap just like the original screw head did. In my head I'm thinking the screw is something like 5 inches from the end of the body so there is very little room to work.

Thanks for your ideas and I'll report back if I ever get motivated. sh

[don wilwol]

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/saving-a-stanley-type-2-risk-equals-reward/

[Bill McNiel]

I wouldn't fix it because I need it. I'd fix it because I like fixing things.

Wish you lived closer to me Skip, I have a plethora of stuff that needs fixing.
regards - Bill

[Skip Helms]

I did it.

I couldn't get everybody hot and bothered and let it slide so I went into the shop and did pretty much what I thought. First I punched a not-quite centered dent in the back of the screw. Then I chucked an aircraft bit in the drill press on a slow setting and drilled almost through it. I heated it with a torch to loosen the screw, seated an easy-out in the hole and it absolutely wouldn't budge. So, I reamed it with an even bigger aircraft bit, chopped in on maybe 3/4 mm of the screw proud of the surface to destroy the remnants of the threads with a sharpened prick-punch and a pair of hemostats. That took a few minutes and I was lucky I had something to work with.

Once I had enough threads clean to seat the screw from another plane, turning that drove the other chunks into the cavity. The threaded portion of the hole is only about 5/16" deep and then it opens up in the housing. Most of the old screw is still in that cavity. I cleaned up the swarf, dried it off and put it back on the shelf pending a new screw from Ebay.

Thanks again and best wishes on your projects and for the holidays. sh

Cheers, sh

[michael langman]

Skip, I have spent years removing broken bolts and one of the first things to try, is to take a small hardened center punch, and grind the end of it into a sharp chisel pointed shape. The angles on the end of the punch should be steeper then a chisel though.

Put the frog into a secure vise and then take a 12oz ball pein hammer and drive the chisel punch into the top of the broken screw in a counter clockwise direction. Get the chisel to bite into the broken screw and try to reverse the bolt out.

Using Kroil penetrating oil for 24 hours before trying this helps a lot.

[Jim Koepke]

one of the first things to try, is to take a small hardened center punch, and grind the end of it into a sharp chisel pointed shape. The angles on the end of the punch should be steeper then a chisel though.


George Wilson once posted about making a center punch with a pyramid point. The stock on my center punches is six sided so it was easy to grind the three sided pyramid shape on the tip. This, as George said, helps to center the drill bit.

I have also used a method similar to what Michael posted. Especially with big nuts stuck on a bolt. Use a chisel like an impact driver to make the stuck bolt/nut spin.

jtk

[george wilson]

Exactly,Jim. I don';t really know why this little dodge works,but it does,and is a good trick to remember,which you have. It is a trick that old time machinists used to know,but which ,like many other little quirks,has been forgotten. Now,machinists rely upon sophisticated and expensive solutions to problems that used to be solved with a bit of handed down wisdom.

I love to get these types of tricks,and use to know some(and in particular one) machinist who I learned some valuable knowledge from.

[Bill Houghton]

Wish you lived closer to me Skip, I have a plethora of stuff that needs fixing.
regards - Bill
Skip, I can do even better! We have a nice little guest cottage behind the house, and we're in major tourist country:
wineries
the ocean
Some of the best of California's famous, twisty Highway 1
a short (one hour) drive to San Francisco
for movie fans, the towns in which much of the filming of "The Birds" was done (many of the buildings are still standing)
Plenty of nice, affordable restaurants

I'll start updating my fixit list.